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Title: How openminded are you? Have you had a change of heart on any major issue lately?
Source: n/a
URL Source: http://none
Published: Oct 16, 2005
Author: Christine
Post Date: 2005-10-16 10:44:15 by christine
Keywords: openminded, lately?, change
Views: 6026
Comments: 177

Who's going to go first?

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 78.

#2. To: christine (#0)

My mind is made up. Strong evidence could change my mind. I voted for the Nazi Bush in 2000. Was a republican. Despise them now.

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-10-16   10:54:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I voted for the Nazi Bush in 2000. Was a republican. Despise them now.

Me too. That's probably the biggest change for me, learning about the origins and agenda of the neocons.

Also, I now have an increasing awareness about the Zionist agenda that I did not before. I was not aware of their impact and use of U.S. policies and resources to further their own.

robin  posted on  2005-10-16   11:02:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

increasing awareness about the Zionist agenda

Im not sure about the zionist stuff. I always thought God gave the land to the Jews. So I look at it as their land. Anything you care to share on the subject.

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-10-16   11:06:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Im not sure about the zionist stuff. I always thought God gave the land to the Jews. So I look at it as their land. Anything you care to share on the subject.

It isn't surprising, given our MSM. Just keep reading the articles posted here. Remember, we are not speaking of all the Jews, just the fanatical element of the Likud party, whom we refer to usually as Zionists.

I see Israel's right to exist, I also see the rights of the Palestinians.

But, it is more than just what's happening "over there". There is tons of evidence about the influence of Americans (some with dual Israeli citizenship too), who have been appointed to positions of great power in the Bush administration.

For example:

Under Dov Zakheim, as Comptroller of the Pentagon, 3 $Trillion went missing. He resigned rather hurriedly.

John Negroponte, the son of a Greek shipping magnate, born in London, is head of all our 11 intelligence agencies. He is also a Jew. He was also known back in the '80s as having through the CIA, trained vicious killers in Latin/South America, who among other things, pushed nuns our of helicopters, etc.

Chertoff has automatic dual citizenship with Israel, through his mother; he of course, is Director of Homeland Security.

Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, Elliott Abrams, and others (all Jews, all neocons - former Trotskyites), all worked out of Dick Cheney's office. They were all involved in the White House Iraq Group (WHIG), which sought war with Iraq, 8 months before we invaded. At least some of these have dual citizenship with Israel; they will neither deny nor confirm, but they have homes and close relatives in Israel.

Now, if you are a Christian, you cannot become a citizen of Israel. Therefore, you would never be allowed inside their govt. But, as you can see, the reverse is not true.

Nine out of ten of the Russian Oligarchs are Jewish. The Russian Revolution brought many into the inner circle.

Don't take my words for these things. Search for yourself. This forum has done some of the work for you, by posting links and articles here.

robin  posted on  2005-10-16   11:40:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I can see some of your points. Hitler said basically the same thing. Im not trying to say you favor hitler or anything like that. But why did hitler hate the zionists like some of us do? I really want to know more on the subject. In the Bible it does say that God gave the land to the jews. Not the palestineans. The palestineans should go somewhere else. Israel should pay for their plane tickets.

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-10-16   11:49:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I can see some of your points. Hitler said basically the same thing. Im not trying to say you favor hitler or anything like that. But why did hitler hate the zionists like some of us do? I really want to know more on the subject. In the Bible it does say that God gave the land to the jews. Not the palestineans. The palestineans should go somewhere else. Israel should pay for their plane tickets.

Well, Lord Balfour and the UK allowed Israel into Palestine. The people already living there were the Palestinians. Do you think the Native Americans should buy you a plane ticket for Gibraltor? Or, wherever?

BTW, there are several embedded links in my post to you. Sometimes they don't show up as well as they should. Please check them out and read more on your own. Then make your own decision, based on lots of information; not just what's fed to you by MSM.

robin  posted on  2005-10-16   11:52:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

ell, Lord Balfour and the UK allowed Israel into Palestine. The people already living there were the Palestinians. Do you think the Native Americans should buy you a plane ticket for Gibraltor? Or, wherever?

BTW, there are several embedded links in my post to you. Sometimes they don't show up as well as they should. Please check them out and read more on your own. Then make your own decision, based on lots of information; not just what's fed to you by MSM.

I will check out your links. I already knew about lots of jews in our government. I dont watch msm news. As for the Indians, you have a point. Since im part Indian I can stay I guess.

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-10-16   12:00:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Also what academia fed you. It was all tainted.

Many Americans, from petite Dolly Parton to 6'4" James Garner (Rockford Files) are part Native American. They know it, many do not.

Being Scottish didn't keep the Scots in Scotland. The English killed or threw them out. Yet, there are no reparations for the descendents of Scotland, and they now live all over the globe, many here. I read a couple articles that claimed the Communist Chinese call this history "Sheep ate people", as further proof of evil Western Civilization.

Throughout world history forced human migrations and upheavals were rather common. We should all be more civilized by now, but it appears we are not.

I confess, I grow weary about hearing only of the trials and tribulations of one group, over and over. Up to 40 million Europeans died in WWII, but how many people know that?

robin  posted on  2005-10-16   12:10:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The bible talks of in the last days the jews returning to their land. Just curious do you believe the Bible is the word of God?

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-10-16   12:15:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

The bible talks of in the last days the jews returning to their land. Just curious do you believe the Bible is the word of God?

