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9/11
See other 9/11 Articles

Title: Flight 77 did NOT hit the Pentagon [Some New Stuff in Here]
Source: The Ugly Truth
URL Source: http://theuglytruth.wordpress.com/2 ... t-77-did-not-hit-the-pentagon/
Published: Sep 1, 2011
Author: N/A
Post Date: 2011-09-01 10:15:18 by Eric Stratton
Keywords: None
Views: 3238
Comments: 135

Flight 77 did NOT hit the Pentagon

Posted: August 31, 2011 by crescentandcross in Uncategorized

5

http://mrfriendsblog.blogspot.com
The official government and media conspiracy theory says that American Airlines Flight 77 was hijacked by 5 fanatical Islamic terrorists on 9/11, and flown into the Pentagon, killing all 64 people on board along with 125 people in the Pentagon. From Wikipedia:

American Airlines Flight 77 was American Airlines' morning, daily scheduled transcontinental flight, from Washington Dulles International Airport, in Dulles, Virginia to Los Angeles International Airport in Los Angeles, California. On September 11, 2001, the aircraft flying this route—a Boeing 757-223—was hijacked by five al-Qaeda terrorists and deliberately crashed into the Pentagon, as part of the September 11 attacks.

Less than 35 minutes into the flight, the hijackers stormed the cockpit and forced the passengers to the rear of the aircraft. Hani Hanjour, one of the hijackers who was trained as a pilot, assumed control of the flight. Unknown to the hijackers, passengers aboard were able to make telephone calls to loved ones and relay information on the hijacking.

The aircraft crashed into the western side of the Pentagon at 09:37 EDT. All 64 people on board the aircraft, including the hijackers, were killed, as were 125 people in the building. Dozens of people witnessed the crash and news sources began reporting on the incident within minutes. The impact severely damaged an area of the Pentagon and ignited a large fire. A portion of the Pentagon collapsed; firefighters spent days trying to fully extinguish the blaze. The damaged sections of the Pentagon were rebuilt in 2002, with occupants moving back into the completed areas on August 15, 2002.

The 184 victims of the attack are memorialized in the Pentagon Memorial adjacent to the Pentagon. The 1.93-acre (7,800 m2) park contains a bench for each of the victims, arranged according to their year of birth, ranging from 1930 (aged 71) to 1998 (aged 3).

Upon further investigation, there is no evidence to support any of these claims. For starters, let's have a listen to what CNN Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre had to say about what happened at the Pentagon on 9/11:

From my close-up inspection, there's no evidence of a plane having crashed anywhere near the Pentagon.

The only site, is the actual side of the building that's crashed in. And as I said, the only pieces left that you can see are small enough that you pick up in your hand. There are no large tail sections, wing sections, fuselage, nothing like that anywhere around which would indicate that the entire plane crashed into the side of the Pentagon and then caused the side to collapse.

Even though if you look at the pictures of the Pentagon you see that the floors have all collapsed, that didn't happen immediately. It wasn't until almost about 45 minutes later that the structure was weakened enough that all of the floors collapsed.

After the U.S. Justice Department released the rather pathetic photos supposedly showing Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon, Jamie McIntrye had a change of heart:
McIntrye's rather Orwellian about face should not surprise anyone. 9/11 was a hectic day, and not everyone had their script in front of them, including McIntyre. After all, it's been common knowledge for years

now that the CIA has completely infiltrated the major corporate-owned media in this country, and that Pentagon psychological warfare specialists have conducted major operations via the corporate-owned media, including operations directed at the American public. Former CIA director William Colby has been quoted as saying, "The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media." Below, Amy Goodman of Democracy Now, a major leftist limited hangout/disinformation outlet which refuses to address the overwhelming, incontrovertible evidence proving 9/11 was an inside job, interviews Col. Sam Gardiner and Peter Hart, who have exposed the Pentagon's successful propaganda efforts in recent years using the major media of this country.

Criminal elements of the media clearly were and remain involved in the 9/11 deception and cover up.
In Enver Masud's "Pentagon Transcripts, Official Records Belie 56;The 9/11 Commission Report'," we learn:

I live less than a mile from the Pentagon, and began examining this issue in early 2002. The first question I asked when I looked at the Pentagon shortly after that tragic day in 2001 was, “where’s the plane?”

