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Health
See other Health Articles

Title: Tea Party Boils Over Proposed NYC Ban On Sugar Drinks
Source: Forbes
URL Source: http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2 ... posed-nyc-ban-on-sugar-drinks/
Published: Oct 9, 2010
Author: staff
Post Date: 2010-10-09 21:19:52 by buckeroo
Keywords: None
Views: 2138
Comments: 121

You can just feel the pressure building inside the teapot.

New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg has requested that the USDA permit his city to engage in a two year experimental program whereby recipients of food stamps – issued by the USDA- would be banned from using the government food assistance program for the purchase of sugar-sweetened beverages.

The test program, which would apply to 1.7 million of NYC’s 8 million residents, would seek to discover whether the denial of these unhealthy substances will have a measurable effect on skyrocketing obesity rates, particularly among the nation’s poor.

Not surprisingly, those who warn of big government sticking its nose into every facet of our lives are going crazy.

If bureaucrats can tell a segment of the population that they can’t drink soft drinks, what’s next? Is it only a matter of time until the government prohibits us from eating hamburgers and hot dogs? Will apple pie, a favorite desert loaded with unhealthy sugars, cease to be the symbol of good, old fashioned American values once the government puts pies and cakes on its hit list?

While it is not difficult to see the point made by those in opposition to this sort of government interference and restriction, it would be wise for everyone to take a deep breath and gain a better understanding of what we are talking about before blowing our collective stacks.

There is no question but that sugary soft drinks play a substantial role in our growing obesity problem, particularly among children. There is also little disagreement that obesity leads to increased cases of type II diabetes, heart disease and any number of illnesses that present as obese children grow into adulthood.

We also know that for some of these children and adults, the medical treatment they will require to deal with these illnesses throughout their lives will be provided courtesy of state and federal safety net programs paid for with taxpayer money.

That means that you and I will be paying not only for the care and treatment of the illnesses brought on by these poor nutritional habits for years to come, but are already paying for the very nutritional practices that bring on the disease in the first place.

What we have here is one big exercise in enabling – and it simply doesn’t make sense.

Still, there are those vigorously arguing that imposing this sort of restriction means that rich people are free to destroy their bodies however they choose while the poor would be denied the same right to do the same.

I don’t think this is true.

For starters, New York City would not be telling food stamp recipients that they are prohibited from enjoying a Coke and a smile. Rather, the city would be temporarily requiring that those receiving aid, at the pleasure and expense of the American taxpayer, pay for that Coke out of their own pocket rather than with the food stamps we provide them.

There is a huge difference between telling Americans what they may eat and drink when they are spending their own money versus telling citizens they are free to destroy their health with their food choices when the taxpayer is picking up the tab for the menu. This is particularly true when beneficiaries of the government programs make nutritional choices that virtually guarantee that they will be repaying the favor by forcing the taxpayers to pick up even larger bills down the road for the expensive health problems their choices are likely to cause.

However, such logic will not stop some from continuing to argue that if an American wants to drink paint and suffer the consequences, such behavior is both their prerogative and their right in a free country.

Maybe. But while I can appreciate that one who chooses to buy a Twinkie with their hard earned cash doesn’t need me to put in my two cents as to the intelligence of such a decision, when that individual elects to accept food stamps, paid for and provided by the American taxpayer, a different sort of bargain is struck.

It is no longer a matter of our sticking our nose into that individual’s business. It becomes a matter of our protecting our collective investment so that the money we have available to help out those in need can reach more people with similar needs.

It is simply not reasonable for food stamp recipients to ignore the fact that allowing expenditures of the people’s money on food that we know is likely to create or contribute to expensive, lifelong illnesses- illnesses the public may well be responsible to pay for – takes away from our collective ability to help others in need. It’s selfish and it’s wrong.

Shouldn’t these beneficiaries have the same concern for others who find themselves in a difficult economic situation that the rest of us express by providing our tax dollars to help them out in tough times?

When people fail to behave in a mature and reasonable manner, reflective of the reality of their circumstances, is it really so wrong for the government to step in and require them to do so in order to protect the rest of the public who will suffer from the behavior of those who should know better?

I don’t think so. And to all those whose immediate reaction is to cry foul, shouldn’t you consider the government’s obligation to protect our taxpayer money so that we get the biggest bang for each of our bucks?

Government has a legitimate interest and obligation to protect our tax dollars. Further, taxpayers cannot shout about ‘big government’ wasting our money from one side of their collective mouth and then shout from the other when the government attempts to rein in behavior that does waste our money or, at least, fails to put it to its best use.

