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Title: Union Busting in America
Source: by author
URL Source: [None]
Published: Feb 24, 2011
Author: Stephen Lendman
Post Date: 2011-02-24 05:14:09 by Stephen Lendman
Keywords: None
Views: 389
Comments: 40

Union Busting in America - by Stephen Lendman

It dates from America's 19th century industrial expansion when workers moved away from farms to factories, mines, and other urban environments, with harsh working conditions, low pay, and other exploitive abuses. As a result, labor movements emerged, organizing workers to lobby for better rights and safer conditions, pitting them against corporate bosses yielding nothing without a fight.

During unionism's formative years, workers were terrorized for organizing. In company-owned towns, they were thrown out of homes, beaten, shot, and hanged to leave management empowered.

The 1892 Homestead Steel Works strike culminated in a violent battle between Pinkerton agents and workers. As a result, seven were killed, dozens wounded, and, at the behest of Andrew Carnegie, owner of Carnegie Steel, Governor Robert Pattison sent National Guard troops to evict workers from company homes, make arrests, and help CEO Henry Clay Frick's union busting strategy. It worked, preventing organizing of the Works for the next 40 years.

The Federation of Organized Trades and Labor Unions chose May 1, 1886 as the date for an eight-hour work day to become standard. As the date approached, unions across America prepared to strike. On May 1, national rallies were held, involving up to 500,000 workers.

On May 4, the landmark Haymarket Square riot protested police violence against strikers the previous day. Someone threw a bomb. Police opened fire. Deaths resulted. Seven so-called anarchists were convicted of murder. Four were executed.

Radicalized by the incident, Emma Goldman became a powerful social justice voice through writing, lecturing, being imprisoned for her activism, and finally emigrating to Russia after its revolution, then elsewhere in Europe. After her death, she was buried in Chicago near the graves of the Haymarket radicals she supported.

Led by American Railway Union's Eugene Debs, the 1894 Pullman strike was the first national one, involving 250,000 workers in 27 states and territories. America's entire rail labor force struck, paralyzing the nation's railway system. At the time, The New York Times called it "a struggle between the greatest and most important labor organization and the entire railroad capital."

At issue were unfair labor practices, including long hours, low pay, poor working conditions, and little sympathy from owner George Pullman. On his behalf, President Grover Cleveland sent federal troops. Hundreds of others were given police powers. At the time, unionists were seen threatening US prosperity.

The strike was broken, killing 13, wounding dozens and resulting in Debs' arrest, trial, conviction for violating a court injunction, and imprisonment for six months. Radicalized by the experience, he became America's leading socialist figure when released, later running five times for president, in 1920 while again in prison for opposing US involvement in WW I.

Founded in 1905, the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW or Wobblies) had 100,000 members at its peak in the 1920s. Led by Big Bill Haywood, Eugene Debs, and others, it was committed to help workers against abusive management practices. It's motto was "an injury to one is an injury to all." It's goal was revolutionary, saying in its Constitution:

"The working class and the employing class have nothing in common. There can be no peace so long as hunger and want are found among millions of the working people. (The) struggle must go on until the workers of the world organize as a class, take possession of the means of production, abolish the (unfair) wage system, and live in harmony with the Earth....It is the mission of the working class to do away with capitalism (for) a new society within the shell of the old."

As a result, corporate bosses and Washington sought to crush it. In 1917, the Wilson administration used the Espionage and Sedition Act to raid and disrupt union meetings across the country, arresting hundreds on the grounds that they hindered the war effort by opposing it. In 1918, they were tried, convicted and given long sentences, except Haywood. Released on bail after conviction, he fled to Russia where he remained.

From 1918 - 21, the infamous Palmer Raids ravaged the union further during the time of the first Red Scare, effectively busting it, though it's still around, a shadow of its former self. Visit its web site at iww.org to follow their latest activities, including comments on class warfare in Wisconsin.

In the early 20th century, Colorado labor wars raged, notably pitting mine bosses, National Guard troops, and strikebreakers against workers. In his People's History of the United States, Howard Zinn wrote poignantly about the 1913-14 Ludlow, CO coal strike and subsequent massacre, killing 75 or more strikers, strikebreakers, and bystanders for defying what he called "fuedal kingdoms run by (coal barons that) made the laws," imposed curfews, and ran their operations more like despots than businessmen.

