The Senate on Saturday blocked a bill that would create a path to citizenship for certain illegal immigrant students who came to the United States as children, completed two years of college or military service and met other requirements including passing a criminal background check. The vote, 55-41 in favor of the bill, effectively kills the measure for this year, and its fate beyond that is uncertain.
Right you are, buck. I haven't a clue how this bill didn't pass, but it's a wonderful surprise as it will further anger the perpetual angry base of the socialist wing of the National Party. This rebuff to the Illegal Lobby makes me berry, berry happy.
but I believe he carries a touch of Stockholm Syndrome regarding illegals :)
you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
But remember, I am sticking with Ronald Reagan on this issue. Reagan believed in forgiving the illegals.
I feel that any civilized society has an obligation to the children that grow up in that society. Most illegal immigrants' children believe it or not grow up with English as their preferred language. They go to American schools, have american friends and think that they are American.
We allowed their parents to come here and to exist here.
But remember, I am sticking with Ronald Reagan on this issue. Reagan believed in forgiving the illegals.
They go to American schools, have american friends and think that they are American.
Reagan sold his amnesty as a measure to STOP ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION!!! How has that worked out for this nation?
Yes, the illegal children go to our pubic schools on our tax dollars, Red. Isn't that enough of a gift to them without adding the amnesty cherry on top? Our schools are now broke with vast amounts of money spent on ESL and free lunches. How's it all working out for us, Red?
don't blame me that the US congress has passed a law that protected employers who hire illegals. that was done in 1986. Don't blame me for that. and actually don't blame ronald reagan. He did not have a vote in congress. He came before the public and told everyone that the law needed to be changed to penalize employers for hiring illegals. He told everyone that congress screwed up and it needed to be fixed. I saw Reagan's speech. Don't blame me and don't blame reagan for the failure of congress.
Reagan was actually under great pressure to sign the bill. He did not come up with the idea contrary to your implication. He was also handicapped by dementia at the time and he had people surrounding him like Bush who were deceiving him. At least he came before the public and told everyone of the problem. that is a lot more than almost anyone else did.
If we had passed the legislation that reagan asked for, then these 20-30 million illegals would not be here. So don't blame him.
Reagan was actually under great pressure to sign the bill. He did not come up with the idea contrary to your implication. He was also handicapped by dementia at the time and he had people surrounding him like Bush who were deceiving him. At least he came before the public and told everyone of the problem. that is a lot more than almost anyone else did.
Spare me Red. Reagan signed it and therefore he is responsible for it. Sheesh, just a few posts up you were cheerleading Reagan as your reason for promoting amnesty.......yet, you continually omit that it was sold as a way to END ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION and has failed miserably.
yet, you continually omit that it was sold as a way to END ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION and has failed miserably.
you are mistaken. Many politicians in those days and the mass media told us that the 1986 reform legislation would end illegal immigration. But Ronald Reagan was not one such person. You are a liar. Reagan said, and I saw his speech, that we needed to pass legislation to stop the new illegals from coming. he said that at the time he signed what he said was flawed legislation. Others sold the legislation as you said, reagan did not. The rest of our establishment did as you say. but reagan was the 1 rebel who told us the truth.
if people here are going to lie outright about reagan's speech on this subject and historical events, that is OK with me. I'm not going to lie about it.
Reagan stood before the nation on national tv and told them the legislation needed to be modified or else millions of illegals would come. and then abraxas blames reagan. not acceptable.
the media and other politicians besides reagan told us the legislation would keep illegals out. Reagan himself said just the opposite. Don't blame reagan for what the others did is all I'm saying.
and as far as I'm concerned abraxas called me a liar by disputing what I said about Reagan. all I did was throw the truth back at her.
It is an absolute lie and a slander against reagan to say that reagan tried to sell anyone on that legislation. He signed very reluctantly he said in a national speech and pointed out its flaws. Just because the media has a different story-line I am supposed to believe it. screw the media and all those foolish enough to idolize it.
Here are the first two paragraphs of Reagan's signing statement for the 1986 amnesty:
Statement on Signing the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986
November 6, 1986
The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 is the most comprehensive reform of our immigration laws since 1952. In the past 35 years our nation has been increasingly affected by illegal immigration. This legislation takes a major step toward meeting this challenge to our sovereignty. At the same time, it preserves and enhances the Nation's heritage of legal immigration. I am pleased to sign the bill into law.
