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Health
See other Health Articles

Title: Tea Party Boils Over Proposed NYC Ban On Sugar Drinks
Source: Forbes
URL Source: http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2 ... posed-nyc-ban-on-sugar-drinks/
Published: Oct 9, 2010
Author: staff
Post Date: 2010-10-09 21:19:52 by buckeroo
Keywords: None
Views: 1983
Comments: 121

You can just feel the pressure building inside the teapot.

New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg has requested that the USDA permit his city to engage in a two year experimental program whereby recipients of food stamps – issued by the USDA- would be banned from using the government food assistance program for the purchase of sugar-sweetened beverages.

The test program, which would apply to 1.7 million of NYC’s 8 million residents, would seek to discover whether the denial of these unhealthy substances will have a measurable effect on skyrocketing obesity rates, particularly among the nation’s poor.

Not surprisingly, those who warn of big government sticking its nose into every facet of our lives are going crazy.

If bureaucrats can tell a segment of the population that they can’t drink soft drinks, what’s next? Is it only a matter of time until the government prohibits us from eating hamburgers and hot dogs? Will apple pie, a favorite desert loaded with unhealthy sugars, cease to be the symbol of good, old fashioned American values once the government puts pies and cakes on its hit list?

While it is not difficult to see the point made by those in opposition to this sort of government interference and restriction, it would be wise for everyone to take a deep breath and gain a better understanding of what we are talking about before blowing our collective stacks.

There is no question but that sugary soft drinks play a substantial role in our growing obesity problem, particularly among children. There is also little disagreement that obesity leads to increased cases of type II diabetes, heart disease and any number of illnesses that present as obese children grow into adulthood.

We also know that for some of these children and adults, the medical treatment they will require to deal with these illnesses throughout their lives will be provided courtesy of state and federal safety net programs paid for with taxpayer money.

That means that you and I will be paying not only for the care and treatment of the illnesses brought on by these poor nutritional habits for years to come, but are already paying for the very nutritional practices that bring on the disease in the first place.

What we have here is one big exercise in enabling – and it simply doesn’t make sense.

Still, there are those vigorously arguing that imposing this sort of restriction means that rich people are free to destroy their bodies however they choose while the poor would be denied the same right to do the same.

I don’t think this is true.

For starters, New York City would not be telling food stamp recipients that they are prohibited from enjoying a Coke and a smile. Rather, the city would be temporarily requiring that those receiving aid, at the pleasure and expense of the American taxpayer, pay for that Coke out of their own pocket rather than with the food stamps we provide them.

There is a huge difference between telling Americans what they may eat and drink when they are spending their own money versus telling citizens they are free to destroy their health with their food choices when the taxpayer is picking up the tab for the menu. This is particularly true when beneficiaries of the government programs make nutritional choices that virtually guarantee that they will be repaying the favor by forcing the taxpayers to pick up even larger bills down the road for the expensive health problems their choices are likely to cause.

However, such logic will not stop some from continuing to argue that if an American wants to drink paint and suffer the consequences, such behavior is both their prerogative and their right in a free country.

Maybe. But while I can appreciate that one who chooses to buy a Twinkie with their hard earned cash doesn’t need me to put in my two cents as to the intelligence of such a decision, when that individual elects to accept food stamps, paid for and provided by the American taxpayer, a different sort of bargain is struck.

It is no longer a matter of our sticking our nose into that individual’s business. It becomes a matter of our protecting our collective investment so that the money we have available to help out those in need can reach more people with similar needs.

It is simply not reasonable for food stamp recipients to ignore the fact that allowing expenditures of the people’s money on food that we know is likely to create or contribute to expensive, lifelong illnesses- illnesses the public may well be responsible to pay for – takes away from our collective ability to help others in need. It’s selfish and it’s wrong.

Shouldn’t these beneficiaries have the same concern for others who find themselves in a difficult economic situation that the rest of us express by providing our tax dollars to help them out in tough times?

When people fail to behave in a mature and reasonable manner, reflective of the reality of their circumstances, is it really so wrong for the government to step in and require them to do so in order to protect the rest of the public who will suffer from the behavior of those who should know better?

I don’t think so. And to all those whose immediate reaction is to cry foul, shouldn’t you consider the government’s obligation to protect our taxpayer money so that we get the biggest bang for each of our bucks?

