See other Immigration Articles
Title: Senate Blocks Bill for Illegal Immigrant Students
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URL Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/us/politics/19immig.html
Published: Dec 18, 2010
Author: DAVID M. HERSZENHORN
Post Date: 2010-12-18 13:19:42 by Jethro Tull
Keywords: None
Views: 1743
Comments: 162
Senate Blocks Bill for Illegal Immigrant Students By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN Published: December 18, 2010 The Senate on Saturday blocked a bill that would create a path to citizenship for certain illegal immigrant students who came to the United States as children, completed two years of college or military service and met other requirements including passing a criminal background check. The vote, 55-41 in favor of the bill, effectively kills the measure for this year, and its fate beyond that is uncertain. -Snip
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#87. To: wudidiz (#85)
in 1986 reagan came on tv to explain his signing of the immigration reform bill. In that speech he laid out the flaws of that legislation - that it did not penalzie employers for hiring illegals. he said the idea of giving amnesty and stopping new illegals was good. he said that the legislation failed to carry through and actually stop the new ones. He strongly recommended that legislation be passed to correct this. yet he still signed the legislation. how many times do I have to repeat the very same thing?
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
Okay, I was just trying to help.
Above is Reagan promoting what he deemed necessary in regards to border security, immigration and amnesty at the POTUS debate......but he didn't produce a bill that did what he claimed was necessary. Oddly enough, he made three separate agenda speeches in 1986, beyond the State of the Nation.......but not one specifically about Amnesty. Imagine that? Perhaps this is because his SIGNING STATEMENT SAYS IT ALL, Red. Why should I "share" with you Red? I'm the only one who has contributed ANY documentation regarding this issue. All you have is "fuzzy memories" that lack credibility and have already been proven to be in err. You are outright proven wrong and your only retaliation is insults, innuendo, and tirades fit for a sandbox.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Red... Your words, you did not serve, would not serve. That is a red flag to anyone that DID SERVE. We endured millions of free riders and side liners, WE PAID WITH OUR LIVES AND BLOOD. It is not a bitter memory Red, it is a factual memory, there were untold free riders. Your words, you did not serve, would not serve, yet chances are you participated in this government that took the lives of a brother and untold friends. Tell that to any one that did their turn, anyone, you will get and deserve the same response.
On November 6, 1986, he issued the signing statement for the legislation which I have already posted in its entirety. However, Red completely IGNORES the context while relying on his fuzzy memory to refute what Reagan plainly stated.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Prune juice or orange juice. Muselix or Raisin Bran. Decisions, decisions.... :-o
__________________________________________________________ Lod aint that olde...yet. hehehehehehe
Just trying to help him along ;-)
__________________________________________________________ Dont let this get around but Mrs. Lod is trying to wean Lod off the gin bottle to the prune juice. hehehehehehe
"I supported this bill. I believe in the idea of amnesty for those that have put down roots and lived here even though some time back they may have entered illegally." Well, there are you then. There ain't much more to say.
I think part of the reaction against it is that people are just fed up. They are tired of the government not enforcing the border, and they are tired of supporting the horde. I also believe that the attitude of a lot of people was that this was the "Camel's nose". I have sympathy for the kids who have adapted and become part of this culture and feel like this is their home - that they identify with America not Mexico. I think I commented early on that an accomodation could be made, but this wasn't it.
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
Red's one of the good guys. So are many others that didn't or don't serve the evil elite.
