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Title: Trial By Hit Squad: Why Patriotic Americans Should Be Angry That Bin Laden Was Killed
Source:
CounterPunch
URL Source: http://www.counterpunch.org/foley05032011.html
Published: May 3, 2011
Author: BRIAN J. FOLEY
Post Date: 2011-05-05 15:30:09 by PnbC
Keywords: None
Views: 626
Comments: 51
Why Patriotic Americans Should Be Angry That Bin Laden Was Killed By BRIAN J. FOLEY The widespread jubilation at reports of Bin Laden's death is misplaced. Patriotic Americans should be angry. After 9/11, the United States government shredded our Constitution and took away our rights not be be spied on and not to be tortured and not to be assassinated abroad. Our government built Guantanamo. The goal of destroying our laws was, we were told, to usher in an era of "enhanced interrogation" to get information to prevent terrorist attacks. Instead of killing Bin Laden, the U.S. should have captured and interrogated him. Think how much information we could have gained! If alleged low-level members of Al Qaeda are thought to have information important enough for our government to lock them up at Guantanamo for almost 10 years, then wouldn't it have been smart to ask Bin Laden a few questions instead of shooting him? He's been called the "mastermind" of 9/11 and all things Al Qaeda. If anyone thinks our military couldn't have captured Bin Laden alive and that the killing was somehow necessary, well, they lack faith in our troops. U.S. troops are amazingly well-trained -- the world's best -- and can achieve miraculous results. Perhaps revenge is sweet, but when it comes at the expense of gaining actionable intelligence that could help the U.S. win the ongoing, Constitution-shredding War on Terror, it's a feel-good emotion we can't afford. Brian J. Foley is a law professor. Email him at brian_j_foley@yahoo.com Visit his blog at brianjfoley.net/
Trial By Hit Squad
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#11. To: PnbC (#0)
The CIA and Bin Ladin had different definitions of "RETIREMENT" ... The CIA (AKA WHITE HOUSE) has finally announced it.
Democracy: “a government of the masses. Authority derived through mass meetings or any other form of direct expression. Results in mobocracy. Attitude towards property is communistic-negative property rights. Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether it is based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences. It results in demagogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy.” The 1928 Army Field Manual
It is possible they shot some relative of Bin Forgotten who looks like him. It is possible they dug a frozen corpse out of a freezer and shot it. But it is not possible to gain information from someone who has been dead for years.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits. Albert Einstein
The local newspaper here, the Lamar Democrat, had as its headline, "Americans Relieved at Death of bin Laden". I took the opportunity to enlighten some about the fact that this was the second time bin Laden had been killed.
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
interesting. With regard to the likes of ron paul and the author of this article, even though i adhere to many so-called 'conspiracy theories', i do not think that it is necessary for people to promote conspiracy theories in order to promote liberty. One can speak to the general dumbed down public for example, and argue that even if you believe 19 arabs did 9/11, that does not justify murdering a million muslims in iraq and it does not justify the patriot act, nor does it justify groping americans at airports. On another note, i recently read the entire interview of bin laden which was published directly after 9/11/01 in which bin laden denied all involvement in 9/11. this interview is touted much by 911 truthers. yet, one thing that was included by bin laden in that very same interview is the fact that bin laden insisted that alqaida is involved in a jihad. This fact is conveniently omitted by the majority of 911 truthers, who insist that alqaida is CIAda and that bin laden did not support jijad. I like to be consistant. If you one references the bin laden interview as reliable, then how can they at the same time pick and choose what they want to believe from bin laden in that very interview? That is muddled thinking. i will try to find the link to that bin laden interview.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Osama bin Laden's Useful Death By Paul Craig Roberts In a propaganda piece reeking of US Triumphalism, two alleged journalists, Adam Goldman and Chris Brummitt, of the Associated Press or, rather, of the White House Ministry of Truth, write, or copy off a White House or CIA press release that "Osama bin Laden, the terror mastermind killed by Navy SEALs in an intense firefight, was hunted down based on information first gleaned years ago (emphasis added) from detainees at secret CIA prison sites in Eastern Europe, officials disclosed Monday." How many Americans will notice that the first paragraph of the "report" justifies CIA prisons and torture? Without secret prisons and torture "the terror mastermind" would still be running free [sic] it took the CIA years to find him after claiming to have gained information of his whereabouts out of captives in secret prisons. This is the image of the CIA as the new Keystone Cops. It occurs to me that "Navy Seals" being the "heroes" in our little cartoon fantasy was an intentional PsyOp choice too. The SEALs are the most secretive, except for the units we're not supposed to know exist, of all the Special Warfare branches. They also have a carefully constructed aura of special competence and deadliness. The Green Beret's would not have done because although well regarded they don't have the same carefully crafted hollywood image or neat black uniforms. (There's those black uniforms again.) In this carefully scripted cartoon episode all of the iconic images had to be present. The only problem was that all though the inking was good the dialogue didn't fit the graphics which blew up in their face. Even my niece, who is not an avid newswatcher, thought it was bullshit.