Government has a legitimate interest and obligation to protect our tax dollars. Further, taxpayers cannot shout about ‘big government’ wasting our money from one side of their collective mouth and then shout from the other when the government attempts to rein in behavior that does waste our money or, at least, fails to put it to its best use.

A decent society has an obligation to do what it can for the least fortunate among us just as the least fortunate among us have an obligation to use good and mature judgment when accepting our contributions to their welfare. Government’s willingness to require the beneficiaries of our assistance to use those benefits in a way that will not contribute to even greater taxpayer expense only makes sense.

Those on the right should not allow ideology to get in the way of allowing the government to do the smart thing.

As for those on the left, we would do well to recall the old saying about not biting the hand that feeds you. It is fundamentally wrong for those accepting the help of the American public to pay it forward and back by ignoring proper nutrition, thereby causing the public that helps them to assume even larger expenses down the road.

This is not a matter of of human dignity, respect or rights. It is a matter of a basic level of maturity that we have a right to expect.

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#21. To: FormerLurker (#19)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-10-10   13:48:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Eric Stratton (#15)

And no, junk food is not cheaper, it's more expensive. Go price a typical 9 oz. bag of chips for example, or a box of twinkies. Nutrition = zero.

Sweets can kill hunger, and a box of twinkies cost less than buying enough hamburg and buns to feed the same amount of people.

Ramen noodles is one of the worst things you can buy in terms of MSG and artificial flavors, yet it's so cheap many poor people buy it to have something other than twinkies to eat.

As far as chips, a huge bag of chips can be bought for a dollar or so.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   13:48:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: FormerLurker (#20)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-10-10   13:50:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Eric Stratton (#21)

Don't know when the discussion turned to HFCS, but I think those are still available now in our area. Have been for a couple of months.

The original article is concerning how NY wants to ban any food that contains natural sugar. It didn't say they wanted to eliminate soda or other items which contain HFCS or Aspartame, in fact, it seems they're demanding that's what people consume.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   13:51:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: FormerLurker (#22) (Edited)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-10-10   13:53:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Eric Stratton (#23)

I spoke to a recruiter for a company that had offered a guy a job who replied by asking if he could start in 6 weeks so that he could run out his string of unemployment. Talk about balls! She had considered retracting the offer.

I've known people who had been out of work for years, who sent out resumes each day, who called each recruiter they could find, yet couldn't find work, not even getting called in for an interview.

And these were people who had decades of experience in various areas of software engineering.

Luckily, they found steady employment several years ago, but they had to survive on almost nothing at all for quite some time.

There will always be those who choose to milk the system, but not every person collecting is doing so because they want to, many are forced to take what they can get in order to feed themselves and their families, and keep some sort of roof over their heads.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   13:55:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: FormerLurker (#24)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-10-10   13:56:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Eric Stratton (#25)

Agree to disagree. But then you also shouldn't have much trouble with many other entitlement program stuff, like unemployment and the way that's administered.

Have you ever been laid off? There has to be some sort of safety net in order to prevent anarchy.

If there were no such safety net, people would resort to whatever desperate means they could dream up in order to survive, and that includes robbery, theft, and other criminal activities.

The filthy rich got their start that way, and by being super cheap and greedy, built up their fortunes over the centuries of time.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   13:58:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: FormerLurker (#3)

New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg has requested that the USDA permit his city to engage in a two year experimental program whereby recipients of food stamps – issued by the USDA- would be banned from using the government food assistance program for the purchase of sugar-sweetened beverages.

The test program, which would apply to 1.7 million of NYC’s 8 million residents, would seek to discover whether the denial of these unhealthy substances will have a measurable effect on skyrocketing obesity rates, particularly among the nation’s poor.

Right, they'd rather poison everyone with high fructose corn syrup and Aspartame. It'll do the exact opposite of what is claimed, where it's been proven that HFCS CAUSES obesity, and Aspartame becomes additictive causing the person to drink MORE "soft drinks" and other such junk.

Wanna really piss off Big Pharma and Big Fuud?

Put aspartame and HFCS on the cannot buy list.

It would be a very healthy thing to do, but those two products generate a lot of profit for ADM and Big Pharma.

Actually between sugar and aspartame, aspartame is MUCH more toxic and has many more adverse health affects.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-10-10   13:59:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Eric Stratton (#27)

If I'm paying for someone else's groceries, then IMO they should be getting the biggest bang for their buck in terms of nutrition, cost, etc. You obviously disagree.

I don't disagree, yet they are forced to buy junk because they just can't afford to do otherwise.

