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Title: How openminded are you? Have you had a change of heart on any major issue lately?
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Published: Oct 16, 2005
Author: Christine
Post Date: 2005-10-16 10:44:15 by christine
Keywords: openminded, lately?, change
Views: 5879
Comments: 177
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#125. To: CAPPSMADNESS (#122)
how about a minor one? :P
My opinion on Iraq has changed dramatically. I used to associate an anti-war stance with moral cowardice and knee jerk, anti-patriotism.. I realize now that I have more information available about our latest conflict, and after having done some reading into others from the past, that often the reverse is actually true. Are there people who would gleefully meet any occupying army on US soil with a white flag, regardless? Sure.. and I still hate them. But by the same token, there's reasoned dissent, also. It's moral. It's reflective What it's not reflexive and not the least bit indicative of a hatred for the Country or it's citizens.
BUSH: The man is practicing fuzzy math again. There's differences. Under Vice President Gore's plan, he is going to grow the federal government in the largest increase since Lyndon Baines Johnson in 1965.
here's one that i've changed on. i used to loathe all democrats. now i loathe all republicans. juuussss kidding. :P
Yeah! I changed my tag.
I long for the days when "Go fuck yourself!" wasn't the first thought my mind could conceive.
lol. i know you won't be holding your breath.
I used to think I was just "misunderestimating" our president, but lately I've grown to realize "this is historic times" and "we're making steadfast progress."
When prosperity comes, do not use all of it. - Confucious I changed my mind about my vote for Bush over 6 months ago. I see now that I helped vote the wrong man in. Mostly though, I have had a change of heart about the church. More and more, I am seeing the churches move away from God and into the greedy, it's all about money mode. Granted, there are many truly good, God worshiping churches out there, but it seems alot of the churches are all about money and wanting to get into the politics of everything now. Things have really changed since I was a kid. We went to church for one thing, to worship our Lord and give thanks. Nowadays, people go to church for financial classes, to plan vacations and hunting trips, and to look good in their community. Seems the churches are worshiping everything but God these days!
Secure our borders, save our nation!
My other change is an ongoing one. I never felt at peace in the Southern Baptist church. Two years ago, a dear friend introduced me to the Eastern Orthodox Church and it was as if all at once, all of my questions had been answered. I am not Orthodox yet. Nor am I a Baptist any longer. This is not to bash Baptists or Methodists, etc., though I have probably done that a time or three. There are still many great people of faith these churches. But these churches do not answer questions for me.
Come to Asheville sometime and I will treat you to -Or- Get this! We could go to see the Apostle Ron Carpenter preach at his church in Greenville (SC). Yes, and afterwards, take in some Starbucks Coffee in a genuine Starbucks establishment, inside the church! How about this one. One of the Rescue "missions" in Asheville is run by a great man of God. He uses the homeless to build his home(s), do yardwork and pay them less than minimum wage (if at all) to do the work. We can then go to one of the consignment shops to buy some clothes to pay for one of his fancy cars or boats or houses! Then there is my friend (youth pastor) near Columbia (SC) whose church barely makes ends meat, but was among the first to volunteer to take in refugees from New Orleans. They had no idea how they would do it; only that they felt like they should. In the end, they were not called upon to house people. There is another friend who pastors a church near Raleigh who is trying to walk a delicate balance between a congregation who is elderly and doesn't want to do much and a number of younger couples who want to DO. A pastor, friend and mentor from my college days who preaches near to me whose life's work is now focusing on and taking care of the baby boom generation: housing, care, spiritual needs, fun programs, etc. Another pastor who left the church my in-laws go to, to make a career change to do fundraising for a local (to him) Christian College. A great man. Humble, honest, peaceful giant of a man. Not the least bit dynamic personality wise- like you would expect from someone fundraising. Very quiet and a man of few words who has never done fundraising. He loves a good joke and smiles. I don't know how, but that college will be rolling in money. A former music minister at the church my wife and I used to go to. The man never said more than 10 words to anybody during his 5 years there. Somehow, the chior was always full. He played several instruments and always encouraged the kids to pick up and enjoy music. He was always the first to visit someone in the hospital, deliver food or prayer to a family in need. He would drop whatever he was doing in order to help someone at anytime without ever uttering one word of complaint.
