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Title: How openminded are you? Have you had a change of heart on any major issue lately?
Source: n/a
URL Source: http://none
Published: Oct 16, 2005
Author: Christine
Post Date: 2005-10-16 10:44:15 by christine
Keywords: openminded, lately?, change
Views: 6081
Comments: 177

Who's going to go first?

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 164.

#2. To: christine (#0)

My mind is made up. Strong evidence could change my mind. I voted for the Nazi Bush in 2000. Was a republican. Despise them now.

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-10-16   10:54:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Me too. I voted for Nero Bush in 2000. Was working hard to convince others of the same. Vote Republican and everything will be okay! Today I am working just as hard to convince people to see things as freedom v tyranny. By any measuring stick you want to use, Republicans have had the House and Senate now for 11 years and the White House for almost 5; to rephrase President Reagan, are you any more free today than you were 4 years ago, 10 years ago? I can't think of a single facet of my life that isn't based upon fees, taxes or regulations. Breathing, perhaps. Thought.... well, Congress is quickly working on that one.

scooter  posted on  2005-10-16   12:45:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

your experience mirrors mine exactly.

christine  posted on  2005-10-16   13:07:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

My other change is an ongoing one. I never felt at peace in the Southern Baptist church. Two years ago, a dear friend introduced me to the Eastern Orthodox Church and it was as if all at once, all of my questions had been answered. I am not Orthodox yet. Nor am I a Baptist any longer. This is not to bash Baptists or Methodists, etc., though I have probably done that a time or three. There are still many great people of faith these churches. But these churches do not answer questions for me.

scooter  posted on  2005-10-17   2:06:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

IMO the problem is Americanized Christianity. Many of the churches have become a way to socialize and to find more and more ways to get members by some social experience. Most churches are politicized rather than preaching the true Gospel they preach some skewed view of God and Christ.. using the newspaper to interpret the bible.. Loonies using eschatology to push their middle east agenda.

Zipporah  posted on  2005-10-17   7:09:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I don't know if I can disagree with that, though let me add the following.

The American Protestant Church is dying. It is something you won't hear much about and something that is very hush-hush. There are a few books out there, a few conversations on forums, and my friends who are pastors who have told me because they are so interested as to why I am leaving the Protestant church in my process of becoming Orthodox. I am sick today, woke up about an hour ago and can't go back to sleep and if I am recalling this correctly, Protestant Church membership reached its peak in the 50's, or perhaps it was the percentage of Americans who were on Protestant church rolls. Regardless, a peak was reached at that time.

However, the first noteable signs of a mass exodous from Protestant churches were not felt until recently (90's). This happened with the Presbyterians, Lutherans, Episcopals and others who had strongly entrenched themselves as "liberal" or "socially liberal" and even "theologically liberal" churches (think NE liberalism-socialism). Churches who characterize themselves as conservative, fundamental or evangelcial have seen significant increases in membership. Churches who are traditional have been exploding. Traditional Catholic and Orthodoxy as examples. However, there is speculation that the conservative, fundamental, evangelical movement is peaking and these folks are out the door for the same reasons they left the liberal churches 10 years ago. This is where my friends are so interested in me as no one knows why people are leaving the Protestant church.

One thinking is that a lot of denominations are stuck in the 50's mode of worship. It is a cookie cutter worship pattern. Greet - prayer - sing - prayer - sing - offering - choir singing - preach - sing - invitation - benediction. Another is that the message is either too liberal or too conservative. And there are others.

I am about to be quite critical of the Protestant church so please don't take what I have to say personal and as I remind myself that there are so many great people of faith within Protestant circles that we can all learn so much from. Its not that the message is either liberal or conservative- its that it changes. Sometimes it changes by the week and the message varries from church to church. God changes His mind and moves in multiple directions quite often. The Christian community is trying to keep up with a fast paced world consumed by technology, 24 hour news, microwave mentality, on the go. Bookstores (for example) try to market to teenagers recently by labeling everything "Extreme" or "Urban". The latest fad, the latest marketing ploy, the latest and greatest hook to get people in (or in your words- the social experience). This is one of the reasons people are leaving. The world is hectic enough; the church needs to be a refuge from this and it needs to be something steady and consistent.

The Protestant church has low expectations. Show up on a regular basis, say enough Jesus' and amens and say you believe and you are good to go. This is one of the things that appeals me to Orthodoxy. High expectations and disciplined though in all things mercy and peace.

The Protestant church has lost touch with church history and tradition. This is understandable considering where they came from. Few Protestants know why they are protesting and what they are protesting. Even fewer know there is another history outside that of the Roman version. This is one of the things that got me as I love reading about church history and tradition. John Smyth, a principal founder of the Baptists said that holding to the church sacraments (confession, communion, etc) is vital and among the most important things people should do and do often. Say that today in any Southern Baptist church and you will be frog-marched out of the front door.

A Protestant church answer has been to use a new methodology of tossing out a few Scripture verses and spending the rest of the time on psychology- making you feel better about you. This has been going on for a while but is best seen with Joel Olsteen. This is nothing personal against Mr Olsteen, but any Christian Bookstore you go into today has hundreds, perhaps thousands of books all dealing with self-help and psychology with a little Christianty thrown in. Though (quite) successful now, it has fatal flaws. You are not getting any "meat" and as Rush is fond of saying "style over substance". One friend is quite concerned over this "answer" and has shown me other areas and people who are quite concerned as well.

scooter  posted on  2005-10-18   8:39:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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