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Title: The Coming Middle-Class Anarchy (Strong Language)
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URL Source: http://gonzalolira.blogspot.com/201 ... ming-middle-class-anarchy.html
Published: Oct 7, 2010
Author: Gonzalo Lira
Post Date: 2010-10-07 18:28:03 by Horse
Keywords: None
Views: 447
Comments: 27
True story: A retired couple I know, Brian and Ilsa, own a home in the Southwest. It’s a pretty house, right on the manicured golf course of their gated community (they’re crazy about golf). The only problem is, they bought the house near the top of the market in 2005, and now find themselves underwater. They’ve never missed a mortgage payment—Brian and Ilsa are the kind upright, not to say uptight 60-ish white semi-upper-middle-class couple who follow every rule, fill out every form, comply with every norm. In short, they are the backbone of America. Even after the Global Financial Crisis had seriously hurt their retirement nest egg—and therefore their monthly income—and even fully aware that they would probably not live to see their house regain the value it has lost since they bought it, they kept up the mortgage payments. The idea of them strategically defaulting is as absurd as them sprouting wings. When HAMP—the Home Affordable Modification Program—was unveiled, they applied, because they qualified: Every single one of the conditions applied to them, so there was no question that they would be approved—at least in theory. Applying for HAMP was quite a struggle: Go here, go there, talk to this person, that person, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. “It’s like they didn’t want us to qualify,” Ilsa told me, as she recounted their mind-numbing travails. It was a months-long struggle—but finally, they were approved for HAMP: Their mortgage period was extended, and the interest rate was lowered. Even though their home was still underwater, and even though they still owed the same principal to their bank, Brian and Ilsa were very happy: Their mortgage payments had gone down by 40%. This was equivalent to about 15% of their retirement income. So of course they were happy. However, three months later, out of the blue, they got a letter from their bank, Wells Fargo: It said that, after further review, Brian and Ilsa had in fact not qualified for HAMP. Therefore, their mortgage would go back to the old rate. Not only that, they now owed the difference for the three months when they had paid the lowered mortgage—and to add insult to injury, they were assessed a “penalty for non-payment”. Brian and Ilsa were furious—a fury which soon turned to dour depression: They tried contacting Wells Fargo, to straighten this out. Of course, they were given the run-around once again. They kept insisting that they qualified—they qualified! But of course, that didn’t help at all—like a football, they were punted around the inner working of the Mortgage Mess, with no answers and no accountability. Finally, exhausted, Brian and Ilsa sat down, looked at the last letter—which had no signature, and no contact name or number—and wondered what to do. On television, the news was talking about “robo-signatures” and “foreclosure mills”, and rank illegalities—illegalities which it seemed everyone was getting away with. To top it off, foreclosures have been suspended by the largest of the banks for 90 days—which to Brian and Ilsa meant that people who weren’t paying their mortgages got to live rent free for another quarter, while they were being squeezed out of a stimulus program that had been designed—tailor made—precisely for them. Brian and Ilsa are salt-of-the-earth people: They put four kids through college, they always paid their taxes. The last time Brian broke the law was in 1998: An illegal U-turn on a suburban street. “We’ve done everything right, we’ve always paid on time, and this program is supposed to help us,” said Brian. “We follow the rules—but people who bought homes they couldn’t afford get to squat in those McMansions rent free. It would have been smarter if we’d been crooks.” Now, up to this point, this is just another sob story of the Mortgage Mess—and as sob stories go, up to this point, it’s no big deal. But here’s where the story gets ominous—here’s where the Jaws soundtrack kicks in: Brian and Ilsa—the nice upper-middle-class retired couple, who always follow the rules, and never ever break the law—who don’t even cheat on their golf scores—even when they’re playing alone (“Because if you cheat at golf, you’re only cheating yourself”)—have decided to give their bank the middle finger. They have essentially said, Fuckit. They haven’t defaulted—not yet. They’re paying the lower mortgage rate. That they’re making payments is because of Brian: He is insisting that they pay something—Ilsa is of the opinion that they should forget about paying the mortgage at all. “We follow the rules, and look where that’s gotten us?” she says, furious and depressed. “Nowhere. They run us around, like lab rats in a cage. This HAMP business was supposed to help us. I bet the bank went along with the program for three months, so that they could tell the government that they had complied—and when the government got off their backs, they turned around and raised the mortgage back up again!” “And charged us a penalty,” Brian chimes in. The non-payment penalty was only $84—but it might as well been $84 million, for all the outrage they feel. “A penalty for non-payment!” Nevertheless, Brian is insisting that they continue paying the mortgage—albeit the lower monthly payment—because he’s still under the atavistic sway of his law-abiding-ness. But Ilsa is quietly, constantly insisting that they stop paying the mortgage altogether: “Everybody else is doing it—so why shouldn’t we?” A terrible sentence, when a law-abiding citizen speaks it: Everybody else is doing it—so why don’t we? I’m like Wayne Gretsky: I don’t concern myself with where the puck has been—I look for where the puck is going to be. Right now, people are having a little hissy-fit over the robo-signing scandal, and the double-booking scandal (where the same mortgage was signed over to two different bonds), and the little fights between junior tranches and senior tranches and the servicer, in the MBS mess. But none of that shit is important. What’s really important is Brian and Ilsa: What’s really important is that law-abiding middle-class citizens are deciding that playing by the rules is nothing but a sucker’s game. Just like the poker player who’s been fleeced by all the other players, and gets one mean attitude once he finally wakes up to the con? I’m betting that more and more of the solid American middle-class will begin saying what Brian and Ilsa said: Fuckit. Fuck the rules. Fuck playing the game the banksters want you to play. Fuck being the good citizen. Fuck filling out every form, fuck paying every tax. Fuck the government, fuck the banks who own them. Fuck the free-loaders, living rent-free while we pay. Fuck the legal process, a game which only works if you’ve got the money to pay for the parasite lawyers. Fuck being a chump. Fuck being a stooge. Fuck trying to do the right thing—what good does that get you? What good is coming your way? Fuckit. When the backbone of a country starts thinking that laws and rules are not worth following, it’s just a hop, skip and a jump to anarchy. TV has given us the illusion that anarchy is people rioting in the streets, smashing car windows and looting every store in sight. But there’s also the polite, quiet, far deadlier anarchy of the core citizenry—the upright citizenry—throwing in the towel and deciding it’s just not worth it anymore. If a big enough proportion of the populace—not even a majority, just a largish chunk—decides that it’s just not worth following the rules anymore, then that society’s days are numbered: Not even a police-state with an armed Marine at every corner with Shoot-to-Kill orders can stop such middle-class anarchy. Brian and Ilsa are such anarchists—grey-haired, well-dressed, golf-loving, well-to-do, exceedingly polite anarchists: But anarchists nevertheless. They are not important, or powerful, or influential: They are average—that’s why they’re so deadly: Their numbers are millions. And they are slowly, painfully coming to the conclusion that it’s just not worth it anymore. Once enough of these J. Crew Anarchists decide they no longer give a fuck, it’s over for America—because they are America.
