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Immigration
See other Immigration Articles

Title: Senate Blocks Bill for Illegal Immigrant Students
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/us/politics/19immig.html
Published: Dec 18, 2010
Author: DAVID M. HERSZENHORN
Post Date: 2010-12-18 13:19:42 by Jethro Tull
Keywords: None
Views: 1689
Comments: 162

Senate Blocks Bill for Illegal Immigrant Students

By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN

Published: December 18, 2010

The Senate on Saturday blocked a bill that would create a path to citizenship for certain illegal immigrant students who came to the United States as children, completed two years of college or military service and met other requirements including passing a criminal background check. The vote, 55-41 in favor of the bill, effectively kills the measure for this year, and its fate beyond that is uncertain.

-Snip


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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 121.

#3. To: Jethro Tull (#0)

Why on Earth does Congress consider these "freebies" during America's sunset as a global empire?

Rhetorically, they have their own heads up their asses while the nation is hemorrhaging to death based upon their own doings.

buckeroo  posted on  2010-12-18   13:27:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: buckeroo (#3)

Right you are, buck. I haven't a clue how this bill didn't pass, but it's a wonderful surprise as it will further anger the perpetual angry base of the socialist wing of the National Party. This rebuff to the Illegal Lobby makes me berry, berry happy.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2010-12-18   13:33:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Jethro Tull, Red Jones (#4)

This rebuff to the Illegal Lobby makes me berry, berry happy.

You are not alone. However... Red Jones might have a sad face.

buckeroo  posted on  2010-12-18   13:49:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: buckeroo, Red Jones, 4 (#5)

Red, has many fine qualities, but I believe he carries a touch of Stockholm Syndrome regarding illegals :)

Jethro Tull  posted on  2010-12-18   13:52:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Jethro Tull (#6)

but I believe he carries a touch of Stockholm Syndrome regarding illegals :)

you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

But remember, I am sticking with Ronald Reagan on this issue. Reagan believed in forgiving the illegals.

I feel that any civilized society has an obligation to the children that grow up in that society. Most illegal immigrants' children believe it or not grow up with English as their preferred language. They go to American schools, have american friends and think that they are American.

We allowed their parents to come here and to exist here.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-12-18   13:59:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Red Jones (#7)

But remember, I am sticking with Ronald Reagan on this issue. Reagan believed in forgiving the illegals.

They go to American schools, have american friends and think that they are American.

Reagan sold his amnesty as a measure to STOP ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION!!! How has that worked out for this nation?

Yes, the illegal children go to our pubic schools on our tax dollars, Red. Isn't that enough of a gift to them without adding the amnesty cherry on top? Our schools are now broke with vast amounts of money spent on ESL and free lunches. How's it all working out for us, Red?

abraxas  posted on  2010-12-18   22:07:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: abraxas (#19)

don't blame me that the US congress has passed a law that protected employers who hire illegals. that was done in 1986. Don't blame me for that. and actually don't blame ronald reagan. He did not have a vote in congress. He came before the public and told everyone that the law needed to be changed to penalize employers for hiring illegals. He told everyone that congress screwed up and it needed to be fixed. I saw Reagan's speech. Don't blame me and don't blame reagan for the failure of congress.

Reagan was actually under great pressure to sign the bill. He did not come up with the idea contrary to your implication. He was also handicapped by dementia at the time and he had people surrounding him like Bush who were deceiving him. At least he came before the public and told everyone of the problem. that is a lot more than almost anyone else did.

If we had passed the legislation that reagan asked for, then these 20-30 million illegals would not be here. So don't blame him.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-12-18   22:16:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Red Jones (#21)

Reagan was actually under great pressure to sign the bill. He did not come up with the idea contrary to your implication. He was also handicapped by dementia at the time and he had people surrounding him like Bush who were deceiving him. At least he came before the public and told everyone of the problem. that is a lot more than almost anyone else did.

