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Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: Awaiting The Storm (Fred)
Source: Fred On Everything
URL Source: http://www.fredoneverything.net/ComingStorm.shtml
Published: Dec 21, 2010
Author: Who Else? Fred
Post Date: 2010-12-21 14:28:03 by Original_Intent
Keywords: Fred, Reed, Freedom, Nazis
Views: 395
Comments: 34

Berlin, 1934

Awaiting the Storm

December 17, 2010

 

Flags. These are always a bad sign. Hardly a politician appears on television who doesn’t stand in front of an American flag, sometimes three American flags. A venomous nationalism now poisons the air, and grows.   We are off and rolling.

The trappings of fascism spread. General David Petraeus, commander of the Eastern Front, poses with the President in the White House in combat fatigues.  The country is now the Homeland, reminiscent of the  Nazi Fatherland and the Soviet Motherland. We hear of American Exceptionalism, the ritual self-idolizaton beloved of pathological nationalism. Blood and Soil. The American Dream. Ubermenschen. All we need is a short Austrian.

We may get one. The times ripen for a man on a horse. (Or perhaps a woman: Twitler of Alaska looms.) An ignorant populaton, unread, unfamiliar with the outside world, focuses its anxieties on troubling dark things lurking abroad, the brown hordes from the south, the rising Chinese, inexplicable Moslems who want to kill all Christians.  Sooner rather than later such a mob finds solace in an angry unity. From an unhappy lower middle-class spring Brown Shirts. Wait.

Things come together: Falling standards of living across a country in irremediable decline, diminishing expectations, growing anger in search of focus, a sense of a birthright being stolen as preeminence drifts across the Pacific. Here is fertile soil for some strange crop not yet clearly seen.

It will play out against a backdrop of totalitarian watchfulness all too imaginable. A digital world lends itself to tyranny, making it, I think, inescapable. For practical purposes, the capacity to store data is infinite, to network it across the world, to track, to scan, to watch. This is not the place for a disquisition on the technology of surveillance. Just note that the machinery exists for a totalitarian watchfulness beyond Stalin’s wettest dreams. The government wants this, pushes for it daily, and gets it. You can’t spend a dollar, take a flight, or send an email without a federal federal office watching.  It  is getting worse and cannot be stopped. Surveillance is too easy.

We will be told, are being told, that to be safe we must submit, that enemies within and without are upon us, that terrorists spawn plots everywhere. Where communists once hid in every closet and the House Unamerican Activities Committee, HUAC, hunted them, now we have Islamo-terrorists hunted by Homeland Security.

What matter civil rights when the Moslem is at our throats? The price of liberty is eternal vigilance, and the vigilance ends liberty.  

Hysteria darkly flowers. Homeland Security now wants to train us in how to react to a nuclear attack, a la 1950. Scare’m, keep’em scared, tell them you are protecting them, and they will kiss your boots. An Australian publishes embarrasing cable traffic from American embassies, and politicians call for him to be killed by the CIA. The agency is revered as a sort of clandestine Batman and Robin, defending America secretly where evil swirls in the coming night. Kill, kill. On subways we are told to watch each other, to report curious behavior to the authorities. Nothing can stop this.

Constitutionality becomes a fading memory. Random searches in train stations, genital examinations in airports, the decline of habeas corpus, the evasion of the duty of Congress to declare wars, on and on. The government does what it wants. There is no recourse. We are told that it is to make us safe. I haven’t asked to be made safe.

The genius of American politics is to espouse democracy while keeping political power from the people. The trick is to have barely distinguishable candidates for the presidency who carefully avoid mention of substance—the wars, for example, or affirmative action, guns, abortion. These electioins, if so they be, allow people to wave placards, roar invective about throwing the rascals out and returning to traditional American etc. The dust settles and things remain as they were.

Governance does not rest with the people. Today, decree replaces legislation, and must, for our safety. If Homeland Security says you must go through a CAT scan, naked, and singing the Star Spangled Banner, then you have to do it. There is no recourse. You can unelect an elected official, but there is no way to get at a bureaucrat. If you do not submit, you go to jail.

Shortly we will hear the death rattle of free expression. No government sees an advantage to itself in a free press, though countries with decent governments feel much less threatened. Our government fears nothing more.

America has a carefully controlled press that appears free because it is not explicitly controlled by the government. But the real power in America rests with the big corporations and their lobbies, with Wall Street, whose personnel move in and out of the formal government at will. All of the traditional media, radio, newspapers, and television, are owned by large corporations. How curious that they do not question large corporations.