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#1. To: Horse (#0)
Fuckit. Sombody should point out to Brian and Ilsa all the jews who never serve one hour of jail time when they abscond with millions of $$$ from investors, that'll push them right over the edge for good.
__________________________________________________________ It's about freakin time !!!
"Politics and Religion are the building blocks of slavery and oppression. Greed is the mortar that bonds them". Doug Scheidt, 10-5-10
But what about Romans 13? Brian and Ilsa are uh goin' tuh HAY-ELLLLLL tuh BURNNNN in duh FAHR FUH-EVAH! Puh-RAISE JEBUS! .
Fuck the rules. Fuck playing the game the banksters want you to play. Fuck being the good citizen. Fuck filling out every form, fuck paying every tax. Fuck the government, fuck the banks who own them. Fuck the free-loaders, living rent-free while we pay. Fuck the legal process, a game which only works if you’ve got the money to pay for the parasite lawyers. Fuck being a chump. Fuck being a stooge. Fuck trying to do the right thing—what good does that get you? What good is coming your way?
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?"
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#2. To: Horse (#0)
What’s really important is that law-abiding middle-class citizens are deciding that playing by the rules is nothing but a sucker’s game.
#3. To: X-15 (#1)
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
The second dumbest creature on the face of the earth is the one who cannot recognize its enemies. The most stupid of all is the one who will defend and collaborate with the very enemies that are destroying it and its own kind. -Ben Klassen
#4. To: PSUSA (#3)
Caesar is dead and I ain't rendering shit to anybody. Besides, our Revolution against The King of England settled that nonsense long ago. ;-)
But what about Romans 13?
__________________________________________________________
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?"
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#5. To: X-15, PSUSA (#4)
It's alleged that the same writer (Paul) of Romans 13 also wrote the Book of Hebrews. Look at Hebrews 11 and the number of times the "LEGAL Authority" was ignored "by faith" ! [Why is it not titled "The Book of the Jews" ?] 23By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment. 27By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
But what about Romans 13?
"Politics and Religion are the building blocks of slavery and oppression. Greed is the mortar that bonds them". Doug Scheidt, 10-5-10
#6. To: noone222 (#2)
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
#7. To: noone222 (#5)
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
#8. To: noone222 (#5)
This same Apostle Paul also spent many a night in prison for disobeying the legitimate authority in preaching Jesus Christ, and was ultimately killed for it. Consider is partner in crime Peter, who told the legitimate government of Israel that it is better to obey God than men.
It's alleged that the same writer (Paul) of Romans 13...
#9. To: noone222 (#5)
"Jews" was the short name for the tribe of Judea. It was a Hebrew tribe that's why it was named Hebrews because the people mentioned were not all Judean's. The term Jews later became the name we use for Hebrews. Among many Bible scholars it is recognized that Paul did not write Hebrews as the language, form, and style are very different. Some think Appolos the eloquent speaker Paul met in Acts wrote it.
[Why is it not titled "The Book of the Jews" ?]
#10. To: Bill Crowe (#9)
Or maybe: JHVH Jewe's
"Jews" was the short name for the tribe of Judea.
YHVH
YHWH
JHWH
-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
#11. To: Bill Crowe (#9)
My point in asking the question is this: Why, in this one instance would the translators of Greek, a well known and understood language (moreso than ancient Hebrew) use the term Hebrew when Jew was generally used and available. If Jesus told the truth when he instructed us that good fruit can't grow on a bad tree ... I find it impossible that he was a Jew of the same type claiming to be Jews today.
"Politics and Religion are the building blocks of slavery and oppression. Greed is the mortar that bonds them". Doug Scheidt, 10-5-10
#12. To: Bill Crowe (#9)
I suppose there are other ways to look at Romans 13 ... and using good government as the underlying principle to be obeyed it's understandable, but that's hardly what it infers. It basically instructs people to obey tyrants because God has placed them there. In my opinon, there are too many illustrations provided in the scriptures of the exact opposite [Nehemiah 5 being one closely resembling current conditions in America] to believe Romans 13 was written by any other than a weak Roman Emperor.
Some think Appolos the eloquent speaker Paul met in Acts wrote it.
"Politics and Religion are the building blocks of slavery and oppression. Greed is the mortar that bonds them". Doug Scheidt, 10-5-10
#13. To: Eric Stratton (#7)
Thanks bro !