Other Union Busting Efforts

During the 1902 coal strike, 14 miners were killed and 22 injured in Pana, IL. In 1904, a Dunnville, CO battle between state militia forces and workers left six dead, others injured, 15 arrested, and 79 exiled to Kansas.

During the 1909 New York shirtwaist strike, female garment workers were arrested, a judge telling them, "You are on strike against God." In March 1911, a fire at New York's Triangle Shirtwaist factory killed 46, mostly women and young girls working in sweatshop conditions. They still exist today. Earlier articles discussed them, accessed through the following links:

http://sjlendman.blogspot.com/2009/03/modern-slavery-in-america.html

http://sjlendman.blogspot.com/2010/02/global-sweatshop-wage-slavery.html

In 1912, the IWW-led Lawrence, MA Bread and Roses textile strike was largely successful. It was credited with inventing the moving picket line, a tactic to avoid arrest for loitering. Also in 1912, National Guard forces were used against striking West Virginia coal miners. In July that year, striking Brotherhood of Timber Workers were confronted by armed Galloway Lumber Company thugs, resulting in four deaths and dozens wounded, the incident called the Grabow Riot.

In 1913, New Orleans police shot three maritime workers, striking against the United Fruit Company. One died.

In 1914, Butte, Montana militia crushed striking Western Federation of Miners workers.

On January 19, 1915, famed labor leader Joe Hill was arrested in Salt Lake City, UT on bogus murder charges. Nonetheless, he was executed 21 months later. Before his death, he wrote Bill Haywood saying, "Don't mourn - organize!" The same day, Roosevelt, NJ factory guards shot 20 rioting strikers.

In 1916, Everett (WA) Mills strikebreakers attacked and beat strikers. Police stood back without intervening, claiming the incident took place on federal land. Three days later, 22 unionists were arrested for speaking out. In October that year, IWW members were beaten, whipped, kicked and impaled for their activism. At their subsequent November 5 meeting, seven were shot and killed, 50 others wounded, and unknown numbers were unaccounted for.

Numerous other incidents at that time involved shootings, hangings, beatings, and arrests, unionists viciously attacked to disrupt them.

In 1919, nearly four million workers struck, including against against steel and coal companies. Management retaliated. The year's Great Steel Strike failed. Company owners called workers dangerous radicals threatening America. Federal and National Guard troops again were used, resulting in violence, deaths, injuries and arrests. From 1919 - 23, numerous coal strikes also occurred, government again siding with management.

In 1920, the Battle of Matewan resulted in nine deaths, later sparking an armed rebellion of 10,000 West Virginia coal miners at the Battle of Blair Mountain, the largest insurrection since the Civil War against which army troops intervened.

In 1922, the Herrin, IL coal strike massacre left 21 dead. In 1927, picketing coal miners were massacred in the company town of Serene, CO. In 1929, National Guard troops and armed thugs destroyed the National Textile Workers Union (NTWU) office during the Loray Mill Strike.

During the 1937 Little Steel strike, Youngstown Steel and Tube and Republic Steel employed hundreds of armed police who fired on strikers trying to prevent scabs from entering factories. On May 30, things exploded when Chicago police joined them, opening fire on picketing strikers and their families, killing 10 and injuring hundreds.

Earlier in the 1930s, unionists were convicted of criminal syndicalism. Vigilantes beat Harlan County, KY strikers. Police killed striking Ford Dearborn, MI strikers. Four cotton workers were killed on strike. National Guard forces killed two Toledo, OH Electric Auto-Lite strikers, wounding hundreds. Police attacked and fired on striking Minneapolis Teamsters. Other deaths, beatings and arrests occurred throughout the decade, even after passage of the landmark 1935 Wagner Act.

In 1932, the Hoover administration warred on WW I veterans, demanding promised bonuses. General Douglas MacArthur-led government troops burned their camps for marching peacefully for their rights.

In 1962, Jack Kennedy's Executive Order 10988 established limited collective bargaining rights for federal employees. It spawned state and local efforts to expand theirs.

In 1968, National Guard troops were used against Memphis, TN sanitation worker strikers, days before Martin Luther King's assassination, there to support them. Violence followed, including beatings. A young unarmed boy was killed emerging from a housing development.

Union busting post-WW II was mostly nonviolent, but just as determined to deny workers their rights after passage of the 1947 Taft-Hartley Act. It greatly weakened union clout, allowing stiff penalties for noncompliance.