Over the last five years, my attitudes on darned near everything have undergone an almost complete reversal and/or re-evaluation. I worked on Reagan's campaign when I was kid. These days I won't work on anyone's political campaign because I discovered, after years of dealing with the absolute and total BS in California, that they're all scum and deserve to be run out of town. Local people around town? The Pubbies are turning into a pack of smug bible-thumpers who wish to personally damn anyone to eternity in an ez-bake oven who dares disagree with them while the Democrats are still "in mourning" over the last Presidential election and want to rule every single facet of my life. Both of them agree when the facts are presented to them that "this crap cannot go on" but then they turn around and do it anyhow. The last of the elder generation of my family is about to pass and my mom has already apologized to me for the mess I will be saddled with. How often does that happen? My cynicism level has reached new heights. I've discovered that I can trust people one-on-one but groups can't be trusted to figure out what they want for breakfast. In other words: Mirage is on his own and is discovering that he likes it.
That's quite a melánge of preachers. Only those who have not sold their souls to worship Mammon are worth the time of day. Glad to see you've found out the Eastern Orthodox Church has survived the onslaught of the Bolsheviks. There is quite a revival of Christian doctrine in Russia now from what I hear from someone I exchange an email with now and then from over there. If you know anything at all about Fatima, you will know that the only way to defeat the current devilish paradigm is for the corrupt Roman Catholic Church to give way and recognize the Eastern Church to end the schism when the East and West split in 1054. The current occupant of the Vatican and the Holy See is a heretic of the worst sort.
"Under every government the dernier resort of the people, is an appeal to the sword; whether to defend themselves against the open attacks of a foreign enemy, or to check the insidious encroachments of domestic foes. Whenever a people... entrust the defence of their country to a regular, standing army, composed of mercenaries, the power of that country will remain under the direction of the most wealthy citizens." Anonymous Framer of U.S. Constitution, Independent Gazetteer, January 29, 1791
You bring the tar and I'll bring the feathers. If you have a neighbor that is worthwhile, he can bring a fence rail and we'll have us a ball. LOL Hang in there. The tide always turns.
"Under every government the dernier resort of the people, is an appeal to the sword; whether to defend themselves against the open attacks of a foreign enemy, or to check the insidious encroachments of domestic foes. Whenever a people... entrust the defence of their country to a regular, standing army, composed of mercenaries, the power of that country will remain under the direction of the most wealthy citizens." Anonymous Framer of U.S. Constitution, Independent Gazetteer, January 29, 1791
Things have really changed since I was a kid. We went to church for one thing, to worship our Lord and give thanks. Nowadays, people go to church for financial classes, to plan vacations and hunting trips, and to look good in their community. Seems the churches are worshiping everything but God these days! The churches and pastors have all sold out for their 501(c)(3) tax exemption. They no longer worship God, but Mammon instead. "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will hold to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon" (Matthew 6:24). The blind are truly leading the blind... and together they will all fall in the ditch. Good on ya that you see where they are headed so you don't join them. ;0) BTW, in the revolutionary era the British called the preachers and pastors the "Black Brigade" because they could raise up 300 men in an afternoon to march and oppose the Redcoats anywhere at any time. If you will examine the history of the Protestant churches in the colonies you will see that they were very politically active, constantly preaching against the Crown and preaching the Word of God as it is spoken in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Many preachers were tortured and murdered by the King's men for refusing to take a license. We have much the same situation today in every walk of life and there are few with the courage to stand up to the plundering pirates and tell them loudly "NO!"
"Under every government the dernier resort of the people, is an appeal to the sword; whether to defend themselves against the open attacks of a foreign enemy, or to check the insidious encroachments of domestic foes. Whenever a people... entrust the defence of their country to a regular, standing army, composed of mercenaries, the power of that country will remain under the direction of the most wealthy citizens." Anonymous Framer of U.S. Constitution, Independent Gazetteer, January 29, 1791
I have not voted for a main two party canidate since "92". I have for a long time known something is and has been wrong with the elected and unelected people in our 3 branches of government. 911 and the following aftermath really put me into high gear to look for the real reasons behind all the mess that has been done to our country over the decades. I quit watching tv, reading the local papers and listening to local radio. I bought some dvds and videos from various patriots and truthseekers, along with a shortwave radio. Over the last 1 1/2 years, read and researched so many topics, well over a 1000 hours, to get where I`m at today, and for those who are new here or lurking, keep digging and searching. I had this forum saved in my favorites since the spring, but didn`t register till I felt I knew enough. I still don`t know as near as much as I would like, but its a slow process. This is where all of our current problems have started from. Discovering this has been the biggest eye opener in my views on all events; The ownership of the central banks, a very well kept secret, 1. Rothschild Bank of London 2. Warburg Bank of Hamburg 3. Rothschild Bank of Berlin 4. Lehman Brothers of New York 5. Lazard Brothers of Paris 6. Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York 7. Israel Moses Seif Banks of Italy 8. Goldman, Sachs of New York 9. Warburg Bank of Amsterdam 10. Chase Manhattan Bank of New York. These bankers are connected to London Banking Houses which ultimately control the FED. When England lost the Revolutionary War with America where our forefathers were fighting their own government, they planned to control us by controlling our banking system, the printing of our money, and our debt. The individuals listed below owned banks which in turn owned shares in the FED. The banks listed below have significant control over the New York FED District, which controls the other 11 FED Districts. These banks also are partly foreign owned and control the New York FED District Bank: First National Bank of New York, James Stillman National City Bank, New York, Mary W. Harnman, National Bank of Commerce, New York, A.D. Jiullard Hanover, National Bank, New York, Jacob Schiff, Chase National Bank, New York, Thomas F. Ryan, Paul Warburg, William Rockefeller, Levi P. Morton, M.T. Pyne, George F. Baker, Percy Pyne, Mrs. G.F. St. George, J.W. Sterling, Katherine St. George, H.P. Davidson, J.P. Morgan (Equitable Life/Mutual Life), Edith Brevour, T. Baker. Mark
IMO the problem is Americanized Christianity. Many of the churches have become a way to socialize and to find more and more ways to get members by some social experience. Most churches are politicized rather than preaching the true Gospel they preach some skewed view of God and Christ.. using the newspaper to interpret the bible.. Loonies using eschatology to push their middle east agenda.
Excellent!!! I'm always looking for new talk shows/forums. So much of radio is just the same old lame old neo-cons and Air America generally sucks. I used to listen to the Power Hour with that former army nurse (O'Reilly? I can't think of her name) and enjoyed that, but I guess too much real info was getting out as they took it off the air in Boston.
fantastic post! three words: FOLLOW THE MONEY
In other words: Mirage is on his own and is discovering that he likes it. that's something i'm discovering as well. i used to be a lot more trusting of people than i am now. nothing shocks me anymore.
True, but usually not as quickly as one would like. Taking a stare at things and witnessing the polarization and "political theocracy" being preached from both the right and the left, it really makes you wonder. IMO, things will have to get a LOT worse before they can get even a tiny bit better. Fortunately, I don't think we'll have to wait too much longer for that :)
I heard your radio spot a few times today on RBN. It sounded great, and you have an excellent radio voice. Great work. Mark
thank you, Mark.
My thoughts exactly. How much of the Media is "controlled". I'm just jaded enough to think that even most of the "alternative" media is controlled to some degree also. Where do all the stories come from? The AP, newswires and basically just a few sources. Unless you have your own reporter doing the leg work and most of those that are effective end up committing suicide ;) I follow some of it for amusement. (shit's and giggles)
"Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." - Voltaire
A minor one? You mean there are still minor ones left???
After reading more of his posts.. I now Consider Trace to be "Uber-gay" As opposed to merely a "gigantic-faggot" Does that count?
BUSH: The man is practicing fuzzy math again. There's differences. Under Vice President Gore's plan, he is going to grow the federal government in the largest increase since Lyndon Baines Johnson in 1965.
Even Gayer than old what's-his face???
Trace who? :P
Yes... Until 1998, I despised Bill Clinton as much as I now despise GWBush. (Now I simply find him mildly annoying after my dislike turned to sympathy while watching the witchhunt launched against him) Until 1998, I admired Republican eaders. (Does blatant hypocrisy ring any bells?) Until 1999, I considered Democrats to be(good people but) ignorant fools politically. (Now I think MOST American voters are good people but ignorant fools politically) Until 2000, I had always voted Republican as a registered Independent. (Give me a decent GOPer candidate and I might again.) Until 1999, I wholeheartedly believed in the father, son, and holy ghost as well as the bible. Today I see a marvelous book of fiction. (You just can't unring a bell once it's sounded off. I often wish I hadn't rung this one but wishing doesn't help) Until 2001, I believed that America was safe from the idjits in charge. (Today I wonder WHO REALLY was behind 9-11, Oklahoma?) Until Sept. 2005, I thought Barbara Bush was a nice person down deep. (But hell, she's happy in her hog heaven because she's never known anything worse) Until 2001, I thought America was safe from the insanity in the rest of the world. (Childish hopes) Until 2001, I thought Americans had enough sense NOT to give away our freedoms for psuedo security. (Patriot Act?) Until 2003, I thought folks who believed in political conspiracies were a bit tetched. (New world order? Apocalypse Now? America sold to the highest bidder? Who shot Kennedy? Who took down the twin towers?) IOW, I have changed all of my world views 100% in the last 8 years with one notable exception... I still think Hillary Clinton is an asshole. Clever, extremely bright, but an asshole nevertheless. Apparently, I'm so openminded that my brains fell out and when I put them back in, my entire world view was changed... How about you? (I didn't read ALL of the posts so if you've already answered, just point me to it)
Don't force feed me your views... talk to me so I can hear you...
