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Editorial
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Title: So that's what they mean by the “War on Poverty”
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... hats_what_they_mean_by_the.php
Published: Mar 18, 2011
Author: PZ Myers
Post Date: 2011-03-22 17:25:22 by CadetD
Keywords: cashless, society
Views: 1989
Comments: 91

Minnesota is leading the way. Our Rethuglicans have figured out how to end poverty: by making it illegal to have money if you're poor? Wait, that makes no sense.

Minnesota Republicans are pushing legislation that would make it a crime for people on public assistance to have more $20 in cash in their pockets any given month.

Lest you think our most contemptible lawmakers have no heart at all, consider that this is the generous version of their earlier plan.

This represents a change from their initial proposal, which banned them from having any money at all.

I'm not sure what they're thinking. If they're so poor, the only way they could have any money is if they stole it from a rich guy? Or something? Maybe they're just setting up a perfect Catch 22: now the police can roust someone who looks poor, and if they've got no money, send them to jail for vagrancy; if they've got more than $20, arrest them for possession of illegal currency.

Some people don't believe me. Here's the link to the proposed legislation. They want to give all benefits via a debit card so they can restrict and monitor purchases. And if this is their sole source of income, that means they're only allowed a cash allowance of $20/month. Control, control, control.

Section 1. [256.9870] ELECTRONIC BENEFIT TRANSFER DEBIT CARD. Subdivision 1. Electronic benefit transfer or EBT debit card. (a) Electronic benefit transfer (EBT) debit cardholders in the general assistance program and the Minnesota supplemental aid program under chapter 256D and programs under chapter 256J are prohibited from withdrawing cash from an automatic teller machine or receiving cash from vendors with the EBT debit card. The EBT debit card may only be used as a debit card. (b) Beginning July 1, 2011, cash benefits for programs listed under paragraph (a) must be issued on a separate EBT card with the head of household's name printed on the card. The card must also state that "It is unlawful to use this card to purchase tobacco products or alcoholic beverages." This card must be issued within 30 calendar days of an eligibility determination. During the initial 30 calendar days of eligibility, a recipient may have cash benefits issued on an EBT card without the recipient's name printed on the card. This card may be the same card on which food support is issued and does not need to meet the requirements of this section. (c) Notwithstanding paragraph (a), EBT cardholders may opt to have up to $20 per month accessible via automatic teller machine or receive up to $20 cash back from a vendor.

Click for Full Text!

Poster Comment:

http://wonkette.com/440932/minnesota-republicans-to-outlaw-poor-people-having-money; Link to legislation: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bin/bldbill.php?bill=H0171.1.html&session=ls87

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#2. To: CadetD (#0)

I get behind welfare recipients at the grocery store, their basket is filled with cuts of meat that I can't afford. They have candy, soft drinks, ice cream to the top of the basket. They pull out their "Lone Star" card and bingo!, it's on me. Then they set their cigarettes, beer and wine up and pull out cash to pay for that. All the time they are chatting on an IPhone that costs at least $300.00. I guess I don't really have a problem with what's being proposed. Welfare recipients should ONLY have access to healthy food, nothing else, and if they can afford beer, wine, cigarettes, etc, they can afford their own food.

Luke The Spook  posted on  2011-03-22   18:04:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Welfare recipients should ONLY have access to healthy food, nothing else, and if they can afford beer, wine, cigarettes, etc, they can afford their own food.

Then they should ALSO prohibit ALL food and drink which contains Aspartame, MSG, High Fructose Corn Syrup, genetically modified corn and soy, artificial colors, artifical flavors, and preservatives.

If you want them to eat healthy, then at least eliminate the REAL poisons which are present on grocery store shelves.

Oh and BTW, MANY working families collect foodstamps, so don't think they're all "welfare recipients".

BTW, do you feel as strongly about this for oil companies who get billions of dollars in subsidies (ie. corporate welfare) and tax breaks each and every year? Should we restrict them to only making a $20 profit over cost each month?

FormerLurker  posted on  2011-03-22   20:00:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Oh and BTW, MANY working families collect foodstamps, so don't think they're all "welfare recipients".

Welfare, state sponsored welfare, should be eliminated. Period. That's the job of the churches, not the government. The churches are close to the population. They know who needs assistance, and who's looking for a free ride.

I do missionary work in Central America. Those people don't have welfare! They feed their families by working, whatever, where ever, whenever, however. Real work, HARD work. By comparison "Merikan welfare recipients are rich beyond belief!

Corporate welfare? There is no "To big to fail". Let the business compete. They don't make a profit, they go bankrupt.

Luke The Spook  posted on  2011-03-22   20:46:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Welfare, state sponsored welfare, should be eliminated. Period.

If ALL assisstance were cut off, what do people do, rob banks and mug people in order to feed their families? I'm not talking about the career welfare cases, I'm talking about those who have been laid off and can't find meaningful work that can provide enough income to support themselves and their families.

If it were eliminated altogether and the economic situation doesn't improve immediately, forcing people to starve and live in the street, there'd be widespread chaos, turmoil, and anarchy.

FormerLurker  posted on  2011-03-22   21:00:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

If it were eliminated altogether and the economic situation doesn't improve immediately, forcing people to starve and live in the street, there'd be widespread chaos, turmoil, and anarchy.

