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Title: So that's what they mean by the “War on Poverty”
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... hats_what_they_mean_by_the.php
Published: Mar 18, 2011
Author: PZ Myers
Post Date: 2011-03-22 17:25:22 by CadetD
Keywords: cashless, society
Views: 2135
Comments: 91

Minnesota is leading the way. Our Rethuglicans have figured out how to end poverty: by making it illegal to have money if you're poor? Wait, that makes no sense.

Minnesota Republicans are pushing legislation that would make it a crime for people on public assistance to have more $20 in cash in their pockets any given month.

Lest you think our most contemptible lawmakers have no heart at all, consider that this is the generous version of their earlier plan.

This represents a change from their initial proposal, which banned them from having any money at all.

I'm not sure what they're thinking. If they're so poor, the only way they could have any money is if they stole it from a rich guy? Or something? Maybe they're just setting up a perfect Catch 22: now the police can roust someone who looks poor, and if they've got no money, send them to jail for vagrancy; if they've got more than $20, arrest them for possession of illegal currency.

Some people don't believe me. Here's the link to the proposed legislation. They want to give all benefits via a debit card so they can restrict and monitor purchases. And if this is their sole source of income, that means they're only allowed a cash allowance of $20/month. Control, control, control.

Section 1. [256.9870] ELECTRONIC BENEFIT TRANSFER DEBIT CARD. Subdivision 1. Electronic benefit transfer or EBT debit card. (a) Electronic benefit transfer (EBT) debit cardholders in the general assistance program and the Minnesota supplemental aid program under chapter 256D and programs under chapter 256J are prohibited from withdrawing cash from an automatic teller machine or receiving cash from vendors with the EBT debit card. The EBT debit card may only be used as a debit card. (b) Beginning July 1, 2011, cash benefits for programs listed under paragraph (a) must be issued on a separate EBT card with the head of household's name printed on the card. The card must also state that "It is unlawful to use this card to purchase tobacco products or alcoholic beverages." This card must be issued within 30 calendar days of an eligibility determination. During the initial 30 calendar days of eligibility, a recipient may have cash benefits issued on an EBT card without the recipient's name printed on the card. This card may be the same card on which food support is issued and does not need to meet the requirements of this section. (c) Notwithstanding paragraph (a), EBT cardholders may opt to have up to $20 per month accessible via automatic teller machine or receive up to $20 cash back from a vendor.

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Poster Comment:

http://wonkette.com/440932/minnesota-republicans-to-outlaw-poor-people-having-money; Link to legislation: https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bin/bldbill.php?bill=H0171.1.html&session=ls87

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#2. To: CadetD (#0)

I get behind welfare recipients at the grocery store, their basket is filled with cuts of meat that I can't afford. They have candy, soft drinks, ice cream to the top of the basket. They pull out their "Lone Star" card and bingo!, it's on me. Then they set their cigarettes, beer and wine up and pull out cash to pay for that. All the time they are chatting on an IPhone that costs at least $300.00. I guess I don't really have a problem with what's being proposed. Welfare recipients should ONLY have access to healthy food, nothing else, and if they can afford beer, wine, cigarettes, etc, they can afford their own food.

Luke The Spook  posted on  2011-03-22   18:04:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Welfare recipients should ONLY have access to healthy food, nothing else, and if they can afford beer, wine, cigarettes, etc, they can afford their own food.

Then they should ALSO prohibit ALL food and drink which contains Aspartame, MSG, High Fructose Corn Syrup, genetically modified corn and soy, artificial colors, artifical flavors, and preservatives.

If you want them to eat healthy, then at least eliminate the REAL poisons which are present on grocery store shelves.

Oh and BTW, MANY working families collect foodstamps, so don't think they're all "welfare recipients".

BTW, do you feel as strongly about this for oil companies who get billions of dollars in subsidies (ie. corporate welfare) and tax breaks each and every year? Should we restrict them to only making a $20 profit over cost each month?

FormerLurker  posted on  2011-03-22   20:00:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Oh and BTW, MANY working families collect foodstamps, so don't think they're all "welfare recipients".

Welfare, state sponsored welfare, should be eliminated. Period. That's the job of the churches, not the government. The churches are close to the population. They know who needs assistance, and who's looking for a free ride.

I do missionary work in Central America. Those people don't have welfare! They feed their families by working, whatever, where ever, whenever, however. Real work, HARD work. By comparison "Merikan welfare recipients are rich beyond belief!

Corporate welfare? There is no "To big to fail". Let the business compete. They don't make a profit, they go bankrupt.

Luke The Spook  posted on  2011-03-22   20:46:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Welfare, state sponsored welfare, should be eliminated. Period.

If ALL assisstance were cut off, what do people do, rob banks and mug people in order to feed their families? I'm not talking about the career welfare cases, I'm talking about those who have been laid off and can't find meaningful work that can provide enough income to support themselves and their families.

If it were eliminated altogether and the economic situation doesn't improve immediately, forcing people to starve and live in the street, there'd be widespread chaos, turmoil, and anarchy.

FormerLurker  posted on  2011-03-22   21:00:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

If it were eliminated altogether and the economic situation doesn't improve immediately, forcing people to starve and live in the street, there'd be widespread chaos, turmoil, and anarchy.

Exactly. And the really sick thing is employers are intentionally avoiding the long term unemployed for whatever strange reasoning.

Based on the numbers that are not fudged the overall unemployment rate is somewhere around 22%. In Oregon, where I live, it is closer to 25%. There are not even many minimum wage jobs, and places that would previously willing to hire someone with respiration, like Blockbuster, now are demanding experience for a minimum wage counter job.

Original_Intent  posted on  2011-03-22   21:12:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Something for you to consider. This nation wasn't built on "having a job", it was built on creating a job, doing a job, not working for some multinational corporation. I have faith in the people in this country who want to work, not the parasites.

