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9/11
See other 9/11 Articles

Title: Americans Need the True About 9/11
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://lewrockwell.com/margolis/margolis258.html
Published: Sep 13, 2011
Author: Eric Margolis
Post Date: 2011-09-13 06:48:47 by Ada
Keywords: None
Views: 1065
Comments: 52

We Americans become like the moribund Hapsburg Empire which was said to have forgotten nothing and learned nothing.

Watching 9/11 commemorations, which have by now become an annual religious-political event, reminds us of this old adage.

One of the biggest tragedies within the tragedy of 9/11 is that the nation has not learned the real lesson of 9/11 – the reason why the 19 suicide hijackers attacked New York and Washington.

Before this attack, the hijacker’s ringleaders made clear their goal was to punish the United States for occupying the holy land of Saudi Arabia and for supporting Israel’s repression of the Palestinians.

A subtext of the deadly operation was to make America experience some of the suffering and damage it had long inflicted on the Mideast.

In short, the motive for the assault was entirely political. But the Bush administration and then Congress were unable or unwilling to accept the fact that America’s Mideast policies were the cause of the attacks. The US media cowered from discussing the true reasons for the attack as a third-rail that had to be avoided.

Instead, 9/11 was spun by the White House and a remarkably tame media into an assault on America by crazed Muslim fanatics who hated, as President Bush said, our freedoms, values, religion and way of life. Islam was to blame.

This message reverberated through the US media and government. Christian and some Jewish fundamentalist groups amplified the theme that Islam is a menace. Pundits opined that Islam was inherently and dangerously flawed, a religion that preached violence and sought world domination.

The lurid proclamations of Osama bin Laden served as a convenient, perfectly timed proof of the wickedness and danger of Islam. His tiny organization of no more than 300 men, as this writer saw firsthand, had been devoted to fighting the Afghan Communists, suddenly morphed into a mortal danger for the United States.

Al-Qaida was vastly exaggerated into a worldwide menace. Housewives in Peoria, Illinois, voted for George Bush because they feared Osama bin Laden was about to come and snatch away their children. Paranoia gripped the United States and made it do terrible things that violated its own laws, ethics and values.

Muslims under our mattress replaced the old bogeyman of the 1950’s, reds under our beds.

When Bush declared a "crusade" against terrorism, he really meant it. Like all crusades, this ostensibly religious mission quickly became a scramble for plunder – in this case, Iraq’s vast troves of oil and gas.

Thanks to Washington’s anti-Islamic spin over 9/11, Americans were able to steep themselves in righteous indignation and victimhood, free of any inconvenient questions that their policies in the Muslim world may have contributed to the 9/11 attacks.

The British used to call such attacks, "the cost of empire." But Americans were simply not aware their nation had an empire. This writer calls it the "American Raj."

Blaming fanatical Muslims for 9/11 may have been a tactical success for the Bush White House. But in the longer run, laying off the blame on Islam has proved strategically disastrous for the US and just as dishonest as blaming World War II on Christianity.

Poll after poll is now showing that a majority in Muslim nations, even so-called "moderate" ones like Egypt, Indonesia and Morocco, mistakenly believe the US is out to destroy Islam.

The fire and brimstone anti-Muslim hate fulminations of mountebanks like Rev. Hagee, Newt Gingrich, Pat Robertson and Rush Limbaugh are amplified at full volume across the Muslim world.

Pakistanis now regard the United States as their nation’s leading enemy. Old foe India has fallen into second place. Anti-Americanism is now raging across the Muslim world. The next explosion will come in long-repressed Egypt.

Washington has fallen into Osama bin Laden’s last and deepest trap. First, two wars that have so far cost up to $4 trillion and thousands of US military casualties. Next, the undermining of the US economy by reckless deficit spending on the military and intelligence. Under Bush, and now Obama, the runaway deficit has reached an astounding $1.4 trillion.

Finally, the so-called "war on terror," that has earned America the searing hatred of much of the Muslim world.

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#12. To: FormerLurker (#9)

what do they do, keep floating around as different people until they get it right?Then what? I believe each of us is created with an eternal soul, live once on earth, & are judged according to our deeds.Makes more sense than reincarnation.

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

Artisan  posted on  2011-09-13   10:53:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Artisan (#12)

what do they do, keep floating around as different people until they get it right?Then what? I believe each of us is created with an eternal soul, live once on earth, & are judged according to our deeds.Makes more sense than reincarnation.