I began to suspect the official account of 9/11 when I learned that the U.S. war on Afghanistan was apparently planned prior to September 11, and possibly after U.S. negotiations with the Taliban for a pipeline broke down.

According to the BBC (September 18, 2001), Niaz Naik, a former Pakistani Foreign Secretary, was told by senior American officials in mid-July that military action against Afghanistan would go ahead by the middle of October. [...]

Writing in “9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out,” Kwiatowski noted, “a strange absence of airliner debris, there was no sign of the kind of damage to the Pentagon structure one would expect from the impact of a large airliner. This visible evidence or lack thereof may also have been apparent to the secretary of defense, who in an unfortunate slip of the tongue referred to the aircraft that slammed into the Pentagon as a ‘missile’.”

Pentagon employee April Gallop, whose “desk was roughly 40 feet from the point where the plane allegedly hit the outside wall” stated in a sworn complaint (before the U.S. District Court Southern District of New York):

“As she sat down to work there was an explosion, then another; walls collapsed and the ceiling fell in. Hit in the head, she was able to grab the baby and make her way towards the daylight showing through a blasted opening in the outside wall. There was no airplane wreckage and no burning airplane fuel anywhere; only rubble and dust.”

Barbara Honegger, military affairs journalist, reported in her personal capacity that a pilot sent by Gen Larry Arnold (NORAD) “reported back that there was no evidence that a plane had hit the building.” She added, “Multiple standard-issue, battery-operated wall clocks . . . stopped between 9:31 and 9:32-1/2 on September 11.” [...]

Masud emphasizes the importance of the September 12th and September 15th, 2001 Pentagon news briefings, and what they revealed:

At the September 12, 2001, Dept. of Defense (DoD) News Briefing by Assistant Secretary of Defense, Victoria Clarke, Ed Plaugher (fire chief of Arlington County), and others, “American Airlines”, “Flight 7783;, “Boeing 75783; were not even mentioned.

How significant is this?

With the world’s news media assembled at the Pentagon on the day after the alleged attack on the Pentagon by Arab hijackers flying American Airlines Flight 77 — a Boeing 757 — “American Airlines”, “Flight 7783;, “Boeing 75783; were not considered important enough to mention at the Pentagon News Briefing the day after the alleged attack!

Fire chief Ed Plaugher was asked by a reporter, “Is there anything left of the aircraft at all?” Plaugherresponded, “there are some small pieces of aircraft … there’s no fuselage sections and that sort of thing.”

When asked, “Chief, there are small pieces of the plane virtually all over, out over the highway, tiny pieces. Would you say the plane exploded, virtually exploded on impact due to the fuel”, Plaugher responded “You know, I’d rather not comment on that.” [...]

At the September 15, 2001, Dept. of Defense (DoD) News Briefing by Mr. Lee Evey, Pentagon Renovation Manager, Rear Adm. Craig R. Quigley, deputy assistant secretary of Defense for Public Affairs, and others, it was apparent that there were lingering doubts about what had struck the Pentagon on September 11.

When Mr. Evey said, “the nose of the aircraft broke through this innermost wall of C Ring”, a reporter asked, “One thing that’s confusing — if it came in the way you described, at an angle, why then are not the wings outside? I mean, the wings would have shorn off. The tail would have shorn off. And yet there’s apparently no evidence of the aircraft outside the E Ring.” Evey replied, “Actually, there’s considerable evidence of the aircraft outside the E Ring. It’s just not very visible.”

Apparently, no one asked how “the nose of the aircraft” (a relatively weak component of the aircraft) remained sufficiently intact to penetrate the C Ring — the E Ring is the outermost ring.

Dr. James Fetzer has explained in detail the fact that a Boeing 757, even piloted by an experienced and well-trained pilot (which was not the case with Hani Hanjour, the alleged Arab hijacker that flew Flight 77 into the Pentagon), could not possibly perform the feats described by the official government conspiracy theory:

The probability that a real Boeing 757 could have hit the Pentagon and not left debris from its wings and tail or even its engines-not to mention bodies, seats, and luggage-is zero. The probability that the alleged trajectory could have been flown in violation of the laws of aerodynamics is even less than zero-since violations of these laws is not physically possible. The probability that the trajectory, if it were possible, could have left a smooth, green, unblemished lawn is zero. The probability that debris would have been planted or that smoke would have been simulated, had this event involved the crash of a real Boeing 757, is likewise extremely low. That all of these things would have occurred if the alleged impact were contrived, however, is very high. Indeed, it is difficult to imagine any reasonable alternative. [...]

