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Title: Scientists believe Brazil has huge underground river
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper ... d/2011/0827/1224303061123.html
Published: Aug 28, 2011
Author: TOM HENNIGAN
Post Date: 2011-08-28 06:29:43 by Tatarewicz
Keywords: None
Views: 95
Comments: 4

SCIENTISTS IN Brazil believe they have discovered a giant subterranean river flowing several kilometres beneath the Amazon river.

A team of geophysicists at the country’s national observatory said an examination of 241 oil wells drilled across the Amazon region in the 1970s and 1980s indicated the presence of a river system up to 4km below the Earth’s surface. The scientists believe the river is up to 6,000km long and, like the Amazon, flows from west to east.

“Tests on water temperatures in the wells show that for the first 2,000m, water movement is vertical, going down. But then, between 2,000 and 4,000m, the movement is lateral,” says Valiya Hamza, the leader of the team that made the discovery and after whom the river has been named.

Though almost as long as the 6,110km Amazon, the underground river is up to four times as wide, stretching out to 400km in places.

Prof Hamza said the discovery means the Amazon basin has two drainage systems – the Amazon and Hamza rivers. Like the Amazon, the underground river is fed by waters from the Andes mountains to the west of Brazil.

It is formed by fresh water but because of its great depth its temperature is 30-35 degrees, significantly warmer than the tropically heated Amazon river.

With a flow rate of 130,000 cubic metres a second, the Amazon is by far the world’s biggest river and dwarfs the Hamza, which the team estimates has a flow of just 3,900 cubic metres a second. “But even then, it is pretty significant. If it was on the surface it would be bigger than the São Francisco river,” says Prof Hamza, referring to the biggest river wholly within Brazil’s borders.

It would also make the underground river bigger than Europe’s Rhine, Loire and Elbe rivers combined. If its length of 6,000km is confirmed, it would rank as the world’s fifth-longest river, just behind the Mississippi.

The team examined data from oil wells drilled in the western Amazonian state of Acre right the way across the Amazon basin to the island of Marajó at the mouth of the Amazon river itself. It plans to undertake a further two years of tests and analysis to confirm the Hamza’s existence.

Though the size of the new river was described as “fantastic” by the team, the likely existence of underground rivers is known to geophysicists. “Underground water movement is a phenomenon that occurs in diverse geological environments,” says Prof Hamza.

“For example, it appears that there is a subterranean river underneath Rome.”

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#1. To: Tatarewicz (#0)

If we can just figger a way to Dam it............

ndcorup  posted on  2011-08-28   15:49:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: ndcorup (#1)

turbines.

Anti-racist Libertarians are just Marxists who don't want to wait for the state to wither away.

Prefrontal Vortex  posted on  2011-08-29   12:51:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Prefrontal Vortex (#2)

Water flow may be too slow for turbines. Maybe geothermal.

Subterranean Amazon river 'is not a river' Richard Black By Richard Black Environment correspondent, BBC News Underground river The underground flow is nothing like those sometimes found in caves

A subterranean river said to be flowing beneath the Amazon region of Brazil is not a river in the conventional sense, even if its existence is confirmed.

The "river" has been widely reported, after a study on it was presented to a Brazilian science meeting last week.

But the researchers involved told BBC News that water was moving through porous rock at speeds measured in cm, or inches, per year - not flowing.

Another Brazilian expert said the groundwater was known to be very salty.

Valiya Hamza and Elizabeth Tavares Pimentel, from the Brazilian National Observatory, deduced the existence of the "river" by using temperature data from boreholes across the Amazon region.

The holes were dug by the Brazilian oil company Petrobras in the search for new oil and gas fields, and Petrobras has since released its data to the scientific community.

Using mathematical models relating temperature differences to water movement, the scientists inferred that water must be moving downwards through the ground around the holes, and then flowing horizontally at a depth of several km. Continue reading the main story “Start Quote

The word 'river' should be burned from the work - it's not a river whatsoever”

Jorge Figueiredo Petrobras geologist

They concluded that this movement had to be from West to East, mimicking the mighty Amazon itself.

A true underground river on this scale - 6,000km (4,000 miles) long - would be the longest of its kind in the world by far.

But Professor Hamza told BBC News that it was not a river in the conventional sense.

"We have used the term 'river' in a more generic sense than the popular notion," he said.

In the Amazon, he said, water was transported by three kinds of "river" - the Amazon itself, as water vapour in atmospheric circulation, and as moving groundwater.

"According to the lithologic sequences representative of Amazon [underground sedimentary] basins, the medium is permeable and the flow is through pores... we assume that the medium has enough permeability to allow for significant subsurface flows." Glacial progress

The total calculated volume of the flow - about 4,000 cubic metres per second - is significant, although just a few percent of the amount of water transported by the Amazon proper. Amazon mouth The underground flow could be confirmed with coastal measurements, scientists suggest

But the speed of movement is even slower than glaciers usually display, never mind rivers.

And whether water really is transported right across the region in this way is disputed by Jorge Figueiredo, a geologist with Petrobras.

"First of all, the word 'river' should be burned from the work - it's not a river whatsoever," he told BBC News.

Water and other fluids could indeed flow through the porous sedimentary rock, he said, but would be unlikely to reach the Atlantic Ocean because the sedimentary basins containing the porous rock were separated by older rock deposits that would form an impermeable barrier.

"But the main problem is that at depths of 4,000m, there is no possibility that we have fresh water - we have direct data that this water is saline," said Dr Figueiredo.

"My colleagues and I think this work is very arguable - we have a high level of criticism." End of the affair?

Press reports suggested Professor Hamza was optimistic about confirming his results over the next few years using more direct methods.

But, he said, this was not the case.

"It is well known that geothermal methods are better suited for determining flows with [such small] velocities," he said.

"At lower velocities, experimental techniques may pose considerable difficulties."

It may be possible to examine directly sediments transported into the Atlantic by the subterranean flow, he said, noting that a zone of relatively fresh water extends into the ocean near the mouth of the Amazon.

The research - Indications of an Underground "River" beneath the Amazon River: Inferences from Results of Geothermal Studies - was presented at the 12th International Congress of the Brazilian Geophysical Society in Rio de Janeiro, and has not been published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal.

The team has named the underground flow the "Hamza River".

Tatarewicz  posted on  2011-08-30   2:04:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Tatarewicz (#3) (Edited)

"We have used the term 'river' in a more generic sense than the popular notion," he said.

Oh I get it now: He's a marketing asshole who lied to get a headline.

Hamza Flow just doesn't have quite the same ring. People see that headline, go "WTF is that?" and skip it.

Anti-racist Libertarians are just Marxists who don't want to wait for the state to wither away.

Prefrontal Vortex  posted on  2011-08-30   10:50:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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