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Title: NATO helicopter crashes in Afghanistan, killing 31 U.S. troops
Source:
reuters.com
URL Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011 ... violence-idUSTRE7750UW20110806
Published: Aug 6, 2011
Author: Michelle Nichols
Post Date: 2011-08-06 07:06:38 by Ferret
Keywords: None
Views: 2216
Comments: 134
(Reuters) - A NATO helicopter crashed in central Afghanistan overnight killing 31 U.S. soldiers and 7 Afghan troops, the Afghan president said on Saturday, a devastating death toll and easily the worst single incident for foreign troops in 10 years of war. A brief statement from the presidential palace said the helicopter had crashed in central Maidan Wardak province, just to the west of the capital, Kabul, and identified the Americans as special forces troops. Afghan President Hamid Karzai "shared his deep sorrow and sadness" with U.S. counterpart Barack Obama and the families of the U.S. and Afghan victims, the statement said. The Taliban claimed to have shot down the troop-carrying Chinook helicopter during a firefight and killed 38 soldiers. The Islamist group also said in a statement that eight insurgents had been killed in torrid fighting. The NATO-led International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) confirmed a helicopter had crashed but gave no further details. The high casualties come only two weeks after the start of a gradual process of handing security responsibility from foreign forces to Afghan troops and police, and at a time of growing unease about the increasingly unpopular and costly war. That process is due to end with all foreign combat troops leaving Afghanistan by the end of 2014, but some U.S. lawmakers have already questioned whether that handover is fast enough. Incidents with heavy death tolls are sure to raise even more questions about the transition process and how much longer foreign troops should stay. The crash was by far the worst incident of the war for foreign troops and easily surpassed the worst incidents of battlefield losses. In April 2005, another CH-47 Chinook helicopter crashed, killing 15 U.S. servicemen and three civilian contractors. Another Chinook crash in June the same year killed 17 U.S. troops. WORRYING U.S. and other NATO commanders have claimed success in reversing the momentum of a growing insurgency in the Taliban heartland in the south, although insurgents have shown a worrying ability to adapt their tactics and mount major attacks in other areas. Those gains, however, have come at a price, with 711 foreign troops killed in Afghanistan in 2010, easily the deadliest year of the war for all concerned since the Taliban were toppled by U.S.-backed foreign troops in late 2001. The crash in Maidan Wardak means that at least 374 foreign troops have been killed so far in 2011, more than two-thirds of them American, according to independent monitor www.icasualties.com and figures kept by Reuters. Neither ISAF nor the U.S. military in Afghanistan confirmed whether there had been any casualties in the crash despite repeated telephone calls, much less any nationalities that might have been involved. The majority of foreign troops in Wardak, which comes under ISAF's eastern regional command, are American. Despite the alarming military toll, ordinary Afghan civilians have continued to bear the brunt of the war, with civilian casualties also hitting record levels in the first six months of this year, according to U.N. figures. Earlier on Saturday, Afghan police said a NATO air strike killed eight civilians in southern Helmand province on Friday. ISAF confirmed there had been an air strike in Helmand's Nad Ali district and said it was investigating whether civilians had been present at the time. Civilian casualties caused by foreign troops hunting Taliban fighters and other insurgents have long been a major source of friction between Kabul and its Western backers. Nad Ali district police chief Shidi Khan said the air strike was called in after insurgents attacked ISAF troops in the area. The victims of Friday's air strike in Helmand were members of a family that had fled fighting in neighboring Uruzgan province, police said. ISAF said the civilians may have been held hostage by the insurgents. The most contentious of the first seven areas to be handed over was the Helmand provincial capital of Lashkar Gah. Helmand province has been the site of some of the most vicious fighting of the war. Far more foreign troops have died there than in any other province and there are still several Helmand districts dominated by the Taliban. In the past month, insurgents have carried out a string of destabilizing assassinations of high-profile southern leaders, including president Karzai's half brother, and several large attacks killing police and civilians. A U.N. report last month said 1,462 civilians were killed in conflict-related incidents in the first six months of 2011, up 15 percent on the first half of 2010. It blamed insurgents for 80 percent of those deaths. (Additional reporting by Mustafa Andalib in GHAZNI and Mirwais Harooni and Haseeb Sadat in KABUL; Editing by Paul Tait and Ron Popeski) World
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#70. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#34)
BIIIIINGOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Someone's got to tie up the loose ends before the 9-11-11 milestone, and these wars have got to be wound down too. The bin Ladin myth has to be put to rest in a way that cannot be gainsaid by ostensible eyewitnesses. Trouble is that there are Pakistani eyewitnesses that tell another tale. Most of the furriners that I meet nowadays know that our government is full of shit with its narratives.
