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Title: Kevin Gutzman: Freedom vs the Courts
Source: Tenth Amendment Center
URL Source: http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com ... gutzman-freedom-vs-the-courts/
Published: Nov 24, 2009
Author: Kevin Gutzman, interviewed by TAC Founde
Post Date: 2011-03-03 10:33:59 by GreyLmist
Keywords: Constitution, 14th Amendment, Incorporation Doctrine, ruse
Views: 102
Comments: 6

Click here for 20 min. MP3 Podcast: Kevin Gutzman: Freedom vs the Courts

Kevin Gutzman, best-selling author and expert on American Constitutional history, discusses the 14th Amendment and the Incorporation Doctrine, how the doctrine has given us government by judiciary instead of government by representation, the Due Process clause, Substantive Protections vs. Due Procedure, the original intent of the 14th Amendment, how the courts changed that meaning over the ensuing five decades, the Bill of Rights as a limitation on the power of Congress, how the incorporation doctrine has turned the principles of federalism on its head, representative government vs. government by “experts,” Privileges or Immunities and The Slaughter-House Cases, rights of State citizenship, how James Madison warned that those in government would tend to use and expand power, some of the greatest violations of the Constitution under the doctrine of incorporation, why federalism and decentralization is a better system to secure liberty, and more.

Mentioned in this Show

KevinGutzman.com

The Politically Incorrect Guide to the Constitution

Who Killed the Constitution

Virginia’s American Revolution

Slaughter-House Cases

Lawrence v Texas

[Linked at the site]


Poster Comment:

Summary of Slaughter-House Cases:

As one resident put it, New Orleans in the mid-19th century was plagued by "intestines and portions of putrefied animal matter lodged [around the drinking pipes]" coming from local slaughterhouses whenever the tide from the Mississippi river was low.[1] A mile and a half upstream from the city, a thousand butchers gutted over 300,000 animals per year.[2] Animal entrails (known as offal), dung, blood, and urine were a part of New Orleans' drinking water. Offal bred cholera to the general population. Between 1832 and 1869, the city of New Orleans suffered eleven cholera outbreaks.[3]

In response, a New Orleans grand jury recommended that the slaughterhouses be moved south, but since many of the slaughterhouses were outside city limits, the grand jury's recommendations carried no weight. The city then appealed to the state legislature. As a result, in 1869, the Louisiana legislature passed "An Act to Protect the Health of the City of New Orleans, to Locate the Stock Landings and Slaughter Houses, and to incorporate the Crescent City Livestock Landing and Slaughter-House Company," a law that allowed the city of New Orleans to create a corporation that centralized all slaughterhouse operations in the city.[4] At the time, New York, San Francisco, Boston, Milwaukee, and Philadelphia all had similar provisions to confine butchers to areas that kept offal from contaminating the water supply.[5]

The cholera-epidemics causing butchers claimed:

This statute is denounced [by the butchers] not only as creating a monopoly and conferring odious and exclusive privileges upon a small number of persons at the expense of the great body of the community of New Orleans, but it is asserted that it deprives a large and meritorious class of citizens -- the whole of the butchers of the city -- of the right to exercise their trade, the business to which they have been trained and on which they depend for the support of themselves and their families, and that the unrestricted exercise of the business of butchering is necessary to the daily subsistence of the population of the city.

Resolution by the Court:

In a five-four decision issued on April 14, 1873, by Justice Samuel Freeman Miller, the Court held to a narrow interpretation of the amendment and ruled that it did not restrict the police powers of the state [My note: to so move to protect its citizens from cholera]. The Court held that the Fourteenth Amendment's Privileges or Immunities clause affected only rights of United States citizenship and not state citizenship.

Furthermore:

It is quite clear, then, that there is a citizenship of the United States, and a citizenship of a state, which are distinct from each other, and which depend upon different characteristics or circumstances in the individual.