Exactly. And the really sick thing is employers are intentionally avoiding the long term unemployed for whatever strange reasoning.

Based on the numbers that are not fudged the overall unemployment rate is somewhere around 22%. In Oregon, where I live, it is closer to 25%. There are not even many minimum wage jobs, and places that would previously willing to hire someone with respiration, like Blockbuster, now are demanding experience for a minimum wage counter job.

Original_Intent  posted on  2011-03-22   21:12:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Something for you to consider. This nation wasn't built on "having a job", it was built on creating a job, doing a job, not working for some multinational corporation. I have faith in the people in this country who want to work, not the parasites.

Blockbuster "demands"! Phucque'em!

Luke The Spook  posted on  2011-03-22   21:46:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Something for you to consider. This nation wasn't built on "having a job", it was built on creating a job, doing a job, not working for some multinational corporation. I have faith in the people in this country who want to work, not the parasites.

I do not disagree. However, how many of the small business licenses, taxes, restrictions, and zoning laws existed while this country was building?

No, it is not impossible for someone to start a business, but it takes a lot of knowledge of the bureaucracy and stupid laws to keep one alive.

I don't like welfare, I don't like forced hand-outs. I also don't like seeing people grubbing in garbage cans and children starving on the side of the road.

The laws we have now have been set up to FORCE people to work for someone else. To work for those multinationals. Except that now, like a sick game of musical chairs, the jobs have all been shipped out of the country - intentionally to set up this situation. A knee jerk reaction is not a solution.

I don't have an easy solution, politically, that is going to solve it. Ideally taxes would be cut to a tenth of what they now are and most of the stupid counterproductive rules and regulations done away with.

Realistically, do you honestly see a way to do that quickly so that we don't wind up with hundreds of thousands of children starving to death?

Original_Intent  posted on  2011-03-22   22:00:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Realistically, do you honestly see a way to do that quickly so that we don't wind up with hundreds of thousands of children starving to death?

What we have now doesn't work. It can't be sustained, economically or morally, and the planet can't sustain it. So. we suck it up and take the pain. It won't be easy, however, the longer it goes on, the worse it ultimately will be. Those who have the will to survive, will survive. They will find a way. Creative, imaginative humans will survive and prosper.

I really enjoyed Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged". Maybe it was prophetic. Perhaps that's the answer.

Luke The Spook  posted on  2011-03-22   22:24:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I really enjoyed Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged".

A great book that goes over the heads of the leftist peebrains

Flintlock  posted on  2011-03-22   23:15:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Damn Straight! Ayn Rand - "All for Me and Me for Me". Unidimensional, limited vision, and a great saleswoman. While Capitalism has its virtues, and is much superior to socialism, it is not without flaw. And the type of tunnel vision of Ayn Rand appeals to a certain class of shallow thinker who does not look beyond their own personal advantage.

Original_Intent  posted on  2011-03-22   23:26:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Ayn Rand - "All for Me and Me for Me".

Not at all! Ayn Rand admired competence above all else. The competent individual is usually able to take care of themselves and their dependents. They are not a burden on society, and she believed that such individuals should not be burdened by those who are incompetent and can't or won't take care of themselves. She particularly despised people who got into responsible positions because they knew someone in the bureaucracy and then screwed everything up because they didn't have a clue.

She believed there would be no need for welfare if people were taking care of their own problems and their own burdens. She called this The Virtue of Selfishness.

angK  posted on  2011-03-22   23:54:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

She called this The Virtue of Selfishness.

The problem is that there is no virtue in selfishness. I admire competence as well, but the reality is that not all people are of equal ability. In a sane society the more able end up in the higher positions and the less able are still accorded a survivable situation. That is in an ideal world. We do not have an ideal world and people do not live in isolation from one another. In looking at the current scene I deal in realities not theoretical constructs. In reality we have a rotten and corrupt political system, and a population which is largely apathetic. That is the reality. We have an economic system that is increasingly controlled by a very few for their own selfish benefit. So, much for the virtue of selfishness.

Original_Intent  posted on  2011-03-23   0:09:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

In reality we have a rotten and corrupt political system, and a population which is largely apathetic. That is the reality. We have an economic system that is increasingly controlled by a very few for their own selfish benefit.

Again, the exact society Rand warned about in Shrugged.

Flintlock  posted on  2011-03-23   0:14:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

In reality we have a rotten and corrupt political system, and a population which is largely apathetic. That is the reality. We have an economic system that is increasingly controlled by a very few for their own selfish benefit.

Again, the exact society Rand warned about in Shrugged.

I'm sure she saw what was coming. It was becoming apparent to the very perceptive even then.

I guess my main point is not that I disagree with getting people off of the public teat but that in the current sick morass it is increasingly being made difficult, intentionally, for anyone to survive independent of Der State. My concern is a purely humanitarian one and is predicated only on the current scene i.e., I don't want to see mass starvation because there is no way for people to make a living.

Being an entrepreneur is great, and starting a business is fine. I believe people should make their own way, but in the current mess cutting the net for the bottom while not tackling first the 800 pound gorilla is taking an easy and defenseless target - kind of like throwing puppies off a cliff.

Original_Intent  posted on  2011-03-23   0:25:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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