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Dead Constitution
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Title: October 11th, 2010 CONFIRMED: Court Did Rely on Oath Keeper Association to Take Baby
Source: oathkeepers.org
URL Source: http://oathkeepers.org/oath/2010/10 ... eper-association-to-take-baby/
Published: Oct 11, 2010
Author: not attributed
Post Date: 2010-10-11 19:53:40 by farmfriend
Ping List: *Jack-Booted Thugs*     Subscribe to *Jack-Booted Thugs*
Keywords: None
Views: 323
Comments: 38

October 11th, 2010

CONFIRMED: Court Did Rely on Oath Keeper Association to Take Baby

There has been some confusion about this case, leading some commentators to believe that the reference to John Irish’s “association” with Oath Keepers was in some other document, rather than in the affidavit relied on by the Court’s Order. Alex Jones’ site, in an effort to protect the privacy of the family, posted excerpts from two different documents, leading some to question where the reference actually was.

To clear that up, below you will find an embedded PDF which contains the full (though redacted) versions of the following documents: the two Petitions (one pertaining to each parent), the Court’s Ex Parte Order, the Affidavit of Dana Bickford which was attached, the Motion for Change of Venue, and lastly, the Notice to Accused Parent, explaining the legal process. We have highlighted in yellow all text where the Petitions or the Court Order refers to the Affidavit which contains reference to Oath Keepers.

By looking at the below documents, you will be able to see from the two Petitions, the Order, and Affidavit item #7, in that order, that:

1. Both Petitions state: “7. Details or Details or facts of abuse/neglect (attach separate sheet if necessary): See affidavit filed with the Concord Family Court.”

2. The Court’s Ex Parte Order states:

“Findings of Fact:

There is reasonable cause to believe that the child is in such circumstances or surroundings as would present an imminent danger to the child’s health or life, which require the immediate placement of the child for the following reasons:

See attached affidavit”

Thus, the Court’s Order does, in fact, refer to, and adopt all of the reasons given in the Affidavit as being the reasons for the order.

3. The Attached Affidavit, referenced by the Petitions and adopted by the Court as its findings of fact, includes, at #7: “The Division became aware and confirmed that Mr. Irish associated with a militia known as the, “Oath Keepers,” and had purchased several different types of weapons, including a rifle, handgun and taser.”

This is how all such petitions are done. The same goes for a restraining order. The petition is supported by affidavit laying out the reasons, and then if the judge finds those reasons sufficient, he or she issues the order. Such orders always rely on the affidavit attached to the petition. And in this case, the Order explicitly states that the reasons in support are listed in the “attached affidavit.”

We have posted these documents with the permission of both parents, but we redacted (blacked out) all the personal information and allegations that do not pertain to Oath Keepers or gun ownership. This was done in part to respect the privacy of the family, including the kids. It is out of such concerns that family court proceedings are usually closed to the public and I think it would be improper to post the entirety of the affidavit for the same reason. If the parents choose to post a non-redacted version, they can do it themselves (we left in their address because they have given that information out in several interviews, asking for donations to their defense fund),

More to the point, we also blacked out the parts unrelated to Oath Keepers and to gun ownership because my focus in this case is on the illegitimate listing of a father’s political affiliations and his gun ownership as a reason to take his daughter away from him and also away from her mother. That the Court relied on an affidavit that explicitly lists the father’s association with Oath Keepers to issue that order makes it important to all ten thousand dues paying members of Oath Keepers (many of them current serving police and military), and also makes it important to the estimated thirty thousand people (and growing) who have “associated” with Oath Keepers in the past, or still do, on several social media sites, such as Facebook, Myspace, Twitter, on our email alert list, in the comments section of our main site, in our free state forums, or in person at our many meetings across the country, and the many additional tens of thousands who have “associated” with us at various rallies, summits, and forums across the nation.

This use of a father’s political association and his gun ownership is also important to many other Americans who don’t even associate with Oath Keepers because what happens in this case can impact the free speech and association rights of all of us, across the nation, of whatever political or social orientation. And that is why we must stand firm, now. Subscribe to *Jack-Booted Thugs*

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#1. To: farmfriend (#0)

Sick, sick, stuff.