It is a violation of Natural Law to use this document in a manner inconsistent with its labeling. It takes hundreds of thousands of dollars to produce a Green Beret or Navy Seal and a 10 cent bullet to kill one. The loser is the one that runs out of money first, not men.
*Before anyone gets their panties in a bunch, I invite you to compare the number of Irish, Italian, German, and Scandinavian political philosophers who have written on liberty and limited government with the number of English philosophers who published works on the subject" - Vox Day
well, if they didnt really take part in a 'heroic firefight' killing the world's biggest booogeyman & chose to bear false witness instead, maybe they reap what they sow. too bad for them.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
They received lawful orders, nothing here that violates the military and human rights protocols of the Geneva Conventions and other treaties we have signed. It was an entirely lawful action against counterinsurgents and the SEALs' service was honorable. I'm no fan of the military-industrial complex or these wars for empire. But our troops should be respected if they do their job and follow lawful orders. Of course, SEALs are the last guys who would ever refuse any order, they will accept suicide missions. It is part of their duty. They don't run, they don't quit, they don't refuse. Ever. That is much of what the incredibly harsh SEAL training is intended to instill in them. The same has been true of top elite troops ever since the Brits invented the commando in the WW II era. With the SEALs, we have reached the pinnacle of what can be accomplished with such troops.
In the millions, probably the tens of millions. They have the new stealth copters. It is widely believed that they have at least one nuclear sub that were retired from the active fleet (and probably more) and have had those subs since the Reagan years. Some of this is very expensive equipment to operate. The costs have to be assigned to the total cost of the SEAL program.
It was an entirely lawful action against counterinsurgents and the SEALs' service was honorable. Whenever our military murders innocent civilians are on the orders of our largely chicken-hawk civilian leadership usually on demonstrably trumped up grounds, a crime is committed. There has been just too much "collateral damage" in these phony wars that we have been fighting the past decade or so. For those that volunteer to fight in these conflicts, I have small regard and little sympathy. I do not thank them for their DIS-service. And as far as the elite troops among them go, they are the moral equivalent of an SS Waffen division, and that is how history will judge them.
It is a violation of Natural Law to use this document in a manner inconsistent with its labeling. I believe you're right.
“Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of the day, but a series of oppressions begun at a distinguished period, unalterable through every change of ministers, too plainly prove a deliberate, systematic plan of reducing us to slavery”. Thomas Jefferson
You have less cause for making accusations of atrocity against elite troops. They aren't used the same way or on the same type of routine missions as our rank-and-file military. Given the general puniness of this particular operation, I'm surprised they bothered to risk using so many SEALs. Essentially, they flew out, found a nest of insurgents, called an air strike that killed 8 of them in a particular position, decided they had cleaned them out, and some raghead got off a lucky shot when they were taking off on the Chinook to return to base. The action was (to them) already over when they got killed by a lucky RPG hit. The real question to me is why they used so many SEALs on this mission. Were they lured by the Taliban (who desperately need a propaganda victory for recruiting and funding purposes)? Were they careless in failing to entirely clear the area of insurgents before lifting off in the chopper? Obviously so.
