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Title: Penn and Teller - The bible is bullshit
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URL Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy7ScuVhDvs&feature=player_embedded
Published: Nov 05, 2007
Author: Penn and Teller
Post Date: 2011-08-28 22:14:51 by Flintlock
Keywords: None
Views: 1333
Comments: 79
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#23. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#21)
"Good info, but with some major errors: The 'Crown' that owns Virginia (USA) is the administrative corporation of the City of London, an State independent of Great Britain and wholly owned by the Pontiff of Rome. Since 1213, the Monarchs of England have been puppet Monarchs under the Pontifex Maximus of the Holy Roman Empire, a corporate body over which the pontiff of Rome is CEO. Since 1300, when the Crown of Great Britain (England) was made a sub-corporation of the Crown of the City of London, the Monarchs of England, as CEO of the Crown of Great Britain have been agents for the Crown of the City. Thus, the real Crown was obfuscated from the eyes of the 'colonials'. But, anyone who cared to look and reason could have seen this scheme even in the late AD 1700s. The 'common law' of England, since the incorporation of the British Crown around AD 1300, has been Roman Municipal Law, a type of Roman civil law designed to rule over debtor States. The Anglo-Saxon common law, which used only 'God's Law', ceased to exist with the implementation of the feudal system where all people were subjects of the corporate Crown, and after the Pope's Papal Bull, Unam Sanctam 1302 where he declared: "Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff." Subject means slave, as does 'citizen' and 'freeman'. Roman Law uses the law of the sea because all human institutions in the Roman system are make-believe ships at sea (incorporated bodies). The 'all caps' spelling does not make the 'legal identity name" (strawman). It is where the family name has been converted into a 'surname - primary name'. The all caps only signifies that the name carries with its use the status of slave pledged as chattel in bankruptcy of the State. " ----------------- ".... "Jonathan Williams recorded in his LEGIONS OF SATAN, 1781, that Cornwallis revealed to Washington that, "A holy war will now begin on America, and when it is ended America will be supposedly the citadel of freedom, but her millions will unknowingly be loyal subjects to the Crown." "Cornwallis went on to explain what would seem to be a self contradiction "Your churches will be used to teach the Jew's religion [leaven of the Pharisees] and in less than two hundred years the whole nation will be working for divine world government. That government that they believe to be divine will be the British Empire. All religions will be permeated with Judaism without even being noticed by the masses, and they will all be under the invisible all-seeing eye of the Grand Architect of Freemasonry." ..... www.sweetliberty.org/pers...e/jewishpersecution19.htm Genesis 15:13And he [God] said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; 14And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance. Galatians 3:16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. 18For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. ...... 26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. kingjbible.com/galatians/3.htm / bible.cc/galatians/3-29.htm
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
well, here's the good news for Christians America is the Promised Land [Ezekiel 34/John 10/ edit bible.cc/2_samuel/7-10.htm ] for Christians....and here is what the Bible says about Christianity perishing. The gates of hell shall not prevail against the church bible.cc/matthew/16-18.htm / The Church Is Israel Now bible.cc/matthew/16-18.htm / edit bible.cc/2_samuel/7-10.htm Isaiah 60:12For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted. bible.cc/isaiah/60-12.htm / http://kingjbible.com/isaiah/60.htm See Genesis 3:15.
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
Excellent and difficult question. I've thought about this very subject for some time. I am quite uncomfortable with atheism, as well as biblical fundamentalists, they both to me seem so sure of themselves, and that is what pulls at my curiosity. I have come to the tentative conclusion, subject to re-interpretation, that there is truth in the bible, some of the stories are possible, most are allegorical. It is up to us to use our minds, to apply the truths to our most interesting times.
You sound like the people who occasionally knocked on my door or pestered me in mall parking lots trying to give me a pamphlet.
"You'll just sing about Jesus and drink wine all day. It's great to be an American" - Sail Away by Randy Newman
You mean Mormons? Not I. "...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
Would you consider yourself Christian Identity?
that's my conclusion as well...