Blockbuster "demands"! Phucque'em!

Luke The Spook  posted on  2011-03-22   21:46:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Something for you to consider. This nation wasn't built on "having a job", it was built on creating a job, doing a job, not working for some multinational corporation. I have faith in the people in this country who want to work, not the parasites.

I do not disagree. However, how many of the small business licenses, taxes, restrictions, and zoning laws existed while this country was building?

No, it is not impossible for someone to start a business, but it takes a lot of knowledge of the bureaucracy and stupid laws to keep one alive.

I don't like welfare, I don't like forced hand-outs. I also don't like seeing people grubbing in garbage cans and children starving on the side of the road.

The laws we have now have been set up to FORCE people to work for someone else. To work for those multinationals. Except that now, like a sick game of musical chairs, the jobs have all been shipped out of the country - intentionally to set up this situation. A knee jerk reaction is not a solution.

I don't have an easy solution, politically, that is going to solve it. Ideally taxes would be cut to a tenth of what they now are and most of the stupid counterproductive rules and regulations done away with.

Realistically, do you honestly see a way to do that quickly so that we don't wind up with hundreds of thousands of children starving to death?

Original_Intent  posted on  2011-03-22   22:00:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Realistically, do you honestly see a way to do that quickly so that we don't wind up with hundreds of thousands of children starving to death?

What we have now doesn't work. It can't be sustained, economically or morally, and the planet can't sustain it. So. we suck it up and take the pain. It won't be easy, however, the longer it goes on, the worse it ultimately will be. Those who have the will to survive, will survive. They will find a way. Creative, imaginative humans will survive and prosper.

I really enjoyed Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged". Maybe it was prophetic. Perhaps that's the answer.

Luke The Spook  posted on  2011-03-22   22:24:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I really enjoyed Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged".

A great book that goes over the heads of the leftist peebrains

Flintlock  posted on  2011-03-22   23:15:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Damn Straight! Ayn Rand - "All for Me and Me for Me". Unidimensional, limited vision, and a great saleswoman. While Capitalism has its virtues, and is much superior to socialism, it is not without flaw. And the type of tunnel vision of Ayn Rand appeals to a certain class of shallow thinker who does not look beyond their own personal advantage.

Original_Intent  posted on  2011-03-22   23:26:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Ayn Rand appeals to a certain class of shallow thinker who does not look beyond their own personal advantage.

Rand would call that a looters point of view,(and not to be patronizing) but I know you're smarter than that.

I'm pretty sure you've read the book, right? That's all you got out of it?

Flintlock  posted on  2011-03-22   23:33:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

My problem with Ayn Rand, to ease off on the sarcasm, is that her viewpoint is sound from the point of view of the individual in isolation from the rest of humanity. The problem is that "no man, or woman, is an island". While I don't like welfare programs I am a pragmatist and I would like to think not without humanitarian impulses. My preference would be for a system of private charity such as we had at one time.

However, the governmental structure, and economic oppression which has been installed and systematized by the Banksters and Psychiatrists has made that impossible - in the short term. The Randian viewpoint in practical strict application would result in the kind of society that Britain had through the 1800's. Hobbesian, privilege and plenty for the well connected and well heeled and a Hobbesian existence for everyone else - nasty, brutish, and short.

I don't like socialism because it is rightly categorized as parasitic - where one segment of society subsists on the work of others. The problem we face currently is that we have a system which has been rigged so that it is becoming increasingly difficult for an individual to start a small business of their own. And the IRS was caught targeting small business for their audit shakedowns. In Oregon you even now need a license from the state to cut lawns and do yard work. With an unemployment rate approaching 1 in 4 it is an unfortunate reality that under the current contrived situation if there was not some form of food program there would be people dying of starvation amidst wealth.

Original_Intent  posted on  2011-03-23   0:01:31 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The Randian viewpoint in practical strict application would result in the kind of society that Britain had through the 1800's.

In Henery VIII´s day about a hundred families owned over 70% of England, and they aimed to keep it that way by use of "legitimate violence".

This is where the AR´s superfical romanticisim will get you.

It is a comic book, just slightly more sophisticated than Jughead and Archie.

Sorry guys.

I like it too - when I was seventeen.

BTY - I am considered wealthy by most national standards, and I can identify with being saddened by the decisions of the poor, etc, but unless you want a society of Hank Paulsons and friends raping YOU AND YOUR FAMLIES, consider the lessons of economic.

Edward Gibbons might be a fair start.

I can assure he would easily recognize AR writing for the self centered, juvanile clap trap that it is.

tom007  posted on  2011-03-23   19:19:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

A couple of the flaws is that it is first an egocentric worldview that presumes divine isolation from the needs and wants of others is possible.

It also presumes that everyone who accumulates wealth is "good" by virtue of accumulating wealth. The means by which wealth is accumulated is given slipshod treatment at best.

I lean toward the libertarian end of the spectrum, but I am a realist. The reality of human behavior has to be taken into account. Not everyone who accumulates wealth and position has a high regard for their fellow man. Witness the Boosch Fambly and good ol' Barry Sewertoro.

Original_Intent  posted on  2011-03-23   22:23:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Witness the Boosch Fambly

Jr got rich off emminate domain (sp) of having his political cronys grab land for pinnies on the dollar for Texas Rangers ball team stadium, and these KOOKS on the right think he is some kind of self made hero, ala Ayn Rand.

Put a double dose of cynide in my Kool Aid, please, and charge it to my BAC credit card at 29% interest. No wonder the pols and Wall Street has a grand ole time trucking the citizens - its so easy. I am sick of the smucks dragging us all down to serfdom.

tom007  posted on  2011-03-23   23:02:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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