Good point. You cannot violate the reality of your audience and have your message accepted. People will reject anything that violates their "reality". It does not mean that their reality is true but it is what is real to them. People, the general public, have been taught, through repetition, and through the use of opinion leaders such as Rush Limbaugh, that certain falsehoods are true. Because of all of the false information that has been hammered into them through repetition and other techniques they believe a lot of things to be true which are in reality false. Nevertheless they have a vision of reality which they believe to be true and is their reality. So, your point is a very good and valid one i.e., taking those fundamental aspects of reality which are shared and using them as a wedge to under cut the mountain of lies. Even the most hardcore invincibly ignorant dildohead still thinks they believe in freedom, honest government and the Constitution. So, pointing out some of the logical conflicts forces them to re-examine their reality and their carefully constructed edifice of false logic and justifications. Do it effectively enough and the tower begins to crumble from its own rotted structure of lies.
You cannot violate the reality of your audience and have your message accepted. People will reject anything that violates their "reality". It does not mean that their reality is true but it is what is real to them. ... So, your point is a very good and valid one i.e., taking those fundamental aspects of reality which are shared and using them as a wedge to under cut the mountain of lies. So, pointing out some of the logical conflicts forces them to re-examine their reality and their carefully constructed edifice of false logic and justifications. Do it effectively enough and the tower begins to crumble from its own rotted structure of lies. You got it! That is a subtlety that few seem to grasp and comprehend. We , if our real goal is to truly reach epople instead of just insulting them for being naive, we need to take baby steps sometimes. That is why i hold 'the long view' in this fight for liberty. that is the tact that i think ron paul holds also. yes, among those at 4um, i can call him a ballless wonder, but among the public, i promote him. LoL. and yes, by taking these small steps of logic, the people can eventually see the truth. i have seen it happen. twice. neocons who were ardent supporters of busha nd the 911 tale, when they were shown the demise of liberty, and realized and acknowledged it, they eventually saw the whole truth. it does happen. and thank you for grasping this point. it seems many are incapable of such nuanced, but common sense, thinking.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Precisely. You cannot provide ten years of education in a 30 second exchange, and if you violate the reality of the person you are speaking to everything you say will be ignored because you have put them in a defensive position and all of the shutters have gone up. Sometimes patience is not just a virtue but the only way to get the product you are looking for i.e., an awakened individual. If you insult someone you lose them immediately because you have attacked them as a person and their shutters go up and into place. So, you have to begin picking around the edges. It is like 911 - for anyone who has been in the military and knows how operations such as NORAD work simply pointing out NORAD's total non-response is an alarm bell. Then pointing out that NO ONE AT NORAD was ever disciplined in ANY WAY for the incompetence forces them to reach the conclusion that NORADs non-response was approved of or even planned. The reason I don't spend a lot of time with the structural failure anomalies of the towers is not because there is not a lot of evidence of anomalies inconsistent with the official fairy tale but because it requires some degree of background to "get it" - most people don't have it and have been fed all manner of lies through the telly and any time a good series of explanations show up then you get a SHILL attack. The PsyOps people have spent a lot of time developing false arguments to confuse and disparage valid evidence so you have to wade through all of that disproving it item by item and most people simply will not follow along, and that is what the SHILLS count on as their real goal is not so much to disprove as it is to make it too confusing to follow. So, before you can discuss the more complex issues you have to first lay the ground work by approaching on a level your audience can accept and chew on. The nice thing about lies is that they fold very rapidly when confronted by the truth, but you first have to prepare your audience to begin looking at and accepting the truth.