The only free press in America is the internet, and the government does not like it. Washington now moves to “regulate” it. To promote fairness, you see, to prevent piracy, and to maintain national security. Then it will be found necessary to suppress “hate sites.” Just now you are reading a site that has been blocked on many federal installations for promoting hate. There is no recourse.

How will this play out? America retreats behind its emotional borders, gazes over the ramparts, frightened and  hostile. In those outlets of the media than pander to The Heartland, to the manipulable unlettered, the nationalist drumbeat grows apace. That America’s bankrupty results from America’s economic policies, that the country is everywhere hated because of wilfully chosen behavior—this does not occur to people who do not read, who do not so much as know the dates of World War II. They will find someone else to blame. Liberals. Mohammedans. Mexicans.

A danger is that the country will lash out abroad, ever more feebly as the economy declines, at nations that no will longer pay attention to it. Washington says that it “will not tolerate a nuclear Iran,” and Iran ignores the admonition. You cannot not tolerate what you can’t prevent. The Pentagon sends the carriers to steam ferally in circles off North Korea, which ignores them. The consequences of wounded vanity are not trivial in world affairs, as anyone knows who has a familiarity with the Treaty of Versailles. But who does?

It serves nothing to raise alarums, to pen Philippics, to gnash hands and wring teeth. Minor political currents can be diverted by protest, but this one is the torrent subsequent to a broken dam.  It will go where it will, as the Thirties went where they would. Hold on tight.

.

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#1. To: Original_Intent (#0)

Just, amen.

Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its idiot.

Lod  posted on  2010-12-21   14:37:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: All (#0)

We will be told, are being told, that to be safe we must submit, that enemies within and without are upon us, that terrorists spawn plots everywhere. Where communists once hid in every closet and the House Unamerican Activities Committee, HUAC, hunted them, now we have Islamo-terrorists hunted by Homeland Security. ...

...Hysteria darkly flowers. Homeland Security now wants to train us in how to react to a nuclear attack, a la 1950. Scare’m, keep’em scared, tell them you are protecting them, and they will kiss your boots. ...

...On subways we are told to watch each other, to report curious behavior to the authorities. Nothing can stop this. ...

...Constitutionality becomes a fading memory. Random searches in train stations, genital examinations in airports, the decline of habeas corpus, the evasion of the duty of Congress to declare wars, on and on. The government does what it wants. There is no recourse. We are told that it is to make us safe. ...

...Governance does not rest with the people. Today, decree replaces legislation, and must, for our safety. If Homeland Security says you must go through a CAT scan, naked, and singing the Star Spangled Banner, then you have to do it. There is no recourse. You can unelect an elected official, but there is no way to get at a bureaucrat. If you do not submit, you go to jail. ...

...America has a carefully controlled press that appears free because it is not explicitly controlled by the government. But the real power in America rests with the big corporations and their lobbies, with Wall Street, whose personnel move in and out of the formal government at will. All of the traditional media, radio, newspapers, and television, are owned by large corporations. How curious that they do not question large corporations. ...

...The only free press in America is the internet, and the government does not like it. Washington now moves to “regulate” it. To promote fairness, you see, to prevent piracy, and to maintain national security. Then it will be found necessary to suppress “hate sites.” ...

While I'm not quite as pessimistic as Fred the hour IS late, and there are some very dark clouds on the horizon.

"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-12-21   14:48:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Lod (#1)

Just, amen.

Just, ditto.

"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-12-21   14:48:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Original_Intent (#3)

Hell of a note when I'm envious of Fred and his life in central MX.

One hell of a note...

Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its idiot.

Lod  posted on  2010-12-21   14:50:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Original_Intent (#0)

These electioins, if so they be, allow people to wave placards, roar invective about throwing the rascals out and returning to traditional American etc. The dust settles and things remain as they were.

This is the most excellent synopsis and truthful account of the way things are, that I have ever read. Thank you.

I have thought for a long time that the biggest challenge and obstacle to America to-day is that the majority of people want things to return to the way they were, pre-recession, post WW2.

The good old days are what have led us to the present. The good old days were not what we believed them to be. They were a sham, an illusion, a delusion.

We would have to go back to the 18th century, and give up our toys, grow up and stop consuming 25% of the world's resources.

The deceased man with the most money, toys, and property is non-the-less, dead!

I want either less corruption or more opportunity to participate in it. Ashleigh Brilliant

angK  posted on  2010-12-21   14:53:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Lod (#4)

He may be in a much better position to ride out the storm.

Patagonia was my first choice, but the Israeli elite has been sending missions and preparing to buy a lot of it up to flee to when Israel eventually implodes. Also Ted Turner is the largest single landholder in Patagonia.

