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War, War, War
See other War, War, War Articles

Title: Chinese missile can sink all US warships
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://engforum.pravda.ru/showthrea ... -the-oceans-Dailymail.uk/page5
Published: Dec 29, 2010
Author: by Terrence Aym
Post Date: 2010-12-29 06:09:16 by Tatarewicz
Keywords: None
Views: 561
Comments: 46

A new 'smart missile' threatens to tip the balance of power towards China, US military analysts say.

The latest generation of the Dong Feng 21D (DF-21D) [Photo] is a supercarrier killer according to experts on China's armaments. The missile can be launched from land and strike an aircraft carrier 900 miles away.

China has 11,200 miles of coastline. That fact coupled with the range and accuracy of the new missile could spell doom for any US or allied carrier fleet.

Patrick Cronin, a senior director of the Asia-Pacific Security Program that is part of the Washington, DC Center for a New American Security organization admits the DF 21D is designed to kill carriers—specifically US Naval carriers. “The Navy has long had to fear carrier—killing capabilities. The emerging Chinese anti-ship missile capability, and in particular the DF 21D, represents the first post—Cold War capability that is both potentially capable of stopping our naval power projection and deliberately designed for that purpose.”

The new Chinese military's 96166 Unit will be outfitted with DF 21C medium-range ballistic missiles (MRBM) and possibly the DF-21D ASBM as well.

For more than a decade Pentagon strategists, analysts and war-gamers have worried about a new super missile that could pierce America's invincible carrier fleet. The carriers maintain the dominant American influence in the East Asian waters and counterbalance the threat of the globally emerging China.

With the potential loss of carrier superiority, the US faces the prospect of a very real Chinese move on Taiwan. It also could potentially greatly weaken the US leverage on North Korea and expose South Korea to greater military risk.

Other than a nuclear attack, American carriers are well shielded with defensive weaponry, high-tech machinery of war and of course state-of-the-art jet fighter aircraft and jet bombers. All US carriers are also equipped with conventional cruise missiles and nuclear-tipped cruise missiles.

"The Chinese now have a weapon that can potentially neutralize our 21st Century carrier fleet," a USN admiral said under conditions of anonymity. "If the Chinese decide to deploy it and launch against us we'd be backed into a corner. We'd have to respond with our nuclear arsenal."

The Chinese were floundering in attempts to build effective missiles until the Clinton administration agreed to sell China three Cray supercomputers as part of a trade deal. Intelligence analysts agree that China immediately put the superior computing power to work for their military, especially nuclear and missile development.

the Chinese are well aware their new weapon has the ability to checkmate the US Navy. For several years the Chinese government has become more strident in their demands that US naval forces stay out of the Yellow, East and South China seas. Beijing has flatly claimed that region as theirs.

International experts claim that several US naval exercises during the past several years have been delayed or moved because of Chinese threats. They point out China strongly protested war game exercises the US planned jointly with South Korea in the Yellow Sea. The naval task forces would have conducted operations near the north-eastern Chinese coast. China flatly stated any such exercise within the vicinity of its coastal waters would be a provocative action. They claimed that the naval forces would be within striking distance of Beijing. In the end the tensions were resolved by the US moving the exercise to the Sea of Japan.

Pentagon officials, however, flatly denied that was the motivation for moving the location of the exercises. In a terse statement to the press the Pentagon dismissed the allocation that any Chinese pressure ever modified any planned US naval exercises.

The Pentagon added that the United States Navy will not be told by Beijing where they can or cannot operate operate. “We reserve the right to exercise in international waters anywhere in the world,” declared Rear Admiral Daniel Cloyd, who headed the U.S.exercises.

As China has risen into the ranks of an emerging superpower, so has its military. Better armed, better trained, the Chinese navy is seeking to extend its influence across more of the region. And that region is rapidly expanding. Virtually each of the last 20 years China has funneled more and more money into its military forces and weaponry. China has maintained a stunning double-digit growth rate in military expenditures for all of those two decades.

With the new generation of missile and more to come, the US position has weakened and may weaken more in the years ahead.

Toshi Yoshihara, an associate professor at the U.S. Naval War College asserts that now “China can reach out and hit the U.S. well before the U.S. can get close enough to the mainland to hit back." China has maneuvered itself into a position where it can threaten and deter US action. The US has only faced such a situation during the action in the Pacific against the Japanese during WWII and when facing down the Soviet threat during the Cold War.

