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Title: Senate Blocks Bill for Illegal Immigrant Students
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URL Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/19/us/politics/19immig.html
Published: Dec 18, 2010
Author: DAVID M. HERSZENHORN
Post Date: 2010-12-18 13:19:42 by Jethro Tull
Keywords: None
Views: 1576
Comments: 162
Senate Blocks Bill for Illegal Immigrant Students By DAVID M. HERSZENHORN Published: December 18, 2010 The Senate on Saturday blocked a bill that would create a path to citizenship for certain illegal immigrant students who came to the United States as children, completed two years of college or military service and met other requirements including passing a criminal background check. The vote, 55-41 in favor of the bill, effectively kills the measure for this year, and its fate beyond that is uncertain. -Snip
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#47. To: randge (#43)
Among others... If you were someone, knew someone, or had plenty of money, you could find a hiding place. I saw a lot of it, too much. Anyone that believes the beaners will stand and fight are wrong. Some individuals, certainly, en masse it will be South of the border, whites with no leverage will Jimmy Carter north.
you served. I did not. and will not. when they invade our country, that is when I will fight, and it doesn't matter what age I am at that time. not before. and it doesn't matter what the penalties are.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
I would not call anyone here that name, no one, regardless of the situation. I was raised differently perhaps.
I did not such thing and YOU KNOW IT!! You threw back EXACTLY WHAT I HAD BEEN SAYING WITHOUT ACKNOWLEDGING THE EPIC FAILURE IN REGARDS TO STOPPING NEW IMMIGRANTS. It's right up there on the thread and you can't deny it, Red. Reagan signed it when he could have vetoed it.....that would have been protest. He did not and therefore he is responsible for its epic failure.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
That's a blessing. We all get passionate about our view points. Sometimes more than we should. I can see a difference of opinion on Reagan's stance on the amnesty bill. Let's call this one a draw.
Red - Calling someone a liar is just so derogatory. You can post evidence to the contrary without denigrating the poster personally, can't you? Have a blessed evening.
Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its idiot.
will not serve... I have seen others like you, side liners, free riders, participate in government, but share no blame, let others do the bleeding and dying. Right or wrong, we were forced by the government that protects you.
I like Ike. Wait a second, are you suggesting that we pack a poor, downtrodden minority into railroad cars and ship them to a Final Destination??? Where have I heard this before.... :p
__________________________________________________________ we're all entitled to our opinions. just like assholes, they can be ugly. so you would've done things different from reagan. Thats great. i don't have any confidence that you are one tenth the person that reagan was. You did not get yourself elected. reagan did. Reagan was the only public figure in 1986 who was warning us of the danger of illegal immigrants and he did that as the legislation was signed by him. that is an achievement. If you want to bad- mouth him for it, so be it. who cares. You are a person of insignificant achievements by comaprison. I'll say it again, reagan was under dementia at the time. and he was surrounded by people who were against him, likely giving him drugs that put him at a severe disadvantage. at least he had the clarity to tell the public what was wrong with that legislation. Nobody else did that. You act like Reagan was the cause of the illegal immigrants coming. The media sold you on that. It is false. if we implemented what reagan tried to sell us we would not have the illegal immigrants here. we did not do that. and yet you blamed reagan for our nation's failure. a cheap cop-out and a lie. Don't blame me that I recall exactly and precisely what happened. Those were important events. I guess I should be a mind-numbed stupid robot and believe whatever garbage the media sells. sorry, it does not compute.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
You have a fuzzy memory Red: Here are the first two paragraphs of Reagan's signing statement for the 1986 amnesty: Statement on Signing the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 November 6, 1986 The Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 is the most comprehensive reform of our immigration laws since 1952. In the past 35 years our nation has been increasingly affected by illegal immigration. This legislation takes a major step toward meeting this challenge to our sovereignty. At the same time, it preserves and enhances the Nation's heritage of legal immigration. I am pleased to sign the bill into law. In 1981 this administration asked the Congress to pass a comprehensive legislative package, including employer sanctions, other measures to increase enforcement of the immigration laws, and legalization. The act provides these three essential components. The employer sanctions program is the keystone and major element. It will remove the incentive for illegal immigration by eliminating the job opportunities which draw illegal aliens here. We have consistently supported a legalization program which is both generous to the alien and fair to the countless thousands of people throughout the world who seek legally to come to America. The legalization provisions in this act will go far to improve the lives of a class of individuals who now must hide in the shadows, without access to many of the benefits of a free and open society. Very soon many of these men and women will be able to step into the sunlight and, ultimately, if they choose, they may become Americans. Here's a link to the entire protest free Reagan document: "The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
I would not call anyone here that name, no one, regardless of the situation. I was raised differently perhaps. Not so differently from many of us. There was a time when that would have resulted in a glove across the face, and a set time for pistols to settle such an outrageous character assassination. I'm of the olde school also on this one.
Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its idiot.
Forever a stain on Lord Reagan's reign....
__________________________________________________________ Not to pile on, because I don't want to pile, but I do feel compelled to comment. Having been called a liar myself when I was simply mistaken, later admitted after I did some research, I know it does rankle. So, I always give the benefit of the doubt, because sometimes people are mistaken and so it is not a lie, it is simply bad information.
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
More fuzzy memory eh Red? Reagan's dementia onset is noted as 1989, not 1986. In July 1989, the Reagans took a trip to Mexico, where Reagan was thrown off a horse and taken to a hospital for tests. The Reagans returned to the U.S. and visited the Mayo Clinic where they were told President Reagan had a head concussion and a subdural hematoma, and was subsequently operated on. Doctors believe that is what hastened the onset of Alzheimer's disease, an incurable neurological disorder which ultimately causes brain cells to die, and something Reagan was diagnosed with in 1994. Read more: http://www.disabled-world.com/artman/publish/famous- dementia.shtml#ixzz18WjKVXiT
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Amen... Of all people, Abraxas caught me in a falsehood a few days ago, she corrected me, without calling me a liar, and I acknowledged my mistake.
Amen. Don't call the poster a LIAR, just point them in the right direction to the truth. How tough is that? We don't need beat-downs, we want the truth here.
Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its idiot.
Sir Lod... Your olde age is showing, olde man. hehehehehe
I saw reagan's speech to the nation on this subject. I remember what he said. The 1'st 2 paragraphs of that signing statement may not have been the same as the speech I saw. and it does not contradit what I saw either. you go believe in your fables if you want. it isn't just my memory. The wall street journal described reagan's position at the time and the conflict between him and senate republicans who were the people who insisted the employers not be punished for hiring illegals. reagan took a different stand on that point. Only a liar paints it different. the passages you put up have nothing to do with penalties to employers. reagan asked for such penalties. and you are a liar to characterize it otherwise. the wall street journal at the time specifically said that both reagan and House democrats wanted penalties for employers and that they were frustrated by senate republicans. the media conveniently failed to communicate this stuff to us. and you badger me for not being steeped in the media's fables about reagan and this issue. by disputing my version you have called me a liar, and you did it with a mocking attitude that was rude. All I have done is throw it back in your face with the truth and correctly called you a liar - which you are.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
However, it is interesting to observe the forum ethos - as a group we resist the kind of ill will generated on El Pee. Exactly, we don't want to degenerate into an El Pee. However, it is interesting to observe the forum ethos - as a group we resist the kind of ill will generated on El Pee. That is a sign of an ethical and stout group.
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
I guess I should be a mind-numbed stupid robot and believe whatever garbage the media sells. What I clearly said before and I'm happy to reiterate is that Reagan sold us a bill that he said would STOP NEW IMMIGRANTS FROM COMING INTO THE US, which by your own commentary is agreed upon. What you fail to agree to is that this premise for passing the bill was A) BS and B) AN EPIC FAILURE. Furthermore, you claim that Reagan protested the bill which COMPLETELY contradicts his signing statement. And, to justify Reagan's signing you claim he had dementia when all other sources claim the onset was in 1989, not 1986. And yes, because of Reagan's 1986 amnesty MORE ILLEGALS CAME TO THE US in hopes of amnesty.......the numbers don't lie Red. Well, the least you could do is actually provide some documentation and verification for the claims you are making and you could actually discuss the documents and evidence I have presented to the CONTRARY. It's obvious to the lot of us that your "recall" lacks credibility and in lieu of any cogent argument you would rather sling insults and call others liars while you spit on your monitor and have a little tirade.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
Yes, on the one hand I'm more forgiving, and at the same time less forgiving of certain things. Strange, but true. Seems I'm moving to a Black vs. White view, with no Gray in the middle.
Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its idiot.
Calm down. Ab is a nice lady and an honorable one. I realize you disagree with her viewpoint, and that's fine, that's part of what forums are about - exchanging viewpoints, but because someone does not agree does not make them a liar. It means they have a different take on it. You both have valid points so debate the point not personalities.
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
A great close to this most interesting thread. Now to Ignore Thread feature. 'night.
Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its idiot.
Sir Lod... Your olde age is showing, olde man. hehehehehe I don't know about you guys, but my father had some firm ideas about how a gentleman behaves toward a lady. I think it would take an act of will for me to do much more than just be coldly polite even if a woman is being an absolute bitch.
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
Rest well good sir.
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
The wall street journal described reagan's position Only a liar paints it different. by disputing my version you have called me a liar, and you did it with a mocking attitude that was rude. Post the speech content, your recall lacks credibility. Then, by all means, post the WSJ recap for the lot of us. Oh, really? I painted Reagan's SIGNING STATEMENT. Was he a liar? Go to the link I provided and read the ENTIRE document that details Reagan's position on EVERY ASPECT OF THE BILL. How can I lie about REAGAN'S SIGNING STATEMENT? It is what it is. He said it. He signed it. lol......your recall has proven again and again and again to lack credibility. Do I call you a liar because of this? No. But while you call other posters on fuzzy memory I simply have taken you to the mat for your own with documentation BY REAGAN that proves you are wrong. You want to talk about rude after you called me a liar?
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
what abraxas said in 32 was mocking and ridicule. and it was also a lie. Reagan was not the one who made the legislation that let the illegals come. She said that Reagan said the legislation would stop illegals. the truth is completely the opposite. reagan came on tv, he said the legislation was very seriously flawed and that it neglected to stop illegals. he said that some were saying that it would, but that this was not true. he said this right on national tv. I can't help it if abraxas buys the propaganda. I was not the one who started the rudeness. i just refuse to tolerate it. then abraxas put up these 1'st 2 paragraphs of a signing statement that were completely irrelevant to the question. Reagan was far from perfect, but he was a legitimate American leader with sentiment for our country. People who slander him because they believe fables sold by an anti-American clique dominating our media I don't have much patience for. Especially when they go out of their way to be rude and insulting to me. and that is how I view #32. People here are making the argument that it is impossible for the US government to stop employers from hiring illegals. She said that Reagan tried and failed, that is a lie. the US government has never tried to systematically penalize employers for hiring illegals. You are liars to say otherwise.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
That is very true, ones views of others does change with age, tolerance changes, forgiveness is easier, but there is a line determined by upbringing that cannot be crossed. I will say this, with age, many things are better understood, good or bad, one sees with more clarity. My one advantage in life was being born and raised on the wrong side of the tracks and with no education. Being thus, one always has a more realistic view of life than others.
Red... Forget the rhetoric, apologize to the lady, its easy, try it. Raise your stature here among men.
In her favor I do have to say it was witty. I wouldn't call it mocking. No, rather more it was sarcastic. Not that I have ever done such. No, not me. I read it as more of challenge than really an assault. If she wanted to be nasty she's quite capable of it, but she was just having fun albeit at your expense. So, just take it with a thick skin and apply Judo. Being polite does not require being a pushover.
