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Title: Arizona Govenor VS Phoenix Suns Owner
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Published: Dec 1, 2010
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Post Date: 2010-12-01 14:16:26 by James Deffenbach
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Views: 162
Comments: 9
The owner of the Phoenix Suns basketball team, Robert Sarver, opposes AZ's new immigration laws. Arizona 's Governor, Jan Brewer, released the following statement in response to Sarver's criticism of the new law: "What if the owners of the Suns discovered that hordes of people were sneaking into games without paying? What if they had a good idea who the gate-crashers are, but the ushers and security personnel were not allowed to ask these folks to produce their ticket stubs, thus non-paying attendees couldn't be ejected. Furthermore, what if Suns' ownership was expected to provide those who sneaked in with complimentary eats and drink? And what if, on those days when a gate-crasher became ill or injured, the Suns had to provide free medical care and shelter?" - Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer Try going to any other country without ID 
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#1. To: James Deffenbach (#0)
(Edited)
not a very good analogy by Gov Brewer. The state of arizona charges prices to its citizens through sales taxes, payroll taxes and income taxes as well as other fees. The illegal immigrants always pay sales taxes as everyone does. in the large majority of cases they get regular paychecks which means they have payroll taxes and usually income taxes too withheld. The state knows that many employers do hire illegal immigrants illegally. and the state under Brewer's leadership chooses not to know who they are. It is easy to audit the employers' payrolls. South Carolina does it and successfully keeps illegal immigrants from working in their economy. Arizona chooses not to do it. Every day in Arizona employers hire illegal immigrants without any fear of Governor Brewer's state government. By making this analogy governor Brewer is dishonest. Those who choose not to see this dishonesty are accepting a delusion into their own minds. but here is the greatest dishonesty. Governor Brewer and her Arizona Republicans have in the last 2-3 years made it a big priority of theirs' to implement a guest worker program where the current illegal immigrants are to be turned into legal guest workers and for a new stream of guest workers to be always available in the future to all employers if they choose to hire from that pool. The Republicans met with the Mexican consulate to arrange it even. The Mexican consulate prepared a huge list of illegal immigrants from Mexico for this purpose so that employers in Arizona could hire them. This was printed right in our local paper.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
Most people who get paid in cash (under the table) don't have payroll taxes/income taxes. And LOTS of the illegals are "doing jobs Americans won't do" (horse $#it!) that people pay cash for. Especially yard work and things like that.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. some illegals do get paid in cash. They stand on street corners in Phoenix metro area, lots of them, all over town. and people hire them for cash. This practice was considered illegal for them to stand on street corners like that and ask for jobs just a few years ago by local cities. The law was changed to accommodate the mexicans. most get regular paychecks though. The unemployed mexicans stand on street corners and do cash jobs. There has never been a time when the mexicans were paid sub-standard wages or anything like that. They were ushered right into regular jobs at regular pay. and very few of them do the crop harvesting. and for every job that they do including the crop harvesting and the meat-butchering there are lots of Americans who do those jobs also and lots who want to do those jobs.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
It is hard for me to work up a lot of sympathy for folks who disregard the immigration laws. When I go to another country I have to produce some papers showing I have jumped through the hoops to be there. And the Mexican government is hypocritical with all that yammering about how bad Arizona is treating the illegal alien Mexicans when they have a stricter immigration policy than Arizona does (one of the strictest in the western hemisphere, or so I have heard).