"Politics and Religion are the building blocks of slavery and oppression. Greed is the mortar that bonds them". Doug Scheidt, 10-5-10
#14. To: PSUSA, X-15 (#3)
Here are two schools of thought. "....secular governments have used Romans 13 as a club to beat Christians into obedience to them. Just because a group maintains power through their guns and jails, does not mean God put them there. God said there are powers not ordained by Him at Hosea 8:4, "They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not." God didn't put them in power over the righteous. That's Satan's idea. The righteous don't need worldly, filthy authorities, which are no authorities at all. Do you think that they can instruct the righteous? They themselves steal. They themselves are perverts. And they presume to instruct the righteous? I don't think so. Secular Governments Persecuted Paul Paul being lowered in a basket Apostle Paul had many troubles with worldly rulers. He was given 39 stripes five times by the Jews, beaten with rods three times, in perils by his own countrymen and by the heathen, and frequently in prison. (See 2 Corinthians 11:23-26). In Damascus the governor kept the city of the Damascenes with a garrison, desiring to apprehend Paul. "And through a window in a basket was I let down by the wall, and escaped his hands," wrote Paul at 2 Corinthians 11:32. That is the same Paul that wrote Romans 13. He was forced to flee from the civil authorities, those "powers that be" that people say are ordained of God. Sorry folks, this does not compute. When Paul says, "the powers that be," he is saying the powers that be powers, are ordained of God. In other words, the only true powers are those that God ordains. The crux of the matter is this, Does Paul in Romans 13:1-7 argue that the civil government of this world has legitimate authority over the people of God? We believe that the obedient, called-out people of God are not bound to obey manmade civil governments. God's people are answerable to God above all else and are bound by His commands. At the same time, God's people are not to use their liberty as a cloak to do evil, to foment rebellion or waste time trying to influence the politics of the governments of this world. Furthermore, we believe Paul in Romans 13:1-7 is referring to the spiritual leaders of the Body of Christ, not the civil authorities of this world. If Paul is saying, "Obey the civil authorities," then he has a conflict in his life. Is Paul promoting Caesar or separating from Caesar? If Paul is promoting Caesar, there is no way I want Paul in my Bible. He can't work for Caesar and Jesus Christ. Caesar already has his writings, they are called "revised statutes" or the "law of the land." You can have them if you want. I would rather have God's Word. Actually that which is called the "law of the land," is the law of the devil. The term is used in the U.S. Constitution, where men claim that their laws are the supreme law of the land (See U.S. Constitution, Article VI). Supreme Law of the Land "Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets" (Matthew 22:36-40). Do you know what that represents to a Christian? These two commands are the Supreme Law of the Land. If you believe that something else is the supreme law of the land for a Christian, someone has deceived you. It was a thief who drew you away from the true Supreme Law of the Land (see John 10:8). If you have the two great commandments, how much allegiance do you have left for the worldly rulers of this dark age? Let me tell you, you have ZERO allegiance to Satan and his agents. All your time is spent "loving God" and "loving neighbor," and there is no room left over for obeying Satan and his minions. And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. 1 John 5:19......" http://www.embassyofheaven.com/newslett/news9901/news9901.htm Second school of thought: "....4. What about Romans 13? Your first question is likely to be: "But what about Romans 13?" Romans 13 is the most disastrously misinterpreted Biblical text in the history of Western Civilization. Romans 13 says "the powers" are "ordained" by God. As Calvinists we believe everything is "ordained" by God, including the demonic "powers," of whom the Apostle Paul says we are to "wrestle against" (Eph. 6:12). God "ordains" evil, and the State is the institutionalization of evil. Christians are not to resist evil by fighting evil with evil. This is the message of Romans 12. Not only are Christians not to resist evil in the form of an isolated bully, Christians are not to return evil to the greatest form of evil in the world: The State. This is the message of Romans 13. Here might be the first place for you to begin: Vine & Fig Tree's Romans 13 Home Page The most disastrously misunderstood Biblical text in history! This question is often asked as a diversion or an excuse to avoid the responsibilities and duties of a Christian Anarchist (like forgiving enemies rather than declaring war on them). We don't want to have to take Christ's Sermon on the Mount "too literally," and we want to justify our vengeance against our enemies by saying "we must be practical," and we usually turn to Romans 13 to do that. Read the chapter in its context (Romans 12). Romans 13 is no obstacle to Christian Anarchism. In fact, Romans 13 proves Christian Anarchism: * Romans 13 says "the powers" are "ordained" by God. * If you really want to obey Romans 13, pray to God; ask Him to make you an anarchist. Do you really want to know what Romans 12 and 13 are about? Then see our Romans 13 Home Page Christian Anarchism from Genesis to Revelation The whole Bible teaches Christian Anarchism. From cover to cover. Most Christians are familiar with only a few passages in the Bible, those on "salvation," or maybe a few passages on "the rapture" or "the second coming." Most Christians have never read the history of the rise of the State or the idolatry and infanticide of the kings, and the Prophets who so thoroughly denounced them. The Bible Describes the Battle: Politics vs. Patriarchy All human beings are created in families. Patriarchy is an inescapable concept. If the Christian pater does not train his family in the Ways of Peace, he will be oppressed by a “paternalistic” State. The Family is the basic social unit of a prosperous society. Obedience through the Family eliminates tyranny, protects property. The Institution called "The State" is unBiblical. It reflects rebellion against God's Law. The whole history of man as recorded in the Bible is the history of sinful rebellion against society as created in the Garden of Eden, and the construction of institutions based on Humanistic power: coercion and violence. It is the history of Politics vs. Patriarchy. God never commanded human beings to form a "state." The State was formed by rebels who wanted to seize the wealth of others rather than work for it or engage in peaceful trade......" CRAIG for CONGRESS 2010 -------------------- "The United States WILL be Abolished UPDATE! President Bush has entered into an agreement with Mexican President Vicente Fox to merge the United States and Mexico into a new government, possibly called "The North American Union" or "The United States of North America." The Agreement is called "The Security and Prosperity Partnership." Read the incredible details here: www.STOPtheSPP.US The United States WILL be Abolished THE CONSTITUTION WILL BE ABOLISHED The only question is, * WHO will abolish it? or perhaps stated another way Either THEY will abolish the U.S. on THEIR terms, for THEIR purposes, or WE will abolish the U.S. on OUR terms and for OUR purposes. Who are "THEY?" Who are "WE?" THEY are the most politically powerful people on earth. They hold the highest appointed positions in the Clinton -- and now the Bush -- Administrations. WE are Bible-Believing Christians who believe in a Sovereign God. http://thechristmasconspiracy.com/abolition.htm ".....Who Will Abolish America? When you go to the polls in November, you will be voting on WHO will abolish America. Not whether America is abolished, but WHO will abolish America. That sounds radical, even crazy. You must learn the facts. You must become an informed voter. Click here for details about the plan to abolish America. If America's Founding Fathers were here today, they too would vote to abolish the United States. * They took up arms against taxes which were only one-tenth as burdensome as today's taxes. * They exercised their right to "alter or abolish" a tyrannical government that would never have dreamed of giving government grants to pornographers, abortion-providers, land-owners who won't grow anything for others, drug-users, and tens of thousands of "pork-barrel" projects -- in exchange for votes and other bribes given out by special interests. Washington D.C. is the greatest threat on earth to the ideal of "Liberty Under God." The United States as we know it today -- the United States as created by the two-party monopoly over the last 100 years -- will be and must be abolished. The Republicans and Democrats are going to abolish the U.S.A. and replace it with more of the same: a regional mega-state, merging the United States and Mexico, and eventually all of North and South America. It will be called a "Free Trade" zone, but it will be a new government, with new courts, new legislative powers, and new executives, none of which will be "bound down by the chains of the Constitution." Did you click this link yet? Imagine a "new" America where: * You run a successful business without ever filling out a government form or wondering if you might be violating some senseless government regulation. * You gain a profound sense of satisfaction by supporting valuable charities and investing in life-enhancing technologies, ever since your take-home pay increased by more than $15,000 a year when the Income Tax was abolished. * The young college-aged clerk you hired can read complete sentences, do simple math, be trusted with company assets, and treat your customers with courtesy and respect. * Children are taught in school that God says not to steal, not to kill, and not to rape, and that God has created all of us with unalienable rights. You'll never ever know such an America if you keep voting for the same old politicians. Neither will your children. Kevin Craig is the only candidate for Congress who knows that America's greatness depends on a simple formula. It's an idea so old it sounds radically new: "Liberty, Under God"......" ================== Ezekiel 17:1-6 [ http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55421 ]/John 15:1-2 Ezekiel 17:7-10 [ http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/E...m/satan_on_our_dollar.htm ]/John 15:1-2/Matthew 15:13. Don't slam me; I'm just the messenger, and trying to wrap my mind around it all. Whether you accept it or not is up to you. Prophecy for the church [Israel www.preteristarchive.com/...provan-charles_dd_01.html ] in America: Ezekiel 20:33 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you: 34And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out. 35And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face. 36Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD. 37And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant: 38And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel [kingdom of Heaven/Kingdom of God Matthew 13, Luke 13-ya have to be BORN AGAIN bible.cc/1_corinthians/15-50.htm / bible.cc/1_corinthians/6-9.htm ]: and ye shall know that I am the LORD. http://kingjbible.com/ezekiel/20.htm
But what about Romans 13?