Spare me Red. Reagan signed it and therefore he is responsible for it. Sheesh, just a few posts up you were cheerleading Reagan as your reason for promoting amnesty.......yet, you continually omit that it was sold as a way to END ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION and has failed miserably.

abraxas  posted on  2010-12-18   22:20:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: abraxas (#24)

yet, you continually omit that it was sold as a way to END ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION and has failed miserably.

you are mistaken. Many politicians in those days and the mass media told us that the 1986 reform legislation would end illegal immigration. But Ronald Reagan was not one such person. You are a liar. Reagan said, and I saw his speech, that we needed to pass legislation to stop the new illegals from coming. he said that at the time he signed what he said was flawed legislation. Others sold the legislation as you said, reagan did not. The rest of our establishment did as you say. but reagan was the 1 rebel who told us the truth.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-12-18   22:24:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Red Jones (#28)

Red -

I know that your feelings and positions on this matter are strong, but to call another member a liar is beneath you.

Lod  posted on  2010-12-18   22:34:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Lod (#36)

if people here are going to lie outright about reagan's speech on this subject and historical events, that is OK with me. I'm not going to lie about it.

Reagan stood before the nation on national tv and told them the legislation needed to be modified or else millions of illegals would come. and then abraxas blames reagan. not acceptable.

the media and other politicians besides reagan told us the legislation would keep illegals out. Reagan himself said just the opposite. Don't blame reagan for what the others did is all I'm saying.

and as far as I'm concerned abraxas called me a liar by disputing what I said about Reagan. all I did was throw the truth back at her.

It is an absolute lie and a slander against reagan to say that reagan tried to sell anyone on that legislation. He signed very reluctantly he said in a national speech and pointed out its flaws. Just because the media has a different story-line I am supposed to believe it. screw the media and all those foolish enough to idolize it.

and don't blame me if your memories are so fuzzy.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-12-18   22:43:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: Red Jones (#45)

and don't blame me if your memories are so fuzzy.

You have a fuzzy memory Red:

Here are the first two paragraphs of Reagan's signing statement for the 1986 amnesty:

Statement on Signing the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986

November 6, 1986

The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 is the most comprehensive reform of our immigration laws since 1952. In the past 35 years our nation has been increasingly affected by illegal immigration. This legislation takes a major step toward meeting this challenge to our sovereignty. At the same time, it preserves and enhances the Nation's heritage of legal immigration. I am pleased to sign the bill into law.

In 1981 this administration asked the Congress to pass a comprehensive legislative package, including employer sanctions, other measures to increase enforcement of the immigration laws, and legalization. The act provides these three essential components. The employer sanctions program is the keystone and major element. It will remove the incentive for illegal immigration by eliminating the job opportunities which draw illegal aliens here. We have consistently supported a legalization program which is both generous to the alien and fair to the countless thousands of people throughout the world who seek legally to come to America. The legalization provisions in this act will go far to improve the lives of a class of individuals who now must hide in the shadows, without access to many of the benefits of a free and open society. Very soon many of these men and women will be able to step into the sunlight and, ultimately, if they choose, they may become Americans.

Here's a link to the entire protest free Reagan document:

www.reaga n.utexas.edu/arc...speeches/1986/110686b.htm

abraxas  posted on  2010-12-18   22:59:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: abraxas (#56)

I saw reagan's speech to the nation on this subject. I remember what he said. The 1'st 2 paragraphs of that signing statement may not have been the same as the speech I saw. and it does not contradit what I saw either.

you go believe in your fables if you want.

it isn't just my memory. The wall street journal described reagan's position at the time and the conflict between him and senate republicans who were the people who insisted the employers not be punished for hiring illegals. reagan took a different stand on that point.

Only a liar paints it different.

the passages you put up have nothing to do with penalties to employers. reagan asked for such penalties. and you are a liar to characterize it otherwise.

the wall street journal at the time specifically said that both reagan and House democrats wanted penalties for employers and that they were frustrated by senate republicans. the media conveniently failed to communicate this stuff to us. and you badger me for not being steeped in the media's fables about reagan and this issue.

by disputing my version you have called me a liar, and you did it with a mocking attitude that was rude. All I have done is throw it back in your face with the truth and correctly called you a liar - which you are.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-12-18   23:09:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: All (#65)

what abraxas said in 32 was mocking and ridicule. and it was also a lie. Reagan was not the one who made the legislation that let the illegals come. She said that Reagan said the legislation would stop illegals. the truth is completely the opposite. reagan came on tv, he said the legislation was very seriously flawed and that it neglected to stop illegals. he said that some were saying that it would, but that this was not true. he said this right on national tv. I can't help it if abraxas buys the propaganda. I was not the one who started the rudeness. i just refuse to tolerate it.

then abraxas put up these 1'st 2 paragraphs of a signing statement that were completely irrelevant to the question.