It enacted "unfair labor practices," prohibiting jurisdictional strikes (relating to worker job assignments), secondary boycotts (against companies doing business with others being struck), wildcat strikes, sit- downs, slow-downs, mass-picketing against scabs, closed shops (in which workers must join unions), union contributions to federal political campaigns (now freely given candidates), and more while legalizing employer interventions to prevent unionizing drives.

Serious erosion of union power to bargain collectively followed. As a result, employers can illegally fire union sympathizers and receive only minor wrist slap fines after years of expensive litigation to prove wrongdoing. Moreover, they can fire workers for any reason like incompetence or none at all. In addition, strikes are further neutralized because companies can hire replacements or threaten to move offshore.

Since the 1980s especially, earlier hard won rights significantly eroded after Reagan busted PATCO strikers, discussed in a previous article, accessed through the following link:

http://sjlendman.blogspot.com/2011/02/wisconsin-ground-zero-to-save-public.html

From then to now, it's been all downhill to where private and public workers face losing all rights unless mass activism resists. Despite Wisconsin heroics, national actions are sorely lacking, largely because union bosses collude with management and political leaders against their own rank and file.

"Confessions of a Union Buster"

In his book, Martin Jay Levitt describes from experience what happens, saying:

"Union busting is a field populated by bullies and built on deceit. A campaign against a union is an assault on individuals and a war on the truth. As such, it is war without honor. The only way to bust a union is to lie, distort, manipulate, threaten, and always (one way or another) attack. The law does not (intervene)....rather, it serves to suggest maneuvers and define strategies," pitting media-supported companies, government, and corrupted union bosses against rank and file unionists, on their own, their grit, resourcefulness, and staying power alone for strategy.

Levitt also calls the National Labor Relations (Wagner) Act a "union buster's best friend" because "its complexity....presents endless possibilities for delays, roadblocks, and maneuvers that can undermine a union's efforts and frustrate" members. The union buster's key tactic is delay ahead of elections, buying time to organize "counter organizing drives," targeting members and immediate supervisors to fear, not embrace, unionism as allied with their interests.

Efforts are also made to discredit unionists by "routinely pr(ying) into (their) police records, personnel files, credit histories, medical records, and family lives in search of a weakness" to use against them. When no dirt's found, targeted workers are called gay or accused of cheating on their wives. It works in blue collar towns.

Other techniques involve "sackings," even though illegal under NLRA's Section 8(a)(3), prohibiting firing workers for urging others to join unions. Nonetheless, union busters know that reinstatement procedures take time, often years. The idea is to weaken support prior to elections, focusing heavily on winning over supervisor support, who, in turn, can influence rank and file members.

Learn more on Levitt's web site, accessed through the following link:

http://www.unionbusting101.com/index.html

He also provides "Top Secret" information of what can and can't be said on the issues, accessed through the link below:

http://www.unionbusting101.com/Top_Secret.pdf

He calls his purpose an effort "to inform and educate WORKERS and Union Organizers about what to expect from management in regards to Union Busting Terrorist Tactics used during union campaigns by management and their consultants in their attempt to defeat their employees from forming a union....or destroy (ones) that already exist."

Nonetheless, the Wagner Act, though measurably weakened, lets workers unionize. Specifically, its Section 7 states:

"Employees shall have the right to self-organization, to form, join, or assist labor organizations, to bargain collectively through representatives of their own choosing, and to engage in other concerted activities for the purpose of collective bargaining or other mutual aid and protection."

Levitt also provides information on union busting propaganda, tactics used by Walmart and other companies, labor union resources, for-profit union busters, and more.

Economic Policy Institute (EPI) and American Rights at Work Education Fund on Thwarting Union Organizing

On May 20, 2009, they cited a new five-year study, showing employer anti-union behavior intensifying. Cornell University Professor Kate Bronfenbrenner (a noted labor expert) said employers are more than twice as likely to use 10 or more tactics to thwart organizing efforts.

Titled "No Holds Barred: The Intensification of Employer Opposition to Organizing," it focused on coercive and punitive tactics against organizing efforts, including threats, intimidation, interrogation, harassment, surveillance, retaliation and firings to thwart it. As a result, most workers without unions who want them at best find their wish indefinitely postponed.

Even when workers successfully unionize, 52% have no contract a year later, and for 37% it's two years. Moreover, besides intensive union busting tactics, employers are less likely to offer incentives such as unscheduled raises, positive personnel changes, bribes, special favors, social events, promises of improvement, and employee involvement programs.

