The Senate on Saturday blocked a bill that would create a path to citizenship for certain illegal immigrant students who came to the United States as children, completed two years of college or military service and met other requirements including passing a criminal background check. The vote, 55-41 in favor of the bill, effectively kills the measure for this year, and its fate beyond that is uncertain.
Right you are, buck. I haven't a clue how this bill didn't pass, but it's a wonderful surprise as it will further anger the perpetual angry base of the socialist wing of the National Party. This rebuff to the Illegal Lobby makes me berry, berry happy.
but I believe he carries a touch of Stockholm Syndrome regarding illegals :)
you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
But remember, I am sticking with Ronald Reagan on this issue. Reagan believed in forgiving the illegals.
I feel that any civilized society has an obligation to the children that grow up in that society. Most illegal immigrants' children believe it or not grow up with English as their preferred language. They go to American schools, have american friends and think that they are American.
We allowed their parents to come here and to exist here.
But remember, I am sticking with Ronald Reagan on this issue. Reagan believed in forgiving the illegals.
They go to American schools, have american friends and think that they are American.
Reagan sold his amnesty as a measure to STOP ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION!!! How has that worked out for this nation?
Yes, the illegal children go to our pubic schools on our tax dollars, Red. Isn't that enough of a gift to them without adding the amnesty cherry on top? Our schools are now broke with vast amounts of money spent on ESL and free lunches. How's it all working out for us, Red?
don't blame me that the US congress has passed a law that protected employers who hire illegals. that was done in 1986. Don't blame me for that. and actually don't blame ronald reagan. He did not have a vote in congress. He came before the public and told everyone that the law needed to be changed to penalize employers for hiring illegals. He told everyone that congress screwed up and it needed to be fixed. I saw Reagan's speech. Don't blame me and don't blame reagan for the failure of congress.
Reagan was actually under great pressure to sign the bill. He did not come up with the idea contrary to your implication. He was also handicapped by dementia at the time and he had people surrounding him like Bush who were deceiving him. At least he came before the public and told everyone of the problem. that is a lot more than almost anyone else did.
If we had passed the legislation that reagan asked for, then these 20-30 million illegals would not be here. So don't blame him.
Reagan was actually under great pressure to sign the bill. He did not come up with the idea contrary to your implication. He was also handicapped by dementia at the time and he had people surrounding him like Bush who were deceiving him. At least he came before the public and told everyone of the problem. that is a lot more than almost anyone else did.
Spare me Red. Reagan signed it and therefore he is responsible for it. Sheesh, just a few posts up you were cheerleading Reagan as your reason for promoting amnesty.......yet, you continually omit that it was sold as a way to END ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION and has failed miserably.
yet, you continually omit that it was sold as a way to END ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION and has failed miserably.
you are mistaken. Many politicians in those days and the mass media told us that the 1986 reform legislation would end illegal immigration. But Ronald Reagan was not one such person. You are a liar. Reagan said, and I saw his speech, that we needed to pass legislation to stop the new illegals from coming. he said that at the time he signed what he said was flawed legislation. Others sold the legislation as you said, reagan did not. The rest of our establishment did as you say. but reagan was the 1 rebel who told us the truth.
if people here are going to lie outright about reagan's speech on this subject and historical events, that is OK with me. I'm not going to lie about it.
Reagan stood before the nation on national tv and told them the legislation needed to be modified or else millions of illegals would come. and then abraxas blames reagan. not acceptable.
the media and other politicians besides reagan told us the legislation would keep illegals out. Reagan himself said just the opposite. Don't blame reagan for what the others did is all I'm saying.
and as far as I'm concerned abraxas called me a liar by disputing what I said about Reagan. all I did was throw the truth back at her.
It is an absolute lie and a slander against reagan to say that reagan tried to sell anyone on that legislation. He signed very reluctantly he said in a national speech and pointed out its flaws. Just because the media has a different story-line I am supposed to believe it. screw the media and all those foolish enough to idolize it.