If you think about it, it's rather convenient that the cheapest foods are those which contain all the worst things out on the market these days. It's an effective way to render such people obese and prone to health problems, and the neurotoxins dull their minds to a point they can't or won't find productive and meaningful work.

Children living under such conditions don't have a chance.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   14:02:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Original_Intent (#29)

Wanna really piss off Big Pharma and Big Fuud?

Put aspartame and HFCS on the cannot buy list.

Now THAT would be something I would fully support.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   14:02:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Artisan (#18)

when i went to France i noticed very few fat, chubby, or obese people. a lot of smokers everywhere though. soda is very expensive there though. they dont drink it at all like we do here. that may be one reason.

Interestingly France also has a lower rate of heart disease than the U.S. despite higher rates of smoking. Ditto Japan.

The key difference would seem to be diet.

The French drink a lot of red wine which tends to keep blockages from forming.

The Japanese eat more fish and vegetables, beef is verrrry expensive in Japan, and so their leaner, higher in Omega 3 and 6 fatty acids, diet is much more heart healthy.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-10-10   14:04:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: FormerLurker (#30)

If I'm paying for someone else's groceries, then IMO they should be getting the biggest bang for their buck in terms of nutrition, cost, etc. You obviously disagree.

I don't disagree, yet they are forced to buy junk because they just can't afford to do otherwise.

If you think about it, it's rather convenient that the cheapest foods are those which contain all the worst things out on the market these days. It's an effective way to render such people obese and prone to health problems, and the neurotoxins dull their minds to a point they can't or won't find productive and meaningful work.

Children living under such conditions don't have a chance.

I would argue that the key difference is not just cost but knowledge and awareness. One thing I've noticed in poor households is they don't read they watch Tee Bee.

I am very frugal on my grocery budget and yet eat, not perfect, a much better diet than most "poor" people and spend less per head.

Foods that are Cheap and Nutritious:

Beans and Lentils

Whole Grains - Wheat, Spelt, White Corn (all yellow corn is now essentially all GMO whether intentionally or resulting from pollen contamination), Brown Rice, Quinoa, Amaranth, Teff, etc., .... There are a lot of varieties now available in this category.

Fresh and frozen vegetables (but you have to choose carefully)

Fresh Fruit (in season - again you have to choose carefully)

A limited amount of ORGANIC dairy. (I am not an anti-dairy nut, but do agree that excessive use of dairy is not healthy.)

Not Cheap but healthy and smaller portions used wisely are better than the protein rich American Diet:

Grass Fed Beef (Grass fed is higher in the good things from beef such as Omega 3&6 Fatty acids - Stearic Acid in particular, and Cattle fed on a grass/alfalfa diet eliminate E. Coli from their systems in about 3 days - per study).

Free Range Chicken (or at least not caged in Chicken Factories that promote disease).

I've enjoyed cooking since I was a teenager and have just accumulated a lot from little bits and pieces over time. I try to buy and eat healthy, and cheap, and of course I keep an organic vegetable and herb garden.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-10-10   14:20:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: FormerLurker (#28)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-10-10   14:21:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Eric Stratton (#27)

To me the issue is about how other people use our money!

Yours and mine.

If the Government had its own money, then great. But it doesn't. Their money is our money.

Well I'd say we should start with eliminating the billions upon billions of dollars of welfare for Israel, and any other form of welfare we dish out to foreign nations.

Till then, I say allow the poor to buy Lay's potato chips if they so desire.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   14:22:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: FormerLurker (#30)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-10-10   14:23:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: FormerLurker (#35)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-10-10   14:25:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: FormerLurker (#35)

Till then, I say allow the poor to buy Lay's potato chips if they so desire.

Under 0bamaCare their increased blood pressure, caused by excessive starch, sugars and salts creating high blood pressure, heart attacks, kidney failure and associated physical ailments are all covered.

Thanks a lot.

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo  posted on  2010-10-10   14:27:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Eric Stratton (#34)

No. I've quit and been jobless however.

Yes, that safety net is friends and family, not others' friends and family.

Not everybody is as fortunate as you. There are those whose parents have died or are surviving on bare minimum sustenance, and who don't have any brothers or sisters.

People who have moved to find work out of state find it difficult to pack up their belongings to go back to their original hometown, where not only is there not any work, but they can't afford to pay for moving and don't have the money for a security deposit.

It must be nice to come from a large family who have money.