If you mean within the last year; the answer would be no. If you mean within the last 3 years, the answer would be yes. When I realized that not only did our government know about the plans of 9/11 in advance, they actually carried them out, and that both parties and the media were actively covering it up, and it was WORKING, I knew that America was doomed. Before this I still had a sliver of hope for America. It is only a matter of time until the USA is no more. Wishing the facts were different, won't change the facts. It’s definitely time to start building that boat.
God is always good! Hey Cath.. I am in agreement with about 99% of what you said.. Who'd have ever thought LOL :P
oh my, sia, i could have written that. every example you gave, i can relate to.
Ah, so the KJV is the only version which doesn't explain the prolific presence of human-like bipeds which clearly aren't primates in fossil form? Or why prehistoric organisms and animals of all shapes and sizes were duking it out and competing for resources before homo-sapiens came along with their original sin. And as far as Mount Sinai, I always wondered if God knew Moses would break his tablets, why didn't he use a little foresight and make them metal instead of stone?
wasn't she being facetious? dude, answer the fucking question at the top of this thread. :P
Oh crap.....why don't you go take a couple of midols and go to bed! You sound like raggin hag!
What a twit she's turning into.
It's scary to think that so many Americans haven't moved an inch from wherever they sat last year... or two years ago... even TEN years ago... I hope they've at least changed their hairdoes. {;~/ Christine, if you'd known Lois & I a few years back, you'd not BELIEVE that we could now be friends... So at odds with each other on EVERY subject, sniping and biting each other's heel at every opportunity. Those were the days back on the OBB... I don't miss the snipin' but I do miss so many of the regulars.
Don't force feed me your views... talk to me so I can hear you...
who's done the most changin'?
I wonder where they all are now? Justlurking who posts here was from the currents board.. do you remember Raven? I know some are at the Cheese Board.. loony board.
Probably me.. LOL!
who's done the most changin'? From Zipporah: Probably me.. LOL! Yup, you... giggle... but inna GOOD way... I did most of my major changin' BEFORE we met in '99... Since then, I've just been tweakin'. The old gang? I only talk to a handful of them today. Most simply disappeared when OBB died.
Don't force feed me your views... talk to me so I can hear you...
I don't know if I can disagree with that, though let me add the following. The American Protestant Church is dying. It is something you won't hear much about and something that is very hush-hush. There are a few books out there, a few conversations on forums, and my friends who are pastors who have told me because they are so interested as to why I am leaving the Protestant church in my process of becoming Orthodox. I am sick today, woke up about an hour ago and can't go back to sleep and if I am recalling this correctly, Protestant Church membership reached its peak in the 50's, or perhaps it was the percentage of Americans who were on Protestant church rolls. Regardless, a peak was reached at that time. However, the first noteable signs of a mass exodous from Protestant churches were not felt until recently (90's). This happened with the Presbyterians, Lutherans, Episcopals and others who had strongly entrenched themselves as "liberal" or "socially liberal" and even "theologically liberal" churches (think NE liberalism-socialism). Churches who characterize themselves as conservative, fundamental or evangelcial have seen significant increases in membership. Churches who are traditional have been exploding. Traditional Catholic and Orthodoxy as examples. However, there is speculation that the conservative, fundamental, evangelical movement is peaking and these folks are out the door for the same reasons they left the liberal churches 10 years ago. This is where my friends are so interested in me as no one knows why people are leaving the Protestant church. One thinking is that a lot of denominations are stuck in the 50's mode of worship. It is a cookie cutter worship pattern. Greet - prayer - sing - prayer - sing - offering - choir singing - preach - sing - invitation - benediction. Another is that the message is either too liberal or too conservative. And there are others. I am about to be quite critical of the Protestant church so please don't take what I have to say personal and as I remind myself that there are so many great people of faith within Protestant circles that we can all learn so much from. Its not that the message is either liberal or conservative- its that it changes. Sometimes it changes by the week and the message varries from church to church. God changes His mind and moves in multiple directions quite often. The Christian community is trying to keep up with a fast paced world consumed by technology, 24 hour news, microwave mentality, on