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Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: Constitutional help wanted
Source: self
URL Source: [None]
Published: Mar 31, 2011
Author: me
Post Date: 2011-03-31 02:13:26 by titorite
Keywords: None
Views: 455
Comments: 32

I am having trouble understanding a few parts of the constitution and the laws of today.

Specifically , taxation,the 16th amendment and the supreme court ruling of 1895 Pollock v. Farmers’ Loan and Trust Co.

Seriously , as a look into this, I find some severely fucked up shit.

Section 9 of article 2 states

"No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken"

Followed by

"No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State."

Now as I read this, it seems clear that both income tax and many sales taxes are void.

Income tax and sales tax being a direct tax and that is to say nothing about things the states export to one another and get taxed on.

Allegedly the 16th amendment supersedes article to section 9

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

Reading up on all this I came across this website,

http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/jsiegel/Personal/taxes/16thb.htm

"Because an income tax was declared unconstitutional before the adoption of the 16th Amendment in a case called Pollock v. Farmers’ Loan and Trust Co., 157 U.S. 429 (1894), on reh’g 158 U.S. 601 (1895), and because the 16th Amendment conferred no new power of taxation, protestors conclude that the income tax must still be unconstitutional.

This conclusion is false. The short answer is that, while the Supreme Court did hold that the 16th Amendment conferred no new power of taxation, the amendment relieved the pre-existing power to tax incomes from the constitutional requirement of apportionment. Therefore, the previous problem with the income tax was removed and the income tax is now constitutional."

Now my brain starts to boggle because this law website says that the 16th only relieved the pre-existing power to tax incomes from the constitutional requirement of apportionment.

But this power was not pre-existing!

Thats why it was ruled unconstitutional in the first place!!!

Apportionment has little to do with it since we all earn money. Whether we beg on the street or work for a fortune 500 company the government considers any form of money coming into your hands INCOME and theirfor taxable. It applies to every us citizen that earns even one cent from picking it up off the ground.

How is this not considered a direct tax?

Now whats worse is because of the lack of apportionment the common man is taxed more then the rich man or corporation. As we have seen with several companies that are able to pay ZERO income taxes and even in some cases are entitled to tax refunds. This is not because they are exempt , for no US citizen or entity is exempt. The corporations have merely been allowed to retain lawyers to provide "write offs and tax deductions" on such a massive scale that it equals fraud.

The Government currently seems to tax everyone whatever amount they want.

If your poor then you will pay more in taxes and if you are rich you can pay nothing if you jump the the loopholes not afforded to the poor.

AND THEN their is the matter of exported articles being non taxable.

IF a Florida farmer exports oranges to Missouri the oranges are not supposed to be taxable as they came from another state. And yet Missouri taxes them and all foods.

Where this has much more serious implications is with online transactions.

Many folks that use ebay and craigslist are resellers. Buying something here and selling it there. Recently many states are attempting to pass internet transaction taxes. Again this goes against the constitution and what it prohibits regarding state to state exports.

How is all this unconstitutional stuff being held up as valid?

All this IRS BS seems more like a scam to me.

Why the hell aren't we using a flat tax system...

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 30.

#3. To: titorite (#0)

The point of the apportionment restriction was to prevent congress from indirectly encouraging emancipation of slaves via taxes.

I agree, no new power bestowed by the 16th.

"No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State."

That's talking about the fedgov's tax power; it revokes a fed power to tax exports.

A sales tax is not an import or export tax. It's a tax on the sale, not the movement.

Prefrontal Vortex  posted on  2011-03-31   3:20:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Prefrontal Vortex (#3)

I agree, no new power bestowed by the 16th.

I agree as well.

"No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State."

That's talking about the fedgov's tax power; it revokes a fed power to tax exports.

No, I would suggest the context, in addressing problems under the Arts of Confederation where states were aggressively taxing goods crossing state borders, was a prohibition upon the states to prohibit them from taxing goods exported from other states. It was essentially a NAFTA in that day and age designed to promote commerce within the union. Perhaps a USFTA.

Pinguinite  posted on  2011-03-31   3:47:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Pinguinite, all (#6)

I would suggest the context, in addressing problems under the Arts of Confederation where states were aggressively taxing goods crossing state borders, was a prohibition upon the states to prohibit them from taxing goods exported from other states.

I'd second this opinion.

Further, today taxes are imposed upon nearly every transaction conducted whereas previously taxes were imposed on privileges granted by the National government generally to "corporations" and called the Corporations Tax Act. Certain other (commercial) "activities" or events were taxed.

Corporations were allowed to mine and profit from the natural resources that actually belonged to the entire nation but taxed to the credit of everyone for financing the National Government. In this way everyone benefitted from the natural resources of the nation.

The creation of the Federal Reserve Bank changed all of this. Today, taxes are "transaction" fees charged at every instance where a fee can be collected or charged for using the currency or credit created by (and belonging to) the FED RESERVE. This situation has nothing at all to do with the "Constipation" because the FED is a private (commercial) institution operating under private (commercial) law.

The IRS is not a government agency. [See TITLE 31] The IRS is the FED RESERVE'S collection agent. I'd go a step further and say that the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT is a private commercial institution that was substituted without notice and has created an invisible dimension that relies upon private law and "contracts" rather than the Constipation. [The Constitution prohibits the government from infringing upon the people's "RIGHT TO CONTRACT".]

The 1913 FED RESERVE ACT and accompanying Income Tax Act forced the bankruptcy of the "National (Constitutional) Government" around 1932 and FDR called in all of the GOLD as occurs when an entity is bankrupt or insolvent in order to pay creditors.

The Social(ist) Security insurance scheme made indentured servants of all participants including the STATES. Everyone accepting a benefit or the expectation of a benefit is bound to follow the policies associated with the provider of said benefit.

The Socialist Security System calls the funds taken from you a "CONTRIBUTION" - Contributions are voluntary ! (Income Taxes cannot be collected without providing a SOCIAL SECURITY ACCOUNT (membership) NUMBER.)

Actually, almost nothing can be done in the FED RESERVE "ZONE" without a SSN - kind of brings one to consider that the beast made all both rich and poor receive a mark in order to buy or sell !

Almost every nation on Planet Earth has a similar system in place that's supported and operated by a private central bank.

The best thing about this thread is that SOMEONE saw enough contradiction to ask the QUESTION.

The truth is that we have been born into a system secretly changed before we got here. The teaching we received in school was more like propaganda to prevent us from recognizing the Banks had overthrown the government.

Most people (99.9%) do not comprehend the total usurpation of Constitutional Government that the FED RESERVE has accomplished through the CREATION OF PRIVATE CURRENCY (consider it a commodity/product or even a service) upon which there is a user fee called TAXES.

The term that should be used to describe this situation is a bloodless coup d' etat. You, are the enemy when you participate and condone this system.

End the FED'S ability to create the currency and credit in America and a return to Constitutional Government could occur. Until then there is a voluntary slave system in place and if you participate YOU'RE IN !

Everyone that got a stimulus check is a bought and paid for SLAVE.

noone222  posted on  2011-04-01   6:14:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 30.

#31. To: noone222 (#30)

I'm wondering how much income tax the Fed Res corporation owes us.

GreyLmist  posted on  2011-04-01 06:41:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 30.

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