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Title: Heaven is a 'fairy story' says Stephen Hawking
Source:
International Business Times
URL Source: http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/146 ... story-says-stephen-hawking.htm
Published: May 16, 2011
Author: IBT
Post Date: 2011-05-16 22:19:39 by Flintlock
Keywords: Heysus, Fraud, Terrible, Lie
Views: 3433
Comments: 170
Heaven is a 'fairy story' says Stephen Hawking Physicist Stephen Hawking has dismissed religion once again as he deemed heaven a "fairy story" aimed at appeasing those afraid of death. The author of 1988 international best-seller "A Brief History of Time" said in an interview with The Guardian that his views were partly influenced by his battle with motor neuron disease. "I have lived with the prospect of an early death for the last 49 years. I'm not afraid of death, but I'm in no hurry to die. I have so much I want to do first," he told the newspaper in an interview published on Monday. "I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark." Hawking's stance on religion has hardened since the publishing of his seminal work. Previously, he wrote that the laws of physics meant it was simply not necessary to believe that God had intervened in the Big Bang. He wrote in A Brief History ... "If we discover a complete theory, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason -- for then we should know the mind of God." In his 2010 book, "The Grand Design" he said the 1992 discovery of a planet orbiting another star other than the Sun helped deconstruct the view of the father of physics Isaac Newton that the universe could not have arisen out of chaos but was created by God. "That makes the coincidences of our planetary conditions -- the single Sun, the lucky combination of Earth-Sun distance and solar mass, far less remarkable, and far less compelling evidence that the Earth was carefully designed just to please us human beings," he writes. Since 1974, the scientist has worked on marrying the two cornerstones of modern physics -- Albert Einstein's General Theory of Relativity, which concerns gravity and large-scale phenomena, and quantum theory, which covers subatomic particles. Read more: www.ibtimes.com/articles/...hawking.htm#ixzz1MZTleQ88 Poster Comment: IMO, Religion is nothing more than a control system to keep the sheeple on the reservation......Stephen Hawking agrees. Not bad company to have on an idea.
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#75. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#71)
Only if I'm standing in a pile of saltwater soaked scofield bibles.
"The person who agrees with you 80 percent of the time is a friend and an ally — not a 20 percent traitor" - Ronald Reagan
Ah....that's cute. There's nothing that brings more joy to my heart than seeing a red-blooded American kid write a letter to Santa.
"The person who agrees with you 80 percent of the time is a friend and an ally — not a 20 percent traitor" - Ronald Reagan
That is an excellent question to pose. : ) I forgot about Odin......lol.
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
============================================ Most atheists and agnostics chose to be that way because of wholesale hypocrisy. That still does not disprove the validity of a Living Omnipotent, Omniscient, God.
U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY
Like you, my Dad thought religion was simply a control tool. Religion as we know it is what man does to reduce a perpetual / continual creation process larger than his ability to perceive it down to a size his pea brain can handle. Then gurus representing the universe of differing views, idea and opinions use religion to further their own agendas. It's difficult for someone to journey down the path of knowledge without thinking that they've gained some superior knowledge and are somehow entitled to an opinion that either their ego or peer pressure / acceptance causes them to express publicly. (Sometimes these intellects are simply seeking accolades for their brilliance). In the end I'd agree that "religion" has always been used to control people in a million ways. These religions originated in ancient writings that have been handed down to us over time, with our technological knowledge base ever increasing, we have a tendancy to think we know something and I'd opine that even the most brilliant amongst us know nothing much worth knowing. Man is the micro living in the macro and he not only can't see/know the earthly things that exist right in front of his face, he also knows there are other dimensions that exist that he can barely detect but remain a mystery to him while some intelligent force uses these dimensions to operate our solar system and a million others. Very well said and worth repeating, thank you.
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one. "Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." - Ben Franklin
Thanks, I appreciate your kind response.
“But when you want money for people with minds that hate, All I can tell you brother is that you have to wait.” The Beatles, Revolution, 1968
Yeah, what Paul said !!!