Reagan was far from perfect, but he was a legitimate American leader with sentiment for our country. People who slander him because they believe fables sold by an anti-American clique dominating our media I don't have much patience for. Especially when they go out of their way to be rude and insulting to me. and that is how I view #32.

People here are making the argument that it is impossible for the US government to stop employers from hiring illegals. She said that Reagan tried and failed, that is a lie. the US government has never tried to systematically penalize employers for hiring illegals. You are liars to say otherwise.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-12-18   23:22:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: Red Jones, Abraxas, all (#74)

what abraxas said in 32 was mocking and ridicule. and it was also a lie.

Red...

Forget the rhetoric, apologize to the lady, its easy, try it.

Raise your stature here among men.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-12-18   23:26:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: Cynicom (#76)

cyni, you said I was a free-loader and a side-liner. You fought in America's wars. i have not done so. And I am sincere in saying that I will not do so until the foreigners invade here - regardless of any draft or police action against me. that is the only time I will fight - when they invade us. you mocked my sincerity and called me a free-loader.

Forgive me for telling you, but I can't really take your requests seriously.

Our government has made no attempt to keep the illegals out. reagan warned us. He was the only one who did. I'll speak the truth for the truth's sake. too bad if you don't like it.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-12-18   23:42:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Red Jones (#84)

cyni, you said I was a free-loader and a side-liner.

Red...

Your words, you did not serve, would not serve.

That is a red flag to anyone that DID SERVE. We endured millions of free riders and side liners, WE PAID WITH OUR LIVES AND BLOOD.

It is not a bitter memory Red, it is a factual memory, there were untold free riders. Your words, you did not serve, would not serve, yet chances are you participated in this government that took the lives of a brother and untold friends.

Tell that to any one that did their turn, anyone, you will get and deserve the same response.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-12-18   23:58:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: Cynicom, abraxas, Red Jones (#90)

Red's one of the good guys. So are many others that didn't or don't serve the evil elite.

wudidiz  posted on  2010-12-19   3:01:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: wudidiz, Cynicom, Red Jones (#98)

Red's one of the good guys

Good guys don't call others liars and idiots simply because they cannot produce any evidence or documentation to substantiate their fuzzy memory on issues.

abraxas  posted on  2010-12-19   11:41:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#121. To: abraxas (#116)

Good guys don't call others liars and idiots

that may be true. but you are a liar and an idiot. and I said so because what you said in 32 is in bad faith, and a lie.

I'll say it again, we've never tried to stop the illegals from coming here, never had legislation to do so. only fake legislation that some stupid people were fooled by. We had massive propaganda to convince those stupid people that we tried, but we never tried.

I did find the NYT editorial by Meese that openly said there was no serious effort to keep the illegals out. if you want to find that editorial you can also. but it is obvious to the casual observer based on a preponderance of evidence that we never tried to keep them out. and Meese was the Attorney General at the time, so he should know.

You know some say we should be able to disagree politely. that is true. I don't think #32 was polite, it was mocking and ridicule. All I did after that was tell the truth in less polite fashion. But I told the truth.

Red Jones  posted on  2010-12-19   16:29:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 121.

#124. To: Red Jones (#121)

what you said in 32 is in bad faith, and a lie.

I did find the NYT editorial by Meese that openly said there was no serious effort to keep the illegals out.

You best go read 32 again. There is no insulting, no name calling, no sandbox shinanigans. It is a clear RESPONSE TO YOUR POST, Red. Are you saying your post was a lie? If so, I agree.

Why don't you refute the COMMENTARY of 32, rather than whining and sniveling and injecting personal woes and hurt widdle feelers into the discussion that are NOT IN THE CONTENT OF THE POST?

When I wrote 32, I assumed you were an adult who could participate in an adult confersation. In hind sight, I way over-estimated your discourse abilities.

Yeah, you keep spewing your opinion with no documentation expecting the lot of us to deem it credible. Well, I don't. I've refuted your fuzzy memories and opinions time and again....while you have yet to prove yourself correct even once.

I've read Meese's hindsight commentary, Red. It only proves the points I have made all along. Why don't you post it for the lot of us? Because you know it proves you wrong again.

abraxas  posted on  2010-12-19 21:17:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 121.

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