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
I can't take anything you say seriously. the media sells you on a false story and you want to blame me for not being sold the same. The 2 paragraphs you put up had nothing to do with the discussion. You've been dealing with me in bad faith. It is likely that it would be very difficult to find on the internet a speech made by reagan in 1986. or impossible. yet you demand that I do this just because you are an ignoramus with your feelings hurt over me exposing the fact that you were sold lies. the media sold a story-line on this issue - that somehow our government tried to stop illegals from coming and by magic cannot succeed. No, they never tried. I am an eye-witness to that history. who you going to believe, me or that television? big decision. I really don't care what you believe. but you should be polite to others. I do not believe you met that standard in 32 if you look at the context of the situation. If you don't believe me, then say so without rudeness and indignation or insults. If you treat me that way, then I will treat you that way - which I have done.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
and all I did was throw it back in kind whatever it was.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
Oh really? The main crux of the legislation is EMPLOYMENT and ensuring there is no discrimination of illegals. THE BILL ENSURED NO ENFORCEMENT IN HIRING PRACTICES. Why don't you read it, Red? Here are the following paragraphs detailed in his signing statement: Section 102(a) of the bill adds section 274B to the Immigration and Nationality Act. This new section relates to certain kinds of discrimination in connection with employment in the United States. Section 274B(a) provides that it is an ``unfair immigration-related employment practice'' to ``discriminate against'' any individual in hiring, recruitment or referral for a fee, or discharging from employment ``because of'' such individual's national origin or -- if such individual is a United States citizen or an alien who is a lawful permanent resident, refugee admitted under INA section 207, or asylee granted asylum under section 208, and who has taken certain steps evidencing an intent to become a United States citizen -- because of such individual's citizenship status. Employers of fewer than four employees are expressly exempted from coverage. Discrimination against an ``unauthorized alien,'' as defined in section 274A(h)(3), is also not covered. Other exceptions include cases of discrimination because of national origin that are covered by title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, discrimination based on citizenship status when lawfully required under government authority, and discrimination in favor of a United States citizen over an alien if the citizen is at least ``equally qualified.'' The major purpose of section 274B is to reduce the possibility that employer sanctions will result in increased national origin and alienage discrimination and to provide a remedy if employer sanctions enforcement does have this result. Accordingly, subsection (k) provides that the section will not apply to any discrimination that takes place after a repeal of employer sanctions if this should occur. In the light of this major purpose, the Special Counsel should exercise the discretion provided under subsection (d)(1) so as to limit the investigations conducted on his own initiative to cases involving discrimination apparently caused by an employer's fear of liability under the employer sanctions program. I understand section 274B to require a ``discriminatory intent'' standard of proof: The party bringing the action must show that in the decisionmaking process the defendant's action was motivated by one of the prohibited criteria. Thus, it would be improper to use the ``disparate impact'' theory of recovery, which was developed under paragraph (2) of section 703(a) of title VII, in a line of Supreme Court cases over the last 15 years. This paragraph of title VII does not have a counterpart in section 274B. Section 274B tracks only the language of paragraph (1) of section 703(a), the basis of the ``disparate treatment'' (discriminatory intent) theory of recovery under title VII. Moreover, paragraph (d)(2) refers to ``knowing an intentional discrimination'' and ``a pattern or practice of discriminatory activity.'' The meaning of the former phrase is self-evident, while the latter is taken from the Supreme Court's disparate treatment jurisprudence and thus includes the requirement of a discriminatory intent. Thus, a facially neutral employee selection practice that is employed without discriminatory intent will be permissible under the provisions of section 274B. For example, the section does not preclude a requirement of English language skill or a minimum score on an aptitude test even if the employer cannot show a ``manifest relationship'' to the job in question or that the requirement is a ``bona fide occupational qualification reasonably necessary to the normal operation of that particular business or enterprise,'' so long as the practice is not a guise used to discriminate on account of national origin or citizenship status. Indeed, unless the plaintiff presents evidence that the employer has intentionally discriminated on proscribed grounds, the employer need not offer any explanation for his employee selection procedures. Section 274B(c) provides that the President shall appoint, with the advice and consent of the Senate, a Special Counsel for Immigration-Related Unfair Employment Practices within the Justice Department, to serve for a term of 4 years. I understand this subsection to provide that the Special Counsel shall serve at the pleasure and with the policy guidance of the President, but for no longer than for a 4-year term (subject to reappointment by the President with the advice and consent of the Senate). In accordance with the provisions of section 274B(h) and (j)(4), a requirement to pay attorneys' fees may be imposed against nonprevailing parties -- including alleged victims or persons who file on their behalf as well as employers -- if claims or defenses are made that do not have a reasonable foundation in both law and fact. The same standard for the imposing of attorneys' fees applies to all nonprevailing parties. It is therefore