We think this distinction and its explicit recognition in this Amendment of great weight in this argument, because the next paragraph of this same section, which is the one mainly relied on by the plaintiffs in error, speaks only of privileges and immunities of citizens of the United States, and does not speak of those of citizens of the several states. The argument, however, in favor of the plaintiffs, rests wholly on the assumption that the citizenship is the same and the privileges and immunities guaranteed by the clause are the same.”

In short, this was a Pro-States' Rights ruling in recognition of their power and their citizenry's right to enact protective measures for themselves against reckless and ruthless businesses. That has been whacked all out of proportion by "the doctrines of men" and women who seemingly have much invested in their inventive Incorporation Indoctrination marketings and campaigns to drive people to distraction with all of that like this article commenter:

"Honestly thou with regard to incorporation and the generally poorly written 14th amendment, we would probably be better off just removing the 14th amendment, as it does nothing beneficial anymore and has only been the source of of countless problems which we would be spending all of our time fixing probably hopelessly given all the abuses. outside of the 17th and 16th amendment the 14th is probably the most destructive amendment."

I disagree that it should be removed and see it as one of the more beneficial. There is more than one reason why it might be especially under vehement attack, as is the 2nd. However, this comment does call for careful consideration:

There is No "Fourteenth Amendment"!

by David Lawrence

U.S. News & World Report, September 27, 1957

"A MISTAKEN BELIEF -- that there is a valid article in the Constitution known as the "Fourteenth Amendment" -- is responsible for the Supreme Court decision of 1954 and the ensuing controversy over desegregation in the public schools of America. No such amendment was ever legally ratified by three fourths of the States of the Union as required by the Constitution itself. The so-called "Fourteenth Amendment" was dubiously proclaimed by the Secretary of State on July 20, 1868. The President shared that doubt. There were 37 States in the Union at the time, so ratification by at least 28 was necessary to make the amendment an integral part of the Constitution. Actually, only 21 States legally ratified it. So it failed of ratification."

http://www.supremelaw.org/authors/lawrence/no14th.htm

Ref:

The 14th Amendment

14th Amendment Ratification History, or alleged lack thereof: This amendment was specifically rejected by Texas on Oct 27, 1866; by Georgia on Nov 6, 1866; by North Carolina on Dec 14, 1866; by South Carolina on Dec 20, 1866; by Kentucky on Jan 8, 1867; by Virginia on Jan 9, 1867; by Louisiana on Feb 6, 1867; by Delaware on Feb 8, 1867; and by Maryland on Mar 23, 1867. New Jersey's ratification was rescinded on Mar 24, 1868; Ohio rescinded its ratification on Jan 15, 1868 and ratified again on Mar 13, 2003.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 4.

#1. To: GreyLmist (#0) (Edited)

"A MISTAKEN BELIEF -- that there is a valid article in the Constitution known as the "Fourteenth Amendment"

State Constitutions as Contracts (see LS Spooner Essay "No Treason" http://lysanderspooner.org/node/44 & Joel Tiffany's Treatise on Government free @ books.google.com/)

Illinois "personal & territorial jurisdiction claim" expressed as a short TIME LINE:

1. Political status: Citizen of the United States or American National(Article 1 etc.) & Citizens of a State or State National (Article 4, Sec. 2, Clause 1). The territorial jurisdiction claim found in the first Constitution of 1818 and Enabling Acts (I have all original docs received from State & National Archives) is as follows:

Beginning at the mouth of the Wabash river, thence up the same, and with the line of Indiana to the northwest corner of said state; then east with the line of the same state, to the middle of Lake Michigan; thence north, along the middle of said lake, to north latitude 42 degrees and 30 minutes; thence west to the middle of the Mississippi river, and thence down, along the middle of that river, to its confluence with the Ohio river; and thence up the latter river, along its northwestern shore, to the beginning.

2. In the year of 1845 the State Legislator did pass into State law a "Federal Territorial Jurisdiction" definition as a "subversive act" for the purpose of destroying the principals of "Dual Sovereignty", Separation of Powers Doctrine and the Tenth Amendment.

