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Title: Survival Strategy Advice Requested
Source:
Me
URL Source: [None]
Published: Feb 13, 2011
Author: Me
Post Date: 2011-02-13 14:55:09 by Critter
Keywords: survival, homesteading, farming, SHTF
Views: 1120
Comments: 40
I have a decision upcoming, and I'm finding it difficult to be objective about it. Currently I have 16 acres of unimproved land 1200 miles from here in southern Missouri. The reasons for buying there instead of here in NY were a) price, b) low taxes, c) warmer climate, d) no building codes or zoning laws in effect. My plan was to rent here in NY until ready to retire, all the while, building the homestead of my dreams as time and money allowed. I wanted to own everything free and clear come retirement. However, recent events here are making a move out of the city I am in, into the country nearby, a necessity. I have found two properties, one which I can easily afford, with a small ranch house and two acres of land. The other is the homestead of my dreams, already built, on 34 acres. The 2nd one is pricier, and I can just barely afford it now, and will be better able afford it in the next year or so. Business is very good and and getting better every day. The larger property has a three bedroom modular ranch with full basement, an extremely wide exterior entry to the basement, with heavy duty stairs, which makes moving heavy machinery in and out quite easy. excellent man cave. It has a detached steel garage/workshop, approximately 30X40. It has a ten stall steel stable building. 25 of the acres are cleared and electric fenced for horses. The rest is mostly cleared without fencing. There is very little standing timber on the land but it backs up to a heavily wooded hill/mountain. To survive in this area in a SHTF situation where commodities like oil and gas and propane are difficult to impossible to get, the place would need about 6 cords of firewood a season to heat. I would need 18 on 20 cords in reserve for long term survival. I will be getting older and of course, less able to cut and split firewood manually. If I get another 5 or 8 years of "normal" living before SHTF, then I can prepare it better for survival with solar heat, electric, wind power, set up to make bio diesel, etc. The cool thing about this property is that I can shoot almost 1/3 of a mile. That's what really excites me. lol I can come home and practice, practice, practice, in my own back yard. There's enough here to raise chickens, have horses, raise some dairy and beef. It's all set up and ready to go. The only thing that scares me is can I make it through the winters as an older gent in a pretty harsh climate. Temperatures can dip down to -20f at night and stay below zero for days or more. Poster Comment: I am soliciting advice from the objective thinkers here. Do I buy the small one and keep the dream homestead in southern MO alive, or go for the one that's close to my business, already built, and a sure thing? It's already built and survivable now. It's not ten years and 1200 miles away. What would you do? I should add that if things keep going as well as they are, I should be able to pay off the large NY property in about 10 years. Taxes as of now are $2600 a year. In MO, taxes on 16 acres are $25 a year.
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#1. To: Critter (#0)
White people. I saw one black couple in Branson and did a double take. Not a whole lot of jobs in the Ozarks, though. You can pretty much support yourself on a small lot of land if you want to cut your own firewood and do a little hunting. I've seen nice A-frame houses rent for $400 a month.
"If ever this vast country is brought under a single government, it will be one of the most extensive corruption, indifferent and incapable of a wholesome care over so wide a spread of surface. This will not be borne, and you will have to choose between reform and revolution. If I know the spirit of this country, the one or the other is inevitable." - Thomas Jefferson
My advice is to buy all that you can afford today. You can still afford the large NY property and keep the MO land? I hope. As more and more people wake up! and look for bug-out land, the more that MO land should appreciate.
Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its idiot.
I can afford the NY land and I can keep the MO land, but I won't be able to improve it.
a) price, b) low taxes, c) warmer climate, d) no building codes or zoning laws in effect.
#2. To: Critter (#0)
#3. To: Lod (#2)
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#4. To: Critter (#3)
What utilities are on/available to the properties? well water? (Next to gun-porn threads, I enjoy real estate-porn threads.)
Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its idiot.
#5. To: Lod (#4)
Well, the one in NY has a septic system, and a drilled well. The one in MO has nothing yet. In NY, it has electricity, in MO, no electric available at the moment but coming in a year or two as homes get built in the area. If I kept it small in NY and had money to invest in MO, I would build it to run off the grid. If I invest in the larger property in NY, I don't see having the money to do anything in MO anytime in the near future. My hands would be full. I would be improving NY to be able to run off the grid.