Yes I do.

Are you familiar with this verse?

Mark 13:32 - But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Do you think God needs Pat Robertson and and others like him to fulfill His prophecy? They seem very eager to hurry the end times along. Doesn't that seem rather presumptuous?

And why is it that the Rev. Falwell and Robertson have not spoken out against the crimes against humanity being committed in Iraq? And against the Palestinians? Isn't that what all good ministers of the Gospel should be doing? A voice for the helpless? Instead, they are as hawkish as possible, Bibles in hand, promoting warfare against innocent civilians living in their own homeland!

Do you think that by calling it "liberation" and "spreading democracy" that, suddenly, that makes killing women and children, in their own country, okay?

robin  posted on  2005-10-16   12:29:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Mark 13:32 - But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Do you think God needs Pat Robertson and and others like him to fulfill His prophecy? They seem very eager to hurry the end times along. Doesn't that seem rather presumptuous?

And why is it that the Rev. Falwell and Robertson have not spoken out against the crimes against humanity being committed in Iraq? And against the Palestinians? Isn't that what all good ministers of the Gospel should be doing? A voice for the helpless? Instead, they are as hawkish as possible, Bibles in hand, promoting warfare against innocent civilians living in their own homeland!

Do you think that by calling it "liberation" and "spreading democracy" that, suddenly, that makes killing women and children, in their own country, okay?

Mark 13:32 is talking about the lords return. I don't think it says anything about the jews returning to the promised land.

I dont think God needs Pat Robertson or anyone to fulfill his prophecy. (im not a Pat Robertson fan.)

Falwell and Robertson don't speak out because they probably arent christians.

However I dont consider Palestineans homeland to be israel.

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-10-16   12:33:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Mark 13:32 is talking about the lords return. I don't think it says anything about the jews returning to the promised land.

Yes of course. Israel has existed since 1948, that's old news. I already told you I believe Israel has a right to exist.

There is other land, outside Israel, that should belong to the Palestinians. They are living there now, but under Israel's unkind thumb.

That the Palestinians do not have a homeland is a cause of great concern in the Arab world.

In 1967, Israelis moved into Gaza. They just left last month. It was not part of the Balfour deal.

BTW, have you read anything on USS Liberty?

On June 8, 1967 while patrolling in international waters[2] in the Eastern Mediterranean Sea, USS Liberty (AGTR-5) was savagely attacked without warning or justification by air and naval forces of the state of Israel.[3]

Of a crew of 294 officers and men[4] (including three civilians)[5], the ship suffered thirty four (34) killed in action and one hundred seventy three (173) wounded in action.[6] The ship itself, a Forty Million ($40,000,000) Dollar state of the art signals intelligence (SIGINT) platform, was so badly damaged that it never sailed on an operational mission again and was sold in 1970 for $101,666.66 as scrap[7] .

Israel acknowledged the following facts without qualification:

a. USS Liberty was an American ship, hence a neutral vis-à-vis the June 1967 war between Israel and its Arab neighbors.[8]b. USS Liberty remained in international waters at all times on June 8, 1967[9] .c. The attacking Israeli forces never made a positive identification of the nationality of USS Liberty before unleashing deadly force in their attack on the ship.[10]

robin  posted on  2005-10-16   12:42:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

I believe that the land the bible describes as giving to the jews for eternity is much larger then what they now occupy. That includes the gaza strip and parts of egypt.

Yes I now about the US liberty. I dont know if it was attacked purpousefully though. What was to gain from attacking it?

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-10-16   12:45:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Yes I now about the US liberty. I dont know if it was attacked purpousefully though. What was to gain from attacking it?

Yes I [k]now about the US[S] liberty!?!

But not a whole lot, eh?

wbales  posted on  2005-10-16   12:48:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

Yes I now about the US liberty. I dont know if it was attacked purpousefully though. What was to gain from attacking it?

Yes I [k]now about the US[S] liberty!?!

But not a whole lot, eh?

There is NO CONCLUSIVE proof that it was attacked intentionally. Maybe they did attack on purpose. It's still speculation.

A K A Stone  posted on  2005-10-16   13:25:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

#80. To: A K A Stone (#78)

There is NO CONCLUSIVE proof that it was attacked intentionally.

It was ordered to be left unprotected and sunk...LBJ said he wanted that "G.D" ship on the bottom.

Lod  posted on  2005-10-16 13:46:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

There is NO CONCLUSIVE proof that it was attacked intentionally. Maybe they did attack on purpose. It's still speculation.

Read for yourself what the survivors have to say. http://ussliberty.org/

And if you've a mind to do your due diligence in this you will also find where one of the Israeli pilots broke off the attack when he realized the ship was American, and was court martialed for it later by the IDF. This pilot has recently visited the U.S. and apologized personally to the survivors.

His story alone is proof that the attack was a premeditated war crime on a ship of the United States Navy in international waters.

We should have bombed the hell out of them back then and the world would be better off today. The ONLY reason it was NOT done was because of TREASON at the highest levels. Even jets launched twice by the USS Saratoga were recalled both times, once on the direct orders of LBJ.

BTP Holdings  posted on  2005-10-16 14:08:44 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

It's too bad you didn't hear Alex Jones' interview of the ship's doctor, whose name slips my mind at the moment, a few months ago. There is conclusive proof. LBJ's own words for one example, as a matter of fact.

christine  posted on  2005-10-16 16:26:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  

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