In addition, private sector campaigns differ markedly from public sector ones, at least during the 1999 - 2003 period she studied. Recent events in Wisconsin, Ohio and other states show this very much is changing. Though most states let workers freely organize, current tactics show they're subjected to similar private sector tactics to strip away their rights and leave them powerless.

As a result, unionists face increasingly hard times because companies, government, and corrupted union bosses use today's economic environment against them, pleading hard times reasons for cutting back when, if fact, they're exploiting current conditions to reward corporate favorites at their expense.

Joe Hill was right saying "organize" to fight back. So is imprisoned human rights lawyer Lynne Stewart, saying: "Organize - Agitate, Agitate, Agitate, Love Struggle!"

Stephen Lendman lives in Chicago and can be reached at lendmanstephen@sbcglobal.net. Also visit his blog site at sjlendman.blogspot.com and listen to cutting-edge discussions with distinguished guests on the Progressive Radio News Hour on the Progressive Radio Network Thursdays at 10AM US Central time and Saturdays and Sundays at noon. All programs are archived for easy listening.

http://www.progressiveradionetwork.com/the-progressive-news-hour/.

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#1. To: penguinite (#0)

Is there a way that posts, started by someone on bozo, won't show on the screen anywhere? And neither will any replies to that post?

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Niggers ruin everything.

PSUSA  posted on  2011-02-24   7:50:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: PSUSA (#1)

I think the closest thing to that is the 'Ignore Thread' function that appears at the bottom of the posted article.

That's been coming in handy a lot lately.

Godfrey Smith: Mike, I wouldn't worry. Prosperity is just around the corner.
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)

Esso  posted on  2011-02-24   8:06:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Esso (#2)

Yeah, but it still pollutes my pretty screen, on the right column...

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Niggers ruin everything.

PSUSA  posted on  2011-02-24   8:09:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Esso (#2)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." - Ben Franklin

Eric Stratton  posted on  2011-02-24   9:00:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: PSUSA (#3)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." - Ben Franklin

Eric Stratton  posted on  2011-02-24   9:01:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Stephen Lendman (#0)

First they came and tried to bust the union in Wisconsin and undermine working class right to negotiate fair wages. Since I wasn't a member of that union I didn't care. Next they did the same in Indiana and since I wasn't a member I looked the other way. Next they did this in all states and I didn't care because I wasn't a member of any public employee union. Next they began busting the Iron workers unions, the carpenter's unions, the electrical worker unions and I just ignored it because I am not a union member.

After all the unions were broken and people's rights to negotiate fair wages and safe working conditions were abolished everwhere in the US the government opened the borders and allowed illegals to enter the US to take jobs and much lower wages than were paid to Americans for these jobs prior to the union busting and this included non-union professional jobs.

And now that they are working to try to cut my pay by 75% by using these methods I look around and there is nobody left to defend my position.

bush_is_a_moonie  posted on  2011-02-24   9:15:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Esso, PSUSA, Eric, 4, *The hook-nosed Jew* (#2)

I just gave him his own ping list. Anyone joining the list can be a co- moderator, so use it as needed!

Jethro Tull  posted on  2011-02-24   9:17:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: bush_is_a_moonie, *The hook-nosed Jew* (#6)

socialistpartyoforlando.f...ers.com/sp_emma_debs.html

Lendman writes warmly about Emma Goldman. Read about her in the link above if she is unfamiliar to you. That was as far as I took his bilge.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2011-02-24   9:23:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Jethro Tull (#8)

I dont' care amout Emma Goldman. The point of my post is that because those in power can manipulate us to turn on each other we in the working classes are the ones who pay the price. Remember if a person is worth 10 million dollars and those in the working class are worth an avg of $50,000 the rich don't have to make more money to become richer. They can accomplish the same thing by reducing the average wealth/income of the working classes. That is the same as if they made more money off our backs.

bush_is_a_moonie  posted on  2011-02-24   9:27:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#6)

First they came and tried to bust the union in Wisconsin and undermine working class right to negotiate fair wages.

You got it backwards, moonie. First they came and got the states to pay for public employee benefits that eventually became so expensive it broke the bank of each state.

Then the governors of each state decided it was time to man up and find a way to avoid taxing you sufficiently to allow paying those exhorbitant benefits so that YOUR pay won't be cut by taxing you at the rate of 75% of everything you earn!!!