The conclusion that no Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon appears to have been established beyond a reasonable doubt.

It's been conclusively proven that in-flight phone calls were impossible in 2001. Why did Ted make up this story? Or, who told him to tell these lies? Where is Barbara now? Is it apparent to you by now that the media is a major part of the crime gang that pulled off 9/11? Are you aware that Zionist Jews with a particular agenda own most of the major corporate media and entertainment productions in this
country?

Are those incapable of contemplating the fact that the "hijackings", planes, videos, and many of the victims
on 9/11 were a major fraud, just like the rest of the official government conspiracy theory? It seems rather obvious to me that this is indeed the case.

We still don't know exactly what happened on 9/11, so it would be wise to keep an open mind about everything.

Click for Full Text!


Poster Comment:

I haven't seen a few of these data points. (1 image)

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#96. To: TwentyTwelve (#44)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters." ~ Ben Franklin

"For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it.” ~ Patrick Henry

Eric Stratton  posted on  2011-09-01   17:33:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: lead.and.lag (#91)
(Edited)

you dont know if it's impossible for a 757 to hit the pentagon, because nobody's ever tried it.

So since I've never tried to fly by jumping off a tall building and flapping my arms, I don't KNOW if I'll crash into the ground or not, eh? Maybe YOU don't know what would happen, but I'd take a wild guess and say MOST people would.

you have a record of being an idiot.

Based on what asshole? Your word? You've been here for two weeks and you think you know people's "record" here? Screw off.

what are we supposed to think? ...that you've, all of a sudden grown a brain?

Well if you're buckeroo, we all know that you never had one to begin with. If you're not, you're probably his inbred cousin or something.

is your supposed expertise in 757 aeorodynaics supposed to give you some boost in status, even though 757 aerodynamics are compeletely irrelevant when it comes to the pentagon, seeing as how it was most likely a missile that hit the pentagon?

How can you say it was a missile when you still cling to the idea it is POSSIBLE for a 757 to have flown into the building and done the damage that was observed? I don't claim any special expertise on any specific aircraft, I simply repeat KNOWN SCIENTIFIC FACTS which eliminate pretty much ANY large airliner as the aircraft which flew into the Pentagon. That said, it proves that Flight 77 did NOT hit the Pentagon that day, so the government is LYING, and many people have died as a result of that lie.

You are not here to discuss, you are here to stifle and disrupt, that much is obvious. That you CLAIM to be interested in the matter yet ridicule the messenger carrying the message of what did NOT occur that day, indicates you are part of problem.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2011-09-01   17:38:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: FormerLurker (#97) (Edited)

How can you say it was a missile when you still cling to the idea it is POSSIBLE for a 757 to have flown into the building

i can say it's possible because it's probably possible...although nobody but the government says it's been done.

in the meantime, it's perfectly obvious that you're beating a dead horse, because the government conspiracy theory is so out of whack that your theory is rrrelevant.

lead.and.lag  posted on  2011-09-01   17:44:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: FormerLurker (#93)

if it had been a simple explosion there would have been enough telltale signs indicating that is what it was.

According to April Gallop she saw no plane or missile but she did smell cordite and knew the smell of it from her training in the military.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2011-09-01   17:47:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: lead.and.lag (#98)

i can say it's possible because it's probably possible...although nobody but the government says it's been done.

No, it is not probable, it is HIGHLY improbable. Scientifically, it is impossible.

Show me a large airliner fly less than say 40 feet off the ground at 500 mph, then I might consider it possible. Till then, with science as my guide, I say it's not only highly improbable, it is impossible.

That's besides the fact the supposed pilot MOST LIKELY couldn't even fly into the Pentagon with a Cessna, never mind a 757.

in the meantime, it's perfectly obvious that you're beating a dead horse, and the official conspiracy theory is so out of whack that your theory is rrrelevant.