* "Powers" are evil. Christians "wrestle against them."
* Not everything God ordains is good. God ordains evil. The State is evil. The State is God's judgment on archist disobedience. Saddam Hussein does not bear weapons of mass destruction in vain. He is God's "minister." (Proverbs 21:1) Are you afraid of Saddam Hussein? Then you must be an archist (Romans 13:4).
Missouri's 7th District, U.S. House of Representatives
* WHAT will replace it?
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
#15. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#14)
... that are used to explain away a well-translated and plainly written chapter. It says what it says. If you want to be a good little xtian, then you better be a damn good slave. God said there are powers not ordained by Him at Hosea 8:4, "They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not." So god is not all-powerful, all-knowing. That's contradictory. That's Satan's idea. When all else fails, blame Satan. That's convenient. .
Here are two schools of thought. ...
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
The second dumbest creature on the face of the earth is the one who cannot recognize its enemies. The most stupid of all is the one who will defend and collaborate with the very enemies that are destroying it and its own kind. -Ben Klassen
#16. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#14)
In this election sermon, preached before Governor John Hancock, Lieutenant- Governor Samuel Adams, and both houses of the Massachusetts legislature, Rev. Foster provides an exemplary model of a pastor illuminating God's governmental principles for the political leaders of his State. He lists the duties of magistrates as well as the duties of the people in a Christian country, and details God's design for civil government. By Daniel Foster, A.M. Pastor of the Church in New Braintree. Proverbs 8:16. By Me princes rule, and nobles, even all the judges of the earth (Excerpted) In these Proverbs of the wise man, we have the comprehensive duties we owe to God, and the world, made plain and easy, and enforced with the most powerful motives. By folly, the Preacher would be understood to mean vice and wickedness and by wisdom, grace and Christ. In the text, the person speaking is doubtless Jesus Christ, who by the Apostle, is called "the wisdom of God, and the power of God." "By me Princes rule, and Nobles, even all the Judges of the earth:" That is, by my Providence and appointment, they are advanced to rule and govern; and their government is merciful and righteous, happy and prosperous, by my council and assistance. .... The text leads us to speak of civil government, as ordained of God, in the hands of the mediator; of civil rulers, as holding their commission and authority under Christ; of their duty and dignity as his Ministers, and of the duty and privilege of the people under their administration. I. That civil government is ordained of God in the hands of the Mediator, the Absolute necessity of order and government, for the existence and happiness of society, pleads its divine original: For without it, the affairs of mankind would fall into the utmost confusion and disorder. .... Civil government, then, is a branch of the tree of life, and founded in, and built upon that covenant, sealed in Heaven by the oath of God, and upon earth by the blood of Christ. .... The kingdom of Christ, where he rules by his word and spirit, is his Church, a spiritual kingdom. But his commission extends to the Utmost ends of the earth. "For the stone cut out of the mountain without hands, is to break in pieces all other kingdoms, and fill the earth." His kingdom will outlive all other kingdoms, and swallow them up; for he must reign till he hath "put down all rule and all authority and power." This implies that rule and authority among men, or which is the same thing, civil government, is a divine appointment, and that it is put into the hands of the Mediator to rule and govern the world. For when the great and important ends for which he received his mediatorial kingdom, shall be accomplished, he will put down both ministry and magistracy. II. That civil rulers hold their commission and authority under Christ. Not that Christ has pointed out the form of government, or the persons to rule and govern; in this sense his "kingdom is not of this world" But Christianity enforces the law of nature; and has confirmed the several constitutions of states and kingdoms, and called our obedience to the higher powers, as the gospel finds them. The mode of government, and persons to govern, are submitted to the wisdom of men, in pursuance of a divine ordinance, that second causes might operate. It being the method of God to carry on the designs of his government in this world, by the instrumentality of subordinate Agents. When therefore, a people unite in a form of government, and choose persons to rule and govern them and pledge their faith to be obedient to, and support the government, "though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth or addeth thereunto." The Magistrate then, called to office by the voice of the people, and solemnly sworn, becomes an ordinance of God, and receives his authority from him, "by whom Princes rule, and Nobles, even all the Judges of the earth." And the apostle, when he enjoins obedience to civil rulers, "because the powers that be, are ordained of God," means to include in his idea, the methods by which they become possessed of their power, and likewise the use and improvement they make of it: If they rule for God, and for good to the people, they are to be subjected to, otherwise, "we ought to obey God, rather than men." III. We come to speak of the duty and dignity of civil rulers, as the ministers of Christ. 1st. It is their duty to uphold the kingdom of Christ, which consists in "righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost." Religion is, and ever has been, considered the glory of a people; as it insures the favor and protection of Heaven. Under the former dispensation, the Ark of God, which contained his laws, was a token of his presence and defense. Governor Eli, whose heart trembled for it, sustained the tidings of the of the death of his two Sons with fortitude; but when it was told him that the Ark of God was taken, he fell and died, and his Daughter refused to be comforted, though a Son was born; because the glory was departed from Israel, and the Ark of God was taken. Under this dispensation, the gospel and its ordinances, are our glory and defense. And as magistrates are honored by Christ, and act under his banner, they should be careful to be his glory, and support his religion in the world. All men should be possessed of a principle of piety and virtue; but none stand in greater need of it than those who are called to rule and govern. .... If religion is not honored and supported by men in places of public trust, the glory of the Lord will soon depart, and the fire of God be scattered over the city. Rulers are called "the shields of the earth;" they are to protect the people from injuries among men, and likewise from the judgments of God. When God's wrath was kindled against Israel, for their idolatry at the foot of the mount, we find Moses, that pious ruler, pleading the cause of the people, and he sounds his plea upon God's covenant, and reminds him of his oath. And David, that man after God's own heart, when he saw the Angel that smote the people, said, but these sheep, what have they done? "And the Lord said unto the Angel, it is enough, stay now thine hand." The attention Christian rulers pay to religion in their hearts, and in their government, will be their support when they are called to lay down their commission, and their lives; it will brighten the scene before them, and embalm their memories when they are dead. 2d. It is the duty of Christian rulers, to preserve and secure to the people, their liberties and properties. The end and design of civil government is to secure the happiness of the whole community. For this, rulers are appointed; "he is the Minister of God to thee for good." The liberties of mankind have ever been held dear, for they are given are by God and nature. "With a great sum, obtained I this freedom," says the chief Captain to Paul, who relied, "but I was born free." This has been and still is the voice of Americans; and our attention to the voice, which is from Heaven, has brought us into possession of the liberties and privileges, we this day enjoy. .... 