we never did have a police state type border. it has always been an open border. the problem is not the border. the problem is failure to audit employers' payrolls and punish them for hiring illegals as well as make it very easy for them to screen out illegals. the e-verify system today has fallen apart in that its information is not reliable. a person can pass e-verify and still be an illegal immigrant. that happens with either sabotage or neglect of raw data. and government controls that database. ronald reagan was opposed to building a wall on the border. he said it was offensive.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
the people who want to spend a fortune on the border are the same people who want to bring in guest workers. it is a stupid thing to think that they are trying to protect us from illegals. that is what they sell us on tv. in America a few years ago there used to be local talk-radio people in Las Vegas, Phoenix & Texas who each were 100% devoted to talking about illegals. all that talk and useless too because they didn't bother to tell the people that the employers need to be punished and were not being punished for hiring illegals. you don't get all those talk radio shows focusing like that unless the people who rule are behind it. a whole industry built up to offend the new immigrants and divide us up, at the same time a purposely useless movement that can't pull its own head out of its own asshole. they advocate voting for politicians who want to bring in guest workers. and fool us into spending a ton of money on border police/walls.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
you're an idiot. articles from back then are not on the net. and you're the one that wants to see the info, I've already seen it. if you're asking me to verbally explain what the WSJ said about it back then, I've already done that like 10 times including in this thread. I skimmed through what you said were first 2 paragraphs of signing statement. it was not speaking the things I saw in his speech to the nation on that subject. I told you twice, the man had dementia. You can't tolerate simple reality. and you can't be polite to people. You're the one who first called me a liar by mocking and ridiculing my story-line in favor of the propaganda line that our mass media sells us. and you don't have the integrity even try to go look for the info yourself. and I've explained to you twice that this info may not be available as it does go against the story- line we're supposed to believe. its not worth taking you seriously because your mind doesn't function and you're disrespectful.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
I looked again at that signing statement. so reagan said that the law had provisions for employer sanctions. I've explained to you that I've witnessed that employers routinely hire illegals without any penalty, that they are not afraid of hiring illegals, that they know how to do it and it does not bother them. There are no sanctions of significance and there never were. there is no real effort to stop illegals from coming here. that is reality. It doesn't matter what reagan's signing statement says. you're an idiot. the man characterizes the law falsely and you choose to believe that his false characterization is true. the man had dementia. he was easily influenced by people around him. He gave a speech saying that we needed to modify the law to penalize employers. I saw the speech. I also read in the wall street journal how it went. and I have shared that with you many times. you believe the story told by those who rule, that somehow we tried our best to keep illegals out and it didn't work. we never even tried. according to some idiot jerk I'm to be ridiculed and mocked just for seeing the truth. No, I'll be rude and disrespectful to you in kind and I will call you a liar as you did to me. only difference is, you are the real liar if you follow the context of the situation. you simply want your comfortable cocoon where you can complain and throw mud at illegals without any effect. someone that upsets tha comfortable cocoon by telling you the truth you can't tolerate.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
free-loader is your description, not mine. in using that term to describe me you are making strong judgments about something you know nothing about. and you are not my judge.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
in that list of speeches there are 3 from 1986. but none on the subject we're talking of. if you want to call me a liar and believe the man on the tv you can. reagan came on tv before he signed that bill and told of is flaws and warned, just like I said. and the wall street journal explained it too, made quite clear that millions of illegals would come here. these sources are not available on the iternet. you can't find them, I can't find them. I told you that in the beginning when you first ridiculed me for not putting them up. the legislation has provisions in it that do provide for sanctions against employers. However, these provisions are ineffective and useless (purposely so). I know that is a huge intellectual problem for someone like you with a small bigoted mind. But it means that reagan's signing statement was technically true. it also does not contradict what he'd previously said that the law was very flawed and needed to be changed. as I said, in 1986 reagan was not normal. He had dementia and people around him were able to manipulate him. but reagan said what he said and you can call me a liar all you want. I have respect for Reagan's position, he gave us a solution that was good. Bush and the other republicans completely swept his solution away and have allowed the illegals in. The democrats have failed to efectively oppose the republicans who purposely let them in. that is historical fact, not my opinion. You choose to believe the story-line of the television propaganda rather than an eye-witness. and you mock and ridicule me for not going along with your garbage.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
Red... You call others liars, then refute your own words. By willfully stating you did not and will not serve, you placed yourself in a category of Americans that few care to entertain. The normal word is draft dodger or slacker. Both are intentionally demeaning. The terms I used are most descriptive, sideliners or free riders. For whatever reason, you refuse to serve. Usually it is religion, it does not make you a slacker, IT DOES MAKE YOU A FREE RIDER, AS YOU GET A PASS WHILE I AM OFF TO BLEED AND DIE. Conscientious Objector???? Those are called cowards. You brought up a subject that had NOTHING to do with calling someone a liar. A gentleman would have apologized , unless you care to be known otherwise. Once more Red, stop evading your own words, apologize as you should.
wud... If Red is one of the elite, there is not a problem. If he is one of the masses, there is a problem. He is a free rider, slacker, coward, side liner or whatever. Evil government or no, the masses ARE NEVER GIVEN A CHOICE. In an all out world war, right or wrong, such people cannot and will not be allowed to draw a pass. Refuse to serve, and you will pay a price, that is reality. I recall in WW2 when middle age men had no objections to the kids 18 being dragged off to war, then the age limit was raised up, age by age until men 39 years olde were being dragged away. Men to age 65 were forced to register for possible service, military or otherwise. My goodness, how their tune changed, let someone else serve not me. We have an evil government, no one gets a pass, no one, we all walk the walk, no free riders.