A decent society has an obligation to do what it can for the least fortunate among us just as the least fortunate among us have an obligation to use good and mature judgment when accepting our contributions to their welfare. Government’s willingness to require the beneficiaries of our assistance to use those benefits in a way that will not contribute to even greater taxpayer expense only makes sense.

Those on the right should not allow ideology to get in the way of allowing the government to do the smart thing.

As for those on the left, we would do well to recall the old saying about not biting the hand that feeds you. It is fundamentally wrong for those accepting the help of the American public to pay it forward and back by ignoring proper nutrition, thereby causing the public that helps them to assume even larger expenses down the road.

This is not a matter of of human dignity, respect or rights. It is a matter of a basic level of maturity that we have a right to expect.

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#1. To: All (#0)

Report: 1 in 3 Americans Obese, U.S. Is Fattest Nation

A report released yesterday by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) lists the U.S. and Mexico as the most obese nations of 33 countries studied. According to the report, 34% of Americans are obese--defined as 30 pounds or more overweight--and another 34% are overweight. The OECD projects that 3 out of 4 Americans will be overweight or obese within 10 years.

The report--"Obesity and the Economics of Prevention: Fit not Fat"--was released in advance of a worldwide health summit to be held October 7-8 in Paris.

The OECD recommends cooperation between governments and the private sector to combat the problem. A prevention strategy combining health promotion campaigns, government regulation and counseling by family doctors would prevent hundreds of thousands of deaths each year, the organization says. It estimates the cost of a successful prevention effort to be between $10 and $30 per person.

The most obese nations according to the OECD report:

1. United States 2. Mexico 3. Chile 4. New Zealand 5. United Kingdom

The least obese nations:

1. Japan 2. Korea 3. Switzerland 4. Norway 5. Italy

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo  posted on  2010-10-09   21:23:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: buckeroo (#0)

Let them buy all the garbage they chose to ingest and die sooner, is another way to look at it.

Lod  posted on  2010-10-09   21:31:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: buckeroo (#0)

New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg has requested that the USDA permit his city to engage in a two year experimental program whereby recipients of food stamps – issued by the USDA- would be banned from using the government food assistance program for the purchase of sugar-sweetened beverages.

The test program, which would apply to 1.7 million of NYC’s 8 million residents, would seek to discover whether the denial of these unhealthy substances will have a measurable effect on skyrocketing obesity rates, particularly among the nation’s poor.

Right, they'd rather poison everyone with high fructose corn syrup and Aspartame. It'll do the exact opposite of what is claimed, where it's been proven that HFCS CAUSES obesity, and Aspartame becomes additictive causing the person to drink MORE "soft drinks" and other such junk.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-09   21:35:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: buckeroo (#0)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-10-09   21:43:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Eric Stratton (#4)

And hey, if you're going to have Uncle Sambo bail you out, then yeah, you may be under your master's rules!!! Otherwise get a fugging job, start a business, or otherwise get off your fat lazy ass and don't use FSs paid for by your neighbors and fellow citizens!!

Many people on food stamps ARE hard working moms and dads who are struggling to pay the rent, the utilites, keep up with the other bills, and keep enough gas in the car so that they can get to work.

For many people, their income has gone down while the cost of living has gone up. A lot of them have been laid off, their jobs sent overseas, or filled by those who come here to take jobs "Americans don't want to do", like software/electrical engineering, mechanical engineering, etc.

Of course there are the career welfare cases, but not everyone on FS fall into that category. Have you ever fallen on hard times yourself, or have you always been showered with money?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   0:42:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: FormerLurker (#5)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-10-10   0:54:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: FormerLurker (#5) (Edited)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-10-10   0:57:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Eric Stratton (#6)

Perhaps, but even so, purchases should be very limited. Anyone on food stamps that has enough money for crap food doesn't need food stamps, plain and simple!!

And who will be the judge and arbitrator of what constitutes junk? Myself, I'd make all foods containing HFCS, artificial food coloring, Aspartame, MSG, and other such toxins off limits.

Only food sweetened with natural sugar would be allowed, so that means 99% of the ketchup, barbeque sauce, frozen dinners, Hamburger Helper, soda, Ramen Noodles, and other such junk would be banned.

As far as food in general goes, all that would be left is generally beyond the reach of most people who are counting their pennies to see if they can afford a gallon of milk.