I began by simply defending my analysis, and ended up having to defend my SELF against YOU.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2011-09-01   17:53:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: RickyJ (#99)

According to April Gallop she saw no plane or missile but she did smell cordite and knew the smell of it from her training in the military.

I'm pretty sure they had some "insurance" that things went well for them, at minimum destroying the investigative records concerning that missing 2 trillion dollars. That they pulled the show off without a hitch was just an added benny for them.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2011-09-01   17:55:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: All (#99)

I'm out of here for now. I think we all agree 19 Arabs didn't do 9/11 and that it was a false flag to benefit Israel. I am not going to be quiet about this with those that still think it was 19 Muslims that attacked us anymore. I am through suffering quietly around idiots.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2011-09-01   17:56:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: FormerLurker (#100)

Scientifically, it is impossible.

you dont know that, i dont know that, nobody knows that, as far as i know, because nobody's tried it.

in the meantime, it's pretty obbvious that airliners, once in a while, get pretty close to the gound, isnt it?

lead.and.lag  posted on  2011-09-01   17:56:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: lead.and.lag, FormerLurker (#91)

you dont know if it's impossible for a 757 to hit the pentagon, because nobody's ever tried it.

http://www.lewisnews.com/article.asp?ID=106623

Former Vietnam Combat and Commercial Pilot Firm Believer 9/11 Was Inside Government Job Posted on: 7/17/2005 7:54:00 AM - Columnist By Greg Szymanski

There was no fooling former Air Force and commercial pilot Russ Wittenberg the morning of 9/11. He knew it was an inside job from the get-go, knowing the ‘big boys’ were up to the same dirty tricks they played in the Kennedy assassination and Pearl Harbor.

The government may have fooled millions of Americans with its cockamamie official story, but the former fighter pilot who flew over 100 combat missions in Vietnam and who sat for 35 years in the cockpit for Pan Am and United, wasn’t one of them.

Now, almost four years later, Wittenberg is still shaking his head in disbelief more than ever, saying the country he loved and fought so bravely 40 years ago has fallen in the deep, dark and sinister hands of fascist leaders who are quickly turning America into a military state.

Wittenberg claimed the high speed maneuver would have surely stalled the jetliner sending it into a nose dive, adding it was “totally impossible for an amateur who couldn’t even fly a Cessna to maneuver the jetliner in such a highly professional manner, something Wittenberg said he couldn’t do with 35 years of commercial jetliner experience.

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2011-09-01   17:58:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: RickyJ, FormerLurker (#99)

1) Charles Burlingame, Navy F4 Pilot, Participates in PROJECT MASCAL

2) He Retires And Gets A job Flying Commercial Jets

3) Less Than 12 Months Later, HE IS PILOTING THE PLANE that allegedly Crashes Into The Pentagon

'PROJECT MASCAL'

©Google It, and all will be revealed

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2011-09-01   18:01:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: TwentyTwelve (#104)

Wittenberg said he couldn’t do with 35 years of commercial jetliner experience.

yeah, well...

it's hard to say what wittenberg would have been capable of had he had a few hours of training in extreme low level flying with his autopilot coupled to GPS and a radar altimeter.

the fact remains: there's too many holes in th eofficial story.

lead.and.lag  posted on  2011-09-01   18:03:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: randge (#79) (Edited)

911research.wtc7.net/sept...ctims/pentagonkilled.html

Pentagon Victims

Who was Killed in the 9/11/01 Attack on the Pentagon

Whereas victims of the World Trade Center attack were identified by civilian authorities, victims of the attack on the Pentagon (like those of the crash of Flight 93) were identified by military authorities. The Armed Forces Institute of Pathology issued a report in November of 2001 claiming to have identified 184 of 189 persons killed in the Pentagon attack. 1

Since there were five alleged hijackers of Flight 77, whom authorities did not identify since they lacked DNA samples from the families, that 184 identifications accounts for the 125 people killed inside the Pentagon, and the 54 people other than the hijackers on board the aricraft.

The following map of the locations of victims in the attack was released as part of prosecution exhibits in the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui. 2

An office of the Army that had just re-occupied the Pentagon's recently renovated Wedge One, named Resource Services Washington, lost 34 of its 45 employees. Most were civilian accountants, bookkeepers and budget analysts. 3 Defense Secretary Rumsfeld had announced on the eve of the attack that more than $2 trillion was missing from the Pentagon.