Thanks for the update here.

Lod  posted on  2010-10-11   20:01:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: farmfriend (#0)

I certainly don't think it was a good thing to take the newborn baby before they even came home from the hospital. however, on the affidavit there are 11 items listed and 9 are blacked out. so we really don't know what it says. One item that is not blacked out says he had multiple weapons charge against him over time. the weapons charges seem to be the focus of that item even though the 'oath keepers' membership is mentioned.

Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-10-11   20:13:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: farmfriend, lod, all (#0) (Edited)

Sorry FF, but i am not buying this.

Here's why:

"We have posted these documents with the permission of both parents, but we redacted (blacked out) all the personal information and allegations that do not pertain to Oath Keepers or gun ownership. This was done in part to respect the privacy of the family, including the kids. It is out of such concerns that family court proceedings are usually closed to the public and I think it would be improper to post the entirety of the affidavit for the same reason. "

Bullshit. Those "allegations" that he is hiding are why this was done in the first place. The asshole is latched onto this "its because he is in the oathkeepers" crap and is intentionally ignoring everything else, or rather he is intentionally forcing the reader to ignore everything else by hiding the info for dubious reasons.

"More to the point, we also blacked out the parts unrelated to Oath Keepers and to gun ownership because my focus in this case is on the illegitimate listing of a father’s political affiliations and his gun ownership as a reason to take his daughter away from him and also away from her mother."

And there he admits what I posted above as the reason this asshole is saying that this is all about "oathkeepers", and hiding the other aspects of the info provided.

Putting that "he;s an oathkeeper" info into the documents was stupid. But this attention whore is playing it for all it's worth, to the total self-admitted exclusion of everything else.

Lets wait and see what the real truth of the matter is. I bet it is completely different from what the OP is saying. This OP has the stench of bullshit all over it.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

The second dumbest creature on the face of the earth is the one who cannot recognize its enemies. The most stupid of all is the one who will defend and collaborate with the very enemies that are destroying it and its own kind. -Ben Klassen

PSUSA  posted on  2010-10-11   20:30:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: PSUSA (#3)

Bullshit. Those "allegations" that he is hiding are why this was done in the first place. The asshole is latched onto this "its because he is in the oathkeepers" crap and is intentionally ignoring everything else, or rather he is intentionally forcing the reader to ignore everything else by hiding the info for dubious reasons.

Stewart is hiding it because we don't care about the other allegations. Did you actually read Stewart's post? Of course there are other reasons they took the baby. We are protesting the fact that Oathkeeper association was listed as a reason for taking the baby at all. Is he a scumbag? Possibly, but if he is enough of a scumbag that he needs kids taken away from him, why not throw him in jail?? All they are doing is punishing the baby girl by depriving her of her mother in the first critical days of life, when she needs to bond with the mother.

I feel like I am repeating what Stewart said to you. If he is a scumbag, he is an easy target. No one will care that we took his rights away. No one will care that now the groups and ideas you associate with can now be used against ANYONE, even if you are pure as the driven snow. We can take children away from anti abortion and homeschooling and anti illegal immigration people. Just call the groups "militias" and you get their kids.

Your thinking is not advanced enough to comprehend the concepts being debated. Just like Stewart says in the post, yeah, Padilla was a scumbag. He still gets his due process rights, because if they can deny him his rights, they can do it to you. That is the whole point.

echo5sierra  posted on  2010-10-11   21:20:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: echo5sierra (#4)

All they are doing is punishing the baby girl by depriving her of her mother in the first critical days of life, when she needs to bond with the mother.

this is the tragedy. unless there is proof that this couple has abused or neglected children in the past, this baby should not have been taken away from them.

christine  posted on  2010-10-11   22:04:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: echo5sierra, PSUSA, all (#4)

I feel like I am repeating what Stewart said to you. If he is a scumbag, he is an easy target. No one will care that we took his rights away. No one will care that now the groups and ideas you associate with can now be used against ANYONE, even if you are pure as the driven snow. We can take children away from anti abortion and homeschooling and anti illegal immigration people. Just call the groups "militias" and you get their kids.