“But when you want money for people with minds that hate, All I can tell you brother is that you have to wait.” The Beatles, Revolution, 1968
well put.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
There is a great variety of illogic and unsupported assertions and assumptions to be found in this statement. 1. It assumes without foundation of proof or logic that sentience is purely a function of biology. 2. From that premise we get again, without benefit of proof or logic, the assumption that sentience and awareness lie within the physical brain. 3. Also implied is that matter organizes itself without benefit of sentience into sentience. In other words the universe created itself and in turn life, awareness, and existence are all functions of the random interaction of chemicals which came from some undesignated source, organized themselves without benefit of awareness or intelligence, and wa-la fucking magic - IT LIVES!
you put that so well.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
And I would disagree. If you were to condition your statement as much, most hierarchical, etc., it would have some limited justification. Religion has been used as tool of control and subjugation by SOME individuals. Some of those systems of control have been formalized into Dogma, belief based on authority, and some have been formed as open questions exploring the nature of the reality we experience and its ramifications. Most people in the West make the mistake of associating the concept of Religion with the hierarchical systems of which they are aware. That is a very limited viewpoint and is only representative of SOME not ALL. Religion can really be subdivided into two broad categories (with finer subdivisions therein). They are: 1. Praxis - that is the practical aspects of a system of Religious Doctrine and Worship. 2. Philosophy i.e., the exploration of the spiritual dimension and ultimate nature of reality, the meaning of life, and who and what we are as individuals. Stephen Hawking falls into a subdivision here in that he assumes that the ultimate nature of reality is only that which exists as material matter. The failing point of such a viewpoint is simply the question, "from whence came the matter?"
Thank You.
U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY
Unlike Hawking you fail to grasp the size of the universe. Infinite galaxies, producing infinite planets will produce infinite Earth type planets where life can evolve. Note to thumpers: - There is irrefutable proof that extraterrestrial intelligent beings exist that are vastly superior to us. Did your "god" make them too?
"The person who agrees with you 80 percent of the time is a friend and an ally — not a 20 percent traitor" - Ronald Reagan
This thread is funny. The gist of it is that if it can't be explained, it must be 'god'. It's good that most scientists are atheists. Else we'd remain in the christian-generated dark ages. Perhaps we need another Inquisition to straighten things out for you xtians? You would like that, wouldn't you. Sure you would. Oh wait. That is what the Last Days are for. It will be a bloodbath. Surely you christians will rejoice. You get your death and destruction by proxy: your 'god' will do it all for you. Dont hold your collective breaths. .
ou can't SEE electricity, but have the common sense to know if you immerse yourself into an INVISIBLE STREAM OF 220 VOLTS, things like Heysus will no longer be an issue for you.
#76. To: Turtle (#74)
Please send me a pony and a 44. Magnum for Christmas.
#77. To: Flintlock (#73)
I never said I didn't believe in god, I only question our understanding of him.
#78. To: Flintlock (#75)
Only if I'm standing in a pile of saltwater soaked scofield bibles.
#79. To: noone222, *Post Of The Day* (#66)
In the final analysis it won't be about the beliefs of Hawking or you, Plato or me, Stalin or Pope John Paul II, there is an ultimate truth.
No Planes. Think about it. ................. Guaranteed Penetration (no it's not porn)................. Israelis For 9/11 Truth
#80. To: noone222, wudidiz (#66)
#81. To: wudidiz (#79)
#82. To: Eric Stratton (#80)
12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
#83. To: noone222, *Post Of The Day* (#66)
#84. To: Flintlock (#0)
(Edited)
"I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark."
#85. To: Original_Intent (#84)
#86. To: noone222 (#66)
In the end I'd agree that "religion" has always been used to control people in a million ways. These religions originated in ancient writings that have been handed down to us over time, with our technological knowledge base ever increasing, we have a tendancy to think we know something and I'd opine that even the most brilliant amongst us know nothing much worth knowing.
