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Title: Why Dueling Should be Legal
Source: Unclebob's Treehouse
URL Source: [None]
Published: Dec 3, 2010
Author: Bob Walllace
Post Date: 2010-12-03 14:48:12 by Turtle
Keywords: None
Views: 177
Comments: 10

I've come to the conclusion dueling should be legal. I found this quote: "By ritualizing violence in a punctilious grammar of honor, as it were, duels were supposed to prevent potential chaos. That scourge of public and familial order, the blood feud, could be avoided under the problematic idea that a man's sullied reputation would thereby be restored."

In other words, a little bit of violence prevents a lot. The war is Iraq, for example, is a blood feud. The neocons, who are cowards and chickenhawks, are mostly Jews involved in a blood feud with the Muslim world. Why should that be my problem?

I'd call out every neocon alive: William Kristol, John Podhoretz, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Doug Feith. All would run away, being cowards, and lose the miniscule honor they have.

Wild Bill Hickok, who only fought one duel, used to post a sign in a town, telling certain people to get out of town, or be killed. They all left.

We need such signs today.

Poster Comment:

Wild Bill Hickok fought one duel and killed one man...in Springfield Missouri.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  

#1. To: Turtle (#0)

Sight of blood makes me ill.

Especially my blood.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-12-03   15:04:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Wild Bill Hickok fought one duel and killed one man...in Springfield Missouri.

Surprisingly enough, there is a famous painting of this incident hanging in the Greene County Library on S. Campbell (The Library Center) in Springfield. I once asked one of the librarians if the painting was an accurate depiction of the event but she didn't know. If it is then it was a damned good shot as Hickock and the other guy were quite a distance away from each other and pistols aren't known for their accuracy at a distance.

I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. - Benjamin Franklin

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2010-12-03   15:22:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

If it is then it was a damned good shot

Cap and ball, one shot, got the guy in the heart. The other guy fired first and shot the dirt at Hickok's feet.

"If ever this vast country is brought under a single government, it will be one of the most extensive corruption, indifferent and incapable of a wholesome care over so wide a spread of surface. This will not be borne, and you will have to choose between reform and revolution. If I know the spirit of this country, the one or the other is inevitable." - Thomas Jefferson

Turtle  posted on  2010-12-03   15:24:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

I'd call out every neocon alive: William Kristol, John Podhoretz, Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle, Doug Feith. All would run away, being cowards, and lose the miniscule honor they have.

Which is exactly why dueling was outlawed. Now political scumbags and power mongers only have to answer to the justice system they own instead of every day Joe's. You can bet your ass that if they knew every decision they made could end in their death, they would be a damn site more careful of following the Constitution.

I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. - Benjamin Franklin

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2010-12-03   15:25:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

quite a character -

Wild Bill had a premonition that Deadwood would be his last camp and expressed this belief to his friend Charlie Utter (also known as Colorado Charlie), and the others who were traveling with them at the time.[38] On August 2, 1876, Hickok was playing poker at Nuttal & Mann's Saloon No. 10 in Deadwood, in the Black Hills, Dakota Territory. On this fateful day Wild Bill violated one of his own cardinal rules and was sitting with his back to a door. Twice he asked Rich to change seats with him and on both occasions Rich refused.

Wild Bill was having a run of bad luck that day and was forced to borrow a poker stake from the bartender. That run of bad luck worsened when an ex-buffalo hunter named John McCall (better known as "Jack" or “Broken Nose Jack” McCall) walked in unnoticed. Jack McCall walked to within a few feet of Wild Bill and then suddenly drew a pistol and shouted, “Take that!” before firing.

The bullet hit Hickok in the back of the head, killing him instantly. The bullet emerged through Wild Bill’s right cheek striking Captain Massie in the left wrist. Legend has it that Hickok had lost his stake and had just borrowed $50 from the house to continue playing. When shot, he was holding a pair of aces and a pair of eights, all black. The fifth card is debated, or, as some say, had been discarded and its replacement had not yet been dealt.[39]

Other cards have been mentioned, but there are four main suggestions for the fifth card.[40]

Jack of Diamonds—according to the transcripts of McCall's second trial.[41]

Nine of Diamonds—contemporary newspaper eyewitness account.