Them too No, I'm talking about people who say something like , "I have good news", then try to hit me with the heysus sales pitch. I run them off by pointing my finger and (in my best Berserker voice) proclaim, "Fool!, ODIN!!! will crush you!... or something like that. It never fails, and I really enjoy watching'em freak out then scurry away in search of their next victim. How can you expect anyone to take christyinsanity seriously when you have literally thousand of different sects, using dozens of different translations of your bible, all having different visions of "god's" will and ALL claiming to be the one true path to "salvation"? You do know you all can't be right don't you? Your doctrine is hopelessly flawed, overly complex and subject to interpretation for it's adherents and certainly not the product of omnipotent, divine intelligence. In short, it can't be right, and your god can't be God.
"You'll just sing about Jesus and drink wine all day. It's great to be an American" - Sail Away by Randy Newman
that's the main point made in this presentation. i don't care for this presentation. it makes me cringe. otoh, it raises questions that i have always had.
what about Jonah and the whale?
Just what the world needs, a couple more moronic heathens.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein
The Bible said that God "prepared" the creature, so in doing so I'm sure he protected Jonah. "Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights" This is a literal account of a man. It foreshadows the true account of Christ's 3 days and 3 nights in "the belly of the earth". "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." Matthew 12:40 (NIV) Here is the same verse again in the King James version "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." Matthew 12:40 (KJV) The historical accuracy of Jonah is important for it foreshadows Christ’s own death and resurrection. Christ would not associate the most important event in history (his being raised from the dead) with a mere fairy tale. The whale is not the hero of the story, nor is the cross victorious over the power of Christ. Our attention should be drawn to what happened next, the bodily resurrection from death to life. The book of Jonah is about God and Jonah, not the whale (or fish) and Jonah. Those who scoff at, doubt or otherwise ridicule the book of Jonah are in actuality doubting Christ's own integrity. Jesus believed and taught that Jonah was a real person, and that the events described in the Bible really did happen to him. I believe the account of Jonah as literal history, but more importantly Christ believed it. The story is not a parable or a dream but rather an accurate depiction of a real encounter. If you doubt the book of Jonah, or any of the Bible you will not be able to defend your faith with authority. Christ read with authority not as the scribes. In the Book of Jonah, God shows his mercy and also his authority as Creator over all living creatures. The Bible tells us that "God prepared the fish" and "the Lord spoke unto the fish..." and the animal obeyed God. In the end, even though Jonah disobeyed his commands, God spared Jonah's life. And in the beautiful language of the "King James Bible" the whale "vomited out Jonah upon the dry land" For those seeking extra-biblical evidence, there are many well documented accounts of men and animals being swallowed alive by whales. Though these accounts do give the story of Jonah more credibility we must remember to trust the Bible first and foremost. It does not matter if other recorded accounts exist or not. They are irrelevant as the Bible says it happened and Jesus has shown us that we can trust God's word. Jonah is also mentioned in Luke 11:30. "As the crowds increased, Jesus said, "This is a wicked generation. It asks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah. (30)For as Jonah was a sign to the Ninevites, so also will the Son of Man be to this generation. (31)The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with the men of this generation and condemn them; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon's wisdom, and now one [9] greater than Solomon is here. (32)The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now one greater than Jonah is here." Luke 11:30-32
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein
