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Title: NATO helicopter crashes in Afghanistan, killing 31 U.S. troops
Source:
reuters.com
URL Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011 ... violence-idUSTRE7750UW20110806
Published: Aug 6, 2011
Author: Michelle Nichols
Post Date: 2011-08-06 07:06:38 by Ferret
Keywords: None
Views: 2039
Comments: 134
(Reuters) - A NATO helicopter crashed in central Afghanistan overnight killing 31 U.S. soldiers and 7 Afghan troops, the Afghan president said on Saturday, a devastating death toll and easily the worst single incident for foreign troops in 10 years of war. A brief statement from the presidential palace said the helicopter had crashed in central Maidan Wardak province, just to the west of the capital, Kabul, and identified the Americans as special forces troops. Afghan President Hamid Karzai "shared his deep sorrow and sadness" with U.S. counterpart Barack Obama and the families of the U.S. and Afghan victims, the statement said. The Taliban claimed to have shot down the troop-carrying Chinook helicopter during a firefight and killed 38 soldiers. The Islamist group also said in a statement that eight insurgents had been killed in torrid fighting. The NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) confirmed a helicopter had crashed but gave no further details. The high casualties come only two weeks after the start of a gradual process of handing security responsibility from foreign forces to Afghan troops and police, and at a time of growing unease about the increasingly unpopular and costly war. That process is due to end with all foreign combat troops leaving Afghanistan by the end of 2014, but some U.S. lawmakers have already questioned whether that handover is fast enough. Incidents with heavy death tolls are sure to raise even more questions about the transition process and how much longer foreign troops should stay. The crash was by far the worst incident of the war for foreign troops and easily surpassed the worst incidents of battlefield losses. In April 2005, another CH-47 Chinook helicopter crashed, killing 15 U.S. servicemen and three civilian contractors. Another Chinook crash in June the same year killed 17 U.S. troops. WORRYING U.S. and other NATO commanders have claimed success in reversing the momentum of a growing insurgency in the Taliban heartland in the south, although insurgents have shown a worrying ability to adapt their tactics and mount major attacks in other areas. Those gains, however, have come at a price, with 711 foreign troops killed in Afghanistan in 2010, easily the deadliest year of the war for all concerned since the Taliban were toppled by U.S.-backed foreign troops in late 2001. The crash in Maidan Wardak means that at least 374 foreign troops have been killed so far in 2011, more than two-thirds of them American, according to independent monitor www.icasualties.com and figures kept by Reuters. Neither ISAF nor the U.S. military in Afghanistan confirmed whether there had been any casualties in the crash despite repeated telephone calls, much less any nationalities that might have been involved. The majority of foreign troops in Wardak, which comes under ISAF's eastern regional command, are American. Despite the alarming military toll, ordinary Afghan civilians have continued to bear the brunt of the war, with civilian casualties also hitting record levels in the first six months of this year, according to U.N. figures. Earlier on Saturday, Afghan police said a NATO air strike killed eight civilians in southern Helmand province on Friday. ISAF confirmed there had been an air strike in Helmand's Nad Ali district and said it was investigating whether civilians had been present at the time. Civilian casualties caused by foreign troops hunting Taliban fighters and other insurgents have long been a major source of friction between Kabul and its Western backers. Nad Ali district police chief Shidi Khan said the air strike was called in after insurgents attacked ISAF troops in the area. The victims of Friday's air strike in Helmand were members of a family that had fled fighting in neighboring Uruzgan province, police said. ISAF said the civilians may have been held hostage by the insurgents. The most contentious of the first seven areas to be handed over was the Helmand provincial capital of Lashkar Gah. Helmand province has been the site of some of the most vicious fighting of the war. Far more foreign troops have died there than in any other province and there are still several Helmand districts dominated by the Taliban. In the past month, insurgents have carried out a string of destabilizing assassinations of high-profile southern leaders, including president Karzai's half brother, and several large attacks killing police and civilians. A U.N. report last month said 1,462 civilians were killed in conflict-related incidents in the first six months of 2011, up 15 percent on the first half of 2010. It blamed insurgents for 80 percent of those deaths. (Additional reporting by Mustafa Andalib in GHAZNI and Mirwais Harooni and Haseeb Sadat in KABUL; Editing by Paul Tait and Ron Popeski) World