Thank you for laying out the exact crux of the matter and why this is so odious. It might well be that he is a scumbag, but Oathkeepers is not a scumbag group, and his ownership of guns should be irrelevant.

The other problem is that Persecutors and Family Service types also LIE. They have been caught at it repeatedly and in multiple proceedings. Yes we need to protect children but given the record of Family Service Departments at least by the records in my State, Oregon, (where the Children and Family Services Department had to change their name because they were in such disrepute) their actions, word, and past treatment of children is no recommendation beyond the fact that they are State Appointed Scumbags.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-10-11   22:04:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Original_Intent (#6)

The other problem is that Persecutors and Family Service types also LIE.

This is also such a salient point. DCYF and their counterparts in other states are known to be extremely mendacious, especially when a hefty bonus is riding on their evaluations. Thank you for making it. Nothing on the affidavit has been proven as true. So what if the police came to his house multiple times? Why did they come? Because he has guns? The other reasons need to come to light, but that doesn't change the fact that this is a programming/free association op.

Mix Oath Keepers in with people who (allegedly) beat their wives and half of your job is done. The association is made between Oath Keepers and people who beat their wives. People like PSUSA will drift on back to sleep muttering something about how Irish deserved it.

echo5sierra  posted on  2010-10-11   22:21:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: echo5sierra (#7)

The other problem is that Persecutors and Family Service types also LIE.

This is also such a salient point. DCYF and their counterparts in other states are known to be extremely mendacious, especially when a hefty bonus is riding on their evaluations. Thank you for making it. Nothing on the affidavit has been proven as true. So what if the police came to his house multiple times? Why did they come? Because he has guns? The other reasons need to come to light, but that doesn't change the fact that this is a programming/free association op.

Mix Oath Keepers in with people who (allegedly) beat their wives and half of your job is done. The association is made between Oath Keepers and people who beat their wives. People like PSUSA will drift on back to sleep muttering something about how Irish deserved it.

Exactly. Wheels within wheels within wheels within wheels ...

Nothing these agencies ever do should be taken at face value without investigating the surrounding facts.

As soon as it was mentioned that his membership in Oathkeepers was mentioned as one of reasons my finely tuned Bullshit Detector immediately went into the red.

I already know that the PTB do not like Oathkeepers because they do not like the restrictions of the Constitution and want absolute unquestioned power. Oathkeepers cuts directly under that by reminding Police and Military that their Oath is to the Constitution and to the nation not to Der Fearless Leahder. Consequently they would like to make the exact kind of association you point out in the minds of der Sheeple i.e., "The association is made between Oath Keepers and people who beat their wives."

Thus they discredit Oathkeepers and attack an organization which is doing the exact opposite of what they want. Instead of Government worship it is oriented toward the duties and responsibilities of the Police and Military to the people, and the nation, not to whichever figurehead happens to be currently squatting in the Oval Orofice.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-10-11   22:34:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: echo5sierra (#4)

Stewart is hiding it because we don't care about the other allegations. Did you actually read Stewart's post? Of course there are other reasons they took the baby. We are protesting the fact that Oathkeeper association was listed as a reason for taking the baby at all.

That is a legit reason to protest. It should not have been a factor. I already said that putting this on the documents was stupid. I bet someone really f'd up by doing that.

But he is hiding, ---->hiding<---- the other reasonS why this is being done. Why is he HIDING it? You are acting like this was the only reason why this was done. He doesn't care about the other reasons why this was done, but anyone else should care why, because without that info, no one is getting the whole story.

We can take children away from anti abortion and homeschooling and anti illegal immigration people. Just call the groups "militias" and you get their kids.

No. You don't just get the kids.

There are other reasons listed. Those reasons were redacted by the OK .org. It was done to hide the real reasons.