"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-12-21   14:55:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: angK (#5)

This is the most excellent synopsis and truthful account of the way things are, that I have ever read. Thank you.

Fred has a way of cutting through the bullshit and calling it the way he sees it, and he has good eyesight.

"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-12-21   14:56:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Original_Intent (#0)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." - Ben Franklin

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-12-21   15:26:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Original_Intent (#0)

One of the best articles I've read in a long time. Thank you for posting it.

I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. - Benjamin Franklin

F.A. Hayek Fan  posted on  2010-12-21   15:36:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#9)

You are welcome. As virtually always Fred gets it right.

"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-12-21   15:44:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Eric Stratton (#8)

I don't think that Tits is up to the task.

Why not? She's every bit as competent as Soebama.

No, but most Americans did ask for a host of other things along the way, for "poor people to have aid," for "the hungry to have food stamps" [to spend on crap and junk food, for "social security," and a host of other things. This is the latest and greatest and near last in the progression.

Given some of the things the government is wasting money on that is the least of our problems. Oh, it does need to be reformed, but prudence dictates that before we end the dole they have to have somewhere to go or we simply end up penny wise and pound foolish.

"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-12-21   15:51:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Original_Intent (#0) (Edited)

Flags. These are always a bad sign. Hardly a politician appears on television who doesn’t stand in front of an American flag, sometimes three American flags. A venomous nationalism now poisons the air, and grows. We are off and rolling.

The level of bigotry against americans in this article is disgusting.

It is clear that the writer of this article would like to see all the american people killed off in genocide. Our culture destroyed. Our works dismantled. Our history forgotten. All so that feudalism can return in force for the rest of humanity.

One of the things you omit that fact in the top article is that, for two decades before hand, foreign nations, and their puppets in the Wiemar Republic, ground the German people into poverty, famine, and homelessness. Entire generations of abused people that been deprived of everything but hatred for the Wiemar Republic and the rest of the world.

An entire people that called out for blood and vengeance. It is just that Hitler and the Nazis were the ones whom were able to tap into this righteous anger.

And now history is repeating itself. And like all abusers, you blame the victims for the whirlwind you are about to reap.

PaulCJ  posted on  2010-12-21   16:02:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: PaulCJ (#12)

And like all abusers, you blame the victims for the whirlwind you are about the reap.

You abuse the english language, the rules of grammar, and can't seem to ever complete a sentence that makes sense !

"Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were (ever) our countrymen!”".

noone222  posted on  2010-12-21   16:12:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: PaulCJ (#12)

The level of bigotry against americans in this article is disgusting.

Nonsense. It is an unvarnished assessment of the current situation and the level of manipulation of people - such as yourself.

Everything in the article is a statement of fact regarding the current situation.

We have increasing totalitarian controls, increasing surveillance, the seeding of a Stasi-esque snitch culture (don't forget that Markus Wolfe the former head of the East German Stasi was hired by the Department uff Vaterland Sekurity as a PAID CONSULTANT), increasingly militarized police, and yes Flag Waving Retards like those who attended the Nuremberg Rallies. The simple waving of a flag does not wash away the ACTIONS taking place. One may take the flag waving politicians at face value if they wish, and they may also blow their brains out if they wish. Not much difference really except that in option "A" you let someone else pull the trigger for you.

"When someone starts talking about their patriotism it is a sure sign they expect to get paid for it." H. L. Mencken

What you reveal in your missive is a lack of reading of history, and making an honest comparison between the rise of the Nazi Party and what is now being orchestrated in the United States by the descendants of the people who created and funded the rise of the Nazi Party.

"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-12-21   16:29:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: noone222 (#13) (Edited)

You abuse the english language, the rules of grammar, and can't seem to ever complete a sentence that makes sense !

Continue with your bigotry to beat down any american whom loves their nation and culture, the SAME TYPE OF LOVE THAT IS ALLOWED IN ALL OTHER NATIONS ON EARTH!!

PaulCJ  posted on  2010-12-21   16:30:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: PaulCJ (#15)

the SAME TIME OF LOVE THAT IS ALLOWED IN ALL OTHER NATIONS ON EARTH!!

Huh ??? (Hint: You should use lower case letters so that your mistakes aren't so obvious.)

"Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were (ever) our countrymen!”".

noone222  posted on  2010-12-21   16:34:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Original_Intent (#14)

1. It is an unvarnished assessment of the current situation and the level of manipulation of people - such as yourself.

2. What you reveal in your missive is a lack of reading of history, and making an honest comparison between the rise of the Nazi Party and what is now being orchestrated in the United States by the descendants of the people who created and funded the rise of the Nazi Party.