#87. To: farmfriend (#85)
#88. To: Flintlock, Turtle, abraxas, noone222, wudidiz, farmfriend, James Deffenbach, Original_Intent, Itistoolate, Eric Stratton, christine, Artisan, FormerLurker, buckeroo, angK, (#75)
#89. To: Original_Intent (#84)
3. Also implied is that matter organizes itself without benefit of sentience into sentience. In other words the universe created itself and in turn life, awareness, and existence are all functions of the random interaction of chemicals which came from some undesignated source, organized themselves without benefit of awareness or intelligence, and wa-la fucking magic - IT LIVES!
#90. To: all (#88)
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
“Satanism is about walking against the grain and going against what is considered acceptable by society. Therefore, it is impossible to make it socially acceptable, because when it is accepted by society it is no longer Satanism.” -Unknown
#91. To: Original_Intent, noone222 (#86)
I think the difference is in the semantics. Religion is a faith based dogma which governments HAVE and DO use to control the general populace. Spirituality on the other hand explores the nature of Life, Death, and how the entire Universe relates to Oneself. It is a matter of exploration versus swallowing the accepted dogma either highly recommended or actually forced upon people.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#92. To: PSUSA (#90)
You have no proof of that what so ever. All the ones I know are not only believers but one is a minister.
It's good that most scientists are atheists.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
#93. To: farmfriend (#92)
Has he written any books? Any Nobel Prizes? And how can you be a full time scientist and full time minister at the same time? Or is he part time? And what about all the non Christian scientists that are believers?
one is a minister.
"The person who agrees with you 80 percent of the time is a friend and an ally — not a 20 percent traitor" - Ronald Reagan
#94. To: Flintlock (#93)
Yes.
Has he written any books? Any Nobel Prizes?
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
#95. To: Flintlock (#93)
Isn't burning at the stake SOP? Personally, I think we should eat them. Waste not, want not.
And what about all the non Christian scientists that are believers?
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (
#96. To: Esso (#95)
Yep. They burned them because Jeebus loved them.
Isn't burning at the stake SOP?
"The person who agrees with you 80 percent of the time is a friend and an ally — not a 20 percent traitor" - Ronald Reagan
#97. To: farmfriend (#94)
Well which is it, books or Nobel Prizes, or both?
Yes.
"The person who agrees with you 80 percent of the time is a friend and an ally — not a 20 percent traitor" - Ronald Reagan
#98. To: FormerLurker (#91)
Corrected. No it is not really a matter of semantics. Religion, at its basis, is an attempt to explain life and the universe in which we live. It is an attempt to answer and explain the most fundamental questions of existence. Different religions have arrived at different answers and yet each is a complete system of thought aimed at answering man's most basic wonderings. The province of religion are such questions as: Who am I? What am I? Am I a body, a spirit, or a unity of spirit and body? What is the nature of right and wrong? In the West religion has become confused, and yes it is subject to manipulation, as only being "worship" of some kind, as well as being a subject dictated purely from authority. But that is not the only aspect of religion and it is a subset of a greater subject. Religious Philosophy is the study of those questions of existence which fall within the purview of religion. Some examples would be morality, and ethics that can be taught either from an authoritarian point of view or founded upon reason. Yet both are within the boundaries of what is called religion. The "Golden Rule" is a religious doctrine founded upon reason. Buddhism is a Religion and yet, in its pure form, as taught by Gautama Siddhartha whom we today call THE Buddha (there was more than one) has not one single worship service within its doctrines or teachings. Taoism is as well accorded the status of being A religion and yet it as well contains no form of worship. The Western religions of today have at the root of their dogma, belief bereft of reason and dictated by another, authoritarianism founded upon a materialist viewpoint. Eastern religions tend more toward the spiritual acknowledging "Man" as a spiritual being and not merely a hunk of mobile meat. Each religion, in its own school, seeks to answer all of the fundamental questions of existence. However, it is reason that leads us to choose and to decide which path we wish to follow. I had a long standing debate, never completely settled, with a couple of friends who were pastors. One argued from authority i.e., the laws of the Bible are to be followed without question or analysis. The other, with whom I was more sympatico, took a view closer to my own - that Biblical Laws are founded upon ultimate reason, and that they were laid out so as to be understood. The question which I posed, and still unsettled, is who is the more moral man? The man who follows dogmatically what he perceives to be "the law" without question? Or is it the man who seeks to understand those laws and why they are good and wholesome, who then follows them because reason suggests that they are wise laws? Yes, in many cases, religion has been used as tool to shackle man, but that does not have to be so and it is not always so. Religion in the West has largely become dictatorial and as such based upon authoritarian pronouncements it has departed from reason and become a vehicle for small and venal men to whom the true subjects of religion are a foreign matter.