And where does that soul go? How would ANYONE know if it comes back to live in another physical body, or goes on to the next phase of existance? If a soul IS eternal, it could go ANYWHERE, but WHERE that somewhere is may just be the result of KARMA...


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2011-09-13   10:55:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: FormerLurker (#11)

i agree 100% with that.

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

Artisan  posted on  2011-09-13   10:57:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Artisan (#12)

keep floating around as different people until they get it right?

Uh, I believe the answer to that is a resounded YES. Maybe not even PEOPLE, but as animals that live horrible lives, such as farm animals or worse, laboratory animals.

Or perhaps as a dolphin or sea gull, if a person has lived a good life.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2011-09-13   10:58:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: FormerLurker (#13)

(i keep asking myself why discuss religion when thats not what I come here for! ;)

since each is created by God, an individual born with a body & soul. it devalues us to think we could be someone else rehashed.Where does 1 go upon death & judgement? Heaven, hell, or purgatory.

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

Artisan  posted on  2011-09-13   11:03:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: FormerLurker (#9) (Edited)

I'm of the opinion that people have to deal with Karma, and that might require another life here on Earth or elsewhere, where they will reap what they have sown from their past life.

It's a very Universal belief I think.

However widespread any particular belief it is either true or not true. Everyone on earth can believe something but if it is not true their belief does not and will not change that.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.    Lord Acton

The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi

The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein

"...if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..."  Lawrence M. Vance

Você me trata assim só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)

James Deffenbach  posted on  2011-09-13   11:04:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Artisan (#16) (Edited)

Where does 1 go upon death & judgement? Heaven, hell, or purgatory.

Exactly where IS Heaven, Hell, or Purgatory? And what about the millions of other worlds with intelligent life, and beyond that, other possible universes?

What of them, do they have the SAME Heaven, Hell, or Purgatory?

There is MUCH that we DO NOT KNOW. Reincarnation explains a lot, and fits in with the belief that if there IS in fact a Universal Intelligence, call it God if you will. Reincarnation fits in with Natural Order and observed truth, that animals ALSO have souls, as they have intelligence, understanding, and emotion.

And domestic animals DO know the difference between right and wrong, at least those such as dogs and cats.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2011-09-13   11:10:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: FormerLurker (#15)

a dolphin or sea gull as a reward of a good human life?! Christine posted some pics of cows dying of thirst yesterday. The notion that that cow could be prescott bush or ted bundy is ...beyond, farciful Such a notion is actually funny.

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

Artisan  posted on  2011-09-13   11:10:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: James Deffenbach (#17)

Everyone on earth can believe something but if it is not true their belief does not and will not change that.

We all get to find out in the end, that's ONE Universal Truth that is hard to argue against.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2011-09-13   11:11:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Artisan (#12)

what do they do, keep floating around as different people until they get it right?Then what? I believe each of us is created with an eternal soul, live once on earth, & are judged according to our deeds.Makes more sense than reincarnation.

I agree. This is why I agree.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Appointed to man ONCE to die. Not over and over with some chance of "doing it better" or "getting it right." I put no hope and no faith in reincarnation because, in my opinion, it is a false hope of living enough lives here to attain perfection and people will never do that this side of death.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.    Lord Acton

The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi

The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein

"...if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..."  Lawrence M. Vance

Você me trata assim só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)

James Deffenbach  posted on  2011-09-13   11:12:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Artisan (#19) (Edited)

The notion that that cow could be prescott bush or ted bundy is ...beyond, farciful Such a notion is actually funny.

I'm sure God gets a chuckle out of it as well, if He and/or She has any sense of humor...


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2011-09-13   11:13:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: FormerLurker (#20)

We all get to find out in the end, that's ONE Universal Truth that is hard to argue against.

Well now we agree on that. And that's why it is important to be right with God when your time here is up.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.    Lord Acton

The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi

The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein

"...if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..."  Lawrence M. Vance

Você me trata assim só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)

James Deffenbach  posted on  2011-09-13   11:15:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: FormerLurker (#18)

i dont know exactly where heaven & hell are, but they are states of being in the afterlife. I am a big dog lover but dont believe animals have a soul or consciousness.They can not sin, theyre mammals who act on instinct.

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

Artisan  posted on  2011-09-13   11:17:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Artisan (#10) (Edited)

Good & evil exist,

But it's relative.