LOL What the *** **** are you talking about?
What the *** **** are you talking about? Cyni, sorry, with all due respect :D
So's Cyni and ab. Of the good guys that is.
I will agree that you have a point. and that the 'free-loader' label is not so bad or inaccurate in a way. but I also disagree with that label. It doesn't bother me for you to say that and given your WW2 era background it is understandable. the wars we're in now can't be described the same as WW2 though in that nobody could imagine they are all-out knock-down world wars. I'm not anti-American at all. the opposite instead. and I won't serve in these wars. as I said, when they come here, that is when i'll fight. 65 or younger or older. that should be good enough for you.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
in 32 Abraxas described the situation falsely. and she did so with the intention of ridicule towards me. It is a fact that the 1986 law was crafted to protect employers who hire illegals. I've explained that many times. Abraxas said the law was made to stop illegals, to stop the employers from hiring them. this did not happen. It did not occur. Many people said it occurred. Abraxas may confuse reality with their description of it. She's so addicted to the lies that when someone tells her the truth she pretends it is a lie. They never passed a law to punish employers for hiring illegals. They made it illegal to hire illegals, they provided for some penalties, but those provisions are dysfunctional in reality and simply don't work. I know it is impossible for cyni & abraxas to comprehend that the lawmakers might be dishonest. cyni and abraxas will believe whatever they're told by the television and whatever puppets are put up to entertain them. the reality is that we have never tried to penalize employers for hiring illegals. Ronald reagan and the wall street journal at the time said this was a huge flaw in the law being passed. and so articles from 1986 are not on the net. abraxas blames me for that. Reagan's speeches that do not support the favored story-line are also hard to find. what else is new? as for cyni, I don't just stick with ronald reagan. I stick with george Washington. Washington was asked where his loyalties were? He responded that his first loyalty was to god. his second loyalty was to his family. his third loyalty was to his nation. Nowhere on that list did he say he was loyal to the government. cyni, you can be a slave to the government all you want. your choice. My view is that just because the government and some television cartoons tell us that we should go to war does not cause a good american to go to war. The wars are not in the interests of my nation, the people around me and certainly inconsistent with the truths made by god. So, I'll keep my loyalties to god, family & nation. You keep your loyalties to whoever it is that rules our government. are abraxas and cyni so stupid as to think that merely giving amnesty will cause other new illegals not to come? Apparently so. there must be laws to cause the employers to actually be penalized for hiring illegals for the illegals to stop coming. i've explained that 100 times. we have never made those laws. In 32 abraxas described the situation falsely. you've both fallen victim to propaganda and your brains are too stupid to even see. You sure don't mind insulting me. yet when i throw it in your face, you cannot tolerate it.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
Lets put this to its basic concept. Whether Red is right or wrong, whether AB is right or wrong is OF NO CONSEQUENCE. It has everything to do with social behavior. There are those of us on this forum that try to maintain a medium of polite social intercourse. Civility costs us nothing. Those of us in that group expected such civility from Red. You have made your choice, so be it.