To correct one of your statements, it is the elected officials in Congress that have opened the borders and allowed illegals to enter the US to take jobs, to apply for entitlements, to send their kids to our schools, to get on our welfare rolls, etc. This is done for VOTES, nothing more, nothing less.

All those union members you see or hear complaining are being led by their Union hierarchy so that they can continue to give money to politicians that are friendly to unions. If they don't have members, they can't contribute. If they can't contribute, they can't demand anything in return.

Lastly, why would you "look around" for someone "to defend" your position when, in fact, you have all the tools necessary to do that for yourself?

WAKE UP!!! Its all a freaking vicious circle designed to ruin this country.

Phant2000  posted on  2011-02-24   9:37:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: bush_is_a_moonie, JT, 4 (#6)

And now that they are working to try to cut my pay by 75% by using these methods I look around and there is nobody left to defend my position.

That's not quite true.

1) Do you want those responsible for this mess to defend your position? After all they have done, do you still trust them enough to do that?

or

2) Do you want like-minded folk on your side to help you defend your position?

It's your position to defend. Don't depend on the kike vermin or their enablers, or their useful idiots, because they'll eat you alive.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Niggers ruin everything.

PSUSA  posted on  2011-02-24   9:40:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: PSUSA (#11)

It's your position to defend. Don't depend on the kike vermin or their enablers, or their useful idiots, because they'll eat you alive.

You put it better than I did. Good post.

Phant2000  posted on  2011-02-24   9:54:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Jethro Tull (#7)

I just gave him his own ping list.

Sometimes I wonder if totally ignoring Lendman's threads would finally send this communist/socialist/marxist into the shadows.

His last few threads look to me like they are designed to get as much opposition out of us as possible. Who is "grading" us? Who sent him here, when it is clear we are a conservative site and he is a progressive? What are his intentions? What is to be gained from the current activity? Do our remarks end up on the screens of government puppets who are keeping the evildoers aware of just who might be a deterrant to their ultimate goal(s)?

I could care less if MY remarks end up on the end of buckwheat's nose and he sends out the JBTs to take me to my "resting place", but I am 73 years old. The younger people participating on this site are needed. I would hate to think my activity on Lendman's threads caused them serious problems in the future.

Phant2000  posted on  2011-02-24   10:01:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Phant2000, Jethro Tull (#13)

His last few threads look to me like they are designed to get as much opposition out of us as possible. Who is "grading" us? Who sent him here, when it is clear we are a conservative site and he is a progressive? What are his intentions? What is to be gained from the current activity? Do our remarks end up on the screens of government puppets who are keeping the evildoers aware of just who might be a deterrant to their ultimate goal(s)?

Just pump the bilge....the discharge hose flows directly to the nest.

"The person who agrees with you 80 percent of the time is a friend and an ally — not a 20 percent traitor" - Ronald Reagan

Flintlock  posted on  2011-02-24   10:14:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: PSUSA (#1)

there's no way to filter out replies to someone you have on bozo.

christine  posted on  2011-02-24   10:42:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Flintlock (#14)

the discharge hose flows directly to the nest.

really...have you looked at that place lately?

christine  posted on  2011-02-24   10:43:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Phant2000 (#10)

All those union members you see or hear complaining are being led by their Union hierarchy so that they can continue to give money to politicians that are friendly to unions. If they don't have members, they can't contribute. If they can't contribute, they can't demand anything in return.

right on!

christine  posted on  2011-02-24   10:46:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: christine, Jethro Tull (#16)

really...have you looked at that place lately?

Christine

JT referred to Stevie's socialist rambling as "bilge", I'm merely suggesting that 4um pump this waste overboard......show Stevie & his leftist bilge the door.

I have sleeper acounts there, it's so dead, there's no muck to stirr

"The person who agrees with you 80 percent of the time is a friend and an ally — not a 20 percent traitor" - Ronald Reagan

Flintlock  posted on  2011-02-24   10:53:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Flintlock (#14)

Just pump the bilge ...

MUHAHAHAHAHAHA

Phant2000  posted on  2011-02-24   10:56:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: bush_is_a_moonie (#9)

The point of my post is that because those in power can manipulate us to turn on each other we in the working classes are the ones who pay the price.