Quality food is expensive, where avoiding junk food is extremely hard to do on a limited budget.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   1:06:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: FormerLurker (#8) (Edited)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-10-10   1:19:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: FormerLurker (#8) (Edited)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-10-10   1:21:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Eric Stratton (#9)

As I've said, it takes more than two hands for me to count the number of people that I've seen check out with FS over the years that had their carts full of shit like twinkies, junk food, soda, candy, etc., etc.

Junk food is usually much cheaper than the good stuff, and kills hunger.

Again, I do not believe, since I've never had FSs, that one can purchase those things with FS, but that's my point. If those people have enough money to buy that shit, which is expensive relative to other foods and certainly for whatever nutrition it provides, then IMO they don't f'ing need food stamps now, do they? At least not all of them.

The thing is, they DON'T have enough money to buy the nutritious foods, so they just buy what they can afford. I believe a family of three gets about $300 or so a month.

Could YOU and YOUR family live on that much food per month, every month?

Either way, the way to do it is to put on the list fresh fruits, veggies, even canned/frozen fruits/veggies, certain meats (i.e., not fillet mignon), certain dairy, breads, etc. Then people can choose from that.

Again, those things are typically much more expensive, require more expense in preparation, etc.

I get what you're saying to a degree, but thing is, once their food stamps are gone for the month, they're gone, no matter what they end up buying with them.

If they feel the need to survive on twinkies, Ritz crackers, and peanut butter, then more than likely it's because that's all they can afford.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   2:48:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Eric Stratton (#9)

I'd much rather see the FedGov helping out Americans in need than giving billions of dollars away each year to the likes of Israel and other countries which are attached to us like leeches.

I really don't give a shit what happens to Israelis, we need to worry about our own people before we can dole out billions of dollars each year to the filthy rich, be they foreign nations or corporate big shots.

We're arguing whether poor people should be allowed to drink Coca Cola, while we give Exxon, BP, and the filthest richest bastards on this planet billions of dollars each year, just because they demand it.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   2:54:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Eric Stratton (#9) (Edited)

Again, I do not believe, since I've never had FSs, that one can purchase those things with FS,

They can buy any food item they want with food stamps, and that includes what you listed.

They can't buy prepared foods like store made salads or anything that carries a meal tax.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   2:55:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: buckeroo (#0)

The teabaggers, and Republicans generally, are down on food stamps and will be glad to tell stories of seeing someone use food stamps to buy booze (which is completely forbidden). So why should they object if food stamps are restricted a tad to prevent being spent on one of the most ubiquitous forms of bad food?

Shoonra  posted on  2010-10-10   8:28:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: FormerLurker (#11)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-10-10   8:30:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: FormerLurker (#12)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-10-10   8:34:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: FormerLurker (#13)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-10-10   8:36:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: buckeroo (#1)

when i went to France i noticed very few fat, chubby, or obese people. a lot of smokers everywhere though. soda is very expensive there though. they dont drink it at all like we do here. that may be one reason.

"if I have all faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing." 1 Cor 12:31—13:13
"I don't know where Bin Laden is. I truly am not that concerned about him"
George W, Bush, 3/13/02 http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html

Artisan  posted on  2010-10-10   12:04:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Eric Stratton (#16)

BTW, you don't think that the Coca-Cola company gets its share of "favors" from FedGov like the others you've cited? Come on now!

Of course they do. And the companies producing the high fructose corn syrup profit from not just Coca Cola, but virtually every soft drink, many juices, and condiments such as ketchup, sweet pickles, barbeque sauce, and other such things.

Even though there was no good reason to transition from natural sugar, other than the invalid premise that natural sugar is bad and artifical sweeteners are good, Americans have been forced to consume HFCS as there really aren't many other choices unless one buys nothing but all natural or organic versions of such items, which are not always easy to find and cost at least twice as much.

For a few months they had "throwback" versions of Pepsi and Mountain Dew, where they were made with sugar instead of HFCS. They did cost the same, and tasted better, but were only on the shelves for a limited time.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   13:41:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Eric Stratton (#17)

This gravy-train ride that this nation's been on is nearly over as people continue to seek economic redress from their new master(s) instead of kicking the beast in the balls and telling it to be on its merry way and starting over the way things should be. We are so fucked!

I think many people who have been laid off would rather be working than collecting assistance, but have been so demoralized they have no intent or ambition to march on Washington and demand we stop exporting jobs to China and elsewhere.

Not only do they lack the ability to organize such a march, they are so broke they're worrying about whether they can afford to eat from day to day, never mind travelling to DC to participate in a march, as if that would even do any good.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   13:45:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: FormerLurker (#19)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-10-10   13:48:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Eric Stratton (#15)

And no, junk food is not cheaper, it's more expensive. Go price a typical 9 oz. bag of chips for example, or a box of twinkies. Nutrition = zero.