“The Legislator of Illinois first introduced a Federal Territorial jurisdiction definition found in the Statutes on Statutes in 1845. Prior to this time, no such Federal Territorial definition existed.” – Mr. Kim Efford (ILLINOIS Law Archivist ((2010))

GENERAL PROVISIONS (5 ILCS 70/) Statute on Statutes. (5 ILCS 70/0.01) (from Ch. 1, par. 1000) Sec. 0.01. Short title.

This Act may be cited as the Statute on Statutes. (Source: P.A. 86-4; 86-451.) (5 ILCS 70/1.14) (from Ch. 1, par. 1015)

Sec. 1.14. "State," when applied to different parts of the United States, may be construed to include the District of Columbia and the several territories, and the words "United States" may be construed to include the said district and territories. (Source: Laws 1945, p. 1717.)

3. In 1870 a New Illinois Constitution was introduced incorporating the purported 14th Amendment (all other states as well). This Constitution introduced a very NEW type of "citizen" or U.S. citizen, Resident rather than Inhabitant, Voter rather than Elector, Incorporated rights (given by men or Legislators/Judges rather than Natural or Unalienable rights (God given). STATE CITIZENSHIP was redacted or rubbed out, no longer recognized by 14th Amendment Governments. The International Banking Community had Won the War fought against Jefferson & Jackson and now are Free To Print Money from Nothing, enslave this Nation with debt.

Today these New 14th Amendment States only appear to have "Amended Constitutions" as the "personal & territorial" jurisdiction are now Federal rather than in agreement with the Principals of Dual Sovereignty, Separation of Powers doctrine as per the 10th. RADICAL CHANGE OF GOVERNMENT = LINCOLN'S RADICAL REPUBLICANS former Whigs/Corporate Fascists.

The remedy as alluded to in DC v Heller & McDonald as expressed by Justice Thomas: We are a nation governed by Consent, read LS Spooner & Joel Tiffany's Treatise on Government (special attention to chapter on State government).

Rights and Law are "not self effectuating", political status (14th or State Citizen) must be "invoked" by DECLARATION (same as Founding Fathers w/ the Tyrant King George) or by Notice to Gov. Officials to REBUT absurd presumptions of 14th status (presumption of commercial activity rather than the exercise or enjoyment of Natural Rights).

Yours in Observing Political Status is a Voluntary Condition,

Patrick

Article 4, Sec. 3, Clause 2: Federal property and the Territorial Clause

The Congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State. ”

The Territorial or the Property Clause[8] gives the United States Congress the final power over every territory of the United States. However, a major issue early in the 20th century was whether the whole Constitution applied to the territories called insular areas by Congress.

In a series of opinions by the Supreme Court of the United States, referred to as the Insular Cases, the court ruled that territories belonged to, but were not part of the United States. Therefore, under the Territorial clause Congress had the power to determine which parts of the Constitution applied to the territories. Although scholars look to the real meaning of "the Territory belonging to the United States" as meaning the geographic area belonging to the United States as the word "territory" actually means and "other Property" as territories"

PatrickHenry  posted on  2011-03-03   13:48:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: PatrickHenry (#1)

Could you please edit your post to shorten the url that's probably causing the screen to overflow so that it's more readable. TIA.

GreyLmist  posted on  2011-03-03   14:07:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: GreyLmist (#2)

Did this work?

PatrickHenry  posted on  2011-03-03   14:41:42 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: PatrickHenry (#3) (Edited)

Did this work?

Yes, thanks.

I'm not seeing whatever it is that you wanted to point out there. Illinois has had 4 different Constitutions [Edit to add: the last in 1970] and the Insular Cases are very old. The most controversial thing I see with those cases -- which, I'm not sure but maybe have some bearing on the occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, for instance -- is this:

http://www.answers.com/topic/insular-cases:

"So long as the United States military governed there, exports could be taxed under the war powers of Congress (Dooley v. United States, 1901). Once the special powers of the military ended, however, any imposition of tariffs seemed to violate the Constitution's requirement that duties be “uniform throughout the United States”

GreyLmist  posted on  2011-03-05   2:55:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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