NO!!!! See Galatians 3:28, 29, above. and Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Romans 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. 8That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed. Matthew 3:9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. Romans 4:13 It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. http://kingjbible.com/romans/9.htm Now we [note. Christians, by faith in Jesus Christ], brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. bible.cc/galatians/4-28.htm Galatians 4:21Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. 28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. 30Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free. http://kingjbible.com/galatians/4.htm An example of the TRUE ISRAEL people: Jeremaiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil. bible.cc/jeremiah/13-23.htm Isaiah 56:3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree. bible.cc/isaiah/56-3.htm 4For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; 5Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. 6Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my {NEW!!!} covenant; 7Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. 8The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him. .... bible.cc/isaiah/56-7.htm [for this verse see also Isaiah 49:6 bible.cc/isaiah/49-6.htm ] Now see the New Testament Galatians 3 says if you have put on Christ, you are His seed and heirs to the promise. In Acts 8 the "ANGEL OF THE LORD" [often in the Bible this is Christ, Himself] told Philip to go speak to the eunuch from Ethiopia [IOW he was BLACK], and the Eunuch confessed faith in Christ, was baptized, and he, the black man, became THE SEED OF CHRIST, born into the House of Israel by adoption through his faith. [Galatians 3:26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.] Acts 8:26And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert. 27And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship, 28Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet. 29Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. 30And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? 31And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him. 32The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth: 33In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth. 34And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? 35Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. [See Isaiah 53:10! Isaiah 53 is the book the eunuch was referring to. Isaiah 53 is one of many prophecies about Christ. bible.cc/isaiah/53-10.htm / http://kingjbible.com/isaiah/53.htm ] 38And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. 39And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. 40But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea. http://kingjbible.com/acts/8.htm Note this was sealed with a miracle....thus was God's promise fulfilled to not only the eunuch that caught hold of His covenant, but a BLACK eunuch at that. See Revelation 5:9-10 I'm sure this will disappoint some people here, but that's their problem, not God's. God/Jesus spoke in parables so that His adversaries would be blinded. The Bible is like a puzzle and you have to connect the dots. The promise is by FAITH, NOT RACE. Christian Identity is an offshoot of Judeo British Israelism....it's a trap.
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
Nietszsche mistook Germanized Christianity for Christianity per se. Christianity was majority-white when he wrote. Christianity may have come into the world to lighten the heart, but Paul popularized it as a weapon against Rome. That more or less worked, but took another turn as Christianity became Germanized -- Christians started bathing again and continued living -- compromising with the world in order to prosper. Everything whites like about Christianity came from whites. But Christianity will soon be majority non-white, which will force the issue, heightening the cognitive dissonance of white "Christians". That means Christianity will become unimportant. But it will survive. It will survive in Asia and Africa. Asia has a conscience that can be burdened, but places less emphasis on conscience. Africa has no conscience. Either anti-racist/anti-white "Christianity" perishes among whites, or the white man perishes.
Anti-racist Libertarians are just Marxists who don't want to wait for the state to wither away.
your Odin, as i told you once before, is probably derived from the tribe of Dan and his days are numbered. Amos 8:11Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: 12And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it. 13In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst. 14They that swear by the sin of Samaria, and say, Thy god, O Dan, [ODIN??? Hebrew had no vowels, so when you see dan, den, din, don, dun, dyn in a word, you might be looking at something connected to that apostate tribe, one of whom blasphemed the name of the Lord] liveth; and, The manner of Beersheba liveth; even they shall fall, and never rise up again. How can you expect anyone to take christyinsanity seriously when you have literally thousand of different sects, using dozens of different translations of your bible, all having different visions of "god's" will and ALL claiming to be the one true path to "salvation"? Didn't Jesus say the church in His kingdom [mustard seed] would be filled with the leaven of the Pharisees. Didn't Cornwallis say the same thing to George Washington? See the B'nai B'rith speech at my tagline...the Jews ADMIT infiltrating our church....and once again: "... "Jonathan Williams recorded in his LEGIONS OF SATAN, 1781, that Cornwallis revealed to Washington that "a holy war will now begin on America, and when it is ended America will be supposedly the citadel of