3d. The Christian ruler will hear the complaints, and redress the grievances of the people he governs. Christian rulers will consider the infancy of the people, and the burdens laid upon them, and be careful lest they over-drive, and so destroy the flock of God. They will lessen the charges of government, and lighten every burden, as much as is consistent with the honor and well-being of government. The cause of the widow, the fatherless, the orphan; the soldier, and him that has loaned hi money for the help of government, will come with peculiar grace before Christian rulers; who will hold themselves Heaven's clients to vindicate their righteous claims; and plead their cause. .... Government is an important trust, and though it be limited by righteous and equitable laws; yet such is the condition of human nature in this world, that the greatest and best of men are liable to err, and are insufficient to manage the great affairs of state, without direction and influence from Heaven. .... 'The affairs of government are often intricate and perplexing, and dangers eminent and threatening, so that rulers find occasion to adopt the language of the pious king of Judah, "neither know we what to do." We are divinely bound to pray "for all in authority," that government might be equal and righteous, and that we might "lead a peaceable and quiet life, in all Godliness and honesty." It is the blessing of God, that makes government steady and effectual, and gives peace and quietness to the Commonwealth; and God will be sought unto, for such an inestimable blessing. .... The advantages we enjoy tinder a righteous administration, entitle those who govern to large returns. Our persons and properties are secured, and we set under our own vine and fig-tree; being protected, by a government merciful and righteous. When taxes are made for the support of government, there is a moral obligation on the people, to discharge them; for government which is an ordinance of God, could not subsist without such support. Our blessed Lord set us an example worthy of imitation, when he sent Peter to the mouth of the fish, that he might receive money to pay their tribute And enjoined upon us to "render to Caesar, the things that be Caesar's." A support, honor, love and obedience, are enjoined through the whole book of God, upon the people, as a just tribute due to those who govern. It is the privilege of the people granted them by God and nature, to choose their own rulers. Kingly government was never of divine appointment; but added, as the law was, "by reason of transgression." The government, early established in the world among the ancient Hebrews, was a free republic like ours, the sovereignty resided in the body of the people. They were to choose able men; and they were called to give their assent to the laws given from Heaven, before they were put into execution. When government is thus founded, according to the divine mind, and rulers chosen, they become representatives of the power and majesty of God; and important instruments employed by his providence and grace, in the administration of affairs in this lower world. They are entrusted with the lives, liberties and properties of the people, For them prayer should be continually made, and to them obedience given, as God's vicegerents, when they rule for him, and for good to the people. People should be careful of censuring them, and increasing their burden and concern, lest they be reproved by him, who has forbid our "reviling the gods, or speaking evil of the rulers of the people." But when rulers neglect the great affairs of government...the pillars of government will fall, and society throw off its pleasing apparel: "The sword shall be upon the arm, and upon the right eye of the magistrate" he shall lose his discernment in public measures, and his authority shall be taken away. .... Civil government is designed to sub-serve the grace of the gospel; and the happiness it defuses through society in this world, should call forth our gratitude and praise to God, its author. .... And His Excellency the Governor and Commander in Chief of this Commonwealth, claims our first attention. MAY IT PLEASE YOUR EXCELLENCY, .... Your Excellency will please to remember, that your authority comes from Christ, though by the mediation of the people; whose religion you will imbibe in your heart, and support in your government, that the people may take knowledge of you, that you have been with Him, by whom you rule. The ministers of Christ, who are commissioned by the same authority that invests you, will meet your countenance and protection, though they act in another apartment in the house of Christ. .... The Honorable the Senate, and the Honorable the House of Representatives, claim the attention of the Preacher, and to whom he would now turn his discourse. You are this day, respectable gentleman, constituted the ordinance of God, for good; and, having received authority from Christ, and the people, you have before you a very weighty concern, to promote the best interest of the people, and see that the Commonwealth receive no detriment. The multitude of your brethren have put confidence in you, and made you the keepers of their vineyard. You will regard, gentlemen, the sacred enclosure of Christ, and be nursing fathers to his church, and people. We look to you for equal and righteous laws, and a pattern of every virtue. You will remember, that government came into the world, on the same benevolent errand its Divine Author did, not to perplex and destroy men's lives, but to enlighten, reform, and save them: And if there are any laws too sanguine in the case of life and death, you will adopt some other punishment than that of sending souls unprepared, to the tribunal of God. Be not unmindful, sirs, that the eyes of God are upon you in your public capacity: He observes what attention you pay to the concerns of the public to the widow and fatherless, the poor and needy, and the cause of virtue and religion. To him you are accountable, and before his awful tribunal you must soon stand, with the meanest of your brethren. .... Lay aside party considerations and private designs, and do that which you can answer to God, and the people. Then you will be blessed and the blessings of many, ready to perish, will come upon you. And in the last grand revolution, when all distinctions, but those of a religious nature will be forever done away, you will meet the approbation of HIM, by whom you rule, and your reward will be great. We wish you divine direction, and a blessing, this day, out of the house of God. Let this great and attentive Assembly, call to mind the duties they owe to God, and the world, and the obligations they are under to the faithful discharge of them.