Sweets can kill hunger, and a box of twinkies cost less than buying enough hamburg and buns to feed the same amount of people.

Ramen noodles is one of the worst things you can buy in terms of MSG and artificial flavors, yet it's so cheap many poor people buy it to have something other than twinkies to eat.

As far as chips, a huge bag of chips can be bought for a dollar or so.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   13:48:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: FormerLurker (#20)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-10-10   13:50:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Eric Stratton (#21)

Don't know when the discussion turned to HFCS, but I think those are still available now in our area. Have been for a couple of months.

The original article is concerning how NY wants to ban any food that contains natural sugar. It didn't say they wanted to eliminate soda or other items which contain HFCS or Aspartame, in fact, it seems they're demanding that's what people consume.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   13:51:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: FormerLurker (#22) (Edited)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-10-10   13:53:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Eric Stratton (#23)

I spoke to a recruiter for a company that had offered a guy a job who replied by asking if he could start in 6 weeks so that he could run out his string of unemployment. Talk about balls! She had considered retracting the offer.

I've known people who had been out of work for years, who sent out resumes each day, who called each recruiter they could find, yet couldn't find work, not even getting called in for an interview.

And these were people who had decades of experience in various areas of software engineering.

Luckily, they found steady employment several years ago, but they had to survive on almost nothing at all for quite some time.

There will always be those who choose to milk the system, but not every person collecting is doing so because they want to, many are forced to take what they can get in order to feed themselves and their families, and keep some sort of roof over their heads.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   13:55:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: FormerLurker (#24)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-10-10   13:56:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Eric Stratton (#25)

Agree to disagree. But then you also shouldn't have much trouble with many other entitlement program stuff, like unemployment and the way that's administered.

Have you ever been laid off? There has to be some sort of safety net in order to prevent anarchy.

If there were no such safety net, people would resort to whatever desperate means they could dream up in order to survive, and that includes robbery, theft, and other criminal activities.

The filthy rich got their start that way, and by being super cheap and greedy, built up their fortunes over the centuries of time.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   13:58:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: FormerLurker (#3)

New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg has requested that the USDA permit his city to engage in a two year experimental program whereby recipients of food stamps – issued by the USDA- would be banned from using the government food assistance program for the purchase of sugar-sweetened beverages.

The test program, which would apply to 1.7 million of NYC’s 8 million residents, would seek to discover whether the denial of these unhealthy substances will have a measurable effect on skyrocketing obesity rates, particularly among the nation’s poor.

Right, they'd rather poison everyone with high fructose corn syrup and Aspartame. It'll do the exact opposite of what is claimed, where it's been proven that HFCS CAUSES obesity, and Aspartame becomes additictive causing the person to drink MORE "soft drinks" and other such junk.

Wanna really piss off Big Pharma and Big Fuud?

Put aspartame and HFCS on the cannot buy list.

It would be a very healthy thing to do, but those two products generate a lot of profit for ADM and Big Pharma.

Actually between sugar and aspartame, aspartame is MUCH more toxic and has many more adverse health affects.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-10-10   13:59:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Eric Stratton (#27)

If I'm paying for someone else's groceries, then IMO they should be getting the biggest bang for their buck in terms of nutrition, cost, etc. You obviously disagree.

I don't disagree, yet they are forced to buy junk because they just can't afford to do otherwise.

If you think about it, it's rather convenient that the cheapest foods are those which contain all the worst things out on the market these days. It's an effective way to render such people obese and prone to health problems, and the neurotoxins dull their minds to a point they can't or won't find productive and meaningful work.

Children living under such conditions don't have a chance.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   14:02:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Original_Intent (#29)

Wanna really piss off Big Pharma and Big Fuud?

Put aspartame and HFCS on the cannot buy list.

Now THAT would be something I would fully support.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   14:02:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Artisan (#18)

when i went to France i noticed very few fat, chubby, or obese people. a lot of smokers everywhere though. soda is very expensive there though. they dont drink it at all like we do here. that may be one reason.

Interestingly France also has a lower rate of heart disease than the U.S. despite higher rates of smoking. Ditto Japan.

The key difference would seem to be diet.

The French drink a lot of red wine which tends to keep blockages from forming.

The Japanese eat more fish and vegetables, beef is verrrry expensive in Japan, and so their leaner, higher in Omega 3 and 6 fatty acids, diet is much more heart healthy.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-10-10   14:04:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: FormerLurker (#30)

If I'm paying for someone else's groceries, then IMO they should be getting the biggest bang for their buck in terms of nutrition, cost, etc. You obviously disagree.