freedom, but her millions will unknowingly be loyal subjects to the Crown." Cornwallis went on to explain what would seem to be a self contradiction: "Your churches will be used to teach the Jew's religion and in less than two hundred years the whole nation will be working for divine world government. That government that they believe to be divine will be the British Empire. All religions will be permeated with Judaism without even being noticed by the masses, and they will all be under the invisible all-seeing eye of the Grand Architect of Freemasonry." And indeed George Washington himself was a Mason, and he gave back through a false religion what he had won with his army. "Cornwallis well knew that his military defeat was only the beginning of world catastrophe that would be universal and that unrest would continue until mind control could be accomplished through a false religion. What he predicted has come to pass. A brief sketch of American religious history and we have seen Masonry infused into every church in America With their veiled Phallic religion. "Darby and the Plymouth Brethren brought a Jewish Christianity to America. Masons Rutherford and Russell started Jehovah Witnesses' Judaism which is now worldwide with their message of the divine kingdom. Mason Joseph Smith started Mormon Judaism with its Jewish teaching of millennialism. "At the turn of the twentieth century there appeared the Scofield Bible with a Jewish interpretation of the prophecies. With wide use of this "helpful" aid all the American churches have silently become synagogues. We now have Baptist Jews, Methodist Jews, Church of God Jews, apostate Catholic Jews, and many Protestant Jews throughout America. We are aliens in our own country because of false religion. All are praying for divine deliverance into that "Divine Government" which Cornwallis knew to be the British Empire. "A false religion has been used to deceive us into allegiance to our enemies of Yorktown and Bunker Hill. No! Not a gun has been fired but the invisible and malignant process of conquering America with the Jew's religion has gone on unabated. The Union Jack has been planted in our hearts with religious deception. All has happened "legally," "constitutionally," "freely" and completely within our most sacred trust -- our churches. Religious deception is painless innoculation against truth. It cannot be removed from the conscience with surgery, yet it is the motivator of our actions and directly controls our lives. Once man gives over to false religion, he is no longer rational because he originates no thought. His life is controlled by whomever controls his religion. "The veil of false religion is the sword of Damocles and its power to control humanity defies even the imagination of tyrants who use it." .... www.sweetliberty.org/issu...ax/unionjack_epilogue.htm That was not GOD's plan: John 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. kingjbible.com/john/17.htm ...all part of the New Covenant: Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD [ see bible.cc/2_kings/17-28.htm most likely one of the calf-worshipping priests]: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. kingjbible.com/jeremiah/31.htm All the different doctrines was the adversaries' plan...divide and conquer....all part of the battle that began in Genesis 3:15. your god can't be God. I'd say the probabilities are astronomical that the prophecies made thousands of years ago would not come to pass, unless of course He IS God....and it should be clear to anyone that has eyes to see and ears to hear that the prophecies ARE coming to pass.
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
by Dr. Lorraine Day: www.takebackourrights.org/docs/noahidelaw.html and Congressman Dannemeyer: www.takebackourrights.org...ristians-full%20page.html for further understanding.] should read " Now the Government Can Legally Kill CHRISTIANS" although it can be applied to anyone who doesn't want to go along with the program.
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
scoff at or ridicule, i get. what i don't get is why it's wrong to doubt or question when it is sage and prudent to do this with all other search for information in life. why is belief in the bible the one exception? how does one come to truth and conviction without first doing his/her own search and interrogatory?
First, I'll repeat for the Nth time, I don't actually believe ODIN!!! is God, but I sure don't believe in heysus either. You say ODIN!!! = "Danny", tribe of dan, or something from any Abrahamic religion. There are many different spellings of ODIN!!!. Other spellings include: Woden, Wodanaz,Wotan and probably more. ODIN!!! is related to the Roman God Mercury and has nothing to do with anything Abrahamic. BTW Is it possible for you to try to make a point without posting a cyber-pamphlet?
"You'll just sing about Jesus and drink wine all day. It's great to be an American" - Sail Away by Randy Newman
You'll never make it as a Nun. Have you ever considered being a mead server in Valhalla? The tips are great and you meet interesting people.