If this OK membership was the only reason why this was done, then you would get no argument from me.

Your thinking is not advanced enough to comprehend the concepts being debated.

My thinking is "advanced" enough.

We're intentionally not getting the whole story here. Why?

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

The second dumbest creature on the face of the earth is the one who cannot recognize its enemies. The most stupid of all is the one who will defend and collaborate with the very enemies that are destroying it and its own kind. -Ben Klassen

PSUSA  posted on  2010-10-12   7:44:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Original_Intent, echo5sierra, all (#6) (Edited)

but Oathkeepers is not a scumbag group

You don't know that. Yes, the members probably are honorable, but who knows about the website owner(s)?

It always amazes me when people turn over their private information to unknown people. Would you fill out this application if it went to the DHS or DOD, telling them that they will not obey orders? Why place yourself on their radar for no good reason? You have just handed over to them your most precious tactical asset, the element of surprise. And you did it for nothing.

Here is the form to join: https://www.formstack.com/forms/?721615-lEe3sgs4Tc

Why give that info to unknown people when you do not know what they are going to do with it or even who they are working for? It's a WEBSITE with nice sounding WORDS that ANYONE can put up. That is all it is.

If you are going to take an oath, then take the f'n oath already, and don't announce it to the world by blowing a trumpet. Just obey the oath. It's not important for anyone else to know. If you want others to know, then protect your privacy. You should not have to give up that right to privacy by taking any oath.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

The second dumbest creature on the face of the earth is the one who cannot recognize its enemies. The most stupid of all is the one who will defend and collaborate with the very enemies that are destroying it and its own kind. -Ben Klassen

PSUSA  posted on  2010-10-12   8:10:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: PSUSA (#3)

I vote with you PSUSA. I read the non-redacted Change of Venue request. The mother had her two older children removed for neglect and the final judgement is pending. Also, the father was under a court order to attend an "End the Violence" class which he did not do. Domestic violence and child neglect are part of the picture.

They definitely made a mistake even mentioning the Oath Keepers. The info I saw also indicates he was NOT a member of the Oath Keepers. He paid no dues and seemed to be most active posting on the website. I wonder if that means they spied on his internet activity. There are much better horses to back than this POS.

octavia  posted on  2010-10-12   8:44:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: octavia (#11)

Well there we go. Small wonder that this was redacted.

I wonder if that means they spied on his internet activity.

I didnt know that they have a forum there. I wonder who the spy is. hell, I cant even figure out why the OK is even an issue.

Was it because the OK owner(s) were a source of intel? I think that is a distinct possibility.

And if he's not a member, why is the owner acting like he is?

This is getting curiouser and curiouser. I think we're still missing some pieces of the puzzle.

.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

The second dumbest creature on the face of the earth is the one who cannot recognize its enemies. The most stupid of all is the one who will defend and collaborate with the very enemies that are destroying it and its own kind. -Ben Klassen

PSUSA  posted on  2010-10-12   9:13:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: PSUSA (#12)

Whenever somebody finally gets info from the US government after a long hard fight using Freedom of Information laws, most of the pages are blacked/redacted out. Well, I'm sorry but thats the stuff where THE STUFF is.

octavia  posted on  2010-10-12   9:20:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: octavia (#11)

vote with you PSUSA. I read the non-redacted Change of Venue request. The mother had her two older children removed for neglect and the final judgement is pending. Also, the father was under a court order to attend an "End the Violence" class which he did not do. Domestic violence and child neglect are part of the picture.

They definitely made a mistake even mentioning the Oath Keepers. The info I saw also indicates he was NOT a member of the Oath Keepers. He paid no dues and seemed to be most active posting on the website. I wonder if that means they spied on his internet activity. There are much better horses to back than this POS.

doubt if it was a "mistake"; more like an "opportunity", i bet.

The mother had her two older children removed for neglect and the final judgement is pending. Also, the father was under a court order to attend an "End the Violence" class which he did not do. Domestic violence and child neglect are part of the picture.