Considering the implications and significant threat of China's new generation of carrier-killing missiles, Yoshihara foresees the possibility that they “could have an enduring psychological effect on U.S. policymakers. It underscores more broadly that the U.S. Navy no longer rules the waves as it has since the end of World War II. The stark reality is that sea control cannot be taken for granted anymore.”

US power in the region is gradually being eclipsed. Sources:

Background on Dong Feng 21 missile series

Chinese 'Carrier-Killer' Missile Could Reshape Sea Combat - Fox News Chinese missile could shift Pacific power balance" - The Hindu Learn more about this author, Terrence Aym.

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#1. To: Tatarewicz, Jethro tull, Phant2000, Lod, All Paulites (#0)

is a supercarrier killer according to experts on China's armaments. The missile can be launched from land and strike an aircraft carrier 900 miles away.

China has 11,200 miles of coastline. That fact coupled with the range and accuracy of the new missile could spell doom for any US or allied carrier fleet.

Snicker, snarf...

Lets see now, the chinks launch one missile (guaranteed to hit) at one carrier 900 miles away. Or maybe to make sure, they launch six????? Either way, the carrier is doomed. Best we surrender now.

Or just perhaps, the carrier might KNOW the missile has been launched their way? Standard procedure, they keep 24/7 air cover, armed with nukes and conventional weapons. Then there are the little guys in the destroyers that can spot a launch within seconds and determine its target. They would have to be asleep.

Then there are the subs prowling around, each with sixteen BEEG ONES, and they are are only 100 miles off the China coast. Guess we have them asleep also.

Either way, splash one carrier, splash one China into a nuclear wasteland.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-12-29   8:04:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Tatarewicz (#0)

The Chinese were floundering in attempts to build effective missiles until the Clinton administration agreed to sell China three Cray supercomputers as part of a trade deal.

Clinton, his legacy of treason lives on.

"The person who agrees with you 80 percent of the time is a friend and an ally — not a 20 percent traitor" - Ronald Reagan

Flintlock  posted on  2010-12-29   8:55:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Tatarewicz (#0)

and the Federal Reserve can sink the US economy with a couple of 'keystrokes'.

Itistoolate  posted on  2010-12-29   8:58:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Itistoolate, 4 (#3)

We are dead men walking.

Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its idiot.

Lod  posted on  2010-12-29   9:25:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Lod (#4)

We are dead men walking.

We are dead men typing.

Itistoolate  posted on  2010-12-29   9:29:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Itistoolate (#5)

lol

Great point.

Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its idiot.

Lod  posted on  2010-12-29   9:33:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Tatarewicz (#0)

The Truth of 911 Shall Set You Free From The Lie

Horse  posted on  2010-12-29   10:41:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Cynicom (#1)

Either way, splash one carrier, splash one China into a nuclear wasteland.

That outcome depends of course on the actions of a decisive CiC in the command bunker deep under the White House - or perhaps out on the golf course.

Warning: The linked image depicts a public official engaged in unhygienic acts. The poster is not responsible for violent upset on the part of viewers.

randge  posted on  2010-12-29   12:04:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: randge (#8)

That outcome depends of course on the actions of a decisive CiC in the command bunker deep under the White House - or perhaps out on the golf course.

Years ago were were told, without equivocation, that we would have at most a days notice, and at least hours warning.

I can now see that down timed to hours and minutes.

The response to that warning has to be set in concrete.

Then we had lead time and recall if there was an error, now most is delivered by missile with no recall.

There can be no hesitation, and no error.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-12-29   12:15:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Tatarewicz (#0)

I do not believe anything anyone in any government says, especially when it comes to "threats."

"If ever this vast country is brought under a single government, it will be one of the most extensive corruption, indifferent and incapable of a wholesome care over so wide a spread of surface. This will not be borne, and you will have to choose between reform and revolution. If I know the spirit of this country, the one or the other is inevitable." - Thomas Jefferson

Turtle  posted on  2010-12-29   12:16:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Turtle (#10)

I do not believe anything anyone in any government says, especially when it comes to "threats."

The carriers are for two purposes.

Project power into the bad guys backyard and as bait.