To ignore the history of unions is to miss the nose on Lendman's face. And I wouldn't for a second associate the word "worker" with the rabble that is ruining our school children. Please, use their more correct term, paid propagandists for Jewry.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2011-02-24   11:14:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Phant2000, all (#13)

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=81f_1298310260&c=1

www.learn-usa.com/transformation_process/acf001.htm

This is what forums can expect. This is what I am beginning to see here and elsewhere.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2011-02-24   11:19:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: All (#21)

www.liveleak.com/view?i=81f_1298310260&c=1

here

Jethro Tull  posted on  2011-02-24   11:21:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Phant2000 (#13)

I could care less if MY remarks end up on the end of buckwheat's nose and he sends out the JBTs to take me to my "resting place", but I am 73 years old. The younger people participating on this site are needed. I would hate to think my activity on Lendman's threads caused them serious problems in the future.

When we reach the day that we are too timid as a people to discuss honestly the people and policies that are ruining America, is the day it's all over.

To those lurkers who have not yet lent your voice to our effort, stay in the shadows at your own peril.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2011-02-24   11:24:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Phant2000 (#10)

I don't have any problem busting unions as long as they are public employees. In fact, 90% of all the government in the U.S. should be closed down.

i'll bet you could get rid of the police completely, arm everyone, and crime would drop 90% once the Darwin Award winners were eradicated.

"If ever this vast country is brought under a single government, it will be one of the most extensive corruption, indifferent and incapable of a wholesome care over so wide a spread of surface. This will not be borne, and you will have to choose between reform and revolution. If I know the spirit of this country, the one or the other is inevitable." - Thomas Jefferson

Turtle  posted on  2011-02-24   11:34:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Jethro Tull (#21)

This is what I am beginning to see here and elsewhere.

I have read the contents of those links before. It is sickening to think that our country has lowered its standards to use such crap for personal gain.

Maybe someday we will all be sufficiently learned on using the internet that we can hack all the URLs of such orgs that use like tactics. I would love to make that my life's work from here until the day I die.

Phant2000  posted on  2011-02-24   11:37:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Turtle (#24)

I don't have any problem busting unions as long as they are public employees.

I agree with you totally. Public workers should not be able to tie up the country as they are doing now, albeit its the hierarchy that is creating and maintaining such.

Phant2000  posted on  2011-02-24   11:39:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Turtle, 4 (#24)

I don't have any problem busting unions as long as they are public employees. In fact, 90% of all the government in the U.S. should be closed down.

I'll bet you could get rid of the police completely, arm everyone, and crime would drop 90% once the Darwin Award winners were eradicated.

A huge Amen! to those sentiments/observations.

Somewhere in Kenya, a village is missing its idiot.

Lod  posted on  2011-02-24   12:01:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: christine, Phant2000, All (#17)

All those union members you see or hear complaining are being led by their Union hierarchy so that they can continue to give money to politicians that are friendly to unions. If they don't have members, they can't contribute. If they can't contribute, they can't demand anything in return.

right on!

I don't necessary support teachers having a union, but this is the start of the attack on "ALL" unions. Shame on those of you who want to give total control h back to the greedy corporations and let them enslave their workers and treat them any way they want.

We might as well throw in the towel and change those stars and stripes for the hammer and sickle. The anti-unionists are getting closer than you realize to being communists in favor of a corporate sponsored and owned dictatorship. Countries that a have dictator have only one party and since we all claim that we have two wings of our one party we might as well have a dictator. Either you are for worker's rights or you support corporate America and their bought and paid filty swarmy pokliticians.

I know what will happen once the unions are dismantled. Pay, benefits, and safety will disappear eventually even in private industry. A good example is in Texas. The state minimunm wage is $3.50 an hour, less than half the federal wage rate. All you texans ought to be fighting for a repeal of the federal minimum minimum wage and got back to your very pricy state minimum wage. You might be able to buy a gallon of gas right now with that $3.50 an hour, but by summer it just might be $5 a gallon.

Now tell me what we are fixing here? What's next? Scrooge would be proud!

LACUMO  posted on  2011-02-24   13:40:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: LACUMO (#28)

I don't necessary support teachers having a union, but this is the start of the attack on "ALL" unions

Correct...

They do not have a workers "union".

They are professionals hiding under the term labor union to hi jack more money.

Fire the lot of them.

Cynicom  posted on  2011-02-24   13:47:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: christine, Jethro Tull, Phant2000 (#17)

They bused in 'the rent a horde' mob of union thugs. At last count 150 out of state buses are here.

Just got that by email from a friend in Madison WI.

The unions need to GO!