The State makes accusations all day long in child custody [theft] suits. I have a friend ordered to take "violence" classes after she tapped her husband with a piece of paper. He dragged her to the bedroom, threw himself on her, badly bruising her breasts, and he got off as the "victim", accusing her of sticking a gun in his ribs, a gun he'd hidden two weeks before thinking it would keep her from leaving him; a gun he couldn't produce on the night of the deed because he couldn't remember where he'd hidden it. I'd have to see the evidence [which I haven't] and hear the parents' side of the story, before I'd believe anything the State had to say. That being said, if they are what the State accuses them of, the fact that the State listed them as being a member of Oath Keepers etc. as part of their reasoning to remove the baby, will set a precedent which will be used again. I think that is the point you are missing.

"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2010-10-12   9:38:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#14) (Edited)

The State makes accusations all day long in child custody [theft] suits.

a couple of websites that address my point:

Horror Stories from Jeb Bush's Florida
http://www.extralove.com/ash_related_media.html

Child Protective Services "CPS" False Accusations | Family Rights v. Child Welfare Service
... Let the children of the innocent return to their homes where they are truly valued, adored, and loved by the parents God gave them. http://www.fightcps.com/2002_06_16_archive.html

=============

edit. horror story from Oregon: [corrected link] www.avoiceforchildren.com/in_the/beginning.html [the couple never got their daughter back; they won a million dollar settlement in a court case to "send a message" to state child-snatchers, which as far as I know, the state never paid; the couple lost their home and were bankrupted in their quest to get their daughter back; and Pamela died in her early fifties from pneumonia because she could not afford to see a doctor.]

=================

edit again.

a link at the avoiceforchildren site shows that Pamela Gaston was only 50 when she died December 20, 2004, and there is a picture of Will Gaston with Melissa, his daughter, in 2005 [!], so apparently he finally got her back, and praise be to God, and Pamela, Melissa's step-mother, who fought so valiantly and competently. Damn tragedy she didn't live to see the day, but she will never be forgotten by the people who fight in this battle every day.

"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2010-10-12   10:41:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: PSUSA (#9)

But he is hiding, ---->hiding<---- the other reasonS why this is being done. Why is he HIDING it? You are acting like this was the only reason why this was done. He doesn't care about the other reasons why this was done, but anyone else should care why, because without that info, no one is getting the whole story.

You are missing the point. If we pin the Oath Keeper label on a guy who is a scumbag, people will make the association that Oath keepers are scumbags. Now that that is accomplished, they can say "We have to take that guy's kids!! He is an Oath Keeper!!". People all across the country will remember that some scumbag in NH had his kids taken away, and that he was affiliated with Oath Keepers. Now, we can use the same approach on a guy who is not a scumbag, and no one will complain, because there is a mental connection in people's heads between Oath keeper and scumbag.

They could use the same approach on me. I am the 2nd VP of Oath Keepers in Texas. If a regular rank and file Oath Keeper is a scumbag now in people's minds, what does that make me? The AntiChrist?? I obey the law, pay taxes, all that stuff. That won't matter if they can smear me to be a dangerous extremist like that crazy guy in NH. Now they come and try to take my kids, and people will approve of it, because "Oh, well, he deserved it. He must have done something wrong. He was a leader in Oath Keepers. Was, because I will be dead.

Do you see my point? That is what we are trying to prevent.

echo5sierra  posted on  2010-10-12   11:15:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: echo5sierra (#16)

What I found interesting is that they characterized the Oath Keepers as a militia. Militia already have a bad name in the media. I have one contact on face book who thinks militia are dangerous. Weird thing is he is an avid enviro which I think are more likely to commit terrorism than militia.


"Every Person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons.
Senator Jacob Howard, Co-author of the citizenship clause of the 14th Amendment, 1866.

farmfriend  posted on  2010-10-12   11:30:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: echo5sierra (#16)

If we pin the Oath Keeper label on a guy who is a scumbag, people will make the association that Oath keepers are scumbags. Now that that is accomplished, they can say "We have to take that guy's kids!! He is an Oath Keeper!!".

exactly.