If the bad guy is up to something, he MUST FIRST DEAL WITH THE THREAT LYING OFF SHORE, there is no alternative. The US is 7000 miles away and it takes time even for a missile to reach here.

That is the reason the Chinks have six carriers on the drawing boards.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-12-29   12:23:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Cynicom (#1)

Either way, splash one carrier, splash one China into a nuclear wasteland.

Except that it acts as a counter move in the bigger geopolitical game. It is like the comment made by the great Grandmaster of Chess Howard Staunton that the most powerful threat is one that is held unrealized. The point being that it exists and cannot be ignored. It is like having a piece en prix and the opponent must focus his attention on trying to protect it while the other side is left to perform other maneuvers.

Of course dealing with the Chinese the game is really "Go" and is more subtle. Only when a Go Master has completed the set up will the overall design of the strategy begin to emerge, and by then it is too late.

"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-12-29   12:28:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Cynicom (#11)

I wonder what would happen to the Three Gorges Dam with a missile strike? Probably take out more people than a Chinese doom and gloom special I'm guessing.

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

Brian D  posted on  2010-12-29   12:30:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Original_Intent (#12)

Of course dealing with the Chinese the game is really "Go" and is more subtle. Only when a Go Master has completed the set up will the overall design of the strategy begin to emerge, and by then it is too late.

The major players know full well that when the first one is heaved, there will be no hesitation, there cannot be.

No absorbing the first punch as in olde warfare, this time it is all out on day one.

To preclude this, I suspect the bad guys will try FIRST the endless killing of a ground war. We lose any ground war, we lose any nuclear war.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-12-29   12:33:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Brian D (#13)

I wonder what would happen to the Three Gorges Dam with a missile strike? Probably take out more people than a Chinese doom and gloom special I'm guessing.

I am sure that is a target, however, first go around is still most likely to be kill as many humans as possible.

In my day, there was NO strategic target, the job was to wipe as many cities off the map as possible, all gone one day, kill everyone near in a flash.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-12-29   12:38:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Cynicom (#14)

You have to understand the Chinese mindset though, and it is a different viewpoint than in the West. The Chinese will attempt to win the battle, ala Sun Tzu, without firing a shot. It is a game of barriers and encirclement until there is no longer any move to be made.

"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-12-29   12:46:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Cynicom (#15)

If you are looking at sheer numbers, taking out that dam will do it. It just wont be in a flash. Just wet. And deep.

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

Brian D  posted on  2010-12-29   12:50:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Original_Intent (#12)

According to this article in the Washington Times, the Chinese have achieved "initial operational capability" with this system, but have not proven the sea and space sensors, navigation systems and precision guidance technology required for a a live-fire test attack on an actual ship.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/dec/27/china-deploying-carrier-sinking-ballistic-missile/

Nevertheless, the Chinese MIC has not thrown the amount of resources necessary to launch a weapon like this without the commitment to developing the ancillary hardware required to make this missile operational. From what our admirals are saying, the DF-21 is being takes seriously as an significant move on the strategic chessboard.

I don't doubt Chinese talent in creating new technology, but I do wonder how much of ours was given away by figures of doubtful patriotism like Clinton and Gore.

Warning: The linked image depicts a public official engaged in unhygienic acts. The poster is not responsible for violent upset on the part of viewers.

randge  posted on  2010-12-29   12:57:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: randge (#18)

I don't doubt Chinese talent in creating new technology, but I do wonder how much of ours was given away by figures of doubtful patriotism like Clinton and Gore.

Personally, I don't think there is any doubt about their patriotism, they have none. Klinton and Bore answer to the upper reaches of the Bilderbergs and no one else. To such as them such terms as honor, loyalty, and patriotism are words without meaning. It is questionable as to whether they could even spell them (and Bushbama is the same).

"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-12-29   13:01:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Original_Intent (#19)

I don't think there is any doubt about their patriotism

No, of course not. There is none there.

And how far back do you have to go to name a president or vice president who was a patriot through and through and who was not a compromised globalist?

Warning: The linked image depicts a public official engaged in unhygienic acts. The poster is not responsible for violent upset on the part of viewers.

randge  posted on  2010-12-29   13:17:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Tatarewicz (#0)

The Chinese were floundering in attempts to build effective missiles until the Clinton administration agreed to sell China three Cray supercomputers as part of a trade deal. Intelligence analysts agree that China immediately put the superior computing power to work for their military, especially nuclear and missile development.

glad someone is pointing out the treachery of those creeps. that being said....