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#48. To: Phant2000, Jethro Tull (#23)
I respect diversity, Jethro. I was just voicing MY opinion. That's funny because I asked several questions that I believe unbiased observers would agree were the kind that one cannot weasel around and you suddenly piled on (with others, no doubt believing there was safety in numbers) and became an enemy of my free speech, and you insulted my intelligence in order to lick your buddy's ass. So, you approve of free speech for those who don't ask questions that force you to look at things about yourself that you cannot face. For instance, why did you sign up at Goldi's in the first place? (Tell me again how I don't have the intelligence to judge others, then explain how a man of your "intellect" failed to notice what that place was all about-you saw what I wrote about Goldi refugees which included you by inference and you decided to attack me, and you failed to make a case of substance, piling on instead with the flimsiest of arguments that addressed nothing I wrote.) The fact is you are just as I described you: A cowardly herd animal who operate(s) like (those in) bands of hyenas. And, questioning my intelligence (especially in light of the fact that you couldn't address a single question without revealing your hypocrisy) is never done by anyone except those who are without any intellectual ammo with which to mount a counter argument. The simple truth is, stupid people don't know that they're stupid. It took a while but you finally stepped on your own dick and revealed your hypocrisy and your intellectual deficit. So, tell us again how you can see through me. And, of course if you feel that you can make the case that my post was so egregious that I don't deserve free speech then, have at it! Otherwise it's checkmate, you cowardly, ass licking sycophant.
Well hot damn, 20-12, nice addition. The balls out corruption in this CORPORATION called AmeriKa *never* ceases to amaze me. Let me repeat this in case my position on *today's* US military isn't clear; the mofo's are low IQ Hessians, who if they return to the states, will aspire to become become blue clad, donut munching, citizen abusing piggies.Kill them there or here, it doesn't matter a wit to me. I'm solely interested in the bottom line.
Such a gentleman. I'm pleased to see that I am not the only target of one of your childish outbursts mislabled as a cogent reply. How could this possibly be "Revenge"? Does Allah actually give a shit about all his little Martyred morons who get to go to Virgin Ville when they die? This headline is utter crap. Unless the little terrorists KNEW who was on the helicopter, this is NOT revenge. I am so sick of this war, and all of the bullshit. Our politicians have got to go. We need LEADERS, not liars. It's time to pack up our military, and bring them home. They do not need to die, just so some oil company can maximize their profits.
"Call Me Ishmael" -Ishmael, A character from the book "Moby Dick" 1851. "Call Me Fishmeal" -Osama Bin Laden, A character created by the CIA, and the world's Hide And Seek Champion 2001-2011. -Tommythemadartist
How long were you home from the jungle before joining the PD? Any idea the percentage of vets who join some sort of LE? Thanks.
Break the Conventions - Keep the Commandments - G.K.Chesterson I went into the NYPD @ 19 years old under what was then called a trainee program. At 19, I took, and passed, the academic and physical portion of the job. Our function was to free up cops from paperwork so they could get back out onto the street. It was successful, but disbanded nevertheless, because it seemed only white kids wanted it, or passed? When I turned 21, I automatically was appointed to the PD. As a trainee, my 1-A draft status, became 2-A, so I ducked the mess by the skin of my teeth. As far as the app. number of vets who went on to become police officers, it was high. I'd guess 75%. In fact, IIRC, a vet received 5 extra points on the written portion of the testing so they were being actively recruited.
Thanks for the information. The war on white males has done nothing but intensify since then.
Break the Conventions - Keep the Commandments - G.K.Chesterson I once thought this way but have since changed my mind. Keep 'em There is my new bumper sticker.
This statement, to me, makes no sense. Dis you mean: "These Seals are nowhere near the problem of the pols, the prez, the military-industrial complex, the neocon thinktanks and the spook agencies." "
If yes, why? Seems to me to be possible. One of the crew was a dog, prolly a very special dog, similar to the one used in the OBL op.