I think the difference is in the semantics. Religion is a faith based dogma which governments HAVE and DO use to control the general populace.
What is right?
What is wrong?
How do I distinguish between the two?
#99. To: Flintlock (#97) (Edited)
IPCC AR4 Same one Al Gore got. I can't cite the scientific papers but I have seen them.
Well which is it, books or Nobel Prizes, or both?
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
#100. To: Flintlock (#96)
Jeebus needs to try medium-rare sometime.
They burned them because Jeebus loved them.
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (
#101. To: farmfriend (#92)
Is proof needed? I could probably dig some up if you insist. We could play Battle of the Links and Sources. And the minister is positive that his insignificant little jealous insecure psychopathic hypocritical murderous jew desert tribal god is the real creator god? He is indeed a man of (blind) faith. AS for the other scientist believers (!) I dont have a problem with them. They probably haven't even read the bible. It's like a license agreement for installing software. No one reads them. They just click "I Agree" and away you go. So they have an excuse that the 'minister' doesn't have, since I presume he has read the bible and studied it. .
You have no proof of that what so ever. All the ones I know are not only believers but one is a minister.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
“Satanism is about walking against the grain and going against what is considered acceptable by society. Therefore, it is impossible to make it socially acceptable, because when it is accepted by society it is no longer Satanism.” -Unknown
#102. To: noone222 (#82)
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." - Ben Franklin
#103. To: HAPPY2BME-4UM (#88)
deleted
The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.
"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." - Ben Franklin
#104. To: Flintlock (#89)
And you base that assertion upon what? Have I ever said the physical universe was not vast in extent? NO. In fact I have even entered into the argument that universe in which we currently exist is not the only universe. And you know that there are infinite i.e., numbers without bound, galaxies how? And how does simple quantity of matter beget life? Simply saying the universe is of great extent does not answer that fundamental question, and when you assert it does you are arguing from the authority of your own personal dogma. Superior in what way? And what do you mean by superior? Simple technology? Morally? Intellectually? Spiritually? You are offering assertions but no reason why anyone should accept them for anything more than the comments of someone who is hostile to the subject of religion. Certainly you offer no more basis to accept them as valid than that which is offered up by some backwoods hustler in a black Frock Coat.
Unlike Hawking you fail to grasp the size of the universe.
Infinite galaxies, producing infinite planets will produce infinite Earth type planets where life can evolve.
Note to thumpers: - There is irrefutable proof that extraterrestrial intelligent beings exist that are vastly superior to us. Did your "god" make them too?
#105. To: farmfriend (#85)
the rejection of the existence of our Creator..if evidenced only by the creation..boggles the mind.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams 
#106. To: Original_Intent (#86)
hawking believes his own hype.
"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”—Samuel Adams
#107. To: Eric Stratton (#103) (Edited)
=============================================== Kinda squeaky, but I still like it. It keeps you guessing. Agnostics are 'eternity challenged'
She sounds like she belongs in the movie Fargo.
U.S. Constitution - Article IV, Section 4: NO BORDERS + NO LAWS = NO COUNTRY
#108. To: Rotara (#105)
Yes it does.
the rejection of the existence of our Creator..if evidenced only by the creation..boggles the mind.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.