1. Nope, it is bigotry and manipulation to prevent americans from organizing.

2. Your ignorance of history is glaring. At the surrender negotiations at the end of WWI, the surrender terms were so harsh towards Germany that one person committed that the end of this great war would be the start of the next great war. And HE WAS RIGHT!

PaulCJ  posted on  2010-12-21   16:34:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: noone222 (#16)

All you have proven is that you are an anti-american grammar nazi, whom cannot actually hold a conversation, and instead you rely on insults to shout down others in silence.

PaulCJ  posted on  2010-12-21   16:36:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: PaulCJ (#17)

Your ignorance of history is glaring. At the surrender negotiations at the end of WWI, the surrender terms were so harsh towards Germany that one person committed that the end of this great war would be the start of the next great war. And HE WAS RIGHT!

And that was the intent. Read Albert Pike.

That does not change the names of the money men who funded Hitler and the Nazis e.g., Prescott Bush.

Nor does it mitigate the fact of history that the German industrialists who supported Hitler were by and large given a pass after the war. Another interesting footnote of history.

"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-12-21   16:45:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Original_Intent (#19)

You still don't get it, plant. You and your masters are creating a firestorm that will turn all you possess into ashes.

You want to keep the american people from being united because you are bigots. That is why you posted the first article, because it is bigotry.

PaulCJ  posted on  2010-12-21   16:54:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: PaulCJ (#20)

I'm afraid you are the one who doesn't "get it".

The level of manipulation, the use of fear to enforce support, those are the drivers. Then you create a bogeyman for everybody to hate, Muslims and Mexicans, etc., ....

Sorry bud, but your inability to confront the reality does not make your altered state reality.

There is simply too much ignorance in your post to tackle in a short setting, and I doubt that you have yet woken up to the point where you can confront the reality.

So, whatever. Oh, and by the way, as I posted to you elsewhere when you have to attack a person individuality rather than constructing an intelligent counter-argument you are simply displaying that you cannot.

"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-12-21   17:08:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Original_Intent (#21)

Then you create a bogeyman for everybody to hate, Muslims and Mexicans, etc., ....

You are the manipulated one. You are the tool for the elitists. You spread bigotry against the american people.

Foreign nations pour bribes into D.C. to harm the american people, and destroy the nation. At same time foreigners invade our nation, harm, steal, rape, and murder us americans are every opportunity.

You turn a blind eye to these facts. And you scream either "fascism" or "plant" for any organized group that combats these crimes against the american people.

It is a communist tool to accuse others of what YOU ARE GUILTY OF!!

That makes you a fascist and a plant.

Your post are in support of the continued of abuse and murder of the american people by foreigners.

The fact of the matter is you hate americans and support foreign interest in the efforts of harming the american people.

PaulCJ  posted on  2010-12-21   17:44:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: PaulCJ (#22)

You are the manipulated one. You are the tool for the elitists. You spread bigotry against the american people.

No, I spread reality. And the reality is that, although more are now awakening every day, a substantial percentage of the Sheeple, such as yourself, regard anyone who points out the realities and the indicators of an incipient totalitarian fascism, Neo Feudalism really, as "hating the American Sheeple". No, what I hate is ignorance, and the end which awaits us all if people, such as yourself, are unable to get a clue.

Foreign nations pour bribes into D.C. to harm the american people, and destroy the nation. At same time foreigners invade our nation, harm, steal, rape, and murder us americans are every opportunity.

You turn a blind eye to these facts. And you scream either "fascism" or "plant" for any organized group that combats these crimes against the american people.

Those are not merely mischaracterizations of my positions but flat out lies, and I defy you to produce even one iota of evidence to back up your scurrilous personal attacks. Were this another day and time lies and false accusations such as that would demand "satisfaction" upon the field of honor.

Your post are in support of the continued of abuse and murder of the american people by foreigners.

And your proof of that lie and personal attack is?

The fact of the matter is you hate americans and support foreign interest in the efforts of harming the american people.

Again a personal attack having no basis whatsoever in fact, which you cannot in any way substantiate, prove, document, or in any other way show evidence to support.

No, for whatever reason an honest acknowledgment of the existing state of affairs upsets the view from behind your Rose Colored Glasses. Your myopic vision and intentional misinterpretation and misrepresentation of other people's views, opinions, and expressions thereof is again simply another unsubstantiated and unsupported personal attack i.e., Argumentum Ad Hominem.

Of course you managed to include other formal fallacies e.g., Loaded Words.

"Noise proves nothing. Often a hen who has laid an egg cackles as if she had laid an asteroid." ~ Mark Twain

"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-12-21   18:04:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Original_Intent (#11)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." - Ben Franklin

Eric Stratton  posted on  2010-12-21   18:05:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Original_Intent (#23)

No, I spread reality.