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2011-09-01   18:11:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: lead.and.lag (#103)

you dont know that, i dont know that, nobody knows that, as far as i know, because nobody's tried it.

But aeronautical engineers DO know that and have reported on it. And that's besides the simple fact that planes climb when they accelerate, UNLESS the nose is pointed down.

IF the nose had been pointed down, traveling at 500 mph at tree top level, with approximately 500 feet between the initiation of descent and the time of impact, isn't it obvious to you that the plane would have hit the ground nose first and NOT have flown through the wall? Pulling the nose up too soon and it would have hit towards the roof; pulling it up too late and it would have crashed into the lawn. But even if the nose were pulled up at the exact right time, to get down to the altitude it HAD to have been at for it to enter the Pentagon as it did would cause it to bounce its engines off the ground due to the inertia of the descent, and the plane would have exploded on the lawn.

That's IF it could even get that low due to ground effect. A DIVE would overcome the ground effect of course, but a dive would have resulted in an impact from above, and this impact was level AND just several feet off the ground (considering the vertical height of the plane with its engines).

I'm still sticking with the fact it WOULD have been impossible for even the best pilot in the world to have pulled it off as claimed, never mind some idiot who really couldn't fly at all.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2011-09-01   18:24:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#109. To: lead.and.lag (#106)

it's hard to say what wittenberg would have been capable of had he had a few hours of training in extreme low level flying with his autopilot coupled to GPS and a radar altimeter.

Autopilot would not allow such a manuever, and besides that, according to the NTSB, it had been turned off WELL before the plane got to DC.

Autopilot holds a plane on course and at the proper altitude while cruising, it does not allow for the Flight Management Computer to be set to crash the plane into an object on the ground.

Besides, Hanjour didn't have the necessary skill or training to work the Flight Management Computer on a 757 to begin with.

So it is STILL impossible for it to have happened that way.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2011-09-01   18:30:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#110. To: James Deffenbach (#63)

I never said that. What I did say was that imo you couldn'

Good on. No you never agreded with L&L

"Satan / Cheney in "08" Just Foreign Policy Iraqi Death Estimator

tom007  posted on  2011-09-01   18:40:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: tom007 (#110)

No, I didn't agree with him, he just pretended I did.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.    Lord Acton

The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi

The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein

James Deffenbach  posted on  2011-09-01   19:02:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#112. To: lead.and.lag (#50)

i'd bet that an experienced 757 pilot could hit the same exact spot on the pentagon, without scraping wingtips, engine cowlings, or anything else.

Check out Pilots for 911 Truth and you will find that there are some very senior pilots questioning whether that it is possible at all for a 757 to do it once.

Interesting discussion on the Pilots for 911 Truth Forum here.

Remember The White Rose
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2011-09-01   20:38:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#113. To: FormerLurker (#90)

Ah, so you're a Sarah Palin fan...

alvin drinks and goes home

lead.and.lag  posted on  2011-09-01   22:48:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: Shoonra, Original_Intent, *9-11* (#1)

Shoonra: The wings of the jet lopped off the tops of some street lamps as it approached the Pentagon

Jump to Original_Intent's post at #112: Interesting discussion on the Pilots for 911 Truth Forum here.

Interesting comment there on Page 1:

If these wings were to hit light poles I don't think it would have done them the world of good at all.
In fact it would have converted the aircraft 'more into a shorter winged projectile' for the last part of it's journey, before smacking into things in front of the wall.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2011-09-01   23:43:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#115. To: GreyLmist (#114) (Edited)

If these wings were to hit light poles I don't think it would have done them the world of good at all.

In fact it would have converted the aircraft 'more into a shorter winged projectile' for the last part of it's journey...

speaking as a helicopter pilot who's mowed down acres of trees, through ineptitude, overenthusiasm, or necessity, i think the "pilot" who made that comment needs to look into the construction of airliner wings vs light poles.

meanwhile...

america drinks and goes home

lead.and.lag  posted on  2011-09-01   23:58:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#116. To: All (#115) (Edited)

you try not to hit trees, and you never hit big trees or big branches...

it's embarrassing to come taxiing back on the flight line, and the damaged tip caps are making that unmistakeable "whoosh, whoosh, whoosh" sound... everybody piles out of the line shack to see who's made a fool of himself.