I spoke the simple truth without being impolite at all. I repeated myself 100 times for people who questioned. and relentlessly I was ridiculed for it. with a great deal of rudeness as well. all I did was respond by saying Abraxas is a liar. her characterization in 32 is false. we have never had laws that penalized employers for hiring illegals. I'm not the only one who escalated. and I did not start it. and I think you should have more respect for the truth. You want to live in your comfortable world with your propaganda and when somebody shows you that it is false you insult them.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
I skimmed through what you said were first 2 paragraphs You can't tolerate simple reality. and you can't be polite to people and you don't have the integrity even try to go look for the info yourself. Oh, like his speeches aren't on the Internet? Look Red, I'm sick of your insults, your sandbox shinanigans, your name calling....... Isn't this all the same crap you "supposedly" deplored over at Robin's Nest? No, for the umpteenth time, I'm not asking for your verbal account or your fuzzy memory account of anything. BACK UP THE CRAP YOU ARE SPEWING IN THIS THREAD WITH DOCUMENTATION!!! Can it get any clearer than that? I posted the ENTIRE SIGNING STATEMENT which refutes your claims the Reagan wasn't attempting via this legislation to tackle the employee and employer problems.......that resulted in EPIC FAILURE. I've already documented CLEARLY with EVIDENCE that dementia was not a factor in 1986. Tell it to yourself Red. I've posted REAGAN'S OWN WORDS. Can't get more real than than. I've been more polite than you deserve after all of your insults and sandbox shinanigans on this thread. I have looked up all your claims Red. Why don't you try doing the same? From the signing statement, to vids from his debate, to documentation of his dementia onset--I've PROVIDED DOCUMENTATION AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. Why don't you work on your own integrity? Perhaps, you have none.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
So, you are now saying that Reagan was a liar too? And that we should not believe what he claimed to believe his own legislation would accomplish? I've already stated he sold us the amnesty on a pile of BS. Apparently you now agree with me on this issue.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Good guys don't call others liars and idiots simply because they cannot produce any evidence or documentation to substantiate their fuzzy memory on issues.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
No, your opinion is that the dementia was impacting him in 1986, which you have offered not one iota of documentation to back your claim. The historical fact is that the dementia came on after he fell off a horse in 1989 and suffered injury to his brain. Now you think you know more than Reagan's doctors.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
BAH.... The federal government maintains those same laws of punishment. According to the Immigration Reform and Control Act, approved by Congress in 1986, precludes states and cities from imposing any civil or criminal penalties on companies for hiring illegal immigrants. The same law, however, allows states to have their own “licensing or similar laws.” In fact that is why SB1070 is being fought vigourously by the federal government. The problem with the federal government is that it operates just like you, Red, you don't give a damn about America's own sovereignty.
"In a free society we're supposed to know the truth," ... "In a society where truth becomes treason, then we're in big trouble. And now, people who are revealing the truth are getting into trouble for it" -- Ron Paul, circa 2010-12-02
that is correct. the link you put up and said included the speech I referred to does not include the speech I referred to. I have spent some time looking for that speech. I have found that the bulk of reagan's speeches you can get if you pay fees for. Only a few are actually available for free. and as for the one that I was interested in,it would have beenmade in very early November, 1986 immediately prior to signing the legislation. It is simply not listed even in the Reagan Library. no surprise to me. I warned you that this was likely the case. the signing statement quote you put up is not what I was referring to. you think it significant that reagan read a statement about the bill, a statement written by others, it means nothing. You should pay attention to reagan's warning to us he made in the national tv appearance where he specifically said the legislation was faulty and needed to be changed. You also ridiculed my memory of the 1986 wall street journal editorial that addressed that legislation. You ridiculed that I had not put up a link to it. They have no links to 1986 articles. In all of this you've dealt with me in bad faith. For example you said you had put up documentation, but your documentation is irrelevant to the story I told. The wall street journal specifically stated that it was well known that fraudulent documents would be made on a large scale. The wall street journal specifically stated that the law was modified on the insistence of republican leadership in the senate so that employers would not be forced to check a central database to see if the docs were real. the wsj specifically said the law would protect employers who took photo-copies of docs and if the docs merely look real the employer is in the clear. The wsj specifically said this would lead to massive new illegal immigration. I remember that article. You say I am a liar. Yet you don't put up proof. You ridicule me for not doing so, but there are no links available - because it was 1986. I did find an article by Ed meese written in 2006 in the NYT that said the employer sanctions provisions were never enforced. meese is an establishment republican, loyal to the cause of guest workers. he was not honest, he should have said the law was faulty from the beginning. It is a big story-line that we are supposed to believe that somehow we just can't stop employers from hiring illegals. We can. I've tried to communicate that and this has upset you. and not just you, many people at this site are upset at these simple truths I've spoken. it has upset you and them because you buy the