Some peopoo's needs to lighten up. I seen this type of unexpected aggression before. Bucky come to mind. Alcohol is sometimes involved.
It is a violation of Natural Law to use this document in a manner inconsistent with its labeling. how much formaldehyde would it require for UBL to have been there?
Paul Craig Roberts call bullshit on the UBL op the same day that it was announced. Time and events have proved him way, way more correct than wrong in many arenas.
Break the Conventions - Keep the Commandments - G.K.Chesterson I seen this type of unexpected aggression before. Bucky come to mind. Alcohol is sometimes involved. I don't know what his problem is, but Alcohol seems to be a workable theory.
Rumor control says YES I told ya, they'd be whacked
"You'll just sing about Jesus and drink wine all day. It's great to be an American" - Sail Away by Randy Newman
HD's finger needs to be pointed right back at himself.
They will be using white males to prosecute that war too. You know that they can be fearsomely efficient.
It is a violation of Natural Law to use this document in a manner inconsistent with its labeling. HD's finger needs to be pointed right back at himself. Or possibly stuck somewhere else.
I once thought this way but have since changed my mind. Keep 'em There is my new bumper sticker. Beer snort event.
Actually, "Leave 'Em There" is a better choice of words, as in, ABANDON-IN-PLACE.
Might be.
at what point does one's actions become his/her responsibility? i was just doing my job doesn't cut it forever.
BIIIIINGOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Someone's got to tie up the loose ends before the 9-11-11 milestone, and these wars have got to be wound down too. The bin Ladin myth has to be put to rest in a way that cannot be gainsaid by ostensible eyewitnesses. Trouble is that there are Pakistani eyewitnesses that tell another tale. Most of the furriners that I meet nowadays know that our government is full of shit with its narratives.
It is a violation of Natural Law to use this document in a manner inconsistent with its labeling. It takes hundreds of thousands of dollars to produce a Green Beret or Navy Seal and a 10 cent bullet to kill one. The loser is the one that runs out of money first, not men.
*Before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, I invite you to compare the number of Irish, Italian, German, and Scandinavian political philosophers who have written on liberty and limited government with the number of English philosophers who published works on the subject" - Vox Day
well, if they didnt really take part in a 'heroic firefight' killing the world's biggest booogeyman & chose to bear false witness instead, maybe they reap what they sow. too bad for them.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
They received lawful orders, nothing here that violates the military and human rights protocols of the Geneva Conventions and other treaties we have signed. It was an entirely lawful action against counterinsurgents and the SEALs' service was honorable. I'm no fan of the military-industrial complex or these wars for empire. But our troops should be respected if they do their job and follow lawful orders. Of course, SEALs are the last guys who would ever refuse any order, they will accept suicide missions. It is part of their duty. They don't run, they don't quit, they don't refuse. Ever. That is much of what the incredibly harsh SEAL training is intended to instill in them. The same has been true of top elite troops ever since the Brits invented the commando in the WW II era. With the SEALs, we have reached the pinnacle of what can be accomplished with such troops.
In the millions, probably the tens of millions. They have the new stealth copters. It is widely believed that they have at least one nuclear sub that were retired from the active fleet (and probably more) and have had those subs since the Reagan years. Some of this is very expensive equipment to operate. The costs have to be assigned to the total cost of the SEAL program.
It was an entirely lawful action against counterinsurgents and the SEALs' service was honorable. Whenever our military murders innocent civilians are on the orders of our largely chicken-hawk civilian leadership usually on demonstrably trumped up grounds, a crime is committed. There has been just too much "collateral damage" in these phony wars that we have been fighting the past decade or so. For those that volunteer to fight in these conflicts, I have small regard and little sympathy. I do not thank them for their DIS-service. And as far as the elite troops among them go, they are the moral equivalent of an SS Waffen division, and that is how history will judge them.
It is a violation of Natural Law to use this document in a manner inconsistent with its labeling. I believe you're right.
“Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of the day, but a series of oppressions begun at a distinguished period, unalterable through every change of ministers, too plainly prove a deliberate, systematic plan of reducing us to slavery”. Thomas Jefferson
You have less cause for making accusations of atrocity against elite troops. They aren't used the same way or on the same type of routine missions as our rank-and-file military. Given the general puniness of this particular operation, I'm surprised they bothered to risk using so many SEALs. Essentially, they flew out, found a nest of insurgents, called an air strike that killed 8 of them in a particular position, decided they had cleaned them out, and some raghead got off a lucky shot when they were taking off on the Chinook to return to base. The action was (to them) already over when they got killed by a lucky RPG hit. The real question to me is why they used so many SEALs on this mission. Were they lured by the Taliban (who desperately need a propaganda victory for recruiting and funding purposes)? Were they careless in failing to entirely clear the area of insurgents before lifting off in the chopper? Obviously so.
Puh-leeze. Even you don't believe that our statist historians and libmedia will ever describe "da toops" in those terms.
Today's news reports 38 (and one dog) as fatalities.
Break the Conventions - Keep the Commandments - G.K.Chesterson same here. in fact they think the average american is stupid for believing the US Gov propaganda on 9/11 and these wars.
That was the initial report as well. It was 23 SEALs (I think), five of the special ops aircrew assigned to the SEALs (but not actual SEALs themselves), three "air controllers" (not otherwise specified as to their branch but they are associated with elite forces as they were during the Bin Laden killing), and a dog handler and his dog, and 7 Afghan troops which were probably their version of elite troops.
Yes, puh-leeze. The credibility of "our statist historians and libmedia" and those to the right of them, indeed the credibility of all of the establishment media in this country is close to zero. When this country gets the comeupance it is so desperately working to achieve, these folks will no longer be writing history. Whenever a robot killer plows into a Pashtun neighborhood in order to blow up one or two Islamist crazies and blows off the arms and legs of folks who are by any stretch non-combatants, it's not only those who direct those weapons who are guilty of crimes, it is also you and me. At least the Waffen SS believed that it was defending Europe from an order to the East that established itself through the murder of tens of millions of its own. These elite troops were engaged in a losing war in which their homeland was surrounded and outnumbered. Still, what that organization did in the prosecution that war was criminal. What is our excuse??
It is a violation of Natural Law to use this document in a manner inconsistent with its labeling. Yeah, right. Ping me when that happens. American historians and libmedia have been propagandists for the state ever since the organized effort during WW I to bring this about. They experienced real failure following WW I when a few diehard historians exposed the real facts about WW I to the public in several outstanding books that shaped American understanding about that war. With WW II and ever since, the establishment has worked steadily to prevent any repeat of honest history about our wars being influential in public opinion. And this is a bipartisan effort. Both parties work to suppress the truth. No, it is not. We are in no position to control these excesses and massacres routinely staged by the District of Criminals and the military-industrial complex.
I ping you as it's happening. Don't look now, but the world no longer gives a shit what the Kalbs and the Krauthammers and all the other scrbblers and so-called historians that went to grad school with their like have to say.
It is a violation of Natural Law to use this document in a manner inconsistent with its labeling. The loser is the one that runs out of money first, not men.
I told ya, they'd be whacked If true, they have some very deeply planted assets inside our military, which should come to no surprise to anyone who possesses a handful of still active brain cells. This ISN'T our father's military, a fact unfortunately lost on so many.
Thanks, tom.
Comments (89 - 134) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestDid I say you couldn't? I, too, am grateful there is this forum, where free speech is still respected. I would do nothing to deny you your own opinions. It is the way one comes to know who they share space with on this earth.
#49. To: TwentyTwelve, 4um (#32)
#50. To: HOUNDDAWG, Phant2000, Jethro Tull (#48)
"Noise proves nothing. Often a hen who has merely laid an egg cackles as if she laid an asteroid." ~ Mark Twain
Phant2000, Today: "The kids of "years ago" were led into battle by the same f'n politicians that we look at today."
Smedley Butler, 1935: "War is a Racket."
#51. To: TwentyTwelve (#32)
#52. To: Jethro Tull (#49)
#53. To: Lod (#52)
#54. To: Jethro Tull (#53)
#55. To: TommyTheMadArtist (#51)
It's time to pack up our military, and bring them home.