Five of Diamonds —the town of Deadwood claims this to be the card.

Queen of Clubs —Ripley's Believe It Or Not.

Lod  posted on  2010-12-03   15:26:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

As I've seen pointed out when this topic has come up before, dueling is legal in Paraguay if both parties are registered blood donors. Don't know if they allow foreigner to enter the country for this purpose. There's a proportion that might be an interesting travel opportunity.

The rules for a contest of honor are quite complex.

Code Duello: The Rules of Dueling

Reprinted from "American Duels and Hostile Encounters," Chilton Books, 1963.

The Code Duello, covering the practice of dueling and points of honor, was drawn up and settled at Clonmel Summer Assizes, 1777, by gentlemen-delegates of Tipperary, Galway, Sligo, Mayo and Roscommon, and prescribed for general adoption throughout Ireland. The Code was generally also followed in England and on the Continent with some slight variations. In America, the principal rules were followed, although occasionally there were some glaring deviations.

Rule 1. The first offense requires the first apology, though the retort may have been more offensive than the insult. Example: A tells B he is impertinent, etc. B retorts that he lies; yet A must make the first apology because he gave the first offense, and then (after one fire) B may explain away the retort by a subsequent apology.

Rule 2. But if the parties would rather fight on, then after two shots each (but in no case before), B may explain first, and A apologize afterward.

N.B. The above rules apply to all cases of offenses in retort not of stronger class than the example.

Rule 3. If a doubt exist who gave the first offense, the decision rests with the seconds; if they won't decide, or can't agree, the matter must proceed to two shots, or to a hit, if the challenger require it.

Rule 4. When the lie direct is the first offense, the aggressor must either beg pardon in express terms; exchange two shots previous to apology; or three shots followed up by explanation; or fire on till a severe hit be received by one party or the other.

Rule 5. As a blow is strictly prohibited under any circumstances among gentlemen, no verbal apology can be received for such an insult. The alternatives, therefore -- the offender handing a cane to the injured party, to be used on his own back, at the same time begging pardon; firing on until one or both are disabled; or exchanging three shots, and then asking pardon without proffer of the cane.

If swords are used, the parties engage until one is well blooded, disabled, or disarmed; or until, after receiving a wound, and blood being drawn, the aggressor begs pardon.

N.B. A disarm is considered the same as a disable. The disarmer may (strictly) break his adversary's sword; but if it be the challenger who is disarmed, it is considered as ungenerous to do so.

In the case the challenged be disarmed and refuses to ask pardon or atone, he must not be killed, as formerly; but the challenger may lay his own sword on the aggressor's shoulder, then break the aggressor's sword and say, "I spare your life!" The challenged can never revive the quarrel -- the challenger may.

Rule 6. If A gives B the lie, and B retorts by a blow (being the two greatest offenses), no reconciliation can take place till after two discharges each, or a severe hit; after which B may beg A's pardon humbly for the blow and then A may explain simply for the lie; because a blow is never allowable, and the offense of the lie, therefore, merges in it. (See preceding rules.)

N.B. Challenges for undivulged causes may be reconciled on the ground, after one shot. An explanation or the slightest hit should be sufficient in such cases, because no personal offense transpired.

Rule 7. But no apology can be received, in any case, after the parties have actually taken ground, without exchange of fires.

Rule 8. In the above case, no challenger is obliged to divulge his cause of challenge (if private) unless required by the challenged so to do before their meeting.

Rule 9. All imputations of cheating at play, races, etc., to be considered equivalent to a blow; but may be reconciled after one shot, on admitting their falsehood and begging pardon publicly.

Rule 10. Any insult to a lady under a gentleman's care or protection to be considered as, by one degree, a greater offense than if given to the gentleman personally, and to be regulated accordingly.

Rule 11. Offenses originating or accruing from the support of ladies' reputations, to be considered as less unjustifiable than any others of the same class, and as admitting of slighter apologies by the aggressor: this to be determined by the circumstances of the case, but always favorable to the lady.

Rule 12. In simple, unpremeditated recontres with the smallsword, or couteau de chasse, the rule is -- first draw, first sheath, unless blood is drawn; then both sheath, and proceed to investigation.

