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Editorial
See other Editorial Articles

Title: Plead guilty to avoid sinning?
Source: .
URL Source: http://.
Published: Oct 6, 2010
Author: .
Post Date: 2010-10-06 15:46:26 by Artisan
Keywords: None
Views: 227
Comments: 8

my neice recently got a nearly $150 dollar ticket for 'not wearing her seat belt'. she had been concerned about coming up with that money-being a student working part time that's not easy. i told her dont pay them jack shít! so she got several months of extensions & we scheduled an initial arraignment in december. by the time the trial (by mail) comes around next year the revenue pig wont even remember who she is. her boyfriend then got a ticket, & i asked her if he wants to fight it. i'd spoken to him about such things before. he s a good guy, knows a bit about corrupt government, 9/11, etc. but then my neice tells me that he just paid it, because he was speeding, & he did not want to 'lie', which would be a sin. Wow! and i thought i was scrupulous? he is a religious man with good morals. but come on. pleading not guilty in court is not lying, its holding this corrupt govt accountable & making them prove their case. the fines are obscene anyway. what would you tell such a person?

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#1. To: Artisan (#0)

I would ask him if he actually hurt anyone or did any property damage. If the answer is no then he did not commit any crime. And it is no sin to say not guilty to an unjust law. Ask if he believes the speed he was driving was excessive for the traffic and road conditions. If he doesn't think so and never hurt anyone or did any property damage then the state has no case.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-10-06   15:52:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: James Deffenbach (#1)

very good points & very interesting because one of californias statutes is 'basic speed law', which states that the motorist must have been endangering persons & property to violate the law. merely exceeding the 'limit' does not violate it. appeals courts have upheld this. so your idea is right on. its a shame most people dont even read the actual statute they are accused of violating.

"if I have all faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing." 1 Cor 12:31—13:13
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html

Artisan  posted on  2010-10-06   16:11:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Artisan (#2)

Glad to be of help when I can. One mistake a lot of people make is when the cop asks them, "Do you know how fast you were going?" And they say "no." Wrong answer. If you say that he is at liberty to give you the shaft royally and probably will. A better answer would be to say something like "My speed seemed reasonable under the existing road, weather and traffic conditions." Shows you are aware of conditions and that your state of mind is such that you don't believe you have done anything wrong.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-10-06   19:01:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Artisan (#0)

what would you tell such a person?

I would tell him to plea no contest to a lesser fine. Never pay full price when you can simply show up and get a reduction.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-10-06   19:11:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: abraxas, Artisan (#4)

This relates to DUI but I imagine would be equally applicable in a speeding case.

Guilty vs. No-contest pleas--What is the difference between a "Guilty" plea and a "No Contest" plea in a drunk driving case?

"...for all intents and purposes, in most states they (pleas of guilty and no contest or nolo contendre) are the same. A no contest plea says that although you don't admit that you are guilty, you agree that the evidence looks pretty bad and that a reasonable finder of fact would find you guilty of DUI if given a chance.

If they are the same, who doesn't everybody plead "no contest?"

Many DUI prosecutors will not allow a plea of "no contest" if there is a plea bargain on the table. In other words, if you want to take advantage of a deal that reduces or dismisses some of the charges, you may be asked to accept it in exchange for a plea of "guilty."

Good DUI defense lawyers know that since there is limited difference in practical terms, a plea of guilty sometimes looks better to a judge who will then have to pass sentence.

One thing that judges look for as a mitigating factor (a reason to go easier on you at sentencing) is that you have accepted responsibility for your decision. If you are only willing to plead no contest, some judges view this as your attempt to dodge responsibility in court. They may take it out on you at sentencing.

If I plead "no contest" do I have to say that I've been convicted on a job application?

It depends on how the question is worded, but typically if the question is "have you been convicted of a crime?" then you will have to answer yes because a no contest plea to DUI results in a conviction on your record in most states.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-10-06   19:43:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: James Deffenbach (#5)

In speeding cases, I go with no contest simply to get into the room to bargain down my fine. : )

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-10-06   21:03:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: abraxas (#6)

Well, the fine is one thing but the insurance is another. Do they not go up on your insurance when you get speeding tickets? They do on everyone I ever heard of. Usually the fine, however much it is, is the smallest part of the price you pay for what are euphemistically called "moving violations." The racket they call insurance will probably get a bigger chunk of your money than the state will.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.
Lord Acton

He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic.
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace

James Deffenbach  posted on  2010-10-06   21:17:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: James Deffenbach (#7)

Do they not go up on your insurance when you get speeding tickets?

It's based on demerits, so I bargain to reduce the demerits, taking a lesser charge and reduced fine. We get, I think, 2 demerits per year without increasing the insurance costs. It's an extra demerit for every bump up over the limit.

It's all a racket. I used to just pay, but now I always bargain.

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations

abraxas  posted on  2010-10-06   21:44:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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