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Title: October 11th, 2010 CONFIRMED: Court Did Rely on Oath Keeper Association to Take Baby
Source: oathkeepers.org
URL Source: http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2010/10 ... eper-association-to-take-baby/
Published: Oct 11, 2010
Author: not attributed
Post Date: 2010-10-11 19:53:40 by farmfriend
Ping List: *Jack-Booted Thugs*     Subscribe to *Jack-Booted Thugs*
Keywords: None
Views: 385
Comments: 38

October 11th, 2010

CONFIRMED: Court Did Rely on Oath Keeper Association to Take Baby

There has been some confusion about this case, leading some commentators to believe that the reference to John Irish’s “association” with Oath Keepers was in some other document, rather than in the affidavit relied on by the Court’s Order. Alex Jones’ site, in an effort to protect the privacy of the family, posted excerpts from two different documents, leading some to question where the reference actually was.

To clear that up, below you will find an embedded PDF which contains the full (though redacted) versions of the following documents: the two Petitions (one pertaining to each parent), the Court’s Ex Parte Order, the Affidavit of Dana Bickford which was attached, the Motion for Change of Venue, and lastly, the Notice to Accused Parent, explaining the legal process. We have highlighted in yellow all text where the Petitions or the Court Order refers to the Affidavit which contains reference to Oath Keepers.

By looking at the below documents, you will be able to see from the two Petitions, the Order, and Affidavit item #7, in that order, that:

1. Both Petitions state: “7. Details or Details or facts of abuse/neglect (attach separate sheet if necessary): See affidavit filed with the Concord Family Court.”

2. The Court’s Ex Parte Order states:

“Findings of Fact:

There is reasonable cause to believe that the child is in such circumstances or surroundings as would present an imminent danger to the child’s health or life, which require the immediate placement of the child for the following reasons:

See attached affidavit”

Thus, the Court’s Order does, in fact, refer to, and adopt all of the reasons given in the Affidavit as being the reasons for the order.

3. The Attached Affidavit, referenced by the Petitions and adopted by the Court as its findings of fact, includes, at #7: “The Division became aware and confirmed that Mr. Irish associated with a militia known as the, “Oath Keepers,” and had purchased several different types of weapons, including a rifle, handgun and taser.”

This is how all such petitions are done. The same goes for a restraining order. The petition is supported by affidavit laying out the reasons, and then if the judge finds those reasons sufficient, he or she issues the order. Such orders always rely on the affidavit attached to the petition. And in this case, the Order explicitly states that the reasons in support are listed in the “attached affidavit.”

We have posted these documents with the permission of both parents, but we redacted (blacked out) all the personal information and allegations that do not pertain to Oath Keepers or gun ownership. This was done in part to respect the privacy of the family, including the kids. It is out of such concerns that family court proceedings are usually closed to the public and I think it would be improper to post the entirety of the affidavit for the same reason. If the parents choose to post a non-redacted version, they can do it themselves (we left in their address because they have given that information out in several interviews, asking for donations to their defense fund),

More to the point, we also blacked out the parts unrelated to Oath Keepers and to gun ownership because my focus in this case is on the illegitimate listing of a father’s political affiliations and his gun ownership as a reason to take his daughter away from him and also away from her mother. That the Court relied on an affidavit that explicitly lists the father’s association with Oath Keepers to issue that order makes it important to all ten thousand dues paying members of Oath Keepers (many of them current serving police and military), and also makes it important to the estimated thirty thousand people (and growing) who have “associated” with Oath Keepers in the past, or still do, on several social media sites, such as Facebook, Myspace, Twitter, on our email alert list, in the comments section of our main site, in our free state forums, or in person at our many meetings across the country, and the many additional tens of thousands who have “associated” with us at various rallies, summits, and forums across the nation.

This use of a father’s political association and his gun ownership is also important to many other Americans who don’t even associate with Oath Keepers because what happens in this case can impact the free speech and association rights of all of us, across the nation, of whatever political or social orientation. And that is why we must stand firm, now. Subscribe to *Jack-Booted Thugs*

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 16.

#3. To: farmfriend, lod, all (#0) (Edited)

Sorry FF, but i am not buying this.

Here's why:

"We have posted these documents with the permission of both parents, but we redacted (blacked out) all the personal information and allegations that do not pertain to Oath Keepers or gun ownership. This was done in part to respect the privacy of the family, including the kids. It is out of such concerns that family court proceedings are usually closed to the public and I think it would be improper to post the entirety of the affidavit for the same reason. "

Bullshit. Those "allegations" that he is hiding are why this was done in the first place. The asshole is latched onto this "its because he is in the oathkeepers" crap and is intentionally ignoring everything else, or rather he is intentionally forcing the reader to ignore everything else by hiding the info for dubious reasons.

"More to the point, we also blacked out the parts unrelated to Oath Keepers and to gun ownership because my focus in this case is on the illegitimate listing of a father’s political affiliations and his gun ownership as a reason to take his daughter away from him and also away from her mother."

And there he admits what I posted above as the reason this asshole is saying that this is all about "oathkeepers", and hiding the other aspects of the info provided.

Putting that "he;s an oathkeeper" info into the documents was stupid. But this attention whore is playing it for all it's worth, to the total self-admitted exclusion of everything else.

Lets wait and see what the real truth of the matter is. I bet it is completely different from what the OP is saying. This OP has the stench of bullshit all over it.

.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-10-11   20:30:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: PSUSA (#3)

Bullshit. Those "allegations" that he is hiding are why this was done in the first place. The asshole is latched onto this "its because he is in the oathkeepers" crap and is intentionally ignoring everything else, or rather he is intentionally forcing the reader to ignore everything else by hiding the info for dubious reasons.