"We have to take that guy's kids!! He is an Oath Keeper!!".

[i'd be dead too in the above scenario.]

or insert guns or any other rights or privileges in the place of "kids"

"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2010-10-12   11:35:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#14)

My experience with CPS is them not moving soon enough to protect a child. CPS will often leave children in a dangerous situation too long in an attempt to rehabilitate the perpetrator, and "keep the family together".

Experiences: 1) Parents under investigation for 3-4 months by CPS. 4 month old baby brought dead to ER. Parents fried it on a stove burner.

2) The town derelect and his SLOW wife make 8 babies together. He beats them all. Seen in ER repetitively over years. Multiple broken bones. Call CPS, police nothing happens ever. Children raised to be beaten.

3) Admit a 2 month old brought to ER by CPS. Weighs 5#2oz but birthweight was 8#4oz. Parents admit deliberatly starving baby. Baby gains weight rapidly when simply fed. Parents from Michigan, all of 3 older children removed for neglect/abuse. Baby in foster care for 2 months and foster mother loves him. I see him at 4 months for checkup before he is released back to parents. Foster mother cries through entire visit. Next week parents and baby move out of state.

4.) Admit an addict monthly. Always found down in home unresponsive. Family once left her laying on kitchen floor for 2 days, until she began to turn blue. She has 4 children, all thin and dirty. Call CPS every damn time she is admitted. Caseworker comes in, chats her up and leaves smiling.

I have very little respect for CPS.

This mans' membership in Oath Keepers should not be an issue. But, both parents appear to have real parenting problems. If we want CPS to go away and to never interfere in parental rights, the price will be dead children.

octavia  posted on  2010-10-12   11:53:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: octavia (#19)

The real solution is to add up all the dead children that CPS has not intervened in a timely manner to save, versus all the children that CPS has saved. I dare say it will be similar to comparing the number of deaths by medical malpractice versus accidental gun death.

echo5sierra  posted on  2010-10-12   11:58:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: octavia (#19)

I understand your point of view.

CPS apparently does not exist for the children, but for some other purpose, Just as the US government does not exist for the people, but to profit from them. All so-called governments and their agencies are in fact, for-profit corporations registered on Dunn & Bradstreet. Government has proved to be the child and family destroyer, not their savior.

"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2010-10-12   12:12:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: echo5sierra (#16)

You are missing the point.

No I'm not. I know what you are saying and i agree with it. This OK business should never have entered into this fiasco. I've said that more than once on this thread already. How many more times do I need to say it?

But it did enter the picture. And I wonder how and why it did, and by who's hands.

And I see no good coming from this by limiting the conversation to the OK only, and hiding the rest of the information. The devil is in the details.

I'm looking under the surface here. I'm doing that because nothing on the surface makes any sense. Nothing here can be taken at face value.

Tell me, if he is not a dues paying member, but posts on the forum (like stated by Octavia above), then how did they even get the information on this in the first place?

The easiest place to get that intel is from that forum, and the easiest way to get that info is from the forum logs. Who has access to those logs?

Did it happen that way? Who the hell knows? I don't and neither do you. Only the people involved know.

We are not getting the whole picture here. That is My Point.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

The second dumbest creature on the face of the earth is the one who cannot recognize its enemies. The most stupid of all is the one who will defend and collaborate with the very enemies that are destroying it and its own kind. -Ben Klassen

PSUSA  posted on  2010-10-12   12:19:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: echo5sierra (#16)

And another thing:

If he is NOT a member, why is that not the VERY FIRST THING made CRYSTAL CLEAR by the OP writer? He calls him an "associate", and that can mean anything from a official member to just a "nonmember but a like-minded regular joe 6pack".

He is aiding the linking of OK to nutcases by his refusal to be clear about what the persons true status is within the OK.