on the other hand, when you're training, sometimes it's better to keep your hands off the controls, hoping that the student pilot has judgement enough to pull it off...

when he doesnt, that's the breaks, but he learns a couple things: first, maybe his judgement isnt as good as he thought it was, and second, he cant rely on somebody else to bail him out.

i figured that the learning experience for the students was worth the ridicule.

on yet another hand, that philosophy may have backfired, because a disproportionate amount of my students seem to have bought the farm in vietnam.

lead.and.lag  posted on  2011-09-02   0:41:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#117. To: lead.and.lag (#115)

speaking as a helicopter pilot who's mowed down acres of trees, through ineptitude, overenthusiasm, or necessity, i think the "pilot" who made that comment needs to look into the construction of airliner wings vs light poles.

And the helos were undamaged and as flight-stable as before? You can probably agree that fixed wing aircraft and helo rotor blades act differently. We're not talking about the jet wings shearing off tree branches or trunks with some flex to them. We're talking about the wing's metal impacting immobile metal objects at very high speed. Suppose your helo blades had jammed and they hit lamp posts as the aircraft was moving forward, even at a much lower speed. Might the blades have broken off or been mangled so as to make continued flight erratic or improbable?

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2011-09-02   0:41:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#118. To: GreyLmist (#117) (Edited)

i exaggerated when i said "acres of trees".

you got to screw up really bad to damage the aerodynamic properties of a rotor blade... the saving grace being, unless the trees are horrendously tall, you're close enough to the ground to survive the crash.

wings and rotor blades have to survive wind forces approaching or exceeding the speed of sound... light poles dont.

i dont know how much rotor blade you'd have to lose to put the rotor system so far out of balance that the lelicopter would shake itself to pieces, but, after observing the mechanics' efforts to balance and track rotor systems, i'd guess it would be a matter of inches, maybe less.

lead.and.lag  posted on  2011-09-02   0:47:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#119. To: lead.and.lag (#118)

Do you think the wings of a plane could fly through a lamp post cemented in the ground and the aircraft not crash right there or go careening wildly off its flight path?

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2011-09-02   1:09:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#120. To: GreyLmist (#119) (Edited)

light poles are designed to snap off on impact... the cement on the ground has nothing to do with it.

it's a matter of design... wings are designed to withstand 600 mph winds, light poles arent... they're designed to snap off when hit by a drunk on a bicycle.

lead.and.lag  posted on  2011-09-02   1:13:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#121. To: lead.and.lag (#120) (Edited)

light poles are designed to snap off on impact... the cement on the ground has nothing to do with it.

it's a matter of design... wings are designed to withstand 600 mph winds, light poles arent... they're designed to snap off when hit by a drunk on a bicycle.

I'm not talking about wind speed or the effect on the light poles. Compare the alleged plane impacts to your analogy of a drunk on a bicycle if you want to. How many light poles do you think the drunk could fell with their bicycle and still keep traveling on their course as if they hadn't done any such thing even once?

Edited to reword second sentence.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2011-09-02   1:31:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#122. To: GreyLmist (#121)

if the wing was designed to withstand 600 mph winds, and the light pole was designed to snap, and the airplane weighs maybe 250,000 pounds, i'd guess that the airplane wouldnt much notice that it hit a light pole.

lead.and.lag  posted on  2011-09-02   1:38:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#123. To: lead.and.lag (#122) (Edited)

Let's Roll Fourum: Plane Crash in Houston-Hit a LIGHTPOLE!!!

RegularGuy: Amazing how the smaller Gulfstream plane just chopped the top of the lightpole off, where the Pentagon flying object knocked the entire pole off its mounting, without being deformed at all.

Observer: the lights at the pentagon aren't just any ordinary lights...they are pentalights.

click2houston.com article: Official: Crashed Jet Was Set To Pick Up Ex-Pres. Bush

POSTED: Monday, November 22, 2004

Excerpts:

The former president, his spokesman Tom Freschette and a secret service agent were scheduled to travel to Ecuador for a business conference. They did not board the plane and their trip has been canceled, Freschette said.

[Jack Williams, a district chief with the Houston Fire Department] said the twin-engine Gulfstream jet, arriving from Dallas Love Field, apparently clipped a tall light tower at a Beltway 8 toll plaza, shearing off a wing. He said the severed wing rests near the base of the tower.