Myself, when I was laid off almost a decade ago I was getting less than half from unemployment what my normal pay would have been. When that ran out, I had no choice but to collect assistance, as I had to find a way to support my family, and a $6 an hour job at McD's just wasn't going to do that.

After many years of struggling, I was able to find work and have been working since.

I would have much prefered to stay working that entire time, it really sucks being poor.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   14:39:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: buckeroo (#38)

Under 0bamaCare their increased blood pressure, caused by excessive starch, sugars and salts creating high blood pressure, heart attacks, kidney failure and associated physical ailments are all covered.

Well if we stopped giving out welfare to Israel, and if we stopped greedy megacorporations from escaping the US tax system by moving their operations overseas, while at the same time employing slave labor and children as young as 8 or 10 years old, perhaps we'd be in better shape overall.

With more jobs here, there'd be less people forced to eat dirt cheap food, since they'd be gainfully employed rather than surviving on bare minimum, or less.

As far as Obamacare, I've never agreed with it. If waste and fraud (how much is it for an aspirin at a hospital, $30 or more a pill?) were eliminated or at least reduced, existing health care plans would cover what is necessary.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   14:44:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Eric Stratton (#36)

Those people buy junkfood because they're irresponsible or lazy.

Ok, you have $5 left for the month, it's the 22nd of October say. Now what are you going to buy to feed yourself and two children, as an example? From what I've seen, families get about a half month's worth of groceries in the form of food stamps, eating healthy.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   14:48:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Eric Stratton (#37)

Arguing about shit like this detracts from the real argument of slashing the FedGov by a good 75% to bring it back into the realm of reason.

I just can't understand how you or anyone else could get so worked up over the tiny fraction of tax dollars that find their way to poor people here in the US, where TRILLIONS of dollars have been doled out to the megarich bankers and corporate CEOS, along with the yearly tribute to Israel to the tune of several billion dollars.

What is spent on food stamps is a very tiny insignificant drop in the bucket in comparison.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   14:53:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Eric Stratton (#34)

Otherwise, fine, a "safety net" is 3 months, not two years with all kinds of incentives to milk the system.

The problem is right now, despite the cooked numbers and "Rosey Scenario" being put forth by the Feral Government the actual unemployment rate is at Great Depression levels of about 25%. There are no jobs to replace the ones lost. It is all well and good to say "if you don't work you don't eat", but what do you say when there is NO work and government regulation makes is difficult at best to start your own business?

So, the option is soup lines and people living in alleys or Extended Unemployment Benefits (which have run out for many).

I am not a big fan of government hand-outs, but this is one time it makes sense as otherwise the millions out of work and on the streets would be driving crime and death from starvation through the roof.

That it is a created event does not change that reality.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-10-10   14:55:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: FormerLurker (#40)

What you don't seem to realise by Bloomberg's request is that if certain people are under a welfare program by state administered funds such as the USDA Foodstamp program then the state has the power to enforce those same people on a strict diet; that is to say: the recipients must eat healthy using government funded mandates.

In California, apparently the foodstamp program is provided by periodic or otherwise renewed "debit cards"; and the abuse is rampant. Folks go to Hawaii, and use them, piles of folks goto LasVegas, NV and all kinds of other entertainment centers to use those same designed limited-use debit cards. These same folks have shown a sense of irresponsibility, as is obvious.

In this particular case, I agree with Bloomberg. If the welfare recipients don't like the rules for their support, they can get off the subsidy altogether and get their asses to work ... picking grapes, washing cars, mowing lawns ... whatever they can constructively do.

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo  posted on  2010-10-10   14:57:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: FormerLurker, Eric Stratton, all (#42)

What is spent on food stamps is a very tiny insignificant drop in the bucket in comparison.

Precisely. The difference is orderS of magnitude. It is a couple billion versus 16 to 17 TRILLION which is a thousand billion times 16 to 17. More than the entire GDP, about 13 Trillion in current dollars, of the ENTIRE United States for one year.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-10-10   14:58:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: buckeroo (#0)

I know some people on food stamps, and the rules are a litle odd. For one thing, hot food cannot be bought. The next day, if the fried chicken is cold, you can buy it. No hot coffee, but cold tea. No nachos if you put hot cheese on them.

The talk is that candy, ice cream, etc., are going to be removed from eligibility.