#56. To: TooConservative (#15)
The military is nowhere near the problem of the pols, the prez, the military-industrial complex, the neocon thinktanks and the spook agencies.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" 
#57. To: Jethro Tull (#25)
Were these the guys who killed OBL, and some of his assorted family members?
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#58. To: Original_Intent, HOUNDDAWG, Phant2000, Jethro Tull (#50)
______________________________________________________
"It's a absurd insinuation."
#59. To: Lod (#46)
the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET
#60. To: IRTorqued, 4 (#59)
#61. To: randge, HOUNDDAWG, Phant2000, Jethro Tull (#58)
Some peopoo's needs to lighten up.
#62. To: Jethro Tull (#25)
Were these the guys who killed OBL, and some of his assorted family members?
#63. To: Original_Intent (#50)
Such a gentleman. I'm pleased to see that I am not the only target of one of your childish outbursts mislabled as a cogent reply.
#64. To: Lod (#54)
The war on white males has done nothing but intensify since then.
______________________________________________________
"It's a absurd insinuation."
#65. To: Phant2000 (#63)
Such a gentleman. I'm pleased to see that I am not the only target of one of your childish outbursts mislabled as a cogent reply.
#66. To: Jethro Tull (#55)
It's time to pack up our military, and bring them home.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#67. To: Jethro Tull (#55)
Keep 'em There is my new bumper sticker.
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936 2011)
#68. To: TwentyTwelve (#38)
It looks like the US government is tying up loose ends in the Bin Laden saga.
#69. To: TooConservative (#9)
(Edited)
#70. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#34)
It looks like the US government is tying up loose ends in the Bin Laden saga.
#71. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#34)
It looks like the US government is tying up loose ends in the Bin Laden saga.
______________________________________________________
"It's a absurd insinuation."
#72. To: Ferret (#0)
#73. To: Original_Intent, twentytwelve (#42)
#74. To: christine (#69)
at what point does one's actions become his/her responsibility? i was just doing my job doesn't cut it forever.
#75. To: Turtle (#72)
It takes hundreds of thousands of dollars to produce a Green Beret or Navy Seal and a 10 cent bullet to kill one.
#76. To: TooConservative (#74)
They received lawful orders, nothing here that violates the military and human rights protocols of the Geneva Conventions and other treaties we have signed.
______________________________________________________
"It's a absurd insinuation."
#77. To: randge (#76)
And as far as the elite troops among them go, they are the moral equivalent of an SS Waffen division, and that is how history will judge them.
#78. To: randge (#76)
Whenever our military murders innocent civilians are on the orders of our largely chicken-hawk civilian leadership usually on demonstrably trumped up grounds, a crime is committed.
#79. To: randge (#76)
And as far as the elite troops among them go, they are the moral equivalent of an SS Waffen division, and that is how history will judge them.
#80. To: TooConservative, 4 (#79)
#81. To: randge (#71)
(Edited)
Most of the furriners that I meet nowadays know that our government is full of shit with its narratives.
#82. To: Lod (#80)
Today's news reports 38 (and one dog) as fatalities.
#83. To: TooConservative (#79)
Puh-leeze. Even you don't believe that our statist historians and libmedia will ever describe "da toops" in those terms.
______________________________________________________
"It's a absurd insinuation."
#84. To: randge (#83)
(Edited)
When this country gets the comeupance it is so desperately working to achieve, these folks will no longer be writing history.
Whenever a robot killer plows into a Pashtun neighborhood in order to blow up one or two Islamist crazies and blows off the arms and legs of folks who are by any stretch non-combatants, it's not only those who direct those weapons who are guilty of crimes, it is also you and me.
#85. To: TooConservative (#84)
Yeah, right. Ping me when that happens.
______________________________________________________
"It's a absurd insinuation."
#86. To: Turtle, Ferret (#72)
(Edited)
It takes hundreds of thousands of dollars to produce a Green Beret or Navy Seal and a 10 cent bullet to kill one.
#87. To: Flintlock (#62)
Rumor control says YES
#88. To: tom007 (#57)
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