#109. To: PSUSA, farmfriend (#90)
Ever hear of Georges Lemaître? Good thing too, else we'd remain in the atheist-generated dark ages of astrophysics.
It's good that most scientists are atheists. Else we'd remain in the christian-generated dark ages.
He was the Jesuit priest and astrophysicist who came up with the "Big Bang" theory (so named by Fred Hoyle, mocking the idea).
The scientific establishment at the time mocked the idea. Even Einstein disliked it. Eventually the discovery of cosmic microwave background radiation validated his ideas.
Once you go armadillo, you never go back.
#110. To: Armadillo (#109)
www.spaceandmotion.com/co...ang-theory-under-fire.htm So much for that. You speak of theory. Here is an example based on fact: Ever hear of Galileo? lol. Fucking christians forced him to recant when he was right. Well, at least they didn't burn him alive, or stretch him on the rack, or rip his balls off. I suppose they'd call that an act of christian charity... He stayed under house arrest for life. .
Eventually the discovery of cosmic microwave background radiation validated his ideas.
Click for Privacy and Preparedness files
“Satanism is about walking against the grain and going against what is considered acceptable by society. Therefore, it is impossible to make it socially acceptable, because when it is accepted by society it is no longer Satanism.” -Unknown
#111. To: Flintlock (#0)
I think I have discovered the reason why the Bible can contain contradictions, inconsistencies and absurdities and yet remain the immutable word of God. If God has infinite wisdom and infinite intelligence, then, He is capbable of an infinite range of compartmentalisation and rationalisation.... lol
Solutions for Ireland. Say NO to the IMF/World bank. Default on our debt. Print our own debt free currency. Nationalise the trillion euros worth of gas and oil off our west coast. Take back our fishing (200 billion worth). Get our farmers growing again. Done deal if our politicians had the backbone. ~ Jim Corr
#112. To: PSUSA (#110)
Peerhaps you are unaware of how science is supposed to work (AGW not withstanding). Dont worry, I'll educate you. Funny, you have to go back to the 1600's to Galileo, while my example was from the relativly recent 1960's.So much for that. You speak of theory. Here is an example based on fact: Ever hear of Galileo?
Theorys are formulated, tested, and accepted if found to be in agreement with observation. Thus far, the "Big Bang" theory is still the accepted standard. There are ideas in competition with it. They have their own problems and are still being tested.
Atheists just love Galileo, Georges Lemaître and others not so much. LOL.
Once you go armadillo, you never go back.
#113. To: Original_Intent (#104)
That Hawking is the most qualified person on this planet, and the rest of us are unable to comprehend the universe as he does. A quick look at most Hubble photos show billions of galaxies....that's how. To me with my puny earthling brain, that's infinite. Dogma? You're kidding, right. The shear mathematics make life on other planets a guaranteed event. All that matters is the technology. Were the Spanish superior morally to the Indians they tortured to convert to Heysus? It doesn't matter, they had superior technology in the form of guns and steel swords and we able to impose their will with impunity. Believe what you wish, I'm not here to convert you to anything. Don't forget to tithe, Heysus needs money
And you base that assertion upon what?
And you know that there are infinite i.e., numbers without bound, galaxies how?
And how does simple quantity of matter beget life? Simply saying the universe is of great extent does not answer that fundamental question, and when you assert it does you are arguing from the authority of your own personal dogma.
Superior in what way? And what do you mean by superior? Simple technology?
You are offering assertions but no reason why anyone should accept them for anything more than the comments of someone who is hostile to the subject of religion.
"The person who agrees with you 80 percent of the time is a friend and an ally — not a 20 percent traitor" - Ronald Reagan
#114. To: irishthatcherite (#111)
It was written by men and edited by kings....enough said.
I think I have discovered the reason why the Bible can contain contradictions, inconsistencies and absurdities
"The person who agrees with you 80 percent of the time is a friend and an ally — not a 20 percent traitor" - Ronald Reagan
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