Here are the first two paragraphs of Reagan's signing statement for the 1986 amnesty:
Statement on Signing the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986
November 6, 1986
The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 is the most comprehensive reform of our immigration laws since 1952. In the past 35 years our nation has been increasingly affected by illegal immigration. This legislation takes a major step toward meeting this challenge to our sovereignty. At the same time, it preserves and enhances the Nation's heritage of legal immigration. I am pleased to sign the bill into law.
In 1981 this administration asked the Congress to pass a comprehensive legislative package, including employer sanctions, other measures to increase enforcement of the immigration laws, and legalization. The act provides these three essential components. The employer sanctions program is the keystone and major element. It will remove the incentive for illegal immigration by eliminating the job opportunities which draw illegal aliens here. We have consistently supported a legalization program which is both generous to the alien and fair to the countless thousands of people throughout the world who seek legally to come to America. The legalization provisions in this act will go far to improve the lives of a class of individuals who now must hide in the shadows, without access to many of the benefits of a free and open society. Very soon many of these men and women will be able to step into the sunlight and, ultimately, if they choose, they may become Americans.
Here's a link to the entire protest free Reagan document:
I saw reagan's speech to the nation on this subject. I remember what he said. The 1'st 2 paragraphs of that signing statement may not have been the same as the speech I saw. and it does not contradit what I saw either.
you go believe in your fables if you want.
it isn't just my memory. The wall street journal described reagan's position at the time and the conflict between him and senate republicans who were the people who insisted the employers not be punished for hiring illegals. reagan took a different stand on that point.
Only a liar paints it different.
the passages you put up have nothing to do with penalties to employers. reagan asked for such penalties. and you are a liar to characterize it otherwise.
the wall street journal at the time specifically said that both reagan and House democrats wanted penalties for employers and that they were frustrated by senate republicans. the media conveniently failed to communicate this stuff to us. and you badger me for not being steeped in the media's fables about reagan and this issue.
by disputing my version you have called me a liar, and you did it with a mocking attitude that was rude. All I have done is throw it back in your face with the truth and correctly called you a liar - which you are.
The wall street journal described reagan's position
Only a liar paints it different.
by disputing my version you have called me a liar, and you did it with a mocking attitude that was rude.
Post the speech content, your recall lacks credibility.
Then, by all means, post the WSJ recap for the lot of us.
Oh, really? I painted Reagan's SIGNING STATEMENT. Was he a liar? Go to the link I provided and read the ENTIRE document that details Reagan's position on EVERY ASPECT OF THE BILL. How can I lie about REAGAN'S SIGNING STATEMENT? It is what it is. He said it. He signed it.
lol......your recall has proven again and again and again to lack credibility. Do I call you a liar because of this? No. But while you call other posters on fuzzy memory I simply have taken you to the mat for your own with documentation BY REAGAN that proves you are wrong.
You want to talk about rude after you called me a liar?
Then, by all means, post the WSJ recap for the lot of us.
you're an idiot. articles from back then are not on the net. and you're the one that wants to see the info, I've already seen it.
if you're asking me to verbally explain what the WSJ said about it back then, I've already done that like 10 times including in this thread.
I skimmed through what you said were first 2 paragraphs of signing statement. it was not speaking the things I saw in his speech to the nation on that subject.
I told you twice, the man had dementia.
You can't tolerate simple reality. and you can't be polite to people. You're the one who first called me a liar by mocking and ridiculing my story-line in favor of the propaganda line that our mass media sells us. and you don't have the integrity even try to go look for the info yourself. and I've explained to you twice that this info may not be available as it does go against the story- line we're supposed to believe.
its not worth taking you seriously because your mind doesn't function and you're disrespectful.
you're an idiot. articles from back then are not on the net. and you're the one that wants to see the info, I've already seen it.
I skimmed through what you said were first 2 paragraphs
You can't tolerate simple reality. and you can't be polite to people
and you don't have the integrity even try to go look for the info yourself.
Oh, like his speeches aren't on the Internet? Look Red, I'm sick of your insults, your sandbox shinanigans, your name calling.......
Isn't this all the same crap you "supposedly" deplored over at Robin's Nest?