Rule 13. No dumb shooting or firing in the air is admissible in any case. The challenger ought not to have challenged without receiving offense; and the challenged ought, if he gave offense, to have made an apology before he came on the ground; therefore, children's play must be dishonorable on one side or the other, and is accordingly prohibited.

Rule 14. Seconds to be of equal rank in society with the principals they attend, inasmuch as a second may either choose or chance to become a principal, and equality is indispensible.

Rule 15. Challenges are never to be delivered at night, unless the party to be challenged intend leaving the place of offense before morning; for it is desirable to avoid all hot-headed proceedings.

Rule 16. The challenged has the right to choose his own weapon, unless the challenger gives his honor he is no swordsman; after which, however, he can decline any second species of weapon proposed by the challenged.

Rule 17. The challenged chooses his ground; the challenger chooses his distance; the seconds fix the time and terms of firing.

Rule 18. The seconds load in presence of each other, unless they give their mutual honors they have charged smooth and single, which should be held sufficient.

Rule 19. Firing may be regulated -- first by signal; secondly, by word of command; or thirdly, at pleasure -- as may be agreeable to the parties. In the latter case, the parties may fire at their reasonable leisure, but second presents and rests are strictly prohibited.

Rule 20. In all cases a miss-fire is equivalent to a shot, and a snap or non-cock is to be considered as a miss-fire.

Rule 21. Seconds are bound to attempt a reconciliation before the meeting takes place, or after sufficient firing or hits, as specified.

Rule 22. Any wound sufficient to agitate the nerves and necessarily make the hand shake, must end the business for that day.

Rule 23. If the cause of the meeting be of such a nature that no apology or explanation can or will be received, the challenged takes his ground, and calls on the challenger to proceed as he chooses; in such cases, firing at pleasure is the usual practice, but may be varied by agreement.

Rule 24. In slight cases, the second hands his principal but one pistol; but in gross cases, two, holding another case ready charged in reserve.

Rule 25. Where seconds disagree, and resolve to exchange shots themselves, it must be at the same time and at right angles with their principals, thus:

If with swords, side by side, with five paces interval.

N.B. All matters and doubts not herein mentioned will be explained and cleared up by application to the committee, who meet alternately at Clonmel and Galway, at the quarter sessions, for that purpose.

www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/due...ature/rulesofdueling.html

We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. - Aesop

randge  posted on  2010-12-03   15:34:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Especially my blood.

I've seen more of my blood than other people's blood.

Good thing I clot fast.

"If ever this vast country is brought under a single government, it will be one of the most extensive corruption, indifferent and incapable of a wholesome care over so wide a spread of surface. This will not be borne, and you will have to choose between reform and revolution. If I know the spirit of this country, the one or the other is inevitable." - Thomas Jefferson

Turtle  posted on  2010-12-03   15:46:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Can you imagine the reaction of some of these clowns if they actually had to stand on the field of honor? They'd be peeing their pants and playing "Black Adder" hiring someone to either assassinate their opponent before hand, poison them, etc., ....

"One of the least understood strategies of the world revolution now moving rapidly toward its goal is the use of mind control as a major means of obtaining the consent of the people who will be subjects of the New World Order." K.M. Heaton, The National Educator

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-12-03   16:25:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Non-violent Irish Home Rule activist, Daniel O'Connell, once killed a man in a duel in France, which led him to later renounce violence, and hence, his peaceful approach to activism.

Solutions for Ireland. Say NO to the IMF/World bank. Default on our debt. Print our own debt free currency. Nationalise the trillion euros worth of gas and oil off our west coast. Take back our fishing (200 billion worth). Get our farmers growing again. Done deal if our politicians had the backbone. ~ Jim Corr

irishthatcherite  posted on  2010-12-03   18:26:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

Can you imagine the reaction of some of these clowns if they actually had to stand on the field of honor?

What of Dickless Cheney? Are we to forget the daring,nay,I say,more like the stunning display of absolute bravery in gunning down the one that would take his dove? Man among men with only 5 deferrals.

paddlefeet  posted on  2010-12-03   19:21:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

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