Something stinks here.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

The second dumbest creature on the face of the earth is the one who cannot recognize its enemies. The most stupid of all is the one who will defend and collaborate with the very enemies that are destroying it and its own kind. -Ben Klassen

PSUSA  posted on  2010-10-12   12:35:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: PSUSA, echo5sierra, all (#10)

It always amazes me when people turn over their private information to unknown people. Would you fill out this application if it went to the DHS or DOD, telling them that they will not obey orders? Why place yourself on their radar for no good reason? You have just handed over to them your most precious tactical asset, the element of surprise. And you did it for nothing.

A. I've heard the founder of the Oathkeepers interviewed on the radio and he seems to be coming from the right place. He is well aware that what he is doing is flying right into the maw of the monster.

B. If there was anything in the background of the Oathkeeper's leadership that was really discreditable you can count on it having received great publicity by now. What is notable is that has not happened.

C. There is strength in numbers. While the PTB are no doubt made uncomfortable by those who stand up to take the Oathkeeper's Pledge what can they do about it publicly? Say it is a bad thing to reaffirm one's commitment to the Constitution and the Rule of Law?

The nasty thing about Oathkeepers from the point of view of the Oligarchy is that they are playing a harmony to the misuse of patriotism and loyalty, which have been used to sell their pointless and ruinous wars, and it is a song which they cannot cut across without attacking their own PsyOps. As such Oathkeepers is good medicine because it reaffirms that loyalty is given to the Constitution and the Nation not just whatever puppet is wearing the right hat today.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-10-12   12:52:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: PSUSA, echo5sierra, all (#23)

Something stinks here.

At least you made one valid statement about your posting.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-10-12   12:53:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: octavia (#19)

I have too much stuff on my computer and can't get the exact URL, but if you go to www.avoiceforchildren.com and click on the left hand side "Daily Mail", you will see something that might interest you. My computer is trying to crash, so I couldn't read it at this time:

Study: Why Child Abuse Investigations Don't Help Kids
Major, MAJOR new study- Study: Why Child Abuse Investigations Don't Help Kids By Maia Szalavitz Monday, October 4, 2010 Time ...Now a new study published Posted - Tue Oct 5, 2010 4:39 am

"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2010-10-12   12:55:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: PSUSA (#23)

I found the Delaware(yes Delaware) court motion to remove custody of Stphanis Taylors' youngest two children. Two older children have already been removed and custody turned over to relatives. She is a crackhead and this is her fifth baby. She has not even shown up at court dates involving loss of custody.

Will try to attach link:

courts.delaware.gov/OPINIONS/download.aspx?ID=137860

octavia  posted on  2010-10-12   12:59:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Original_Intent (#24)

A. I've heard the founder of the Oathkeepers interviewed on the radio and he seems to be coming from the right place. He is well aware that what he is doing is flying right into the maw of the monster.

Uh huh. What do you expect him to do? Say something like "Join me and I will give all of your info to the DHS"?

I dont know if he is a straight shooter or not.

But you should know that people will tell you what they know you want to hear. It makes them that much more believable because your guard is down.

B. If there was anything in the background of the Oathkeeper's leadership that was really discreditable you can count on it having received great publicity by now. What is notable is that has not happened.

That's not so notable.

How long did it take for Hal Turner to finally be exposed? He sure talked the talk, but he never walked the walk.

C. There is strength in numbers. While the PTB are no doubt made uncomfortable by those who stand up to take the Oathkeeper's Pledge what can they do about it publicly? Say it is a bad thing to reaffirm one's commitment to the Constitution and the Rule of Law?

Since when do you need to give personal and private info to take a pledge?

Who benefits from receiving that private info?

There is only strength in numbers if they are being led by honest people. How can one judge anthers honesty by listening or reading only to public words? You can't.

People better start exercising due diligence before handing this info to others on a silver platter.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

The second dumbest creature on the face of the earth is the one who cannot recognize its enemies. The most stupid of all is the one who will defend and collaborate with the very enemies that are destroying it and its own kind. -Ben Klassen

PSUSA  posted on  2010-10-12   13:09:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Original_Intent (#25)

At least you made one valid statement about your posting.