It's to the point now where many believe that if it's from the feds, it's false. It saves us a lot of time and energy.
Somewhere in Kenya, a village is still missing its idiot.
It's sort of like with 2 other topics. I take a very simple approach. 1. vomit colored tic-tac-toe grids lining a sunny sky is NOT NORMAL. period. only a moron or retard couldn't see that. (chemtrails) 2. toxic potions made with aborted dead fetuses injected into our arms is not normal,. matter of fact, it is outright blatantly satanic, sick and evil. period. (vaccines). done. anyone who can't grasp those 2 issues by reading those 2 lines, is a hopeless case. ;-)
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
And both abominations are delivered by our loving fedgov.
Somewhere in Kenya, a village is still missing its idiot.
Not merely delivered but forced on at times with court orders and the malefactors protected, with all of the contradictory evidence suppressed or ignored. It is like with anti-depressants. The evidence long ago showed that not only are they ineffective they are over the long run mind destroying. Yes, some people appear in their initial drugged up state to be "better" but that is an illusion as merely medicating someone into submission does not solve the problem. Artisan, are you suggesting that this is a nation of LAWS and not a totalitarian state?
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
if you read my exchange a few posts above with OI you will see that i think it is important for people to question the tactics this govt takes, even if they do not adhere to conspiracy theories. I asked this to military vets a few days ago. since when do soldiers have the discretionary right to commit political assassinations from someone not even armed. That is a valid question to ask, regardless of the trail of abuses which america currently suffers under.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
I know......I was being my usual sarcastic self with my silly question. : )
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
I would agree. People have problems with some of the stands I take on issues but I try to stand on principle. Sometimes standing on principle is hard and distasteful but necessary in my book. A lot of "conservatives" throw rights out the window just as readily as "liberals" when it comes to forcing people to live their chosen life style. Killing OBL, assuming it is real for the moment, is clearly an ends justifying the means which is NEVER right. NEVER! And yes people should be asking themselves if this is proper use of our military and now that precedence has been set, how do we know it won't be used against us?
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
exactly. and to present this question to a good republican would be difficult enough for them, much less if you muddled the issue with conspiracy talk. Lets assume the bullshit story is true. it's still a valid question.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
exactly and enough people are not asking this of their congress critters. and yes I think this is a question every military personnel should be asking themselves. I would be interested in seeing an oath keepers press release on this but I don't think it is going to happen.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
As you can see the U.S. Military is being moved step by bloody step in the direction of IDF/SS standards. And yes it is right to raise your voice against it. Either we aspire to be a decent nation and the beacon of liberty or we do not. There can be no compromise on basic moral and ethical principles without it turning around and biting us. When you turn loose a rabid dog what you have is a rabid dog and not a best friend. This is why I so despise FreepTardia as they seek to justify and laud every encroachment upon fundamental decency and the principles upon which this nation was founded while all the while stridently trying to claim they are "conservatives". They are conservatives in the same sense that the Nazi Brownshirts and Mussolini's Black Shirts were.
ping to post 28. you might find the whole exchange interesting.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
I would be interested in seeing an oath keepers press release on this but I don't think it is going to happen. This is in regards to the announcement that the military killed osama bin laden . the news reported that they took it upon themselves instead of consulting with the president first. do you think this is a relevant issue for oathkeepers to address? i.e., should military have, or do they now have, discretionary power of political assassination on the spot? This is of particular interest to those such as myself who are on the DHS terrorist list. Since i am falsely listed on that list, do troops think it is ok to cap me? By the way, unlike most dissidents who merely suspect they are on the DHS list, i actually have proof in writing that i am indeed on the list. Unfairly, since i have never even been convicted or even charged with any crime, ever. So that fact that our government 'deems' someone as a terrorist or as a threat means nothing. And in my case it is them bearing false witness against me, a violation of God's solemn Commandments. I take this very seriously. This govt is despicable, evil and disgusting.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Negates that whole "under God" part doesn't it?