The following presupposes that men govern with a Bible in their right hand
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"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?"
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#17. To: PSUSA (#15)
So god is not all-powerful, all-knowing. That's contradictory. no; that's a faulty translation. you could get a concordance, and look up the word "knew". It has MANY meanings, including "regarded", "have respect" like this: ...they have made princes, and I regarded [or, respected] it not. That's Satan's idea. When all else fails, blame Satan. That's convenient. Somewhere along the way, you've fallen into their snare: Synagogue of Satan - Antichrist Conspiracy "..The entire purpose of the New World Order is to bring Lucifer down to earth and enforce worldwide worship of him as God...." Those in the New World Order who are in control of most of the governments of the world already today declare that to become a citizen of this order will require a Luciferian oath. Accordingly those in the implementation stages proclaim: "No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a Luciferian Initiation." ---David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations Amongst all the global governing changes and wars that are taking place to accommodate this New World Order many are overlooking the most dominant aspect of it, its religious and occultic nature. The New World Order IS about religion. It is about worshipping Lucifer." www.thewatcherfiles.com/sherry/nwo.htm Revelation 20:7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. "Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary 20:7-10 While this world lasts, Satan's power in it will not be wholly destroyed, though it may be limited and lessened. No sooner is Satan let loose, than he again begins deceiving the nations, and stirring them up to make war with the saints and servants of God. It would be well if the servants and ministers of Christ were as active and persevering in doing good, as his enemies in doing mischief. God will fight this last and decisive battle for his people, that the victory may be complete, and the glory be to himself." Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? 18All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. 19But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. .... kingjbible.com/isaiah/14.htm bible.cc/genesis/3-15.htm . Fini.
God said there are powers not ordained by Him at Hosea 8:4, "They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not."
Harold Wallace Rosenthal, "Most Jews do not like to admit it, but our god is Lucifer." That is the astounding admission made by Harold Wallace Rosenthal, ... www.antichristconspiracy.com/synagogue_of_satan.htm
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
#18. To: X-15 (#16)
That's a very lovely speech, that would be considered subversive, anti-Semitic, unpolitically correct, a hate crime, or even terrorism, by the PTB today, and probably get you a visit by the Mossad.
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
#19. To: Horse (#0)
The last people in the world you want to make mad are white people.
"If ever this vast country is brought under a single government, it will be one of the most extensive corruption, indifferent and incapable of a wholesome care over so wide a spread of surface. This will not be borne, and you will have to choose between reform and revolution. If I know the spirit of this country, the one or the other is inevitable." - Thomas Jefferson
#20. To: Turtle (#19)
I've come to realize that, like the truth about jews running Hollywood and the news media, it's a topic that's NEVER discussed in public by ANYBODY. It was white American men who grew up looking at the ass-end of a mule behind a plow who whipped the Germans and the Japs who had been raised in a militaristic society. Politicians wake up in a cold sweat just hoping to make it to their pension without violence breaking out on their watch.
The last people in the world you want to make mad are white people.
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"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?"
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#21. To: PSUSA (#15)
That's contradictory. no; that's a faulty translation. Also consider it might be a false dichotomy. The best explanation I have seen is here: "What About this Old Testament 'Killer God'?" "... How do we reconcile two such diametrically opposing characters (or so it seems) into one cohesive Loving God? God has graciously given us a number of clues to answer this mystery, clues that we have read many times, but maybe have not completely understood. He does not explicitly explain each situation that may seem difficult to comprehend, but He has given us enough clues to allow us to understand the principles on which He acts. Clue No. 1: Who hardened Pharaoh's heart? God says, "I did it." "And the Lord said to Moses, 'When you go back to Egypt, see that you do all those wonders before Pharaoh which I have put in your hand. But I will harden his heart so that he will not let the people go." (Ex. 4:21) God says, "Pharaoh did it." "But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not heed them, as the Lord had said...But Pharaoh hardened his heart at this time also; neither would he let the people go." (Ex. 8:15,32)...." "...Look at Romans 1:18: "For the wrath (Greek word orge) of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold (suppress) the truth in unrighteousness." Then verses 24, 26 and 28 tell us how God demonstrates His wrath: Verse 24: "Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves." Verse 26: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections; for even their women did change (exchange) the natural use into (for) that which is against nature." Verse 28: "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate (debased) mind, to do those things which are not convenient (fitting)." So we see that God's wrath is just giving us up to our own sinful ways to reap what we have sown. He doesn't punish us. He doesn't harm us in any way. He just let's us go the way we have chosen. We then punish ourselves by our wrong decisions. ...." "...All through the Bible, we see that both God and Satan work through people. Jesus has told us to "Go into all the world, and make disciples out of all nations." Matt 28:19 We are to be Jesus' ambassadors, continuing the work He did when He was on earth. He wants to live in our hearts to make us like Him. But He will never force His way into our life. On the contrary, He "stands at the door and knocks" like a gentleman. If we let Him in, He will come in and fellowship with us, as a father does with his children. Satan, the Adversary, on the other hand, is a liar and a murderer (John 8:44). He wants to control us completely and will use force to do it. He will use us for his plans, he may even "bless" us mightily with fame or fortune until he is finished with us, then his desire is to destroy us. He is the author of death, disease and destruction. It is clear from many passages in the Bible that both God and Satan work through people. That is their modus operandi, their method of operation. In addition, God says many times in the Bible, that He is the one Who is in control of EVERYTHING! Eph 1:11 God "works ALL things after the counsel of HIS OWN WILL." Eph 2:10 "For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." The highest and most powerful of earth's leaders play the part that God assigns them, though they don't know it. It's recorded in the following texts. Proverbs 21:1 "The king's heart is in the hand of the Lord as the rivers of water: He directs it wherever He pleases."