Puh-leeze. Even you don't believe that our statist historians and libmedia will ever describe "da toops" in those terms.
Today's news reports 38 (and one dog) as fatalities.
Break the Conventions - Keep the Commandments - G.K.Chesterson same here. in fact they think the average american is stupid for believing the US Gov propaganda on 9/11 and these wars.
That was the initial report as well. It was 23 SEALs (I think), five of the special ops aircrew assigned to the SEALs (but not actual SEALs themselves), three "air controllers" (not otherwise specified as to their branch but they are associated with elite forces as they were during the Bin Laden killing), and a dog handler and his dog, and 7 Afghan troops which were probably their version of elite troops.
Yes, puh-leeze. The credibility of "our statist historians and libmedia" and those to the right of them, indeed the credibility of all of the establishment media in this country is close to zero. When this country gets the comeupance it is so desperately working to achieve, these folks will no longer be writing history. Whenever a robot killer plows into a Pashtun neighborhood in order to blow up one or two Islamist crazies and blows off the arms and legs of folks who are by any stretch non-combatants, it's not only those who direct those weapons who are guilty of crimes, it is also you and me. At least the Waffen SS believed that it was defending Europe from an order to the East that established itself through the murder of tens of millions of its own. These elite troops were engaged in a losing war in which their homeland was surrounded and outnumbered. Still, what that organization did in the prosecution that war was criminal. What is our excuse??
It is a violation of Natural Law to use this document in a manner inconsistent with its labeling. Yeah, right. Ping me when that happens. American historians and libmedia have been propagandists for the state ever since the organized effort during WW I to bring this about. They experienced real failure following WW I when a few diehard historians exposed the real facts about WW I to the public in several outstanding books that shaped American understanding about that war. With WW II and ever since, the establishment has worked steadily to prevent any repeat of honest history about our wars being influential in public opinion. And this is a bipartisan effort. Both parties work to suppress the truth. No, it is not. We are in no position to control these excesses and massacres routinely staged by the District of Criminals and the military-industrial complex.
I ping you as it's happening. Don't look now, but the world no longer gives a shit what the Kalbs and the Krauthammers and all the other scrbblers and so-called historians that went to grad school with their like have to say.
It is a violation of Natural Law to use this document in a manner inconsistent with its labeling. The loser is the one that runs out of money first, not men.
I told ya, they'd be whacked If true, they have some very deeply planted assets inside our military, which should come to no surprise to anyone who possesses a handful of still active brain cells. This ISN'T our father's military, a fact unfortunately lost on so many.
Thanks, tom.
Official word is that they were not the OBL team, but were Team Six seals.
And the "offishul" word is to be granted credibility why? This is the same government that told us they whacked Osama Bin Dead Ten Years this year? That aircraft fuel can melt steel? There is no credible confirmation one way or another, but the psychotic murderers running our government are not beyond whacking witnesses who might have some "inconvenient truths".
Inside Scoop: Shot Down Black-Op Seals Won't Be Talking Now | Before It's News
Of course, the official credibility is just about zero.
Start with the CIC, then work your way on down.
"You'll just sing about Jesus and drink wine all day. It's great to be an American" - Sail Away by Randy Newman
Tell that to the Chinese-made American flag wavers. Spit.
A brief message from our Líder. It is a violation of Natural Law to use this document in a manner inconsistent with its labeling. Hope you got a quiet, out of the way place in Montana to repair to. You're right. And, many analysts agree with you that Israel may be the first place to take it in the shorts. I suppose I had locked into the assumption that if the only "anti-Semitic pogrom" at the time was conducted by Justice and the "innocent targets" were seeking sanctuary from indictments, well, you know the rest. Of course if the whole world simultaneously heaves in the attempt to regurgitate their last feeding of jooshit then Israel may be hit with everything from Molotovs from the 2nd class non humans in residence to nukes from Pakistan. Which is why I'm confident that at least on Israeli trustee is charged with the responsibility of carrying the panic button, perhaps on a "help, I've fallen and I can't get up" pendant around his neck. That way, no matter how sudden Armageddon comes home to them it is their earnest hope that someone will be able to launch and kill multi-millions of those damned European and Arab Gentiles.