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." - Ben Franklin
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." - Ben Franklin
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The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." - Ben Franklin
Waco, Ruby Ridge. The precedent has already been set.
__________________________________________________________ Wow, I'm honored.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
True, you are correct there.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
I agree with that, and I'm a conservative (albeit a libertarian one). Most people are so proud of SEAL Team Six now. That SEAL team was called "Cheney’s Secret Assassination Squad" by the liberals during the Bush administration. Now that Obama is giving the orders the left just loves SEAL Team six. lol....... " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
Here's my latest thesis-in-progress: UBL was hiding in a compound that, if you look at it properly, was nothing less than a glorified PRISON meant to protect him from the rest of the world. That's right, the SEAL's broke into a prison just to execute the prisoner-of-honor.
__________________________________________________________ LOL! Gollum bin Laden! Who woulda thunk it?
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits. Albert Einstein
I might agree with that except I think he has been dead for several years.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. He (Gordon Duff) also implies that forcibly removing Obama, a Constitution-hating, on-the-down-low, crackhead Communist, is an attack on America, Mom, and apple pie. I swear these military people are worse than useless. Just look around at the condition of the country and tell me if they have fulfilled their oaths to protect the nation from all enemies foreign and domestic. The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits. Albert Einstein
Mini Bin will take over the dastardly evil doer deeds..... " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
It's Week-End at Binny's........Again!! " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Mini Bin" ROFLMAO!! __________________________________________________________ Yep.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
I would have to agree with that.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
2. That is muddled thinking. 1. None of it can be justified. We are becoming a nation of dumbed down idiots and nonsensical babbling buffoons. 2. It is indeed.
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
2. Even my niece, who is not an avid newswatcher, thought it was bullshit. 1. It is indeed! 2. I totally understand.
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
That is what I've always figured.
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
#12. To: PnbC (#0)
Instead of killing Bin Laden, the U.S. should have captured and interrogated him. Think how much information we could have gained!
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein
#13. To: Artisan (#6)
A thorough examination of these points would lead the clueless to the real truth
#14. To: BTP Holdings (#10)
One of the basic tenets of Islam is that innocent women and children should not be made targets in battle. Recall then, George Washington, dressed in full Masonic regalia, holding up a copy of the Koran and saying, "It is important these people be kept out." This, then, affirms one of our basic liberties. We were founded a Christian nation
#15. To: GreyLmist, PnbC (#7)
The goal of destroying our laws was, we were told, to usher in an era of "enhanced interrogation" to get information to prevent terrorist attacks.
#16. To: Artisan (#14)
interesting. With regard to the likes of ron paul and the author of this article, even though i adhere to many so-called 'conspiracy theories', i do not think that it is necessary for people to promote conspiracy theories in order to promote liberty. One can speak to the general dumbed down public for example, and argue that even if you believe 19 arabs did 9/11, that does not justify murdering a million muslims in iraq and it does not justify the patriot act, nor does it justify groping americans at airports.
#17. To: Original_Intent (#16)
Good point.
#18. To: Artisan (#17)
if our real goal is to truly reach epople instead of just insulting them for being naive, we need to take baby steps sometimes.
#19. To: Original_Intent, 4 (#18)
#20. To: Original_Intent (#18)
So, before you can discuss the more complex issues you have to first lay the ground work by approaching on a level your audience can accept and chew on. The nice thing about lies is that they fold very rapidly when confronted by the truth, but you first have to prepare your audience to begin looking at and accepting the truth
#21. To: Artisan (#20)
#22. To: Lod, Artisan (#21)
And both abominations are delivered by our loving fedgov.
"Nothing has harmed the quality of individual life in modern society more than the misbegotten belief that human suffering is driven by biological and genetic causes and can be rectified by taking drugs or undergoing electroshock therapy. ... If I wanted to ruin someone's life, I would convince the person that that biological psychiatry is right - that relationships mean nothing, that choice is impossible, and that the mechanics of a broken brain reign over our emotions and conduct. If I wanted to impair an individual's capacity to create empathetic, loving relationships, I would prescribe psychiatric drugs, all of which blunt our highest psychological and spiritual functions."