big story-line that we're sold in the propaganda, that we just can't stop employers from hiring illegals. It is false, but you love your fables. If we wanted a solution, then we would look to reagan's solution of amnesty combined with employer sanctions. South Carolina has proven that employer audits work. In Arizona we've turned over 131 illegal immigrants to the federal government in 3 years' time. You and many stupid idiots believe that is the best we can do. And I can put up a link (if you insist) to show that only 131 illegals were turned over by Arizona in 3 years' time. I have already put up such a link here. I have also put up a link showing that the South Carolina strategy works. and I have personally witnessed that employers have no fear of hiring people that they know are illegal and do it every do - because there are no real penalties for doing so. i've also put up a link showing that bush did virtually nothing to punish employers for hiring illegals and that with Obama's stepped up enforcement it is only $3 million in fines handed out in a whole year by our federal gov for hiring illegals. There's never been any real effort to stop the illegals from coming in. plain and simple. reagan did warn us about it, I saw him. You want to call me a liar on this point because there is no video on the internet. you're very naive. lots of things get censored in history. Reagan should have repeated this claim in his signing statement. He did not. but as I said, he had dementia and was influenced/controlled by people around him.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
this is an example of what I mean that you're a complete idiot dealing with me in bad faith. first of all the legislation came from congress. The Senate leadership had a huge impact on it that they refused to let any bill through if it had real provisions for stopping employers from hiring illegals. (I'll repeat again, please read) the signing statement said there was provision in the law to punish employers for hiring illegals. that is true. but the provisions were very weak and as I've tol you, purposely flawed, reagan came on tv before that signing statement and warned about it. The signing statement does not prove that I did not see that on tv. I did. reagan did truly want to penalize the employers. the congress did not give him the proper legislation to do it. If you want to believe the big story-line of the propaganda that somehow we just can't stop illegals, go for it - be sutpid.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
that may be true. but you are a liar and an idiot. and I said so because what you said in 32 is in bad faith, and a lie. I'll say it again, we've never tried to stop the illegals from coming here, never had legislation to do so. only fake legislation that some stupid people were fooled by. We had massive propaganda to convince those stupid people that we tried, but we never tried. I did find the NYT editorial by Meese that openly said there was no serious effort to keep the illegals out. if you want to find that editorial you can also. but it is obvious to the casual observer based on a preponderance of evidence that we never tried to keep them out. and Meese was the Attorney General at the time, so he should know. You know some say we should be able to disagree politely. that is true. I don't think #32 was polite, it was mocking and ridicule. All I did after that was tell the truth in less polite fashion. But I told the truth.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
thank you for explaining that to me. I think that he had dementia in 1986 when he allowed this legislation through. I was a citizen who paid extremely close attention in 1986 because I understood them to be important historical events. and i am also guilty of being tenacious enough to remember it and tell people. but in doing this I go against the grain of the mediocre people who would prefer that I swallow the propaganda. sorry, I'm not an idiot. Don't blame me for this.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
the federal government sues AZ on AZ SB 1070 because it is good psycho-drama for stupid people who like to be fooled by propaganda. I posted an article showing that the state of Arizona passed a grand total of 131 illegal immigrants to the federal government in the last 3 years. that included the time prior to SB 1070. The first anti-illegal immigrant law AZ passed was 3 years ago. People were afraid of that law also and it did nothing. Now SB 1070 does nothing either. It is purposely made so that it will not do anything significant. I've explained this about 20 times. If you want me to explain to you exactly what SB1070 does and why it does not work, then I can do that. But I've done it so many times already. and you just keep watching your tv. If you want to know how to stop illegals and why we're not doing it, then you actually have to use your brain and think. You have to be able to think thoughts not sanctioned by the mass media propaganda. it is virtually impossible for many Americans (buck). and for anyone that cares - regarding amnesty - you're not going to get a bill through congress on immigration unless it includes some kind of amnesty. because that is political reality. the best you can hope for is what reagan hoped for and failed to get because Senate Republicans sabotaged the efforts. You can't let 20, 25 million people in your country and let them live there for up to 20 years and then just kick them out. The people of our country will not allow it. The idiots under the influence of propaganda who are so opposed to amnesty in reality are paving the way for a permanent stream of guest workers. and will not succeed either at kicking the illegals out. we have a problem with our housing bubble today. the financial world is very upset that home prices are down after sky-rocketing. It is a situation. If you kick 20 million people out, then what will happen to housing prices. crash. do you think the financial oligarchs will allow that? they won't. what about our schools? Some have 80 or 90% illegal immigrant children. do you think we'll kick them all out just because their parents came here illegally? We're not. our people won't stand for it. Make yourself irrelevant if you think otherwise. that is exactly where the propaganda you love puts you (by design).