"You'll just sing about Jesus and drink wine all day. It's great to be an American" - Sail Away by Randy Newman
I think all people have doubts. Even one of the Lord's disciples (Thomas) had doubts.* I think that belief in the Bible is based on faith. I had an old man ask me once long ago if I believed that the Bible was true, that it was all true. And I told him that I did--I also was quick to say that I didn't understand all of it but I believed it. I explained that we needed something to base our lives on, something we could believe in. And if I just accepted some things in it while doubting things that maybe I wish weren't there I might just as well throw it all off over the bank. John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed. For those with faith, no explanation is necessary. For those without, no explanation is possible. –Thomas Aquinas Faith is not belief without proof, but trust without reservations. --Elton Trueblood Faith is different from proof; the latter is human, the former is a Gift from God. --Blaise Pascal God isn't looking for people of great faith, but for individuals ready to follow Him --Hudson Taylor We often think of great faith as something that happens spontaneously so that we can be used for a miracle or healing. However, the greatest faith of all, and the most effective, is to live day by day trusting Him. It is trusting Him so much that we look at every problem as an opportunity to see His work in our life. --Rick Joyner I believe though I do not comprehend, and I hold by faith what I cannot grasp with the mind. --Saint Bernard
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein
I've seen that many times, where a person uses a quote from the bible to prove that the bible is 100% true. I'd wager that most of the New Testament was written by Roman authors, and is NOT the words of the original disciples. In fact, it's pretty well understood that the very book you quote from, "John", was NOT written by the DISCIPLE John, but by someone who later used that name as a pen name, years AFTER the death of the disciple John if such a person even really existed. The Old Testament is simply a collection of tales spun by "scribes" upon the orders of Hebrew kings, except for perhaps parts of Genesis which are based upon earlier legends from earlier civilizations. Beyond that, it's obvious (to me at least) that there ARE higher orders of intelligence within our universe and that which exists outside it. No human here on earth knows what exists beyond science, other than what can be found spiritually. Spirituality isn't realized by memorizing a book of words written by men, it's something that can only be found via a honest and true search for God. That's just my humble opinion at least.
Which, of course, you are entitled to. I don't happen to share it, at least not most of it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein
That's just my humble opinion at least. Well said and worth repeating. Most of the "faithful" have never truly examined their beliefs and only believe because it was drilled into their heads since childhood.
"You'll just sing about Jesus and drink wine all day. It's great to be an American" - Sail Away by Randy Newman
scoff at or ridicule, i get. what i don't get is why it's wrong to doubt or question when it is sage and prudent to do this with all other search for information in life. why is belief in the bible the one exception? how does one come to truth and conviction without first doing his/her own search and interrogatory? That was a debate I had with my friend the late Reverend Bob Cryder (how I miss his wisdom - even though we did not always agree). What we did agree upon was that the stories and laws handed down in the Bible were meant to be understood not robotically mouthed. If one acts and believes devoid of the reason we were given then we are not living up to the standards expected. All of the primary laws of the Bible can be justified and understood purely by reason and without having to resort to arbitrary dictat - "thou shalt believe now shut thine pie hole." Examples might be: "thou shalt not commit murder," "thou shalt not commit adultery." In the first example we are obviously cutting the common bond and infringing upon the rights of another, and in the second we are sundering trust (among other things). As for the stories in the Bible it is hard to say on a lot, and here I am a bit of a heretic - if not in spirit then intellectually, in that, particularly the "Old Testament" appears to have been derived from even older works that were kept in the libraries of Egypt. The actual age of the "Old Testament" is very uncertain, and neither is it certain that it has been transmitted accurately through the ages. So, I am careful in my pronouncements both from not wishing to offend others, and simply because we do not know. There is perhaps the greatest mystery of the Bible - Where did it come from, and when?
You forgot to ad: "and fork over the cash."
"You'll just sing about Jesus and drink wine all day. It's great to be an American" - Sail Away by Randy Newman
thank you. certainly some thought provoking quotes there. though, at this point in time, i am unable to have faith without reservations especially since i know that the bible was written, ordered by, decreed, edited(?), and translated by some very unscrupulous men. but, i do try to keep an open mind and an open heart.
i can relate to that.
Thank you. And I appreciate your getting out the word, and message, of our savior. It's NOT a religion...it's a relationship and only those in the relationship can understand this.