Peter R. Breggin, M.D., in the foreword to "Reality Therapy in Action" by William Glasser, M.D., p. xi
#23. To: Artisan (#6)
Therefore its a valid point to ask why wasnt he detained & questioned.
#24. To: abraxas (#23)
#25. To: Artisan (#24)
i think it is important for people to question the tactics this govt takes,
#26. To: Artisan, abraxas, Original_Intent, Eric Stratton, X-15, wudidiz, Lod (#24)
if you read my exchange a few posts above with OI you will see that i think it is important for people to question the tactics this govt takes, even if they do not adhere to conspiracy theories. I asked this to military vets a few days ago. since when do soldiers have the discretionary right to commit political assassinations from someone not even armed. That is a valid question to ask, regardless of the trail of abuses which america currently suffers under.
#27. To: farmfriend (#26)
#28. To: Artisan (#27)
(Edited)
Lets assume the bullshit story is true. it's still a valid question.
#29. To: farmfriend, Artisan, abraxas, Eric Stratton, X-15, wudidiz, Lod (#26)
#30. To: echo5sierra (#28)
#31. To: farmfriend, ehco5sierra, original_intent, eric stratton (#28)
exactly and enough people are not asking this of their congress critters. and yes I think this is a question every military personnel should be asking themselves.
#32. To: Artisan, ehco5sierra, original_intent, eric stratton (#31)
And in my case it is them bearing false witness against me, a violation of God's solemn Commandments.
#33. To: farmfriend, *Post Of The Day* (#26)
#34. To: farmfriend (#28)
#35. To: Artisan, All (#31)
#36. To: farmfriend (#26)
and now that precedence has been set, how do we know it won't be used against us?
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?"
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#37. To: Eric Stratton (#33)
*Post Of The Day*
#38. To: X-15 (#36)
Waco, Ruby Ridge. The precedent has already been set.
#39. To: farmfriend (#26)
A lot of "conservatives" throw rights out the window just as readily as "liberals" when it comes to forcing people to live their chosen life style. Killing OBL, assuming it is real for the moment, is clearly an ends justifying the means which is NEVER right. NEVER! And yes people should be asking themselves if this is proper use of our military and now that precedence has been set, how do we know it won't be used against us?
The name on the desk in the Oval Office changed, but the policies are the same.
#40. To: farmfriend, X-15, Original_Intent, Eric Stratton, James D, wudidiz (#38)
#41. To: abraxas, farmfriend, X-15, Original_Intent, Eric Stratton, James Deffenbach, wudidiz (#40)
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?"
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#42. To: abraxas (#40)
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein
#43. To: X-15 (#41)
Here's my latest thesis-in-progress: UBL was hiding in a compound that, if you look at it properly, was nothing less than a glorified PRISON meant to protect him from the rest of the world. That's right, the SEAL's broke into a prison just to execute the prisoner-of-honor.
Lord Acton
OsamaBinGoldstein
#44. To: James Deffenbach, X-15 (#43)
#45. To: James Deffenbach (#43)
#46. To: abraxas (#44)
"This man is Jesus,” shouted one man, spilling his Guinness as Barack Obama began his inaugural address. “When will he come to Kenya to save us?"
-Schweizerische Schuetzenzeitung (Swiss Shooting Federation) April, 1941
#47. To: Armadillo (#39)
The name on the desk in the Oval Office changed, but the policies are the same.
#48. To: X-15 (#41)
That's right, the SEAL's broke into a prison just to execute the prisoner-of-honor.
#49. To: Artisan (#14)
1. One can speak to the general dumbed down public for example, and argue that even if you believe 19 arabs did 9/11, that does not justify murdering a million muslims in iraq and it does not justify the patriot act, nor does it justify groping americans at airports.
#50. To: Original_Intent (#15)
1. This is the image of the CIA as the new Keystone Cops.
#51. To: James Deffenbach (#12)
But it is not possible to gain information from someone who has been dead for years.
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