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#6. To: Critter (#0)
The snow and cold back in Montana is why I live in Oregon. Here's a viable option (and there are some availabe in Mo. as well: Atlas F Missile Silo base located in Southwestern Oklahoma NOTE: This property and this web site are in a constant state of change. Please check back regularly for updates to the web site and for completed renovation projects on this property. Current photos are available here. This property is an Atlas F Missile Silo base located west of Hobart, Oklahoma in Southwestern Oklahoma. It was Site 2 of the 577th Strategic Missile Squadron which was based at Altus Air Force Base in Altus, Oklahoma. This property is a total of 8.5 acres. Approximately five acres are enclosed inside a 7-foot chain link fence. Both of the original quonset hut buildings are still in place. The fact that both quonset huts are on site is rare and very few Atlas sites in the country still have both quonset huts. Each quonset hut is 40' x 100' for a total of 8,000 square feet. Electrical power has been upgraded to a 325 Amp capacity transformer and both quonset huts have active electrical service to them. The East/West quonset hut is currently being used as a storage and parking garage area and has a 100 Amp main panel. The North/South quonset hut has a 200 Amp main panel and supplies power to the living quarters that have been built into this building. Residential type 110/240VAC single phase power has been run into the underground LCC via a 200 Amp main panel. Three-phase electrical poles and wiring run onto the property from the electrical grid. Separate electrical meters split the above-ground structures from the underground LCC. A 2" water line is on-site providing well water from a rural water district. The water line currently feeds the living quarters in the North/South quonset hut and a future update will provide water into the underground LCC. On-site communications include an 8-wire buried telephone service capable of 4 independent phone lines. Phone service has been extended into the underground LCC. High speed Internet access is also on-site using high speed wireless through a local Motorola Canopy based network. This Internet access has also been extended into the underground LCC. An on-site monitored security system extends throughout the North/South quonset hut and includes circuits into various underground structures as well as the above ground pump house. The original water well pump house is currently being used as a storage area for yard tools and site maintenance equipment. If you have a serious interest in purchasing this unique property, contact the owner at siloforsale@gmail.com. This site will require full payment for the property upon closing, therefore a contract for deed is not available. Thank you for your interest and check back often as updates will be added to this web site as renovation projects are completed.
#7. To: Critter (#5)
You have options - much more than many in our country have. Great good luck, whatever your decision.
Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its idiot.
#8. To: Lod (#7)
Thanks, I am heavily leaning toward the big one in NY. I just want to make sure I am not thinking with my .308 shooting 800 yards in the back yard. lol
Great good luck, whatever your decision.
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#9. To: Critter (#0) (Edited)
Atlas F site Click here to order the video tour of this exceptional property 
Upstate NY's Adirondack State Park
20 acres (or more). Most highly developed Atlas F site, part of exclusive airport subdivision on (FAA approved) 2050' runway, Low taxes. Privacy, security, and, unlimited possibilities. NO other like it anywhere.
Price $2.3 million.
Click here for more photos and info.
#10. To: Critter (#0) (Edited)
Communications Vault Hardened Underground Communications Vault on 13 acres (more or less), built in the 1960’s as a nuclear war-proof communications center, 8,200 sq. ft. usable floor space. Good neighbors. Near Mark Twain recreational lake. Excellent for underground home or secure document storage facility. Price: firm at $295,000. for cash sale 
Paris, Missouri 
Lift to raise and lower materials and supplies
#11. To: All (#10)
New Atlas E Property available! this facility in Osage City, KS is commuting distance to Topeka, KS and has: • 25 acres (more or less) • paved access road • commuting distance to Topeka, KS • Rural water, electrical and sewer system on site ready for re-connection • Perimeter barbed wire fence • Atlas E “coffin style” structure (the best missile site type for retrofit use) • 15,000 sq. ft of hardened underground floor space • 18 inch concrete walls and ceilings • 3 ft. earth over structure • 47 ton drive-in door (presently open but inoperable) • 150 ft. of tunnel, structures presently flooded Price: $285,000. (price to increase when drained in spring 2011) A video for this site will be available this spring. Contact 20th Century Castles, LLC for more information. email. edpeden@missilebases.com ph. Ed Peden at 785-256-6029 Atlas E sites are the best for retrofitting. These photos are examples as they don't have any of this site up yet: 
#12. To: Turtle (#1)
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." - Ben Franklin
#13. To: Critter (#5)
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." - Ben Franklin
#14. To: Eric Stratton, Critter, 4 (#13)
Agree. That's why I'd choose the NY already improved property. Not having to start from scratch saves many tens of thousands of $$$. Get it sustainable, self-supporting, and defensible, and clan Critter is good to go.