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
I did find the NYT editorial by Meese that openly said there was no serious effort to keep the illegals out. You best go read 32 again. There is no insulting, no name calling, no sandbox shinanigans. It is a clear RESPONSE TO YOUR POST, Red. Are you saying your post was a lie? If so, I agree. Why don't you refute the COMMENTARY of 32, rather than whining and sniveling and injecting personal woes and hurt widdle feelers into the discussion that are NOT IN THE CONTENT OF THE POST? When I wrote 32, I assumed you were an adult who could participate in an adult confersation. In hind sight, I way over-estimated your discourse abilities. Yeah, you keep spewing your opinion with no documentation expecting the lot of us to deem it credible. Well, I don't. I've refuted your fuzzy memories and opinions time and again....while you have yet to prove yourself correct even once. I've read Meese's hindsight commentary, Red. It only proves the points I have made all along. Why don't you post it for the lot of us? Because you know it proves you wrong again.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
PROVE IT!! As you said earlier, opinions are like assholes, everybody has one and thinks that it doesn't stink. Do you have anything other than your fuzzy memories and opinions to contribute?
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
PROVE IT!! A veto would have done so, but Reagan didn't opt for that and promoted every itota of that bill as a means to verify illegals in the work place and not discriminate against them.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
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#88. To: Red Jones (#87)
No Planes. Think about it. ................. Guaranteed Penetration (no it's not porn)
#89. To: Red Jones (#86)
#90. To: Red Jones (#84)
cyni, you said I was a free-loader and a side-liner.
#91. To: wudidiz, Red Jones (#85)
#92. To: Lod (#68)
Seems I'm moving to a Black vs. White view, with no Gray in the middle.
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?"
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#93. To: X-15 (#92)
Prune juice or orange juice. Muselix or Raisin Bran. Decisions, decisions....
#94. To: Cynicom, Lod, The-Over-The-Hill-Gang (#93)
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?"
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#95. To: X-15 (#94)
Just trying to help him along ;-)
#96. To: abraxas (#89)
#97. To: randge, abraxas (#96)
#98. To: Cynicom, abraxas, Red Jones (#90)
No Planes. Think about it. ................. Guaranteed Penetration (no it's not porn)
#99. To: Original_Intent (#97)
They are tired of the government not enforcing the border
#100. To: Original_Intent (#97)
#101. To: abraxas (#73)
Then, by all means, post the WSJ recap for the lot of us.
#102. To: abraxas (#73)
#103. To: Cynicom (#90)
#104. To: abraxas (#83)
#105. To: Red Jones, All (#103)
in using that term to describe me you are making strong judgments about something you know nothing about. and you are not my judge.
#106. To: wudidiz, All (#98)
Red's one of the good guys. So are many others that didn't or don't serve the evil elite.
#107. To: Cynicom (#106)
No Planes. Think about it. ................. Guaranteed Penetration (no it's not porn)
#108. To: All (#107)
LOL
No Planes. Think about it. ................. Guaranteed Penetration (no it's not porn)
#109. To: Red Jones, abraxas, Cynicom (#98)
Red's one of the good guys.
No Planes. Think about it. ................. Guaranteed Penetration (no it's not porn)
#110. To: Cynicom (#106)
Refuse to serve, and you will pay a price, that is reality.
#111. To: Cynicom (#105)
You call others liars, then refute your own words
#112. To: Red Jones (#111)
you've both fallen victim to propaganda and your brains are too stupid to even see. You sure don't mind insulting me. yet when i throw it in your face, you cannot tolerate it.
#113. To: Cynicom (#112)
#114. To: Red Jones (#101)
you're an idiot. articles from back then are not on the net. and you're the one that wants to see the info, I've already seen it.
#115. To: Red Jones (#102)
you're an idiot. the man characterizes the law falsely and you choose to believe that his false characterization is true.
#116. To: wudidiz, Cynicom, Red Jones (#98)
Red's one of the good guys
#117. To: Red Jones (#104)
that is historical fact, not my opinion.
#118. To: Red Jones, abraxas (#113)
we have never had laws that penalized employers for hiring illegals.
#119. To: abraxas (#114)
Oh, like his speeches aren't on the Internet?
#120. To: abraxas (#114)
I posted the ENTIRE SIGNING STATEMENT which refutes your claims the Reagan wasn't attempting via this legislation to tackle the employee and employer problems.
#121. To: abraxas (#116)
Good guys don't call others liars and idiots
#122. To: abraxas (#117)
The historical fact is that the dementia came on after he fell off a horse in 1989 and suffered injury to his brain. Now you think you know more than Reagan's doctors.
#123. To: buckeroo (#118)
In fact that is why SB1070 is being fought vigourously by the federal government.
#124. To: Red Jones (#121)
what you said in 32 is in bad faith, and a lie.
#125. To: Red Jones (#122)
I think that he had dementia in 1986 when he allowed this legislation through.
#126. To: Red Jones (#120)
reagan did truly want to penalize the employers
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