You spread bigotry, hopelessness, and lies. You verbally go after those that offer solutions and you bring nothing but negativism.

PaulCJ  posted on  2010-12-21   18:30:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: PaulCJ (#25)

And again all you offer is an unsupported personal attack i.e., Argumentum Ad Hominem.

Been doing a refresher course on your Hasbara Manual?

"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-12-21   18:42:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Original_Intent (#26)

You are accusing me of what you are guilty of.

PaulCJ  posted on  2010-12-21   18:48:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: PaulCJ (#25)

Your post are in support of the continued of abuse and murder of the american people by foreigners.

You must support that quite strong assertion with facts and quotes.

This isn't LP. You cannot get away with those sort of charges without reasonable substantiation.

Warning: The linked image depicts a public official engaged in unhygienic acts. The poster is not responsible for violent upset on the part of viewers.

randge  posted on  2010-12-21   18:49:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: randge (#28)

This isn't LP. You cannot get away with those sort of charges without reasonable substantiation.

You didn't read the article.

PaulCJ  posted on  2010-12-21   18:53:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: PaulCJ, randge (#29) (Edited)

This isn't LP. You cannot get away with those sort of charges without reasonable substantiation.

You didn't read the article.

You didn't cite anything in the article.

So far all you have offered is unsupported assertions and personal attacks.

Not one scrap of fact or chain of logic to support your wild accusations.

"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-12-21   18:59:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: PaulCJ (#29)

You didn't read the article.

You didn't digest the article.

Warning: The linked image depicts a public official engaged in unhygienic acts. The poster is not responsible for violent upset on the part of viewers.

randge  posted on  2010-12-21   19:03:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Original_Intent (#30) (Edited)

It's fear that causes men to react this way.

It reminds me in many ways of the Vietnam era. Many Americans were confronted with stark evidence of the duplicity of administrations and legislators that were fighting a war in support of corrupt allies and employing strategies in support of a war that they'd concluded in their secret councils couldn't be won. We were throwing away the lives of our men, none of whom wanted to be the last to die in Southeast Asia.

A vast fabric of illusion had to be spun to get Americans to part with their sons and oceans of treasure on an endless foreign adventure. It is truly frightening to have that veil of illusion pierced by critics. The critics become nay-sayers, traitors, enemies of the people. The dis-illusioned get angry and lash out. They want to beat some ass.

Fear. I remember the feeling well back in those days when I first learned that all was not well in our nation and with the men who had taken us to war.

Warning: The linked image depicts a public official engaged in unhygienic acts. The poster is not responsible for violent upset on the part of viewers.

randge  posted on  2010-12-21   19:32:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: randge (#32)

A vast fabric of illusion had to be spun to get Americans to part with their sons and oceans of treasure on an endless foreign adventure. It is truly frightening to have that veil of illusion pierced by critics. The critics become nay-sayers, traitors, enemies of the people. The dis-illusioned get angry and lash out. They want to beat some ass.

I think your analysis is pretty much spot on. To which we could also add that because they have supported the lie they don't WANT to be wrong. It is an irrational response mechanism, I even have to guard against it myself but knowing it is there I can spot when it goes off and disregard it. People, most people, just have trouble accepting they are wrong and it causes a reaction deep in their psyche. It is basically a stimulus response mechanism and really has no conscious thought involved. It can get really screwy when you have an otherwise well intended person who finds out that they have erroneously been supporting something evil and they just can't "have" it. It is like Israel supporters who are incapable of seeing the evil being perpetrated by the Israeli Government and World Zionism - they can't be wrong and so therefore it is the people pointing out the evil that "just hate Jews", or some such rationalization.

I imagine much the same thing went on with a lot of people in Nazi Germany - they wanted to deny the existence of the evil because at some point they had been supporting it, but now they know it is wrong, but they can't be wrong, so the people saying it is wrong are the "bad guys". It is not rational but sadly is how some people "think", or not think as the case may be.

"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-12-21   19:54:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Original_Intent (#33)

they don't WANT to be wrong

Yeah, the five dollar nickel-plated word these days which you've heard egg heads use many times is "cognitive dissonance." Those are the bad vibes you get in your brain when it tries to contains two mutually incompatible propositions.

It hurts. When things hurt, the primitive reaction is to want to hurt someone. The victim wants to lash out.

Warning: The linked image depicts a public official engaged in unhygienic acts. The poster is not responsible for violent upset on the part of viewers.

randge  posted on  2010-12-21   20:20:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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