that's my conclusion as well... You mean to tell me all this time, you have known my answer?! Do you have any idea how many meaningless arguments I've had with myself?! Arghhhhh ;) We are not alone :)
The Romans may have been of the Tribe of Dan..... follow the eagle.... Eagles And Bees? Dan and "...The Eagle Identity It is also worth noting that the ensign of Israel's enemies always seems to be that of an eagle: Herod, the Romans, the Germans, the Czars, et al. (It is interesting that even Sparta and Troy may have links with the Tribe of Dan!12) [see http://hope-of-israel.org.nz/i000035a.htm ] It disturbs some to note that the symbol of the United States is also, of course, the eagle. The apparent Masonic symbolism on the Great Seal of the United States also disturbs many (look at your dollar bill and consult these images: 1,2,3,4): The 32 feathers of the right wing are said to represent the 32 degrees of the Freemasonry. The 33 feathers on the left wing include the honorary 33rd degree of the Scottish Rite. The nine tail feathers are said to highlight the Council of Nine when the Illuminati merged with the Freemasons on May 1, 1776. The ostensible occultic significance seems even more pronounced on the reverse side: the All Seeing Eye (the "Open Eye" of Egypt and the "Mind's Eye" of the Gnostics) and the Latin phrases "Annuit Coeptis" (announcing the birth of) "Novus Ordo Seclorum" (New World Order). The occult agenda behind world politics should surprise no serious student of Daniel Chapter 10. Satan seems to love symbols. More Surprises Coming? Did you know that there appears to be a 151 ft. statue of Mary Magdalene, dressed in a Roman toga, holding the "Holy Grail" as a torch, in one of the most prominent international harbors today? Designed by Auguste Bartholdi, it was privately funded by the French Freemasons and presently adorns New York Harbor. ...." http://www.everlastinglifeministries.com/davinci/davinci4.asp ======= 1. Take note of these ensigns, as they will play a significant part in the coming desolation of the Temple. Matthew 24:28 - 'For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.' http://www.preteristarchive.com/..._V,_Chapter_II,_Section_1 Look familiar? You see it in the 501c churches every day: apfn.org/apfn/flag.htm see the eagle at Ezekiel 17:7-10 and on the US Great Seal http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/E...m/satan_on_our_dollar.htm Ezekiel 17:1-6/John 15:1-2/Matthew 15:13
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
you're welcome and thank YOU!
"...as long as there..remain active enemies of the Christian church, we may hope to become Master of the World...the future Jewish King will never reign in the world before Christianity is overthrown - B'nai B'rith speech http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/luther.htm / http://bible.cc/psalms/83-4.htm
You forgot to ad: "and fork over the cash." Priestly operations have always been big on cash. Some ask honestly and for the right reasons, and some do not. Churches, and other religious institutions need operating money just as any other organization does. Some, Monasteries come to mind, support themselves e.g., "The Christian Brothers", and the Trappist Monks who produce the legendary Chimay Ale. Other Monasteries produce cheeses and other such necessary treats. Quite often they are the best of their kind. People are turned away though through the greed and hypocrisy of some supposed "men of God". However, to generalize and condemn ALL for the actions of SOME is both unjust and a logical fallacy. The reality is that SOME men of God are in fact Men of God. Some aren't e.g., Haggee, Grabham, Jim 'n Tammy, etc., ...
The first five books of the O.T. IS THE TALMUD, which was the oral law of the Jews. There was many a slip between tongue and lip I suspect, as oral law passed into the first five written books of the O.T.
It is vital to understand that there is no truth without discernment and no wisdom without the truth. What then is “faith” but an effort to confound truth and wisdom?
No it isn't. The first five books of the Old Testament is the Torah. The Talmud is written record of the traditions of men (Rabbis) that does not in any way come from God. It would be helpful if you knew what you were commenting about before making a comment.
God is always good!