Other than a nuclear attack, American carriers are well shielded with defensive weaponry, high-tech machinery of war and of course state-of-the-art jet fighter aircraft and jet bombers. All US carriers are also equipped with conventional cruise missiles and nuclear-tipped cruise missiles.

"The Chinese now have a weapon that can potentially neutralize our 21st Century carrier fleet," a USN admiral said under conditions of anonymity. "If the Chinese decide to deploy it and launch against us we'd be backed into a corner. We'd have to respond with our nuclear arsenal." .....

The Pentagon added that the United States Navy will not be told by Beijing where they can or cannot operate. “We reserve the right to exercise in international waters anywhere in the world,” declared Rear Admiral Daniel Cloyd, who headed the U.S.exercises.

Pity the poor, ignorant blokes that follow these blind, pompous puppets of the Elders of Sion, possibly to their deaths. It is prophesied that America's battle bow will be broken, when the time is right, and it looks to be close to that time.

Micah 5:10 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD, that I will cut off thy horses out of the midst of thee, and I will destroy thy chariots:

Zechariah 9:10 I will take away the chariots from Ephraim [Christian America] and the war-horses from Jerusalem [the same], and the battle bow will be broken. He will proclaim peace to the nations. His rule will extend from sea to sea and from the River to the ends of the earth.

bible.cc/micah/5-10.htm

Ezekiel 36:14 Therefore thou shalt devour men no more, neither bereave thy nations any more, saith the Lord GOD. bible.cc/ezekiel/36-14.htm

See also Ezekiel 38:18 , whole chapter, Ezekiel 39:3, whole chapter.

Zechariah 2:5 Then I, myself, will be a protective wall of fire around JerUSAlem [Psalm 2:6, www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55421 ], and will be the glory in the midst of her..... bible.cc/zechariah/2-5.htm

8 For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.... bible.cc/zechariah/2-8.htm

"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm

AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt  posted on  2010-12-29   14:19:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Original_Intent (#16)

The Chinese will attempt to win the battle, ala Sun Tzu, without firing a shot. It is a game of barriers and encirclement until there is no longer any move to be made.

I do know something of their mindset.

However, they understand that sheer numbers and time will not bring them the world. They tried war with Russia, Japan and the US and gained nothing. In Asia, they stand alone, they have no willing allies, not even the North Koreans.

As long as the US maintains a strong foothold on the Asian mainland and its periphery, China is going nowhere. Looking back to the Korean war, as a late comer to the war the Chinese lost nearly a million men, twenty times our loss.

Now they are much advanced in technology but feeding two billion people has become a problem. Add no oil and they will be hesitant about leaving the mainland.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-12-29   15:50:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Cynicom (#22)

In Asia, they stand alone, they have no willing allies

They're working on it; Chinese were first to announce the welcoming of South Africa into the BRIC. In a few years they will have rail connections not only through much of Asia but to Germany as well. With so many depending on China, including GM, it makes no sense to attack it.

Tatarewicz  posted on  2010-12-30   0:15:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Cynicom (#22)

You still aren't seeing what I mean. The Chinese are very patient and are willing to work and plan over a long period of time. You have to understand Go to understand the mindset and strategy. I am not a Go Master by any measure but I understand the basic strategy and tactics of the game. In Go, unlike Chess which we in the west are familiar with, one does not capture an opposing piece by directly taking it i.e., a frontal assault, but by encirclement. When an opposing piece, or pieces, are completely encircled then they are removed. So, the game advances by slowly expanding and controlling more and more of the board. The Game is over when one player dominates a majority of the board. A real Go Master may be envisioning the board 20 or 30 moves into the future. At the higher levels the game becomes ever more intricate and subtle. Chinese maneuvering reflects that mindset with advances and retreats to encircle, entice overbold action, and eventually when everything is set up the trap swings shut.

"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2010-12-30   3:09:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Original_Intent (#24) (Edited)

www.cielowind.com/news/sh...g-power-us-reg-and-cielo- wind-sign-definitive-agreement-for-600-mw-west-texas-wind-farm-project

www.cielowind.com/news/ne...een-inc-blog-chinese-and- american-partners-to-build-massive-west-texas-wind-farm

www.cielowind.com/news/au...cielo-chinese-partner-to- build-wind-farm

The Chinese are very patient and are willing to work and plan over a long period of time.