the go. Bookstores (for example) try to market to teenagers recently by labeling everything "Extreme" or "Urban". The latest fad, the latest marketing ploy, the latest and greatest hook to get people in (or in your words- the social experience). This is one of the reasons people are leaving. The world is hectic enough; the church needs to be a refuge from this and it needs to be something steady and consistent. The Protestant church has low expectations. Show up on a regular basis, say enough Jesus' and amens and say you believe and you are good to go. This is one of the things that appeals me to Orthodoxy. High expectations and disciplined though in all things mercy and peace. The Protestant church has lost touch with church history and tradition. This is understandable considering where they came from. Few Protestants know why they are protesting and what they are protesting. Even fewer know there is another history outside that of the Roman version. This is one of the things that got me as I love reading about church history and tradition. John Smyth, a principal founder of the Baptists said that holding to the church sacraments (confession, communion, etc) is vital and among the most important things people should do and do often. Say that today in any Southern Baptist church and you will be frog-marched out of the front door. A Protestant church answer has been to use a new methodology of tossing out a few Scripture verses and spending the rest of the time on psychology- making you feel better about you. This has been going on for a while but is best seen with Joel Olsteen. This is nothing personal against Mr Olsteen, but any Christian Bookstore you go into today has hundreds, perhaps thousands of books all dealing with self-help and psychology with a little Christianty thrown in. Though (quite) successful now, it has fatal flaws. You are not getting any "meat" and as Rush is fond of saying "style over substance". One friend is quite concerned over this "answer" and has shown me other areas and people who are quite concerned as well.
I still think Hillary Clinton is an asshole. Clever, extremely I agree, S.
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#126. To: christine (#0)
#127. To: Jhoffa_ (#126)
#128. To: christine (#89)
#129. To: Hmmmmm (#128)
#130. To: christine (#0)
The nation is prosperous on the whole, but how much prosperity is there in a hole? - Will Rogers
#131. To: christine (#0)
#132. To: christine, all (#71)
#133. To: nc_girl_speaks_up (#131)
Build-More!, er (there I go again), Biltmore Baptist church which counts its members by the thousands. The church features a cafe and coffee shop. Gyms, auditoriums. Its great! You can go there and have people do your thinking for you. Mind-numbed, thoughtless Christianity. Don't forget to wear your Sunday best and pull up in nothing less than a Benz', BMW, Hummer, Acura, Caddy, or at the very least, nothing less than 3 years old.
#134. To: christine (#89)
bwahahaha....
#135. To: scooter (#133)
#136. To: mirage (#134)
they're all scum and deserve to be run out of town.
Mirage is on his own and is discovering that he likes it.
#137. To: nc_girl_speaks_up (#131)
it seems alot of the churches are all about money and wanting to get into the politics of everything now.
#138. To: christine (#108)
#139. To: scooter (#132)
#140. To: PnbC (#83)
#141. To: Kamala (#138)
#142. To: mirage (#134)
I've discovered that I can trust people one-on-one but groups can't be trusted to figure out what they want for breakfast.
#143. To: BTP Holdings (#136)
The tide always turns.
#144. To: christine (#142)
#145. To: Kamala (#144)
#146. To: who knows what evil (#25)
I find myself paying less and less attention to so-called 'major issues' because it is too difficult to ascertain the truth anymore.
#147. To: christine (#125)
how about a minor one? :P
#148. To: CAPPSMADNESS, Christine (#147)
#149. To: Jhoffa_ (#148)
#150. To: Jhoffa_ (#148)
#151. To: christine (#41)
How openminded am I? Have I had a major change of view?
#152. To: christine (#0)
How openminded are you? Have you had a change of heart on any major issue lately?
"It was an interesting day." - President Bush, recalling 9/11 [White House, 1/5/02]
#153. To: siagiah (#151)
#154. To: siagiah (#151)
Apparently, I'm so openminded that my brains fell out and when I put them back in, my entire world view was changed...
#155. To: rowdee (#94)
Well....we all know the KJV was given to old Moses on Mt. Sinai!
#156. To: Moldi-Box, rowdee (#155)
Well....we all know the KJV was given to old Moses on Mt. Sinai!
#157. To: Moldi-Box (#155)
#158. To: christine (#156)
#159. To: christine, Zipporah, all (#156)
#160. To: siagiah, Zip (#159)
#161. To: siagiah (#159)
Those were the days back on the OBB... I don't miss the snipin' but I do miss so many of the regulars.
#162. To: christine, Siagiah (#160)
who's done the most changin'?
#163. To: Zipporah, Christine (#162)
To: christine, Siagiah
#164. To: Zipporah (#139)
#165. To: siagiah (#151)
bright cunning, but an asshole nevertheless. 
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