but, i do try to keep an open mind and an open heart. Oh, you're welcome. There are people you could talk to who know far more than I do and could explain things much better than I can. The following paragraphs are excerpts from: Steps to Christ (chapter 11) WHAT TO DO WITH DOUBT To acknowledge that we cannot fully comprehend the great truths of the Bible is only to admit that the finite mind is inadequate to grasp the infinite; that man, with his limited, human knowledge, cannot understand the purposes of Omniscience. Because they cannot fathom all its mysteries, the skeptic and the infidel reject God's word; and not all who profess to believe the Bible are free from danger on this point. The apostle says, "Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God."* It is right to study closely the teachings of the Bible, and to search into "the deep things of God,"* so far as they are revealed in Scripture. While "the secret things belong unto the Lord our God," "those things which are revealed belong unto us."* But it is Satan's work to pervert the investigative powers of the mind. A certain pride is mingled with the consideration of Bible truth, so that men feel impatient and defeated if they cannot explain every portion of Scripture to their satisfaction. It is too humiliating to them to acknowledge that they do not understand the inspired words. They are unwilling to wait patiently until God shall see fit to reveal the truth to them. They feel that their unaided human wisdom is sufficient to enable them to comprehend the Scripture, and failing to do this, they virtually deny its authority. It is true that many theories and doctrines popularly supposed to be derived from the Bible have no foundation in its teaching, and indeed are contrary to the whole tenor of inspiration. These things have been a cause of doubt and perplexity to many minds. They are not, however, chargeable to God's word, but to man's perversion of it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein
No it isn't. The first five books of the Old Testament is the Torah. The Talmud is written record of the traditions of men (Rabbis) that does not in any way come from God. It would be helpful if you knew what you were commenting about before making a comment. R is correct here. The Talmud means "commentaries", and there are two main versions. Is is a body of Jewish law, codified about 750 ad, and is considered by Orthodox followers are being superior to the Torah, and is, I believe, considered to be scripture, and when scripture is mentioned in the bible, I believe the Talmud is included in the definition of the word. R I would like your thoughts on this, is this your understanding? Or have you even thought about it. Seperately, what do you think of the evidence linking the Vedic Brahama God, with his consort Sarah, to be the same as Abraham and his wife Sarah?? That the Jewish religion has its roots in the ancient vedic religion. There are a LOT of commonalities in the OT and some of the vedic scriptures, which were written long before the OT was penned.
Forgive me or praise me for confusing the two. I am not a Jew. It appears from the above that the Torah is the oral tradition and the Talmud is the written compilation of the oral law, which became the first five books of the O.T. The fact that The Talmud is written record of the traditions of men (Rabbis) that does not in any way come from God, is the very point that I was making in my comment. I knew exactly what I was commenting about and you have only clarified the point that the O.T. is the written record of the oral laws of the Jews, and does not in any way come from God. If you don't like the message, don't insult the messenger.
It is vital to understand that there is no truth without discernment and no wisdom without the truth. What then is “faith” but an effort to confound truth and wisdom?
Can the created comprehend their Creator? No.
Good points all. When it comes to refuting the Bible P&T lean heavily on science. But when it comes to their belief in the official, ever changing 9/11 story it becomes a matter of faith and science "don't mean jack doodly"....
No. Indeed not. That is one of the reasons why it is so sad to see people worship things that they can make with their own hands.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein
Wrong again. The Torah comes directly from the prophets and was written by them as instructed by God almighty, nothing oral about it other than God inspiring them what to write. The Talmud on the other hand comes from the oral comments from Rabbis that was passed down generation to generation and became the traditions of men which was finally written down as the Talmud. The Talmud in no way comes from God while the Torah comes directly from God.
God is always good!
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestAll the Presidents are related to the British monarchy and they are in collusion with The Crown [ conspiracyrealitytv.com/u...mpany-owned-by-the-crown/ / Genesis 15:13-14/Galatians 3:16,17...28,29] in bringing us the NWO religion called [Judeo] British Israel [ bible.cc/matthew/13-33.htm / bible.cc/matthew/16-6.htm ] as seen here: www.asis.com/users/stag/uspres.html
#24. To: Flintlock (#22)
(Edited)
Christianity came into existence in order to lighten the heart; but now it has first to burden the heart so as afterwards to be able to lighten it. Consequently it shall perish. -- Friedrich Nietzsche, Human, all too Human, page 119,
#25. To: wudidiz (#9)
are the stories .... factual (or possible?) or are they allegories?
#26. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#24)
here's the good news for Christians
#27. To: Flintlock (#26)
#28. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#27)
#29. To: Lysander_Spooner (#25)
I have come to the tentative conclusion, subject to re-interpretation, that there is truth in the bible, some of the stories are possible, most are allegorical.
#30. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#27)
You mean Mormons?
#31. To: Original_Intent (#12)
What makes it tricky is that we have no other good contemporaneous works to truly support or refute those events.