I don't disagree, yet they are forced to buy junk because they just can't afford to do otherwise.

If you think about it, it's rather convenient that the cheapest foods are those which contain all the worst things out on the market these days. It's an effective way to render such people obese and prone to health problems, and the neurotoxins dull their minds to a point they can't or won't find productive and meaningful work.

Children living under such conditions don't have a chance.

I would argue that the key difference is not just cost but knowledge and awareness. One thing I've noticed in poor households is they don't read they watch Tee Bee.

I am very frugal on my grocery budget and yet eat, not perfect, a much better diet than most "poor" people and spend less per head.

Foods that are Cheap and Nutritious:

Beans and Lentils

Whole Grains - Wheat, Spelt, White Corn (all yellow corn is now essentially all GMO whether intentionally or resulting from pollen contamination), Brown Rice, Quinoa, Amaranth, Teff, etc., .... There are a lot of varieties now available in this category.

Fresh and frozen vegetables (but you have to choose carefully)

Fresh Fruit (in season - again you have to choose carefully)

A limited amount of ORGANIC dairy. (I am not an anti-dairy nut, but do agree that excessive use of dairy is not healthy.)

Not Cheap but healthy and smaller portions used wisely are better than the protein rich American Diet:

Grass Fed Beef (Grass fed is higher in the good things from beef such as Omega 3&6 Fatty acids - Stearic Acid in particular, and Cattle fed on a grass/alfalfa diet eliminate E. Coli from their systems in about 3 days - per study).

Free Range Chicken (or at least not caged in Chicken Factories that promote disease).

I've enjoyed cooking since I was a teenager and have just accumulated a lot from little bits and pieces over time. I try to buy and eat healthy, and cheap, and of course I keep an organic vegetable and herb garden.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-10-10   14:20:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: FormerLurker (#28)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-10-10   14:21:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Eric Stratton (#27)

To me the issue is about how other people use our money!

Yours and mine.

If the Government had its own money, then great. But it doesn't. Their money is our money.

Well I'd say we should start with eliminating the billions upon billions of dollars of welfare for Israel, and any other form of welfare we dish out to foreign nations.

Till then, I say allow the poor to buy Lay's potato chips if they so desire.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   14:22:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: FormerLurker (#30)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-10-10   14:23:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: FormerLurker (#35)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-10-10   14:25:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: FormerLurker (#35)

Till then, I say allow the poor to buy Lay's potato chips if they so desire.

Under 0bamaCare their increased blood pressure, caused by excessive starch, sugars and salts creating high blood pressure, heart attacks, kidney failure and associated physical ailments are all covered.

Thanks a lot.

"we ought to lay off the criticism" -- Pinguinite, circa 2010-05-26 22:17:22 ET

buckeroo  posted on  2010-10-10   14:27:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Eric Stratton (#34)

No. I've quit and been jobless however.

Yes, that safety net is friends and family, not others' friends and family.

Not everybody is as fortunate as you. There are those whose parents have died or are surviving on bare minimum sustenance, and who don't have any brothers or sisters.

People who have moved to find work out of state find it difficult to pack up their belongings to go back to their original hometown, where not only is there not any work, but they can't afford to pay for moving and don't have the money for a security deposit.

It must be nice to come from a large family who have money.

Myself, when I was laid off almost a decade ago I was getting less than half from unemployment what my normal pay would have been. When that ran out, I had no choice but to collect assistance, as I had to find a way to support my family, and a $6 an hour job at McD's just wasn't going to do that.

After many years of struggling, I was able to find work and have been working since.

I would have much prefered to stay working that entire time, it really sucks being poor.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   14:39:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: buckeroo (#38)

Under 0bamaCare their increased blood pressure, caused by excessive starch, sugars and salts creating high blood pressure, heart attacks, kidney failure and associated physical ailments are all covered.

Well if we stopped giving out welfare to Israel, and if we stopped greedy megacorporations from escaping the US tax system by moving their operations overseas, while at the same time employing slave labor and children as young as 8 or 10 years old, perhaps we'd be in better shape overall.

With more jobs here, there'd be less people forced to eat dirt cheap food, since they'd be gainfully employed rather than surviving on bare minimum, or less.

As far as Obamacare, I've never agreed with it. If waste and fraud (how much is it for an aspirin at a hospital, $30 or more a pill?) were eliminated or at least reduced, existing health care plans would cover what is necessary.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2010-10-10   14:44:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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