In 1981 this administration asked the Congress to pass a comprehensive legislative package, including employer sanctions, other measures to increase enforcement of the immigration laws, and legalization. The act provides these three essential components. The employer sanctions program is the keystone and major element. It will remove the incentive for illegal immigration by eliminating the job opportunities which draw illegal aliens here. We have consistently supported a legalization program which is both generous to the alien and fair to the countless thousands of people throughout the world who seek legally to come to America. The legalization provisions in this act will go far to improve the lives of a class of individuals who now must hide in the shadows, without access to many of the benefits of a free and open society. Very soon many of these men and women will be able to step into the sunlight and, ultimately, if they choose, they may become Americans.
Here's a link to the entire protest free Reagan document:
I saw reagan's speech to the nation on this subject. I remember what he said. The 1'st 2 paragraphs of that signing statement may not have been the same as the speech I saw. and it does not contradit what I saw either.
you go believe in your fables if you want.
it isn't just my memory. The wall street journal described reagan's position at the time and the conflict between him and senate republicans who were the people who insisted the employers not be punished for hiring illegals. reagan took a different stand on that point.
Only a liar paints it different.
the passages you put up have nothing to do with penalties to employers. reagan asked for such penalties. and you are a liar to characterize it otherwise.
the wall street journal at the time specifically said that both reagan and House democrats wanted penalties for employers and that they were frustrated by senate republicans. the media conveniently failed to communicate this stuff to us. and you badger me for not being steeped in the media's fables about reagan and this issue.
by disputing my version you have called me a liar, and you did it with a mocking attitude that was rude. All I have done is throw it back in your face with the truth and correctly called you a liar - which you are.
The wall street journal described reagan's position
Only a liar paints it different.
by disputing my version you have called me a liar, and you did it with a mocking attitude that was rude.
Post the speech content, your recall lacks credibility.
Then, by all means, post the WSJ recap for the lot of us.
Oh, really? I painted Reagan's SIGNING STATEMENT. Was he a liar? Go to the link I provided and read the ENTIRE document that details Reagan's position on EVERY ASPECT OF THE BILL. How can I lie about REAGAN'S SIGNING STATEMENT? It is what it is. He said it. He signed it.
lol......your recall has proven again and again and again to lack credibility. Do I call you a liar because of this? No. But while you call other posters on fuzzy memory I simply have taken you to the mat for your own with documentation BY REAGAN that proves you are wrong.
You want to talk about rude after you called me a liar?
I can't take anything you say seriously. the media sells you on a false story and you want to blame me for not being sold the same.
The 2 paragraphs you put up had nothing to do with the discussion. You've been dealing with me in bad faith.
It is likely that it would be very difficult to find on the internet a speech made by reagan in 1986. or impossible. yet you demand that I do this just because you are an ignoramus with your feelings hurt over me exposing the fact that you were sold lies.
the media sold a story-line on this issue - that somehow our government tried to stop illegals from coming and by magic cannot succeed. No, they never tried. I am an eye-witness to that history. who you going to believe, me or that television? big decision.
I really don't care what you believe. but you should be polite to others. I do not believe you met that standard in 32 if you look at the context of the situation. If you don't believe me, then say so without rudeness and indignation or insults. If you treat me that way, then I will treat you that way - which I have done.
It is likely that it would be very difficult to find on the internet a speech made by reagan in 1986. or impossible. yet you demand that I do this just because you are an ignoramus with your feelings hurt over me exposing the fact that you were sold lies.
in that list of speeches there are 3 from 1986. but none on the subject we're talking of.
if you want to call me a liar and believe the man on the tv you can. reagan came on tv before he signed that bill and told of is flaws and warned, just like I said.
and the wall street journal explained it too, made quite clear that millions of illegals would come here.
these sources are not available on the iternet. you can't find them, I can't find them. I told you that in the beginning when you first ridiculed me for not putting them up.
the legislation has provisions in it that do provide for sanctions against employers. However, these provisions are ineffective and useless (purposely so). I know that is a huge intellectual problem for someone like you with a small bigoted mind. But it means that reagan's signing statement was technically true. it also does not contradict what he'd previously said that the law was very flawed and needed to be changed.
as I said, in 1986 reagan was not normal. He had dementia and people around him were able to manipulate him. but reagan said what he said and you can call me a liar all you want. I have respect for Reagan's position, he gave us a solution that was good. Bush and the other republicans completely swept his solution away and have allowed the illegals in. The democrats have failed to efectively oppose the republicans who purposely let them in.
that is historical fact, not my opinion.
You choose to believe the story-line of the television propaganda rather than an eye-witness. and you mock and ridicule me for not going along with your garbage.
No, your opinion is that the dementia was impacting him in 1986, which you have offered not one iota of documentation to back your claim. The historical fact is that the dementia came on after he fell off a horse in 1989 and suffered injury to his brain. Now you think you know more than Reagan's doctors.