All of my statements are valid. And brilliant.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

The second dumbest creature on the face of the earth is the one who cannot recognize its enemies. The most stupid of all is the one who will defend and collaborate with the very enemies that are destroying it and its own kind. -Ben Klassen

PSUSA  posted on  2010-10-12   13:10:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: octavia (#27)

This whole thing is a clusterflubber if ever there was one. But it is benefiting oathkeepers. You can't buy this kind of publicity, for any amount of $$$.

Sounds like crack babies, even though I didnt see it mentioned. It's not a stretch of the imagination though.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

The second dumbest creature on the face of the earth is the one who cannot recognize its enemies. The most stupid of all is the one who will defend and collaborate with the very enemies that are destroying it and its own kind. -Ben Klassen

PSUSA  posted on  2010-10-12   13:21:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: PSUSA (#28)

Das ist gut.

Is that from a talking points memo or briefing book?

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-10-12   13:36:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Original_Intent (#31)

Well, either discuss it like I have, point by point, or fuck off.

Replying to you is not really worth the effort.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

The second dumbest creature on the face of the earth is the one who cannot recognize its enemies. The most stupid of all is the one who will defend and collaborate with the very enemies that are destroying it and its own kind. -Ben Klassen

PSUSA  posted on  2010-10-12   13:40:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: PSUSA (#30)

The crack info is in there. If I were the OKs, I would disassociate from these losers. The caseworker who mentioned the OK link needs to back off and apologize to them. Then she needs to read up on what the OKs are and what they ARE NOT. She was trying to build up her case and went too far.

octavia  posted on  2010-10-12   14:26:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: PSUSA (#32)

You did not address my points. You merely applied a little spin and pretended that was a rebuttal.

A denial of a point is not a rebuttal it is a denial, and in your case the application of spin to avoid addressing the points.

Throw all the hissy fits you want Spook but it does not change that.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-10-12   14:30:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Original_Intent, all, again with the agent shit. Is that all you got? (#34)

Post 28 says that I did address your points. Anyone here can read it and decide for themselves on who is being truthful here.

Unlike you, I don't call those I disagree with "agents" when i can't refute their points. You don't know how stupid that makes you look when you do that.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

The second dumbest creature on the face of the earth is the one who cannot recognize its enemies. The most stupid of all is the one who will defend and collaborate with the very enemies that are destroying it and its own kind. -Ben Klassen

PSUSA  posted on  2010-10-12   14:51:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: PSUSA (#35)

If it walks like a Duck

And quacks like a Duck

I call it a Duck

While it is possible that I am wrong and you are just a racist nutcase you exhibit all the classic characteristics of a disinfo poster. So, regardless of whether you are one in actuality or not is to some degree irrelevant because you have a distinctive "quack".

Later Ducky.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-10-12   15:19:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Original_Intent (#36) (Edited)

If it walks like a Duck

And quacks like a Duck

I call it a Duck

While it is possible that I am wrong and you are just a racist nutcase you exhibit all the classic characteristics of a disinfo poster. So, regardless of whether you are one in actuality or not is to some degree irrelevant because you have a distinctive "quack".

Later Ducky.

Hmmmm.

Let me see. Which logical fallacy did you commit there, AGAIN? I don't know, there are so many. Eenie meenie miney moe. Catch a nigger by the toe...

For someone that bitches about ad hominem attacks directed at you, you seen to have no problem directing them at others.

Like I say, it makes you look stupid when you do this, which is rather funny especially when you try and come off as being so smart. I guess you just can't help it.

Try laying off the heap big fire water. That might help. .


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

The second dumbest creature on the face of the earth is the one who cannot recognize its enemies. The most stupid of all is the one who will defend and collaborate with the very enemies that are destroying it and its own kind. -Ben Klassen

PSUSA  posted on  2010-10-12   15:43:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: PSUSA (#37)

I've laid out my criticisms before, and their justifications.

I am not going to do it for every post.

Deal with it - Ducky.

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-10-12   15:52:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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