"The person who agrees with you 80 percent of the time is a friend and an ally — not a 20 percent traitor" - Ronald Reagan

Flintlock  posted on  2011-02-24   14:12:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: LACUMO (#28)

Shame on those of you who want to give total control h back to the greedy corporations and let them enslave their workers and treat them any way they want.

LAC:

Read that statement again, please. I have NEVER said, nor implied, that I wanted total control given to the greedy corporations. However, I will say that the greedy public employee union officials/negotiators have been not only been controlling the use of our tax dollars, but everyone that pays taxes.

LAC, have you not paid attention to the disparity between the salaries of those in private enterprise versus those in public service jobs who perform like work? The public service employees are paid more than those in private enterprise ... and not just a little bit more, but a lot.

The problem with ALL whom are making their demands upon the taxpayer is that they think there will always be funds to meet those demands. Well, guess what? Its time to pay the piper. The taxpayers aren't working, have to live on savings or what unemployment they get and taxes aren't being collected to the degree they were previously.

Furthermore, a big percentage of those in private enterprise have been living on the same salaries they were making five plus years ago. They haven't been given raises because the corporation/business entity they work for isn't making the profits they previously enjoyed. Matter of fact, how is it that those working in private enterprise accept compromises have to be made just to keep a job sometimes, but those in public service refuse to acknowledge the very people they demand pay for their salary and benefits increases are receiving less income all the time?

When you complain about the $3.50 a gallon for gas (closer to $4 here in CA), remember that high cost would have been a lot lower had we made use of our own energy sources in this country and not depended on foreign countries to supply us.

Make yourself heard where it will do the most good, LAC.

Phant2000  posted on  2011-02-24   14:33:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Jethro Tull, all (#21) (Edited)

If measurable opposition persists, advocates are told, get the local ministers on board. Take steps to neutralize, by whatever means necessary, the opposition. In some places, opponents have been harassed, both at home and on the job, personal property has been damaged and vandalized, people have lost their jobs. Anyone who does not go along with the restructuring of our society is susceptible to the totalitarian tactics of those promoting education reform – whether it be parents, teachers, principals, superintendents or board members.

This is why I am extremely suspicious of anyone that claims to want "unity". They never, and I fucking mean NEVER, tell who they want me to unify with.

What they really want is to people to unify behind them, or most likely, behind their hero.

It's easy to destroy a unified target. Cut off the head, the snake dies. Or if the head is working with the enemy, the body still dies.

There is no need in calling for unity. We already have unity. And not being unified (ie under a leaders thumb) does not mean that we can't cooperate with like-minded people.

IMO a leaderless resistance makes the Delphi technique ineffective because there are no leaders for them to influence.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Niggers ruin everything.

PSUSA  posted on  2011-02-24   14:47:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: PSUSA (#32)

IMO a leaderless resistance makes the Delphi technique ineffective because there are no leaders for them to influence.

Leaderless resistance scares the crap out of the elite. Yes on groups. I don't do them.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2011-02-24   14:55:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Jethro Tull (#33)

Leaderless resistance scares the crap out of the elite.

IMO that is the one thing that keeps them up at night, in a cold sweat.

I flirted with the militias. I thank providence that it went nowhere.

.


Click for Privacy and Preparedness files

Niggers ruin everything.

PSUSA  posted on  2011-02-24   15:12:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Phant2000 (#31)

Shame on those of you who want

Notice I said those of you who want to see the unions destroyed. If you feel I was accusing you personally, only you know where you stand,

LACUMO  posted on  2011-02-24   17:26:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Jethro Tull (#20)

You're missing the point. Do you think if the pay for any group of people, private or public is reduced that any % of that difference will go into your pocket? Hell no it won't. It will go into the pockets of the Rockefellers, Morgans etc. The issue is if the rich and the politicans who all work for them can reduce wages the money will go into their pockets and those whose wages are cut or whose jobs are lost will begin applying for other higher paying jobs and will be willing to take less than the current person in that position. It's the law of supply and demand.

Do I like union leaders - hell no... they are in bed with the politicians but allowing this bunch of criminals to cut wages for anybody hurts the working class and benefits them. That is why they play one against the other. One of the biggest hoaxes people have bought into is that govt (state, federal) earn more than those in private industry. That may true for the top 1% but most positions in govt earn less than comparable positions in private industry. My wife has worked for the state of AZ for 36 years and if she were doing the same job in private industry her salary would be at least 250% higher than it is now.