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. you know what I agree with you. Mexico is very hypocritical in that we are far more open to immigration and tolerant of illegal immigration than they and yet their leaders go on a global stage and speak of our policies like they were criminal and unacceptable. and as you know we have plenty of Americans who are equally anti-American. The people I dislike most in all this are the employers who knowingly hire them and prefer them. I see these people as anti-American and just like pre-1865 slave owners. The practice of slavery drives down wages and ruins opportunity for the free people participating in the economy. that is how it was in pre-1865 America and that is how it is today with the illegals who are perhaps not slaves, but still of crimped legal status. Just like in the old south employers prefer to hire people of a crimped legal status. I admit that I also do have a dislike for the fact that there are so many illegals and so many mexicans. It is hard to tolerate them where I live because there are so many of them. The only part I differ with you is that I would not criminalize the otherwise law-abiding illegal immigrant who works here and is fitting in. Personally I can't see putting a criminal stamp on them and perhaps jail-time for doing what they did. I've said that from their point of view they were invited here by the 1986 law that held employers harmless for hiring them if only certain procedures were followed. The government purposely decided to let them in and not punish employers for hiring them. The invitation they received to come I say was illegitimate, but they saw it as an invitation. and employers welcomed them too. and word went back to mexico/honduras/etc that it was so. I don't blame you for disliking this view of mine, but I would agree with Reagan that if he's been here for only 1 year and worked a job, then ask him/her if he wants to become a US citizen on a fixed time frame. and if they say they will, then let them stay and sign a paper to eventually become a US citizen by meeting all requirements over a period of time. Or else, if they don't agree, then send them home on a plane/bus. It is our leaders who we should blame instead of the illegals IMHO. Some employers are favoring people who speak both languages. Some do it in a ridiculous way where a person who hardly speaks english is hired to serve a customer base that is 95% english speaking. - even when only 1% can't speak any english. but everybody can order a big mac in english. they will carry their bi-lingual ideology just that far. Schools are forcing english speaking kids to speak spanish. At some schools that are maybe 90% english speaking kids they will speak spanish in the morning english in the afternoon. And in a majority spanish speaking school they will speak spanish all day. I'm reading this stuff in the newspaper and hearing it from parents. I know for a fact school-kids are badgered into learning spanish. All of the immigrant kids learn english automatically by themselves in our country. That is no problem. In arizona we would have no division of language in public life if it were not for the pro-spanish ideology of these people. kids are indoctrinated that it is completely normal for employers to require both languages. All local cities require employees to speak both languages. There are grocery stores and restaurants you can go to where english is not spoken by the people who serve you. and there are many local stores where spanish is the language. and they conspicuously sometimes do not even translate. I feel let down by the rest of America that they let this tidal wave in by the 1986 legislation and have to this day not resolved to audit the employers' payroll and force conformance with the law. This combined with the anti-illegal fervor is causing a racial backlash against whites in my part of the country. we'll see what the sleaze-balls do in their 'immigration reform' no doubt the Demo-Publicans will give us. Obama no doubt will be a traitor and sign it. It'll be a surprise gift for America's poor - guest workers. so many gifts that the American poor are going to get - screwed/stabbed in the back/ruined. The government bends over backwards to defend profits of big corporations to the point of ridiculously low taxes, non-regulation and even bailouts. But to think that the common workmen/women in our country would profit by their labor - we must stop that and let employers have illegal immigrants/guest workers. If that is not class warfare, I don't know what is. the illegal immigrants, the visa workers, the guest workers, the chinese/indians with suppressed currencies. all of that is class warfare and tyranny of America.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
In post #3 you said, "...There has never been a time when the mexicans were paid sub-standard wages or anything like that..." But in this post you say, "...The people I dislike most in all this are the employers who knowingly hire them and prefer them. I see these people as anti-American and just like pre-1865 slave owners. The practice of slavery drives down wages and ruins opportunity for the free people participating in the economy..." ???
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. I disagree. When you catch someone in your house that you have not invited do you ask him if he wants to be an honored guest or do you show his @$$ to the door by whatever means necessary? Let them stay just because they have avoided getting caught for a year? No, I don't think so. Deport them and tell them the line forms behind people who are waiting in it already, some of whom have been waiting for years. And tell them in no uncertain terms that if they come back again uninvited it won't be just deportation the next time.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. OK, so that is a little inconsistent. point is they come in at regular wages, not drastically lower, but slightly lower on average. Then over time it does suppress wages IMO. I know that wages in any construction trade today are frequently half what it was in 1980 when you consider inflation/cost of living. unemployment's much higher. a sad pattern is that many employers develop supervisors who are mexican and once that happens there is a preference for mexicans. and perhaps at the same wage - employers feel more secure when employees have difficulty quitting the job. illegals who are illegal to hire may want to hold onto their jobs a bit more than legals. Can an employer mis-treat illegals better or legals?
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
I can understand that your view is very reasonable.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
"What if the owners of the Suns discovered that hordes of people were sneaking into games without paying? What if they had a good idea who the gate-crashers are, but the ushers and security personnel were not allowed to ask these folks to produce their ticket stubs, thus non-paying attendees couldn't be ejected. Furthermore, what if Suns' ownership was expected to provide those who sneaked in with complimentary eats and drink? And what if, on those days when a gate-crasher became ill or injured, the Suns had to provide free medical care and shelter?" - Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer
#2. To: Red Jones (#1)
in the large majority of cases they get regular paychecks which means they have payroll taxes and usually income taxes too withheld.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#3. To: James Deffenbach (#2)
#4. To: Red Jones (#3)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#5. To: James Deffenbach (#4)
#6. To: Red Jones (#5)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#7. To: Red Jones (#5)
I would agree with Reagan that if he's been here for only 1 year and worked a job, then ask him/her if he wants to become a US citizen on a fixed time frame. and if they say they will, then let them stay and sign a paper to eventually become a US citizen by meeting all requirements over a period of time.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein posted on 2010-05-25 9:39:59 ET (2 images) Reply Trace
#8. To: James Deffenbach (#6)
#9. To: James Deffenbach (#7)
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