expected that prevailing defendants would recover attorneys' fees in all cases for which this standard is satisfied, not merely in cases where the claim of the victim or person filing on their behalf is found to be vexatious or frivolous. The provisions of new INA section 245A(a)(4)(B) and (b)(1)(C)(ii), added by section 201(a) of the bill, state that no alien would qualify for the lawful temporary or the permanent residence status provided in that section if he or she has been convicted of any felony or three or more misdemeanors committed in the United States. New INA section 245A(d)(2) states that no alien would qualify for the lawful temporary or permanent residence status provided in that section if ``likely to become [a] public charge [ ].'' This disqualification could be waived by the Attorney General under certain circumstances. A likelihood that an applicant would become a public charge would exist, for example, if the applicant had failed to demonstrate either a history of employment in the United States of a kind that would provide sufficient means without public cash assistance for the support of the alien and his likely dependents who are not United States citizens or the possession of independent means sufficient by itself for such support for an indefinite period. New INA section 245A(a)(3) requires that an applicant for legalization establish that he has been ``continuously physically present in the United States since the date of the enactment'' but states that ``brief, casual, and innocent absences from the United States'' will not be considered a break in the required continuous physical presence. To the extent that the INS has made available a procedure by which aliens can obtain permission to depart and reenter the United States after a brief, casual, and innocent absence by establishing a prima facie case of eligibility for adjustment of status under this section, I understand section 245A(a)(3) to require that an unauthorized departure and illegal reentry will constitute a break in ``continuous physical presence.'' New INA section 210(d), added by section 302(a) of the bill, provides that an alien who is ``apprehended'' before or during the application period for adjustment of status for certain ``special agricultural workers,'' may not under certain circumstances related to the establishment of a nonfrivolous case of eligibility for such adjustment of status be excluded or deported. I understand this subsection not to authorize any alien to apply for admission to or to be admitted to the United States in order to apply for adjustment of status under this section. Aliens outside the United States may apply for adjustment of status under this section at an appropriate consular office outside the United States pursuant to the procedures established by the Attorney General, in cooperation with the Secretary of State, as provided in section 210(b)(1)(B). Section 304 of the bill establishes the Commission on Agricultural Workers, half of whose 12 members are appointed by the executive branch and half by the legislative branch. This hybrid Commission is not consistent with constitutional separation of powers. However, the Commission's role will be entirely advisory. Section 304(g) provides that upon request of the Commission's Chairman, the head of ``any department or agency of the United States'' must supply ``information necessary to enable it to carry out [the] section.'' Although I expect that the executive branch will cooperate closely with the Commission, its access to executive branch information will be limited in accordance with established principles of law, including the constitutional separation of powers. Section 601 establishes a Commission for the Study of International Migration and Cooperative Economic Development, all of whose members are appointed by the legislative branch. Section 601(d)(1) states that the access to executive branch information required under section 304(g) must be provided to this Commission also. Accordingly, the comments of the preceding paragraph are appropriate here as well. New INA section 274A(a)(5) provides that a person or entity shall be deemed in compliance with the employment verification system in the case of an individual who is referred for employment by a State employment agency if that person or entity retains documentation of such referral certifying that the agency complied with the verification system with respect to the individual referred. I understand this provision not to mandate State employment agencies to issue referral documents certifying compliance with the verification system or to impose any additional affirmative duty or obligation on the offices or personnel of such agencies. Distance has not discouraged illegal immigration to the United States from all around the globe. The problem of illegal immigration should not, therefore, be seen as a problem between the United States and its neighbors. Our objective is only to establish a reasonable, fair, orderly, and secure system of immigration into this country and not to discriminate in any way against particular nations or people. The act I am signing today is the product of one of the longest and most difficult legislative undertakings of recent memory. It has truly been a bipartisan effort, with this administration and the allies of immigration reform in the Congress, of both parties, working together to accomplish these critically important reforms. Future generations of Americans will be thankful for our efforts to humanely regain control of our borders and thereby preserve the value of one of the most sacred possessions of our people: American citizenship. Note: S. 1200, approved November 6, was assigned Public Law No. 99 - 603.
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
I would tend to agree with your point, however ab's got a valid point too. The President does have the power of the Veto.
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
"Noun 1. liar - a person who has lied or who lies repeatedly prevaricator beguiler, cheater, deceiver, trickster, slicker, cheat - someone who leads you to believe something that is not true false witness, perjurer - a person who deliberately gives false testimony fabricator, fibber, storyteller - someone who tells lies
Here's a link to MOST of Reagan's speeches: Took me two seconds to locate.........