They feed us crap and use it to get working class Americans to turn on one another. And the teachers are restricted from teaching facts and truth to our kids by those who run the education system. It's the same as every other industry that the govt has control of. Tell the people only what we want them to hear and lie to them about everything else.

bush_is_a_moonie  posted on  2011-02-24   17:41:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: LACUMO (#35)

Notice I said those of you who want to see the unions destroyed. If you feel I was accusing you personally, only you know where you stand,

I noticed you addressed your comments To: christine, Phant2000, All!

I am disappointed that you would attempt to transfer the blame of your accusation to me.

Phant2000  posted on  2011-02-24   18:00:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Phant2000 (#31)

The problem with ALL whom are making their demands upon the taxpayer is that they think there will always be funds to meet those demands

Doesn't this apply to the politicians also? They are supposed to work for us. Instead, they are bought and paid for by corporate America. Not only that. they raise their own pay when they feel like it and those are taxpayer dollars too. Nobody seems to care how much the pols steal from the taxpayers. Not only do they getthe big salaries, but they also get money to run satelite offices and most of it doesn't have to be accounted for.

The money and benefits of most union workers hasn't hardly kept up with inflation over the last thirty or so years and many unions have given back benefits and pay and the greedy employers keep demanding they give back more.

The starting wage in this country is down right criminal. We are paid third world wages right here in America. For instance, the Mexicans make about $2.50 an hour on average and actually are better paid in relation to American workers who start out with a minimum wage which is $7.50 per hour. Right now we are paying an average of $3.50 a gallon for gasoline. The Mexicans are paying pennies a gallon. The price differential of other commodities is similar. No damn wonder our youth don't want to work.They want the same things we did when we were young and are being denied because of the cost of everything. There is no American Dream any more so they have no incentive. They also know as soon as they enter the workplace, they will be enslaved just like the rest of us.

Those who can't see where we're at in this country are pitiful at best. Those that go along with what has happened to this country have bought into the corporate/criminal politicians agenda. The youth are dumbed down in our public schools, the rest of us are getting so damn old we can't remember, or don't wnt to.

LACUMO  posted on  2011-02-24   18:11:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: LACUMO (#38)

Doesn't this apply to the politicians also? They are supposed to work for us. Instead, they are bought and paid for by corporate America.

It sure does apply to the politicians, but they don't work for us; they work for themselves. Corporate America lines their pockets for their votes and the taxpayers provide the money for all the entitlement programs, etc., that get them the votes of those who know no better.

You aren't the only one that doesn't like the congress raising their salaries (in the dead of night most of the time). I have been making noise for YEARS, but few others bother to challenge their authority to constantly give themselves raises while we do on less each year.

I agree with most everything you complain of. However, there are not enough voters in this country who see it thst way or want to get off their ass and DO something.

We were given a perfect opportunity to vote every one of the greedy, self- serving criminals in both houses out. We did more in the House than in the Senate, but not enough. We needed to rid ourselves of every sitting member of congress that was up for re-election, no matter which party. That would have sent the message they need to have received.

As it is now, buckwheat dances around the issues he knows will cost him the presidency in 2012 and does his dirty work behind the scenes. He feels he needs another term to complete his orders from the evildoers, i.e., change this country from a republic to a communistic sovereignty on the way to ONE WORLD ORDER.

God forbid, but that's how it is unless and until we revolt.

Phant2000  posted on  2011-02-24   18:26:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Phant2000, All (#37)

All those union members you see or hear complaining are being led by their Union hierarchy so that they can continue to give money to politicians that are friendly to unions. If they don't have members, they can't contribute. If they can't contribute, they can't demand anything in return.

right on!

That is because you wrote the words above except christine's "right on." That is the way comments are answered when you click on reply.Since you spoke out against unions please accept the shoe; if it fits. I notice you used a blanketting of unions in general. I also notice you stated unions give money to politicians. Corporations never give any money to politicians. Right? Just in case you don't know it, the courts gave the green light to corporations so they can give them as much bribe money as they want to give to pol;iticians campaigns. Did you ever wonder why they give to both candidates running for the same office?

If you don't want anybody replying to what you write on here, you can respectfully request at the bottom of your words that you don't want anybody answering you or questioning what you write.

Somebody please step in here and help Phant2000 understand how this forum format works. I don't want to upset her any more than I have.

LACUMO  posted on  2011-02-24   18:35:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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