...." "...These, and many other texts, show clearly that GOD (and NOT man) IS IN CHARGE OF THIS WORLD and in charge of our lives..... Another characteristic of God is that He has a Purpose and He has PLANNED EVERYTHING ('predestined' according to God's language) from the beginning. The word predestination appears in the Bible FOUR times: Romans 8:29,30 and Eph 1:5, 11. I realize that word makes everyone nervous, but when you discover God's ultimate plan, you will find that word a great blessing. Romans 8:28, 29,30 says: "And we know that ALL things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are called according to His PURPOSE...." "....We human beings want what we want when we want it, but alas, we get what we get when we get it! Back to the three illustrations. Pharaoh hardened his own heart. He made the decision not to let Israel go, but it was based on information and circumstances that he had little or no control over. The circumstances were dropped in his lap (the Playwright had written the action) and Pharaoh made the decision based on those circumstances. King Saul had chosen to go his own way. He inquired of a sorcerer, a witch, about what would happen in battle. He KNEW that was wrong! He was the one who had made a national law against visiting sorcerers, yet he decided to visit one himself. So, if God "wrote the play" and the actors are just playing their parts, can God judge Saul or Pharaoh for their actions? Absolutely. They both knew that their actions were wrong. They willfully made the wrong decision based on what they knew. Their own willful actions brought about their eventual outcome. Now we understand that when God says HE DID IT, we know that the action was actually performed by people based on their own decisions. God "gives us up" to our own sinful ways to do what we desire, and we end up reaping what we have sown. That's the answer to the Old Testament, supposedly, vengeful God. He doesn't do it, even though he takes credit for it. WE DO IT TO OURSELVES! So, we have established that when God says He did it, WE actually are doing it to ourselves. We will find that when He says Satan, the destroyer did it, again WE actually are doing it to ourselves. It also is reasonable to assume that when God says" an Angel" did it, WE are really doing it to ourselves....." http://www.goodnewsaboutgod.com/studies/otkillergod.htm hope that helps. =================== It is clear from many passages in the Bible that both God and Satan work through people. That is their modus operandi, their method of operation. In addition, God says many times in the Bible, that He is the one Who is in control of EVERYTHING! see: Isaiah 10:15 Shall the axe boast itself against him that heweth therewith? [or] shall the saw magnify itself against him that shaketh it? as if the rod should shake [itself] against them that lift it up, [or] as if the staff should lift up [itself, as if it were] no wood. I don't have all the answers. I'm studying the Vine and Fig Tree website and one other, and trying to reconcile them with scripture and reach some conclusions for myself. I just know there's a battle going on, and I know who wins [it isn't Satan].
So god is not all-powerful, all-knowing.
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
#22. To: noone222 (#11) (Edited)
Every version of the Bible calls it the Book of Hebrews. That in itself tells me something about that being the correct title. If Jesus told the truth when he instructed us that good fruit can't grow on a bad tree ... I find it impossible that he was a Jew of the same type claiming to be Jews today. How many times did Jesus Christ call the Pharisee's Jews? You know something I don't know because I just thought about it but my guess is never (for what that's worth). But Jesus Christ and God bitched about the Jews then about their appearances of being righteous when they weren't righteous at all. They're whole being was to appear righteous to others but not to God. So, many of today's Jews are not Jews at all in Gods eyes. Rom 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? Rom 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. Being Jewish is following the Law with the heart for righteousness not outward appearances.
My point in asking the question is this: Why, in this one instance would the translators of Greek, a well known and understood language (moreso than ancient Hebrew) use the term Hebrew when Jew was generally used and available.
#23. To: noone222 (#12)
My concern here on this thread is justifying lawlessness by Scriptures. We are in an age of lawlessness and the article points out that the retired couple who played by the rules feel like they are getting screwed while others who didn't play by the rules made out like bandits. So the couple feels like fools when they should be glad they did it right, they signed the mortgage, etc etc and it is right to follow their word. It's fine if they can do something to make their arrangement better for them but not by going against what they know is right and is right. It's clear in Scripture if man's laws are contrary to God's laws to ignore them or break them. Beyond that I'm not going to guess. If you really believe Romans 13 was written by some Roman Emperor why bother with the Bible?
In my opinon, there are too many illustrations provided in the scriptures of the exact opposite [Nehemiah 5 being one closely resembling current conditions in America] to believe Romans 13 was written by any other than a weak Roman Emperor.
#24. To: Bill Crowe (#23)
In any attempt to understand our existence the Bible should be studied. What we believe doesn't necessarily mean anything. If we believe an untruth we have gained nothing. There is an ultimate truth and all belief systems to the contrary are clouds without water. I'm a Bible student in the act of studying, not a preacher telling others what to believe. God admits to being "TRUTH" and "SPIRIT" ... so seeking the Truth shouldn't be frowned upon by anyone simply because someone else's understanding doesn't suit or match that of others. Mainstream everything or things accepted to be common knowledge have been pretty much bullshit as far as I can determine. The "Divine" right of kings to rule may or may not be legitimate but for millenium it was FACT. Schools, Governments, Media, and Churches have all lied through their crooked teeth to me my entire life. The Churches are led by hypocrites and liars that have made "merchandise" of men's souls. What we really "know" appears to shrink as true knowledge increases. I think we actually know very little because of our educational programming.
If you really believe Romans 13 was written by some Roman Emperor why bother with the Bible?