"If ever this vast country is brought under a single government, it will be one of the most extensive corruption, indifferent and incapable of a wholesome care over so wide a spread of surface. This will not be borne, and you will have to choose between reform and revolution. If I know the spirit of this country, the one or the other is inevitable." - Thomas Jefferson

Turtle  posted on  2010-10-10   15:01:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: buckeroo (#44)

What you don't seem to realise by Bloomberg's request is that if certain people are under a welfare program by state administered funds such as the USDA Foodstamp program then the state has the power to enforce those same people on a strict diet; that is to say: the recipients must eat healthy using government funded mandates.

While I agree in principle, it's the fact that NY wishes the recipients to switch from relatively healthy foods containing sugar, to toxic ones containing Aspartame and high fructose corn syrup.

Hell, I don't know what they mean by "sugar sweetened" soft drinks, there aren't any. There are natural juices, and naturally sweetened lemonade, do they mean those as well?

Or is it that they just mistook HFCS as "sugar", and they insist everybody ingests Aspartame spiked beverages?

It's the matter of being forced to eat that which will cause you and your family to become sick and develop chronic health problems. The only people who benefit here are the ones with financial interests in Big Pharma and healthcare.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   15:04:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: FormerLurker (#47)

The only people who benefit here are the ones with financial interests in Big Pharma and healthcare.

"We have a WINNER Johnny!"

"Now tell him what he's won ..."

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-10-10   15:07:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Turtle (#46)

The idea of "hot food" is that it is a prepared presentation which (of course) incurs costs to the welfare recipient's monthly allotment. The goal of welfare food stamps is for the recipient to prepare their own food at home with common sense ingredients about nutritional value for their own families, thus improving their own lives.

I like what you said. I want a maximum of common-sense restrictions on awards to people in need whole ensuring a maximum of societal benefits. And, if the recipients don't like it ... FUCK 'em.

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo  posted on  2010-10-10   15:08:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: buckeroo (#44)

These same folks have shown a sense of irresponsibility

I appreciate that joke, buckeroo talking about people being irresponsible.

buckeroo's never been irresopnsible. the people who engaged in derivatives trade thus causing toxic assets and requiring billions or trillions in bailouts were not irresponsible. etc etc etc

our government spends a ton of money on people being irresopnsible. Being irresponsible is normal. why do you single out the poor in this concern of yours'?

maybe those people from California who spent their food stamp cards in Las Vegas or Hawaii were staying with relatives in those states.

Las Vegas has a ton of poor people in it who cannot find jobs. and for people who try to get jobs at casinos where union membership is required, they find that only mexicans are allowed to join the union.

so these jobs you speak of are not always available to the poor.

Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-10-10   15:12:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: FormerLurker (#47)

While I agree in principle, it's the fact that NY wishes the recipients to switch from relatively healthy foods containing sugar, to toxic ones containing Aspartame and high fructose corn syrup.

That isn't true. The goal is to declassify sodapop and associated "food" products from a list of "food sources" that contain inordinate amounts of sugar or substitutes.

You are not watching the issue, at all, but thinking about surreal replacements can be used and is state government sponsored. That is farther from the truth.

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo  posted on  2010-10-10   15:13:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Red Jones, buckeroo (#50)

I see lots of people on food stamps at the local store. They buy ice cream and candy on their food card, and at the same time buy cigarettes and beer with cash.

I asked one clerk how much of their business is food cards, and he said one- third.

"If ever this vast country is brought under a single government, it will be one of the most extensive corruption, indifferent and incapable of a wholesome care over so wide a spread of surface. This will not be borne, and you will have to choose between reform and revolution. If I know the spirit of this country, the one or the other is inevitable." - Thomas Jefferson

Turtle  posted on  2010-10-10   15:15:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Turtle, Red Jones, buckeroo (#52)

I see lots of people on food stamps at the local store. They buy ice cream and candy on their food card, and at the same time buy cigarettes and beer with cash.

I asked one clerk how much of their business is food cards, and he said one- third.

We all know I'm anti regulation but the government, like everyone else, has the right to say how its money is spent. Controlled by the will of the people of course. We have already said that the "sin" of cigarettes and alcohol can not be supported with food stamps. I don't have a problem with restrictions on other indulgences. I don't have a problem with cookies and ice cream as those technically can be made at home. Soda on the other hand...


"Every Person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.
Senator Jacob Howard, Co-author of the citizenship clause of the 14th Amendment, 1866.

farmfriend  posted on  2010-10-10   15:21:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Red Jones (#50)

buckeroo (in post#44): In California, apparently the foodstamp program is provided by periodic or otherwise renewed "debit cards"; and the abuse is rampant. Folks go to Hawaii, and use them, piles of folks goto LasVegas, NV and all kinds of other entertainment centers to use those same designed limited-use debit cards. These same folks have shown a sense of irresponsibility, as is obvious.