A cat is evil incarnate, to a mouse.

Being a human, with what the religionistas call "sins" (lust, greed etc), is not a sin unless it infringes on others rights.

real Christians

Every christian thinks they are Real Christians. Every last one of them. And it doesn't matter how mainstream or heretical they are. I included myself in that. I was the same way.

Real Christians(tm) support israel, wars, etc because their bible supports these things. They are just believing and putting into action what they read. Again, I did the same.

PSUSA2  posted on  2011-09-13   11:22:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: James Deffenbach (#21)

Thanks for that. I agree 100%. Holy Scripture is God's word, and is the truth.

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

Artisan  posted on  2011-09-13   11:24:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Artisan (#26)

Thanks for that. I agree 100%. Holy Scripture is God's word, and is the truth.

You're very welcome.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.    Lord Acton

The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi

The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein

"...if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..."  Lawrence M. Vance

Você me trata assim só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)

James Deffenbach  posted on  2011-09-13   11:27:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: James Deffenbach (#21)

Appointed to man ONCE to die.

How would YOU or ANYONE ELSE know that, beyond the words contained in a oft modified and edited collection of writings of dubious origin?

Honestly, what sort of "god" NEEDS to die on a cross to "get it right the first time" in order to achieve ANYTHING? What good did it do, when you look at the history of evil committed in his name over the past several thousand years? Seems to me, a good, kind, loving, and all knowing God would have KNOWN that and PREVENTED it, He would not have INSTIGATED it.

It is my belief that God is MUCH MUCH more than any single man who once incarnated a human body, God is much grander, magnificent, and omnipresent.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2011-09-13   11:27:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Artisan (#26)

Holy Scripture is God's word, and is the truth.

So who wrote that "scripture"? Don't try to tell me God did.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2011-09-13   11:28:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Artisan (#24)

I am a big dog lover but dont believe animals have a soul or consciousness.They can not sin, theyre mammals who act on instinct.

Do you own any pets? You can tell in a dog's behavior, their eyes, and their responses to your voice, that they understand things.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2011-09-13   11:30:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Artisan (#24) (Edited)

i dont know exactly where heaven & hell are, but they are states of being in the afterlife.

So you can't say without question, that a soul does NOT return to Earth to experience another state of existance, for further training if you wish to call it that, but with just reward or punishment for past deeds...


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2011-09-13   11:32:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Artisan (#24)

believe animals have a soul or consciousness

In fact, have you ever watched an animal, and/or a human being die? In both instances, you can see the life there, and in another flash of a second, you can tell it's not there anymore. That happens when the soul leaves the body.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2011-09-13   11:37:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: FormerLurker (#28)

1. How would YOU or ANYONE ELSE know that, beyond the words contained in a oft modified and edited collection of writings of dubious origin?

2. Honestly, what sort of "god" NEEDS to die on a cross to "get it right the first time" in order to achieve ANYTHING? What good did it do, when you look at the history of evil committed in his name over the past several thousand years? Seems to me, a good, kind, loving, and all knowing God would have KNOWN that and PREVENTED it, He would not have INSTIGATED it.

It is my belief that God is MUCH MUCH more than any single man who once incarnated a human body, God is much grander, magnificent, and omnipresent.

I will preface my remarks by saying that I do not, and will not, argue about religion. But when it comes up I will say what I believe and why because I am not ashamed of my Lord and the truth contained in his word. That said, I will adress your issues.

1. It is a matter of FAITH in those words. If you are a Christian they speak to you and you know they are true. But you can't explain faith beyond that, at least I can't.

2. God had no reason to die on a cross but to give people the opportunity to repent of their sins. Before Christ lived on earth as a man God required animal sacrifice as an atonement for sin but this was something that had to be done on a continual basis since man can't really stop sinning. Oh, he can try but even at his best he is not perfect and not "good enough" to get into heaven by his own works. Christ came as a perfect sacrifice and shed his blood (and endured tremendous suffering) so that anyone who believed upon him could be saved. And he achieved more than any man who ever walked the earth before his time or since he arose from the dead and returned to heaven to be with the Father.

God did not instigate all this evil you are talking about. Man's spirit of rebellion against God is the cause of all his suffering. If Adam and Eve had obeyed God then man would not have all these problems but they didn't and the world is teeming with problems, hatred, war, guilt, murder, greed, lust--you name it and if it is bad someone has done it or is doing it and it is all because of that first act of disobedience.