No, for the umpteenth time, I'm not asking for your verbal account or your fuzzy memory account of anything. BACK UP THE CRAP YOU ARE SPEWING IN THIS THREAD WITH DOCUMENTATION!!! Can it get any clearer than that?
I posted the ENTIRE SIGNING STATEMENT which refutes your claims the Reagan wasn't attempting via this legislation to tackle the employee and employer problems.......that resulted in EPIC FAILURE.
I've already documented CLEARLY with EVIDENCE that dementia was not a factor in 1986.
Tell it to yourself Red. I've posted REAGAN'S OWN WORDS. Can't get more real than than. I've been more polite than you deserve after all of your insults and sandbox shinanigans on this thread.
I have looked up all your claims Red. Why don't you try doing the same? From the signing statement, to vids from his debate, to documentation of his dementia onset--I've PROVIDED DOCUMENTATION AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. Why don't you work on your own integrity? Perhaps, you have none.
that is correct. the link you put up and said included the speech I referred to does not include the speech I referred to. I have spent some time looking for that speech. I have found that the bulk of reagan's speeches you can get if you pay fees for. Only a few are actually available for free. and as for the one that I was interested in,it would have beenmade in very early November, 1986 immediately prior to signing the legislation. It is simply not listed even in the Reagan Library. no surprise to me. I warned you that this was likely the case.
the signing statement quote you put up is not what I was referring to. you think it significant that reagan read a statement about the bill, a statement written by others, it means nothing. You should pay attention to reagan's warning to us he made in the national tv appearance where he specifically said the legislation was faulty and needed to be changed.
You also ridiculed my memory of the 1986 wall street journal editorial that addressed that legislation. You ridiculed that I had not put up a link to it. They have no links to 1986 articles.
In all of this you've dealt with me in bad faith. For example you said you had put up documentation, but your documentation is irrelevant to the story I told.
The wall street journal specifically stated that it was well known that fraudulent documents would be made on a large scale. The wall street journal specifically stated that the law was modified on the insistence of republican leadership in the senate so that employers would not be forced to check a central database to see if the docs were real. the wsj specifically said the law would protect employers who took photo-copies of docs and if the docs merely look real the employer is in the clear. The wsj specifically said this would lead to massive new illegal immigration. I remember that article. You say I am a liar. Yet you don't put up proof. You ridicule me for not doing so, but there are no links available - because it was 1986.
I did find an article by Ed meese written in 2006 in the NYT that said the employer sanctions provisions were never enforced. meese is an establishment republican, loyal to the cause of guest workers. he was not honest, he should have said the law was faulty from the beginning.
It is a big story-line that we are supposed to believe that somehow we just can't stop employers from hiring illegals. We can. I've tried to communicate that and this has upset you. and not just you, many people at this site are upset at these simple truths I've spoken. it has upset you and them because you buy the big story-line that we're sold in the propaganda, that we just can't stop employers from hiring illegals. It is false, but you love your fables.
If we wanted a solution, then we would look to reagan's solution of amnesty combined with employer sanctions. South Carolina has proven that employer audits work.
In Arizona we've turned over 131 illegal immigrants to the federal government in 3 years' time. You and many stupid idiots believe that is the best we can do. And I can put up a link (if you insist) to show that only 131 illegals were turned over by Arizona in 3 years' time. I have already put up such a link here. I have also put up a link showing that the South Carolina strategy works.
and I have personally witnessed that employers have no fear of hiring people that they know are illegal and do it every do - because there are no real penalties for doing so.
i've also put up a link showing that bush did virtually nothing to punish employers for hiring illegals and that with Obama's stepped up enforcement it is only $3 million in fines handed out in a whole year by our federal gov for hiring illegals.
There's never been any real effort to stop the illegals from coming in. plain and simple. reagan did warn us about it, I saw him. You want to call me a liar on this point because there is no video on the internet. you're very naive. lots of things get censored in history.
Reagan should have repeated this claim in his signing statement. He did not. but as I said, he had dementia and was influenced/controlled by people around him.