#32. To: Original_Intent (#12)
(Edited)
#33. To: Original_Intent (#1)
Penn and Teller are Bullshit.
#34. To: christine (#32)
what about Jonah and the whale?
#35. To: Freedomsnotfree (#28)
(Edited)
Would you consider yourself Christian Identity?
#36. To: Flintlock (#22)
Christianity came into existence in order to lighten the heart; but now it has first to burden the heart so as afterwards to be able to lighten it. Consequently it shall perish. -- Friedrich Nietzsche, Human, all too Human, page 119
#37. To: Flintlock (#30)
(Edited)
#38. To: TheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#19)
and Now the Government Can Legally Kill Americans
#39. To: James Deffenbach (#34)
Those who scoff at, doubt or otherwise ridicule the book of Jonah are in actuality doubting Christ's own integrity.
#40. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#37)
#41. To: christine (#39)
why is belief in the bible the one exception? how does one come to truth and conviction without first doing his/her own search and interrogatory?
#42. To: christine (#39)
(Edited)
#43. To: James Deffenbach, christine (#42)
John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#44. To: FormerLurker (#43)
That's just my humble opinion at least.
#45. To: FormerLurker (#43)
Beyond that, it's obvious (to me at least) that there ARE higher orders of intelligence within our universe and that which exists outside it. No human here on earth knows what exists beyond science, other than what can be found spiritually. Spirituality isn't realized by memorizing a book of words written by men, it's something that can only be found via a honest and true search for God.
#46. To: christine, James Deffenbach (#39)
Those who scoff at, doubt or otherwise ridicule the book of Jonah are in actuality doubting Christ's own integrity.
#47. To: Original_Intent (#46)
"thou shalt believe now shut thine pie hole"
#48. To: James Deffenbach (#42)
(Edited)
#49. To: Original_Intent (#46)
So, I am careful in my pronouncements both from not wishing to offend others, and simply because we do not know.
#50. To: AllTheKings'HorsesWontDoIt (#35)
#51. To: christine (#29)
I have come to the tentative conclusion, subject to re-interpretation, that there is truth in the bible, some of the stories are possible, most are allegorical.
#52. To: Flintlock (#40)
(Edited)
ODIN!!! is related to the Roman God Mercury and has nothing to do with anything Abrahamic.
by Chuck Missler 
#53. To: Freedomsnotfree (#50)
#54. To: Flintlock (#47)
"thou shalt believe now shut thine pie hole"
#55. To: RickyJ (#16)
How far would an act entitled "The Talmud is BS" go?
#56. To: angK (#55)
The first five books of the O.T. IS THE TALMUD
#57. To: christine (#48)
thank you. certainly some thought provoking quotes there. though, at this point in time, i am unable to have faith without reservations especially since i know that the bible was written, ordered by, decreed, edited(?), and translated by some very unscrupulous men.
#58. To: RickyJ, angK (#56)
The first five books of the O.T. IS THE TALMUD
"Satan / Cheney in "08" 
#59. To: RickyJ (#56)
The Talmud is not a book in itself- it is a compilation of the Mishnah (oral law) and the gemorrah (rabbinical commentaries). Now, another name for the Mishnah is the Torah she 'b'peh- the Torah handed down by mouth, and its tranmsmission is recorded as followed in Pirkei Avot (Ethics of the Fathers) also known in the Mishnah as meschta Avot:
#60. To: James Deffenbach (#57)
To acknowledge that we cannot fully comprehend the great truths of the Bible is only to admit that the finite mind is inadequate to grasp the infinite; that man, with his limited, human knowledge, cannot understand the purposes of Omniscience.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#61. To: christine (#7)
i would like to see a disputation (refutation?) of what P&T presented in this video. are the stories in the OT of Adam and Eve, Noah's ark, and Moses parting the Red Sea factual (or possible?) or are they allegories?
#62. To: tom007 (#60)
Can the created comprehend their Creator?
#63. To: angK (#59)
It appears from the above that the Torah is the oral tradition and the Talmud is the written compilation of the oral law, which became the first five books of the O.T.
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