Red Jones (in response): maybe those people from California who spent their food stamp cards in Las Vegas or Hawaii were staying with relatives in those states.

Las Vegas has a ton of poor people in it who cannot find jobs. and for people who try to get jobs at casinos where union membership is required, they find that only mexicans are allowed to join the union.

Learn to read. But it is interesting you like all your friends from South of the Border to invade America, illegally. Correct?

How much money do they receive in Arizona from US government give-aways because they have so-called anchor babies?

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo  posted on  2010-10-10   15:21:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Original_Intent (#33) (Edited)

Whole Grains - Wheat, Spelt, White Corn (all yellow corn is now essentially all GMO whether intentionally or resulting from pollen contamination), Brown Rice, Quinoa, Amaranth, Teff, etc., .... There are a lot of varieties now available in this category.

I have to disagree on a couple of those. While EXTREMELY nutritious, Quinoa and brown rice are usually more expensive than the dirt cheap white rice.

Never saw Amaranth or Teff, didn't even know they were foods.

The rest of what you say is quite true, where if one does the research and buys the most wholesome ingredients, and takes the time to prepare them, then it's possible to eat healthy with a comparable amount of money than what it takes to buy the average junk food.

Thing is, it's impossible to buy any of that for less what what it costs to buy a huge box of Ramen.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   15:25:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: buckeroo (#51)

That isn't true. The goal is to declassify sodapop and associated "food" products from a list of "food sources" that contain inordinate amounts of sugar or substitutes.

Well I'd need more info, but the article was suggesting it was only SUGAR sweetened "soft drinks" that were going to be prohibited.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   15:27:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Original_Intent (#33)

Grass Fed Beef (Grass fed is higher in the good things from beef such as Omega 3&6 Fatty acids - Stearic Acid in particular, and Cattle fed on a grass/alfalfa diet eliminate E. Coli from their systems in about 3 days - per study).

That I've only seen online for like $20 or more a pound, never seen it at a market.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   15:28:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: FormerLurker, buckeroo, Original_Intent (#56)

Well I'd need more info, but the article was suggesting it was only SUGAR sweetened "soft drinks" that were going to be prohibited.

Which leads to the question about which soft drinks and which sugar. As we all know it is HFCS that is the real problem, not the soda. Will they also ban throw backs, the recent introduction of soft drinks made with real sugar.

And what about the other products containing HFCS. Why the focus on soda alone? And what are the odds Pepsi and Coke will allow this?


"Every Person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.
Senator Jacob Howard, Co-author of the citizenship clause of the 14th Amendment, 1866.

farmfriend  posted on  2010-10-10   15:30:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: buckeroo (#51)

That isn't true. The goal is to declassify sodapop and associated "food" products from a list of "food sources" that contain inordinate amounts of sugar or substitutes.

Here's what the article says in black and white...

New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg has requested that the USDA permit his city to engage in a two year experimental program whereby recipients of food stamps – issued by the USDA- would be banned from using the government food assistance program for the purchase of sugar-sweetened beverages.

It implies that drinks using artificial sweeteners, such as Aspartame, would not be affected by the prohibition.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   15:32:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: farmfriend (#58)

Which leads to the question about which soft drinks and which sugar. As we all know it is HFCS that is the real problem, not the soda. Will they also ban throw backs, the recent introduction of soft drinks made with real sugar.

And what about the other products containing HFCS. Why the focus on soda alone? And what are the odds Pepsi and Coke will allow this?

Excellent questions.

If anything, ALL HFCS and Aspartame products should be banned. Of course the megafood corporations might have something to say about it...


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   15:34:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: farmfriend, Turtle, Red Jones, Original_Intent, A K A Stone (#53)

Today, as for my late afternoon soft palate delight to serve my family: lean porkchops peppered and inundated with olives, creamy white (cream) wine mushrooms (bell peppers from my raised bed backyard garden) and a bit of cheese sticks on the side.

A small salad is on the side ... and afterwords not much more than a taste of frozen raspberry yogurt for desert.

Of course, since I am not a Muslim I am having friends over that enjoy in a stiff drink or two beyond the pork chops.

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo  posted on  2010-10-10   15:37:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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