LoL. How dare you diss the disadvantaged hero grunts who are being taken advantage of by the sneaky elites? Without the grunts, you wouldn't even have the freedom to post here!!! /C
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Well, randge and JT may graciously let you off the hook but I'm not gonna! You're a goddam commie peacenik traitor for changing your mind and withdrawing your support of the troops who provide the umbrella of freedom under which you sleep each night! If it wasn't for those brave souls we'd be up to our asses in Afghans firing howitzers and leveling our neighborhoods and elementary schools! Wake up and join the Republican Party before it's too late! (This message was paid for by The Log Cabin Republicans and the Conservos for a Drug Free America. Remember, if you get caught with a joint in your mouth it better have two nuts attached!)
Damn.
It is a violation of Natural Law to use this document in a manner inconsistent with its labeling. Another Chinook helicopter crash lands in Afghanistan days after Taliban kills 38 | Mail Online * NATO reports no casualties * Taliban claim responsibility for 'hard landing' * Demonstrations after claims civilians were killed in night raids * Incidents come barely two weeks after foreign troops began first phases of withdrawal from Afghanistan By Daily Mail Reporter Last updated at 1:37 PM on 8th August 2011
IMO, the Russians have given the Taliban the equivalent of our Stinger missile. What goes around, comes around. Let enough of our "hero grunts" come home in pine boxes and the MIC will have less tools to play with. I have *zero* sympathy for these AmeriKan invaders. They knew the deal going in.
IMO, the Russians have given the Taliban the equivalent of our Stinger missile. What goes around, comes around. Let enough of our "hero grunts" come home in pine boxes and the MIC will have less tools to play with. I have *zero* sympathy for these AmeriKan invaders. They knew the deal going in. Aaron Carson Vaughn - Photos of the Fallen: Americans shot down in Afghanistan - Pictures | WJLA.com
The media always plays on people's emotions.
Hee, hee. I was searching through some of my back postings and saw that big juicy plum sitting there and I just had to pick it. ;-)
"The American soldiers actually have more in common with the people they are killing than with the billionaires who are sending them to war."
Same is true of any military. It is part of their purpose. Other than true warrior nations like ancient Greece's city-states or maybe Prussia under the Junkers, it remains almost universally true. So I'm not objecting to your observation, merely pointing out that this is the norm, not anything exceptional.
Might be. US officers oppose releasing names of dead troops - Yahoo! News The chief of the secretive US special operations command has lobbied against the release of names of American commandos killed in a helicopter crash in Afghanistan, officials said Tuesday. The remains of the 30 US service members killed in the helicopter crash were returned to the United States on Tuesday at Dover Air Force Base in Delaware. But despite requests from news organizations, a solemn transfer ceremony at Dover attended by President Barack Obama and other top officials was closed to the media. The military said the fallen troops could not be identified "due to the catastrophic nature of the crash," and that next-of-kin were not in a position to grant approval for media access to the transfer ceremony.
for some reason, i can't see your post 100. what is it?
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestIt looks like the US government is tying up loose ends in the Bin Laden saga.
#71. To: F.A. Hayek Fan (#34)
It looks like the US government is tying up loose ends in the Bin Laden saga.
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"It's a absurd insinuation."
#72. To: Ferret (#0)
#73. To: Original_Intent, twentytwelve (#42)
#74. To: christine (#69)
at what point does one's actions become his/her responsibility? i was just doing my job doesn't cut it forever.
#75. To: Turtle (#72)
It takes hundreds of thousands of dollars to produce a Green Beret or Navy Seal and a 10 cent bullet to kill one.
#76. To: TooConservative (#74)
They received lawful orders, nothing here that violates the military and human rights protocols of the Geneva Conventions and other treaties we have signed.