CadetD recently alerted me to a con game with Chinese involvement right here in my own backyard.

A 100 Million Dollar wind farm is being built and CIELO is touted as the builder. LOOKIE here:

Shenyang Power, US-REG and Cielo Wind Sign Definitive Agreement for 600 MW West Texas Wind Farm Project December 20th, 2009 | Published in In the News, Press Releases

Shenyang, China, December 20, 2009 –- A-Power Energy Generation Systems, Ltd. (NASDAQ: APWR) (”A-Power” or “the Company”), a leading provider of distributed power generation (“DG”) systems in China and a fast-growing manufacturer of wind turbines, today announced that Shenyang Power Group (“SPG”), together with affiliates of U.S. Renewable Energy Group (“US-REG”) and Cielo Wind Power, LP (“Cielo Wind”), have entered into a definitive agreement for their ownership of a project company to develop a 600 MW wind farm in Texas. The signing ceremony was held today in Washington D.C.

A-Power is a shareholder of SPG. A-Power has been designated to supply wind turbines to this project, which is expected to be one of the largest wind farms in the U.S. No details of the agreement were disclosed.

On October 29, 2009, A-Power announced the signing of the framework agreement of the joint venture among SPG, affiliates of US-REG and Cielo Wind on the Texas wind farm.

Americans need to wake up and quit China !

"Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were (ever) our countrymen!”".

noone222  posted on  2010-12-30   5:05:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Tatarewicz (#23)

With so many depending on China, including GM, it makes no sense to attack it.

China would be the attacker, not the attackee.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-12-30   5:37:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Original_Intent (#24)

You still aren't seeing what I mean.

Perhaps what you mean is confusing to what is reality.

Geopolitics determines wars, not whether the people are willing to wait generations for redress.

The attacker always attacks when they consider they have an advantage, not wait til the attackee dies.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-12-30   5:40:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Cynicom (#27)

The attacker always attacks when they consider they have an advantage, not wait til the attackee dies.

As usual I will lose zero winks of sleep tonight over Chinese missiles.

The Chinese are doing quite nicely thank you in relentlessly making us ever more a non issue by expanding their economy while ours withers and and we trudge forward on Chinese welfare.

The military-industrial complex can do no better than announcing a scaaarry war threat (in response to whispers, whispers only, of reduction in defense spending?).

For the "geo-political" picture in today's situation, look back only as far as our "triumphant" victory over the U.S.S.R. at the end of Reagan's tour. We the people then began to be fed a daily diet of loony bullshit "rules to live by", i.e. NWO, "free trade" (zero protectionism), a service economy (taking in each others wash), turning over the Wall Street hen house to the foxes (Glass-Steagall), multi-culturalism, affirmative action, total abandonment of historical immigration common sense (Somali immigrants), accelerated social engineering in our train-wreck of an education system, and abandonment of national sovereignty on our southern border.

In two miserable decades we have managed to completely reverse the cold war picture of the "great contest". Now we have effectively assumed the role of Russia as the blustering bully-nation, i.e. being "all hat and no cattle".

It's about time for about three decades of isolationism and a serious period of self inspection. There, fixed.

Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. .... Yeats

iconoclast  posted on  2010-12-30   8:10:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: iconoclast (#28)

Good post.

Godfrey Smith: Mike, I wouldn't worry. Prosperity is just around the corner.
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)

Esso  posted on  2010-12-30   8:31:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: iconoclast (#28)

As usual I will lose zero winks of sleep tonight over Chinese missiles.

Indeed.

Now we will need a brand new anti missile, missile, missile.

However, history does bear out that that not all intentions of the war people are dishonorable or immoral. They are professional and a segment of their work displays that fact.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-12-30   9:43:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Cynicom (#30)

However, history does bear out that that not all intentions of the war people are dishonorable or immoral.

The two best examples that leap to my mind are drones on the one hand and Lt. Col. Allen West on the other.

Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart; the center cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity. .... Yeats

iconoclast  posted on  2010-12-30   9:57:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: iconoclast, *post of the day* (#28)

very well said

christine  posted on  2010-12-30   10:10:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: iconoclast (#31)

The two best examples that leap to my mind are drones on the one hand and Lt. Col. Allen West on the other.