3. God is more than you or I can imagine but don't make light of the "single man" who agreed with the Father--volunteered--to come and live his life as a man, subject to all the same temptations and yet succumbed to none of them and lived a perfect, sin free life. He did that for you and for me and for all who would accept. But according to God's word you get one shot at accepting that gift and receiving the blessings of accepting it or, if you choose not to accept it, the curse that goes with that decision. I always hope that people will choose wisely.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.    Lord Acton

The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi

The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein

"...if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..."  Lawrence M. Vance

Você me trata assim só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)

James Deffenbach  posted on  2011-09-13   11:47:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Ada (#0)

One of the biggest tragedies within the tragedy of 9/11 is that the nation has not learned the real lesson of 9/11 – the reason why the 19 suicide hijackers attacked New York and Washington.

since Margoles propagates the Official Story, i don't respect what he writes here.

christine  posted on  2011-09-13   11:51:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: James Deffenbach (#33) (Edited)

God never required ANY sort of sacrifice, it was an ancient belief which predates ANY sort of Hebrew text that killing animals to offer up to whatever deity was being addressed would help smooth things out for the people doing the sacrificing.

I once accepted the notion that men on Earth could tell me or anyone else what God is all about, then once I looked at the way things truly are, understood why that is not acceptable.

A book written by men is not God, nor his word. It is nothing more than the words of men. That others feel differently, if it didn't directly affect me and the rest of mankind, wouldn't bother me. But it HAS affected all of the above, and not for the better.

And not just the "Christian" belief dogma, but that of Judaism and Islam, their fanatical brethren are just as dangerous and self righteous.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2011-09-13   12:01:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: christine (#34)

since Margoles propagates the Official Story, i don't respect what he writes here.

If he is seeking to tell the truth about 9/11 is not close at all. But he is right that Muslims are regarding the USA as their top enemy now. I think that is exactly what the planners of 9/11 wanted, Christians and Muslims fighting each other.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2011-09-13   12:02:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: RickyJ, christine (#36)

But he is right that Muslims are regarding the USA as their top enemy now. I think that is exactly what the planners of 9/11 wanted, Christians and Muslims fighting each other.

That is exactly what was desired, in addition to the stripping away of our rights and freedoms.

It's a win/win for those at the top.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2011-09-13   12:07:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: FormerLurker (#35)

I have said what I had to say, what I personally believe. I don't demand that you or anyone else accept it, not my place to do that. But I don't argue about it either.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.    Lord Acton

The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi

The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein

"...if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..."  Lawrence M. Vance

Você me trata assim só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)

James Deffenbach  posted on  2011-09-13   12:15:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: PSUSA2 (#25)

relativism is dangerous because if there are no absolutes, evil can be justified (reichtag fires). Although many Christians are deluded into supporting war & empire,not all of them do.People need to discern,examine their conscience, & stay on track.

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

Artisan  posted on  2011-09-13   12:25:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: FormerLurker (#30)

Do you own any pets?

funny, but those who thinks animals are equal to men wouldnt use the word OWN,they use caretaker or a similar word) Yes I own a dog, ive had her almost half my life & love her dearly.She is part of the family. But she doesnt have a soul. She's a dog.

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

Artisan  posted on  2011-09-13   12:41:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Artisan (#39)

relativism is dangerous because if there are no absolutes, evil can be justified (reichtag fires).

to me it is absolutism that is dangerous. It relieves people of the burden of thinking and judging for themselves. They can just point to a book/chapter/verse and it's spelled out for them.

First of all, who defines the absolute? "God"? It is christians that believe that. ANd I pick christians because they are the majority here.

So, using absolutes is what justifies what christians call evil.

People bitch about these moronic "zero tolerance policies", but they accept them without question when preached from a pulpit, or more rarely, read from their dust covered bibles.

Here is an example. Looking at a hot woman with lust is a sin, right? That is an absolute, right? Isn't there something that says it is better to pluck out ones eyes so you dont go to "hell" due to those wandering eyes? THese kike based religions are the only ones I can think of that DEMAND a person act in opposition to their own natures. It is not a sin to be a human.

WE're getting off topic here, but I stand by my statement that the kike-based religion(s) are responsible for 9/11, and until they are destroyed there will be more attacks. TPTB use these religions to get what they want, and the deluded idiots give it to them on a fucking silver platter.