______________________________________________________
"It's a absurd insinuation."
#77. To: randge (#76)
And as far as the elite troops among them go, they are the moral equivalent of an SS Waffen division, and that is how history will judge them.
#78. To: randge (#76)
Whenever our military murders innocent civilians are on the orders of our largely chicken-hawk civilian leadership usually on demonstrably trumped up grounds, a crime is committed.
#79. To: randge (#76)
And as far as the elite troops among them go, they are the moral equivalent of an SS Waffen division, and that is how history will judge them.
#80. To: TooConservative, 4 (#79)
#81. To: randge (#71)
(Edited)
Most of the furriners that I meet nowadays know that our government is full of shit with its narratives.
#82. To: Lod (#80)
Today's news reports 38 (and one dog) as fatalities.
#83. To: TooConservative (#79)
Puh-leeze. Even you don't believe that our statist historians and libmedia will ever describe "da toops" in those terms.
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"It's a absurd insinuation."
#84. To: randge (#83)
(Edited)
When this country gets the comeupance it is so desperately working to achieve, these folks will no longer be writing history.
Whenever a robot killer plows into a Pashtun neighborhood in order to blow up one or two Islamist crazies and blows off the arms and legs of folks who are by any stretch non-combatants, it's not only those who direct those weapons who are guilty of crimes, it is also you and me.
#85. To: TooConservative (#84)
Yeah, right. Ping me when that happens.
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"It's a absurd insinuation."
#86. To: Turtle, Ferret (#72)
(Edited)
It takes hundreds of thousands of dollars to produce a Green Beret or Navy Seal and a 10 cent bullet to kill one.
#87. To: Flintlock (#62)
Rumor control says YES
#88. To: tom007 (#57)
#89. To: Jethro Tull (#88)
"Satan / Cheney in "08" 
#90. To: tom007 (#89)
#91. To: tom007, Jethro Tull (#89)
Official word is that they were not the OBL team, but were Team Six seals.
#92. To: tom007, Jethro Tull (#89)
#93. To: Original_Intent (#90)
And the "offishul" word is to be granted credibility why?
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#94. To: Jethro Tull (#87)
they have some very deeply planted assets inside our military,
#95. To: Flintlock (#94)
#96. To: Flintlock (#94)
Start with the CIC
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"It's a absurd insinuation."
#97. To: randge (#40)
That ain't outside the bounds of contemplation, HD. However, given demographic trends over there when TSHTF, it might first be curtains for the Occupation State of Zion and it'll be the west-bound flights that will be all booked up.
#98. To: Jethro Tull (#12)
fuck them and the Humvee they rode in on.
#99. To: Ferret, randge, Jethro tull (#41)
(Edited)
This is one of my least enjoyable sort of post to make, but in regard to our past argument concerning this war I made the wrong leap of faith on it, and deserve a good helping of crow for my support of it. Thanks for calling bullshit on me over it.
#100. To: Artisan (#98)
#101. To: Original_Intent (#100)
______________________________________________________
"It's a absurd insinuation."
#102. To: christine, F.A. Hayek Fan (#70)
#103. To: TwentyTwelve (#102)
* Taliban claim responsibility for 'hard landing'
#104. To: Jethro Tull (#103)
* Taliban claim responsibility for 'hard landing'
#105. To: Jethro Tull (#104)
Aaron Carson Vaughn - Photos of the Fallen: Americans shot down in Afghanistan - Pictures | WJLA.com
#106. To: randge (#101)
Damn.
#107. To: TooConservative, RickyJ (#14)
They are there to take orders and do or die.
#108. To: TwentyTwelve (#107)
"The American soldiers actually have more in common with the people they are killing than with the billionaires who are sending them to war."
#109. To: Ada (#68)
It looks like the US government is tying up loose ends in the Bin Laden saga.
#110. To: Original_Intent (#100)
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