The district fire chief said firefighters found a trail of debris stretching about 1,000 feet from the light tower into a field north of the toll road.

No drivers on the tollway were injured, but one car was hit with wing debris while another was hit with jet fuel, according to Williams.

"There was a bright flash of light. Debris started raining down all over the road, hitting the car and the windshield," John Kaufmann said.

Workers at the toll plaza told officials they saw the plane clip the light pole and burst into flames.

Edited to shorten number of excerpts.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2011-09-02   2:21:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#124. To: GreyLmist (#123)

"let's roll forum", huh?

that's good.

lead.and.lag  posted on  2011-09-02   2:25:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#125. To: GreyLmist (#123)

what i'm meaning to say, is this:

once the messengers have proven themselves to be servants of the powers-that- be, you're justified in shooting the messengers.

lead.and.lag  posted on  2011-09-02   2:31:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#126. To: lead.and.lag (#124)

"let's roll forum", huh?

that's good.

I thought the two comments there on the article were interesting. Let's Roll Forum didn't write the article. Don't you have a comment about that subject? For someone who claims that the government conspiracy theory is out of whack, you sure do seem to be arguing to the contrary.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2011-09-02   2:44:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#127. To: GreyLmist (#126)

For someone who claims that the government conspiracy theory is out of whack, you sure do seem to be arguing to the contrary.

i cant make excuses for your ignorance.

lead.and.lag  posted on  2011-09-02   2:51:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#128. To: lead.and.lag (#125)

once the messengers have proven themselves to be servants of the powers-that- be, you're justified in shooting the messengers.

I could have posted the same article without referencing that controversial site and the comments there to avoid static but that would have been stealthy. Now, Ready- Aim-Fire at the article, if you feel like it. Ready-Fire-Aim at a secondary link source for it is ungood.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2011-09-02   3:04:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#129. To: GreyLmist (#128)

i went to vegas because there are lots of helicopter tour companies there.

i went to see them all, but they smelled me, they knew, somehow, that i didnt give a shit about flying anymore.

that loser stink is attaching to anyone who tries to confuse the 9/11 issue, and people can smell it.

lead.and.lag  posted on  2011-09-02   3:08:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#130. To: lead.and.lag (#129)

You're stalling and bombastically so -- like you're incensed. Why? Are you one of "Rivero's Rangers" over at whatreallyhappened.com who are instructed not to question the guv-issued line about the Pentagon on 9/11 or what?

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2011-09-02   4:06:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#131. To: GreyLmist (#130) (Edited)

Are you one of "Rivero's Rangers

rivero stinks, he's a limited hangout.

too bad he posted those ads for exxon.

lead.and.lag  posted on  2011-09-02   4:09:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#132. To: GreyLmist (#130) (Edited)

...but i got to say that rivero's program is interesting... he vilifies israel while adhering to exxon's denial of global warming.

what the hell are we sposed the thnk of that, seeing as how exx on joined up with the israeli americans of the AEI?

is that evidence that the israelis, and jews in general, have been sucked in to being goats?

what's new?

massive evidence that jews are smarter than the rest of us?

not likely.

lead.and.lag  posted on  2011-09-02   4:30:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#133. To: lead.and.lag (#132) (Edited)

Are you a global warmist? I was watching a modern day documentary recently about an Italian blimp that crashed at the North Pole back in the 1930's - the Italia. It showed footage of the watery conditions of the season even in that region, which impaired rescue attempts.

Edited for emphasis on the season.

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2011-09-02   5:36:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#134. To: GreyLmist (#133) (Edited)

Are you a global warmist?

i'm a person that thinks co2 is a warming gas, and that we're putting about 30 billion tons of extra co2 into the atmosphere every year.

please excuse me if i believe in cause and effect relationships... i know that goes against the anti-logic, anti-science, jesus-jumping grain.

lead.and.lag  posted on  2011-09-02   5:50:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#135. To: lead.and.lag (#134)

please excuse me if i believe in cause and effect relationships... i know that goes against the anti-logic, anti-science, jesus-jumping grain.

Praytell, what do you think Jesus has to do with the global warming topic?

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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2011-09-02   6:17:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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