"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country. ... We are governed, our minds are molded, our tastes formed, our ideas suggested, largely by men we have never heard of." Edward Bernays, Father of Public Relations
cyni, you said I was a free-loader and a side-liner. You fought in America's wars. i have not done so. And I am sincere in saying that I will not do so until the foreigners invade here - regardless of any draft or police action against me. that is the only time I will fight - when they invade us. you mocked my sincerity and called me a free-loader. Forgive me for telling you, but I can't really take your requests seriously. Our government has made no attempt to keep the illegals out. reagan warned us. He was the only one who did. I'll speak the truth for the truth's sake. too bad if you don't like it.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
What was the date, please?
congratulations. maybe you could look up the speech and see what he said. rather than make accusations you know nothing about. and I repeat again, it is not necessarilly true that you found an accurate copy of all reagan's speeches. but if you did, then you can easily look at them. Why don't you. then you can share it with me. rather than making accusations out of ignorance.
Psalms 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon, there we sat down, yea, we wept, when we remembered Zion.
Comments (87 - 162) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestAre you referring to this?
#48. To: Cynicom (#33)
might be forced
#49. To: Lod (#46)
I try to keep the level of discourse (most times) on a higher level than elsewhere.
#50. To: Red Jones (#45)
and as far as I'm concerned abraxas called me a liar by disputing what I said about Reagan. all I did was throw the truth back at her.
#51. To: Lod, Cynicom, 4, Red Jones, abraxas, all (#46)
I try to keep the level of discourse (most times) on a higher level than elsewhere.
#52. To: Red Jones (#45)
#53. To: Red Jones (#48)
you served. I did not. and will not. when they invade our country, that is when I will fight
#54. To: Lod (#40)
Operation Wetback, bump.
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?"
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#55. To: abraxas (#42)
so he had no veto power?
#56. To: Red Jones (#45)
and don't blame me if your memories are so fuzzy.
#57. To: Cynicom (#49)
I try to keep the level of discourse (most times) on a higher level than elsewhere.
#58. To: abraxas (#56)
Statement on Signing the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?"
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#59. To: Lod, Red Jones (#52)
#60. To: Red Jones (#55)
reagan was under dementia at the time. and he was surrounded by people who were against him, likely giving him drugs that put him at a severe disadvantage
#61. To: Original_IntentLod, Abraxas (#59)
So, I always give the benefit of the doubt, because sometimes people are mistaken and so it is not a lie, it is simply bad information.
#62. To: Lod, 4 (#57)
There was a time when that would have resulted in a glove across the face
#63. To: Original_Intent, 4 (#59)
So, I always give the benefit of the doubt, because sometimes people are mistaken and so it is not a lie, it is simply bad information.
#64. To: Lod (#63)
We don't need beat-downs, we want the truth here.
#65. To: abraxas (#56)
#66. To: Lod (#63)
We don't need beat-downs, we want the truth here.
#67. To: Red Jones (#55)
You act like Reagan was the cause of the illegal immigrants coming
#68. To: Cynicom, 4 (#64)
#69. To: Red Jones, abraxas (#65)
#70. To: Original_Intent, 4 (#69)
You both have valid points so debate the point not personalities.
#71. To: Cynicom, Lod (#64)
We don't need beat-downs, we want the truth here.
#72. To: Lod (#70)
#73. To: Red Jones (#65)
I remember what he said.
#74. To: All (#65)
#75. To: Lod (#68)
Yes, on the one hand I'm more forgiving, and at the same time less forgiving of certain things.
#76. To: Red Jones, Abraxas, all (#74)
what abraxas said in 32 was mocking and ridicule. and it was also a lie.
#77. To: Red Jones, abraxas, all (#74)
#78. To: abraxas (#73)
#79. To: Original_Intent (#77)
I read it as more of challenge than really an assault
#80. To: Red Jones (#74)
She said that Reagan tried and failed, that is a lie. the US government has never tried to systematically penalize employers for hiring illegals. You are liars to say otherwise.
#81. To: Red Jones, abraxas (#74)
the US government has never tried to systematically penalize employers for hiring illegals. You are liars to say otherwise.
#82. To: Red Jones, All (#79)
#83. To: Red Jones (#78)
(Edited)
It is likely that it would be very difficult to find on the internet a speech made by reagan in 1986. or impossible. yet you demand that I do this just because you are an ignoramus with your feelings hurt over me exposing the fact that you were sold lies.
#84. To: Cynicom (#76)
#85. To: Red Jones, abraxas (#78)
It is likely that it would be very difficult to find on the internet a speech made by reagan in 1986. or impossible.
No Planes. Think about it. ................. Guaranteed Penetration (no it's not porn)
#86. To: abraxas (#83)
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