Stewart is hiding it because we don't care about the other allegations. Did you actually read Stewart's post? Of course there are other reasons they took the baby. We are protesting the fact that Oathkeeper association was listed as a reason for taking the baby at all. Is he a scumbag? Possibly, but if he is enough of a scumbag that he needs kids taken away from him, why not throw him in jail?? All they are doing is punishing the baby girl by depriving her of her mother in the first critical days of life, when she needs to bond with the mother.

I feel like I am repeating what Stewart said to you. If he is a scumbag, he is an easy target. No one will care that we took his rights away. No one will care that now the groups and ideas you associate with can now be used against ANYONE, even if you are pure as the driven snow. We can take children away from anti abortion and homeschooling and anti illegal immigration people. Just call the groups "militias" and you get their kids.

Your thinking is not advanced enough to comprehend the concepts being debated. Just like Stewart says in the post, yeah, Padilla was a scumbag. He still gets his due process rights, because if they can deny him his rights, they can do it to you. That is the whole point.

echo5sierra  posted on  2010-10-11   21:20:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: echo5sierra (#4)

Stewart is hiding it because we don't care about the other allegations. Did you actually read Stewart's post? Of course there are other reasons they took the baby. We are protesting the fact that Oathkeeper association was listed as a reason for taking the baby at all.

That is a legit reason to protest. It should not have been a factor. I already said that putting this on the documents was stupid. I bet someone really f'd up by doing that.

But he is hiding, ---->hiding<---- the other reasonS why this is being done. Why is he HIDING it? You are acting like this was the only reason why this was done. He doesn't care about the other reasons why this was done, but anyone else should care why, because without that info, no one is getting the whole story.

We can take children away from anti abortion and homeschooling and anti illegal immigration people. Just call the groups "militias" and you get their kids.

No. You don't just get the kids.

There are other reasons listed. Those reasons were redacted by the OK .org. It was done to hide the real reasons.

If this OK membership was the only reason why this was done, then you would get no argument from me.

Your thinking is not advanced enough to comprehend the concepts being debated.

My thinking is "advanced" enough.

We're intentionally not getting the whole story here. Why?

.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-10-12   7:44:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: PSUSA (#9)

But he is hiding, ---->hiding<---- the other reasonS why this is being done. Why is he HIDING it? You are acting like this was the only reason why this was done. He doesn't care about the other reasons why this was done, but anyone else should care why, because without that info, no one is getting the whole story.

You are missing the point. If we pin the Oath Keeper label on a guy who is a scumbag, people will make the association that Oath keepers are scumbags. Now that that is accomplished, they can say "We have to take that guy's kids!! He is an Oath Keeper!!". People all across the country will remember that some scumbag in NH had his kids taken away, and that he was affiliated with Oath Keepers. Now, we can use the same approach on a guy who is not a scumbag, and no one will complain, because there is a mental connection in people's heads between Oath keeper and scumbag.

They could use the same approach on me. I am the 2nd VP of Oath Keepers in Texas. If a regular rank and file Oath Keeper is a scumbag now in people's minds, what does that make me? The AntiChrist?? I obey the law, pay taxes, all that stuff. That won't matter if they can smear me to be a dangerous extremist like that crazy guy in NH. Now they come and try to take my kids, and people will approve of it, because "Oh, well, he deserved it. He must have done something wrong. He was a leader in Oath Keepers. Was, because I will be dead.

Do you see my point? That is what we are trying to prevent.

echo5sierra  posted on  2010-10-12   11:15:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 16.

#17. To: echo5sierra (#16)

What I found interesting is that they characterized the Oath Keepers as a militia. Militia already have a bad name in the media. I have one contact on face book who thinks militia are dangerous. Weird thing is he is an avid enviro which I think are more likely to commit terrorism than militia.

farmfriend  posted on  2010-10-12 11:30:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: echo5sierra (#16)

If we pin the Oath Keeper label on a guy who is a scumbag, people will make the association that Oath keepers are scumbags. Now that that is accomplished, they can say "We have to take that guy's kids!! He is an Oath Keeper!!".

exactly.

"We have to take that guy's kids!! He is an Oath Keeper!!".

[i'd be dead too in the above scenario.]

or insert guns or any other rights or privileges in the place of "kids"

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2010-10-12 11:35:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: echo5sierra (#16)

You are missing the point.

No I'm not. I know what you are saying and i agree with it. This OK business should never have entered into this fiasco. I've said that more than once on this thread already. How many more times do I need to say it?

But it did enter the picture. And I wonder how and why it did, and by who's hands.

And I see no good coming from this by limiting the conversation to the OK only, and hiding the rest of the information. The devil is in the details.

I'm looking under the surface here. I'm doing that because nothing on the surface makes any sense. Nothing here can be taken at face value.

Tell me, if he is not a dues paying member, but posts on the forum (like stated by Octavia above), then how did they even get the information on this in the first place?

The easiest place to get that intel is from that forum, and the easiest way to get that info is from the forum logs. Who has access to those logs?

Did it happen that way? Who the hell knows? I don't and neither do you. Only the people involved know.

We are not getting the whole picture here. That is My Point.

.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-10-12 12:19:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: echo5sierra (#16)

And another thing:

If he is NOT a member, why is that not the VERY FIRST THING made CRYSTAL CLEAR by the OP writer? He calls him an "associate", and that can mean anything from a official member to just a "nonmember but a like-minded regular joe 6pack".

He is aiding the linking of OK to nutcases by his refusal to be clear about what the persons true status is within the OK.

Something stinks here.

.

PSUSA  posted on  2010-10-12 12:35:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 16.

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