Perhaps before your day.

Ike offered the Russians an open sky policy, with no restrictions. They demurred and turned it into a propaganda effort. In return we were running military spy aircraft around and over Russia.

The can do people came up with the U2 aircraft on the cheap, from that came SR71.

The deep professional thinkers of the military got the information they needed.

Wars are "PLANNED FOR" far in advance.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-12-30   10:25:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: iconoclast, Cynicom, 4 (#31) (Edited)

I heard today what makes this missile so effective; it goes way up in the atmosphere and then comes back down on target. Plus it is completely controllable from the ground.

It's on a mobile, land-based platform all along China's coast.

We believe it's range is 1,200 - 1,500 miles.

Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its idiot.

Lod  posted on  2010-12-30   10:26:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Lod, iconoclast, Phant2000, thinkers (#34)

"November 23, 2010

"In late October, a Japanese Kongo class destroyer shot down a ballistic missile off Hawaii, using its Aegis anti-missile system. That makes three successful Aegis tests for Japan's Aegis equipped destroyers, out of four attempts. Overall, Aegis has been successful in 85 percent of its test firings."

Currently, the U.S. Navy has 20 ships with the Aegis anti-missile system. Within three years, the navy will have 27 such ships. But in the meantime, the Aegis ABM (Anti-Ballistic Missile)s are in high demand by U.S. commanders, seeking some protection from hostile missiles in their area of operation. Japan has six Aegis ABM equipped warships, and these are used to provide protection from any North Korean mischief. But six isn't enough, and some American ships are doing ABM patrols off Korea as well. However, the navy needs these Aegis ABM ships for other work as well, and this is causing problems when the Department of Defense and the president come seeking some instant ABM protection. Aegis is usually the quickest way of providing it. The navy is a victim of its own success.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-12-30   10:34:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Lod (#34)

I heard today what makes this missile so effective; it goes way up in the atmosphere and then comes back down on target.

Yes, Wernher von Braun developed this technology in the 1940s. It's called the ballistic missile. Once this weapon reaches the apex of it's trajectory, it comes down like a bullet from above and is extremely hard to intercept. Once it goes up it cannot be recalled although it can be rigged for self destruction on the part of the attacker. It is what made the balance of terror during the cold war so terrible.

Plus it is completely controllable from the ground.

This is a problem that the Chinese have yet to solve. The new and improved Dong Feng is not a stand alone weapon. It requires a wide ranging surveillance system to bring it to a state of alert. It also relies on a sensors at sea and in space to bring it within range of its target. All of this technology has yet to be tested on an objective floating in the ocean in order to see if the terminal guidance system will actually hit the bullseye.

Warning: The linked image depicts a public official engaged in unhygienic acts. The poster is not responsible for violent upset on the part of viewers.

randge  posted on  2010-12-30   10:44:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Cynicom (#35)

I'm glad you brought up Aegis. I was going to ask if anyone here had a good handle on how well our defensive missile systems could handle the DF-21D.

Supposing for a moment that the Aegis is up to this job, the question then becomes: "Which side can afford to proliferate most effectively?" In other words, once the support systems are in place, can the Chinese more cheaply tie down the capabilities of an Aegis equipped cruiser with a few missiles on trucks than we can afford to float these costly ships?

Warning: The linked image depicts a public official engaged in unhygienic acts. The poster is not responsible for violent upset on the part of viewers.

randge  posted on  2010-12-30   11:03:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Cynicom (#14)

You are talking about the USA of the past. The present USA is being dismantled and the people being prepared for genocide. The goal is to kill Christains, Judaism's most hated enemy.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2010-12-30   11:50:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: randge (#37)

Supposing for a moment that the Aegis is up to this job, the question then becomes

We are far and away ahead of China and Russia with Aegis.

Much to their consternation, we are equipping other countries with it.

It is in fact so good that the military seldom mentions that it just may be able to knock down satellites. (hint) When you have time you mite view the radar and missile facilities on Kwajalein.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-12-30   13:16:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: RickyJ, randge, Phant2000 (#38)

You are talking about the USA of the past.

And present and future.

We are the strongest military power in the world. That is not and has not been degraded. The rest of the world knows and understands that.

We may be broke but we are the worlds premier military power.

Cynicom  posted on  2010-12-30   13:21:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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