One of the problems you face is if that if things deteriorate quickly, you may have a tough time making that MO property serviceable.
Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its idiot.
#15. To: Eric Stratton (#13)
For NY, $2600 in property taxes is pretty cheap. My brother on Long Island pays $18k a year. OMFG!
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#16. To: Lod (#14)
Unfortunately, clan critter is rather small. I have a 17 year old daughter starting college in September. That's it. :) I need to find an instant family, huh? One with a couple of teenage boys, right?
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#17. To: Critter (#0)
Whenever you can't decide between A and B it's probably because you're asking the wrong question. Try to find something twice as nice for half the price someplace where it doesn't snow. In this real estate market you'll soon have half a dozen choices and the correct answer will be easier to see.
"Do I buy the small one and keep the dream homestead in southern MO alive, or go for the one that's close to my business, already built, and a sure thing?"
"I am soliciting advice...."
#18. To: Critter (#0)
Tell us more about the 2 acre property.
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)
#19. To: Critter (#16)
You get going on that property up there and Critterettes will be swarming to your door. If they bring some young muscle, put'em to work earning their keep. Have fun with it. Otherwise, it's just more work.
Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its idiot.
#20. To: Turtle (#1)
Not a whole lot of jobs in the Ozarks, though. You can pretty much support yourself on a small lot of land if you want to cut your own firewood and do a little hunting. I live on Table Rock Lake, just south of Branson,Mo. just inside Ark. It's an ecellant place to live, and property prices are very good. There are minorities here, but few, Hispanic and Black. The Platters live here, among other entertainers. Research the Pontiac survivalist standoff to get the tone of the area.
"I saw one black couple in Branson and did a double take.
#21. To: Critter (#0) (Edited)
My advice,which can be shared by anyone,talk to the owner,some modulars are built with 2x6 outer walls,most are 2x4 outer walls.Ask about the grade 'R' factor of the insulation.Ask about the crawl space,if it is think insulation...or if it is on a slab,consider geo-thermal heat.Go into the attic,take a good look at the insulation,it matters.Heating this modular,and heating your water(its a well I hope) will be your biggest priority.Just a few solar panels and a DC electric pump in the well,is something to consider.Think about a cistern,or at the very least put rain barrels at all gutter down spouts.LEARN to garden,it is fun and extremely prudent. The water source is critical,if you have to rely on the infrastructure,do not buy the place!
I am soliciting advice
#22. To: Esso (#18)
The 2 acre is another modular 3br ranch on 2 acres in the same area. It's 80k less. There's not much to say about it. No distinguishing characteristics, except the land is fully cleared, no standing timber to speak of. Both are surrounded by various types of farms.
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#23. To: Big Meanie (#17)
Interesting perspective. Thanks! :)
Try to find something twice as nice for half the price someplace where it doesn't snow.
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#24. To: paddlefeet, Critter, 4 (#21)
So correct on geo-thermal! where the size of the property allows. Great, great point.
Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its idiot.
#25. To: Critter (#3)
My 2 cents is since you can and will prepare to shelter in place in your new freezer why keep your old dream alive. Appreciation on your 16 acre unimproved piece has either happened or is unlikely, cut the cord and use the $$$ to improve your odds where you intend to live. 1600 miles is a long way to drive and your chance of getting any recreational use out of the property are.... not so good. To compare buying power nationwide you might want to look here. I can afford the NY land and I can keep the MO land, but I won't be able to improve it.
" Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics................................ Even if you win, you're still retarded ":
Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities also has the power to make you commit atrocities. –Voltaire
#26. To: paddlefeet (#21)
I would almost immediately build one of these for hot water and another to supplement heat, all run on dc solar powered pumps.
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#27. To: ndcorup (#20)
I took my last ex-girlfriend to Table Rock Lake, to the reception building. We were sitting outside in back, and one guy said, "This is God's country," and I said, "Yes, it is." She wanted to buy some land there, but finally didn't do it. The Ozarks is an amazing area, and very underappreciated. We had a great time playing miniature golf - the one with the huge skull with the crashed planed on top.
I live on Table Rock Lake, just south of Branson,Mo. just inside Ark.
"If ever this vast country is brought under a single government, it will be one of the most extensive corruption, indifferent and incapable of a wholesome care over so wide a spread of surface. This will not be borne, and you will have to choose between reform and revolution. If I know the spirit of this country, the one or the other is inevitable." - Thomas Jefferson
#28. To: Critter (#0)
When God opens a door, you walk through it.
Tough women come from New York, sweet women from Texas, prissy women from Southern California, but we NORTHERN CALIFORNIA WOMEN have fire & ice in our blood. We can ride 4-wheelers, be a princess, throw a left hook, pack heat, hunt with the men, bake a cake, love with passion, and if we have an opinion, you know you're going to hear it!!
#29. To: farmfriend (#28)
Yeah, that's how I knocked up my ex and ended up in hell for the next 20 some odd years. :p Or maybe that was a door the devil opened?
When God opens a door, you walk through it.
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#30. To: Critter (#29)
LOL
Tough women come from New York, sweet women from Texas, prissy women from Southern California, but we NORTHERN CALIFORNIA WOMEN have fire & ice in our blood. We can ride 4-wheelers, be a princess, throw a left hook, pack heat, hunt with the men, bake a cake, love with passion, and if we have an opinion, you know you're going to hear it!!
#31. To: Critter (#0)
I don't know how objective I can be, Critter, because I lived in Southern Missouri, the Ozarks actually, and loved it there. I have two sons that have never left and haved raised their families there and now are enjoying their grandchildren. It is a great place for people on fixed incomes. I found a lot of retirees from California when I lived there. Where exactly are you considering buying? By the way, there is some great fishing and hunting in So. Mo., too. Wild game was not unique on our table ... my sons, daughter and husband all hunted. I dressed it out, butchered and wrapped it all for freezing.
I am soliciting advice from the objective thinkers here.
#32. To: Critter (#29)
you got your baby girl from behind that door. ;)
#33. To: Phant2000 (#31)
Actually, I already have a lot, 16 acres, in Gentryville Garage, MO. I may still do something with that someday, but I think I am going to take this place in NY with 34 acres for now, if they accept my offer.
Where exactly are you considering buying?
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#34. To: Critter (#33)
I wish you luck in whatever project you decide to pursue.
I may still do something with that someday, but I think I am going to take this place in NY with 34 acres for now ...
#35. To: Critter (#33)
A significant advantage of the place in NY over the place in MO is you can start getting to know your neighbors. Post-SHTF, your network of neighbors will be one of your most valuable assets.
#36. To: Soren (#35)
hi Soren, how are you?
#37. To: Critter (#33)
if they do, it was meant to be!
but I think I am going to take this place in NY with 34 acres for now, if they accept my offer.
#38. To: christine (#37)
Hi christine! I'm well, thanks for asking. I haven't been by here in quite a while. Stopped by to see if any of the old Market Wrapup crew is still posting here. It's been amazing to see many of the things we discussed 5 or more years ago come to pass. Hope all is well with you.
#39. To: Soren (#38)
Last contact: Stopped by to see if any of the old Market Wrapup crew is still posting here.
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)
#40. To: Phant2000, Critter, 4 (#34)
I wish you luck in whatever project you decide to pursue. Amen. That would be my choice. Grab all that you can. Get to know, and educate, the neighbors.
I may still do something with that someday, but I think I am going to take this place in NY with 34 acres for now ...
Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its idiot.
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