"Politics and Religion are the building blocks of slavery and oppression. Greed is the mortar that bonds them". Doug Scheidt, 10-5-10
#25. To: Bill Crowe (#23) (Edited)
Jesus said to the Pharisees something to the effect that "your laws make my Father's Laws of no effect" (Traditions of Men/Elders, ie., BABYLONIAN- TALMUDIC LAW). So, when you infer that these people resorted to lawlessness I must ask "whose law" ? This retired couple is living in a Babylonian System of Law that mocks God and God's Laws. (God's Law calls for debt forgiveness doesn't it ?) Bill, here's the bottomline "in my opinion": The lifetime of any one person is so insignificant that the scriptures refer to it as a vapor. If this is so we should obey God's Law regardless of the consequences. When "Christians compromise with the "system" by "voting" to install politicians that promote abortion the "salt has lost its savor" as the Bible says. God's Law doesn't allow for inflating the currency or usury but so-called Christians are in debt under usury beyond their ability to repay. Many modern preachers promote the notion of the prosperity doctrine contrary to Jesus' admonishment that if He were persecuted so they too would be persecuted. It's not my purpose to illustrate how hypocritical the Christian Church has become but rather to open the discussion about "law" to relevance. It's like Peter said "Whose law are we to obey, God's or men's" ? God warned against unequal weights and measures, yet we accept the inflated and deflated FRNs and usury in direct defiance of God. Most Christians trust the Social Security Administration for care in their old age rather than give their trust and reliance to God. The Bible says "they worship me with their (lips) mouth only" ... and this is true of modern Christianity. In my opinion, most of modern Christianity are as much hypocrites as their preachers and teachers. The acceptance of this fake credit/currency system, (complete with demonic or masonic symbology) results in the murder and genocide we see throughout the world and much responsibility for the senseless murder and mayhem must be placed at the feet of the Christian Churches, that even allow their congregations to use the devil's (synagogue of satan) money to support the Church. (Without the ability to create money out of thin air the banks and military industrial complex would lose capacity to build huge war machines). I've said enough.
My concern here on this thread is justifying lawlessness by Scriptures. We are in an age of lawlessness and the article points out that the retired couple who played by the rules feel like they are getting screwed while others who didn't play by the rules made out like bandits.
"Politics and Religion are the building blocks of slavery and oppression. Greed is the mortar that bonds them". Doug Scheidt, 10-5-10
#26. To: noone222 (#24)
I think we are afflicted by the same "malady", we see and hate the evil that is in the world whose systems and designs are that of the god of this world, the devil's. From the Scripture we know that most things in this world are in direct contrast to what God would have it. We of not of this world yet we have to live and function in it. The way I've lived almost my entire life has been to see the good and now it seems all I see is the bad and the evil. My life has changed and I'm pissed off at how right you are in your above quote. They all suck and all of them are out to fuck us one way or the other. Christian's and Christian churches? Shit, they're just as stupid as the rest of the people. I look at the 10 original Bill of Rights and how simple they are to understand and see how people come up with all kinds of differing views on what they say. Good grief, now toss a Bible at some schmuck and have him go like at rabid dog on it. If the Founding Fathers were as wise as I think they were I doubt any of them thought we would have a Republic based on the Constitution in 30 years from when they signed it. The Apostle Paul said near the end of his life all had forsaken him and all of Christianity started going into corruption. Imagine the corruption and lies 2 thousand years later. I'm basically ignorant of God's concept of usury. I looked up a number of verses but that's not going to give me the conviction I need to have so I defer to what you have to say about it for now. But if you want a house and can't buy it outright either rent or get a mortgage paying interest. That's the way the world works. To me signing the contract is a person's word on it which is what I believe God would have done. Debt forgiveness? If by God it happens but forget about it in this world, it doesn't work that way. Why haven't Christians set a program to help each other? Ignorant, stupid, or they don't care. Normally I never look at commentaries on the Bible but in this case I found a bit that is pretty close to my view of God's Law and man's law. "To obey magistrates; inferior ones; in all things that are according to the laws of God, and right reason, that do not contradict what God has commanded, or break in upon the rights and dictates of conscience; in all things of a civil nature, and which are for the good of society, and do not affect religion, and the worship of God." John Gill Sure there is evil in man's law but not all the time. It was Roman law that saved the Apostle Paul from being killed by the Jews in Jerusalem. Man's law sometimes protects Christian's from unscrupulous bastards like some of our famous TV evangelists like the Bakker's etc.
Schools, Governments, Media, and Churches have all lied through their crooked teeth to me my entire life. The Churches are led by hypocrites and liars that have made "merchandise" of men's souls.
#27. To: Bill Crowe (#26) (Edited)
To be coerced by force of arms to violate ones conscience is the antithesis of freedom. When we are told constantly how "free" we are while being taxed to support abortions, wars, and a government that terrorizes our neighbors, we are being lied to. When we accept the aforementioned as being "the way it is" we are a party to the abortions, wars, and terror and worse, we are in denial of truth. Most of the time the magistrates or other "officials" claim to be Christians and can't see that their actions violate their religious and political choice. I was ticketed some time ago and had to go before the Justice of the Peace who has since quit that job and has also become a dear friend. During my "trial" EDIT: For some reason most of my response was disappeared. When I came online (4UM is my homepage) the page was larger than my screen. Then I noticed a delay when typing. I'll try to sum up my response. During my trial for these traffic violations I asked the cop and the JP if they were Christians and they said yes. I asked them why they were enforcing laws (Roman Civil Laws) that contradict their religious beliefs and make them persecute their friends and family members. Anyway, I've not changed anything but haven't been ticketed either. I quit acting in anger and began to see circumstances as opportunities to spread the truth. The JP has a remote ranch (way remote) with cattle and water and everything necessary to survive desparate times. I've been invited to join them there in the event things go south. (Who'd a thunk it ? The anti-government loon and the local JP find common ground, a friendship develops, and an opportunity for expanded discussions leads the JP and her husband to see things differently). The point I want to make is that we can never be sure of the outcome when events are unfolding. I don't force religion on anyone, I don't even argue about it with those that want to be atheists or debaters (arguers), I just trust God completely and my way of demonstrating it is to live by God's laws as best I know how. The way the world and our country are going it won't be long before they aren't fit to survive in let alone raise a family in. Those in power have allowed this degeneration by inventing laws that circumvent God's, and following them. They are in error whether or not each of them understands. However, one day I realized just how dumb I had been to think I controlled anything, and that God's rules were truly "good" and I was inherently rebellious. Following man's laws (as well as the pulpit prostitutes that lie to their congregations, telling them "do what thou will" and Jesus will forgive you,) has us where we are today ... in "hell" ! Anyway, this works for me.
"To obey magistrates; inferior ones; in all things that are according to the laws of God, and right reason, that do not contradict what God has commanded, or break in upon the rights and dictates of conscience;
"Politics and Religion are the building blocks of slavery and oppression. Greed is the mortar that bonds them". Doug Scheidt, 10-5-10
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