PSUSA2  posted on  2011-09-13   12:49:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: FormerLurker, Artisan (#32)

In fact, have you ever watched an animal, and/or a human being die? In both instances, you can see the life there, and in another flash of a second, you can tell it's not there anymore. That happens when the soul leaves the body.

Dogs are not sentient. Nor do they match man who was made in God's image and contains the Spirit of God.

farmfriend  posted on  2011-09-13   12:50:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: FormerLurker (#29)

Men wrote the Bible & passed it down through the centuries.It is a matter of faith that the Bible is the inspired word of God.There are probably a lot of books where you got your ideas written by folks of dubious origin, with an agenda.Do you doubt those?

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

Artisan  posted on  2011-09-13   13:04:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: PSUSA2 (#41)

you picked a good example because if men werent sexually attracted to women marriage wouldnt exist & the human race would die off.Lust is another matter though.Murder, rape, robbery, tyranny etc are clearly always wrong.Those are examples of absolutes.

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

Artisan  posted on  2011-09-13   13:14:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: FormerLurker (#31)

So you can't say without question

I can say it with absolute certainty, exceeding my criteria, that men don't return to earth as opossoms or cows, or even people, when they die. if someone believes otherwise, I'll tell them theyre wrong, but I'm not gonna fret about it. To each their own

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

Artisan  posted on  2011-09-13   13:21:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: farmfriend (#42)

lol, maybe the people in groups like PETA are reincarnationists which explains their weird view of animals? Think about it. If i thought that dogs were humans stuck in fur (aka the shaggy dog) that would freak me out & id feel obligated to d something.

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

Artisan  posted on  2011-09-13   13:28:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Artisan (#40)

funny, but those who thinks animals are equal to men wouldnt use the word OWN

I never said they were equal. That doesn't mean that people have the right to inflict suffering onto them either.

But she doesnt have a soul. She's a dog.

So you don't feel that she loves you?


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2011-09-13   13:45:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Artisan (#44)

Murder, rape, robbery, tyranny etc are clearly always wrong

Who in the bible demands that The Chosen do these things to others, or else! Let me think... Was it Satan? No. Hmmm. Who was it...

Who in the NT will supposedly destroy everyone on this planet? All those bowls, vials, blood etc. Who does that. Personally I now consider that to be fiction.

PSUSA2  posted on  2011-09-13   13:56:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: farmfriend (#42)

Dogs are not sentient.

That's incorrect. They ARE sentient, in that they feel love, anger, and jealousy, just to name a few emotions they share with humans.

Nor do they match man who was made in God's image and contains the Spirit of God.

Uh huh. When's the last time you saw God? NOBODY can say what God's PHYSICAL IMAGE "looks like", since God is NOT a physical being.

Male and female - THEY were created in God's Likeness, and that's not necessarily a PHYSICAL reflection, but spiritual...

And BTW, who do you think wrote any of that? It was some Jew living in the desert thousands of years ago, that's who. So what makes HIM (or THEY) so wise that HE (or THEY) would know how things TRULY are and what happended eons of time prior to his or their own birth?

ANYONE can claim to be speaking for "God", yet that doesn't mean they are telling the truth, and more than likely, they are not.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2011-09-13   13:58:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Artisan (#45)

I can say it with absolute certainty

No you can't. You have no data, one way or the other.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2011-09-13   13:59:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Artisan (#43) (Edited)

Men wrote the Bible & passed it down through the centuries.It is a matter of faith that the Bible is the inspired word of God.There are probably a lot of books where you got your ideas written by folks of dubious origin, with an agenda.Do you doubt those?

I do agree with one part of the bible which states, "By their deeds you will know them".

Judging by a person's deeds, I can tell whether they are on the side of Light, or the side of Darkness, no matter WHAT they say or WHAT they claim to believe in.

And judging from some of "god's orders" in the bible, such as the following verse, I can tell that whoever wrote that was EVIL.

1 Samuel 15:3 - King James Version

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

In fact, I'd say that's what the Jews use to justify their actions.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2011-09-13   14:07:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Artisan (#46)

i thought that dogs were humans stuck in fur (aka the shaggy dog) that would freak me out & id feel obligated to d something.

Whether or not they are human souls, lesser souls, or even HIGHER souls, they deserve to be treated as one would wish to be treated themselves if they were in fact living as that sort of creature.


"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen

FormerLurker  posted on  2011-09-13   14:14:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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