#10. To: wudidiz, PSUSA2, wakeup, Artisan, christine, Jethro Tull (#5)
Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. (Proverbs 1:7) Not a servile fear, but a reverence for the infinite Creator., who gives us all that is good & knows what is best for us.
But, isn't free will based on fear of "the eternal lake of fire" the moral equivalent of Rafael Leonidas Trujillo Molina's "civic reviews" in lieu of secret ballot elections?
___________________________________
Those who did not contribute, or join the party, did so at their own risk. Opponents of the regime were mysteriously killed. In 1934, Trujillo, who had promoted himself to generalissimo of the army, was up for re-election. Although he would have won in any case as there was virtually no organized opposition left in the country, Trujillo dispensed even with these formalities. Instead, he relied upon "civic reviews", with large crowds shouting their loyalty to the government.
Personality Cult
At the suggestion of Mario Fermín Cabral, Congress voted overwhelmingly in 1936 to rename the capital from Santo Domingo to Ciudad Trujillo. The province of San Cristobal was created as "Trujillo", and the nation's highest peak, Pico Duarte, was renamed Pico Trujillo in his honor. Statues of "El Jefe" were mass-produced and erected across the Republic, and bridges and public buildings were named in his honor.
The nation's newspapers now had praise for Trujillo as part of the front page, and license plates included the slogan: "Viva Trujillo!" An electric sign was erected in Ciudad Trujillo so that "Dios y Trujillo" could be seen at night as well as in the day. Eventually, even churches were required to post the slogan: "Dios en cielo, Trujillo en tierra" (God in Heaven, Trujillo on Earth).
As time went on, the order of the phrases was reversed (Trujillo on Earth, God in Heaven). Trujillo was recommended for the Nobel Peace Prize by his admirers, but the committee declined the suggestion. (presumably because the committee didn't have the wisdom that comes from having machine guns trained on them while deliberating-HD)
When he received (or summoned) a visitor, his four bodyguards would have submachine guns trained upon the "guest" during the meeting.[8]
[wiki]
To the good Christians of Santo Domingo the power of "God and Trujillo" was a distinction with very little difference.. Those who believed that both had the power of life and death over them did not openly question the morality of either "deity".
Now 4um's Christians may feel obligated to argue that God's (aka Jehovah Q. Schwartz and Jesus H. Christ's) power was legit but Trujillo's wasn't. But God never threw anyone into stinking cells with other naked and brutalized men or allowed them to succumb to TB or pneumonia for "failure to proclaim their deepest "love" for him.
And, in Santo Domingo God's "Four horsemen" were no match for four bodyguards wielding machine guns, and under those conditions it was clear which "deity" was more worthy of multiple statues.
Christians who don't fear God (i.e., ass raping priests) cannot love him because the Biblical definition of that love is simply a mandatory profession of affection to avoid consequences of unspeakable horror. Under those conditions "free will" is no choice at all. The only reason that some commit the ultimate crimes or "sins" is because they're confident that, "Faith is believing what you know ain't so." (Mark Twain)
So, any ballot or plebiscite which God controls (or Trujillo controlled) is (or was) no more valid than the elections that used paperless, electronic voting machines where the results contradicted the exit polls and entire Democratic precincts inexplicably voted overwhelmingly Republican.
"Fear of Trujillo is the beginning of wisdom".
Now that makes perfect sense to all but the most extreme, wild eyed, would-be martyrs and of course those who have sacrificed nothing but were willing to kill others to force affectionate compliance, i.e., Bush supporters who threatened Natalie Maines and The Dixie Chicks. So, what do devout neoChristians (like John Hagee or Michele Bachmann or Bill O"Reilly) and anonymous "Assassins For Bush" have in common? Well, having two deities is fine as long as one doesn't interfere with or question the validity of the signing statements and/or executive orders of the other.
To the true Christians here who are hurt by such statements, I don't see how any mere mortal can clean up your house. But, you may wish to abandon those who allow no criticism presumably because even a "bad Christian" is better than a "good skeptic, agnostic or atheist". Someone should expose those who ride through the night with the cross of St. George on their gowns (or Kevlar helmets or tailored made "Sunday go to meetin' suits, and for GAWD"S SAKE don't mention Jesus while our honored Israeli/AIPAC guests are here") If Christian patriots (And I don't mean treasury looting warlords like Erik Prince or high priests like Dick Cheney) don't finger the bastards then they should stand aside while others expose the blatant hypocrisy of the Night Riders & Election Riggers For Jesus.
Christians who don't fear God (i.e., ass raping priests)
are not Christians in fact but in name only--in other words they choose the designation without living up to what it actually means. Not everyone who claims to be a Christian is telling the truth.
Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton
The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi
The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein
"...if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..." Lawrence M. Vance
Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)
Now 4um's Christians may feel obligated to argue that God's (aka Jehovah Q. Schwartz and Jesus H. Christ's) power was legit but Trujillo's wasn't. But God never threw anyone into stinking cells with other naked and brutalized men or allowed them to succumb to TB or pneumonia for "failure to proclaim their deepest "love" for him.
That is what "hell" is for.
To the true Christians here who are hurt by such statements, I don't see how any mere mortal can clean up your house.
Yep. But no one can see the mess from the inside. It takes leaving that house to see how messy it all is. And when one is born in that "house", it is hard to leave because it's all we know.
But I also know that there are those "heretics" that blame what they call the "Great Apostasy" for this mess. That is a difficult argument to refute, since I believed that too for a long time, not comprehending that it was a circular argument (depending on the bible to prove the bible). The bible is one huge circular argument and breaking out of that circle is one hell of a fight. It can take years. Decades.
Christians who don't fear God (i.e., ass raping priests)
are not Christians in fact but in name only--in other words they choose the designation without living up to what it actually means. Not everyone who claims to be a Christian is telling the truth.
Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Well, JD, you're one Christian whose sincerity is never in doubt and in fact I've modified my (previously much harsher) rhetoric because of you.
It's a thin line between exposing evil and violating the Biblical mandate against judging others. But, if "worst case Christians" in ancient Rome were anything like today's, then we may see "LIONS-9 CHRISTIANS-0" yet again.
The bible is one huge circular argument and breaking out of that circle is one hell of a fight. It can take years. Decades.
if israel or their neocon buddies start a nuke war, and nobody gets raptured, that oughta go a long way in helping some of the radical christians break out...
i mean, how many generations of unraptured radioactive two-headed mutants will it take before people start figuring things out?
but any dogma that requires you to cripple your mind is probably doomed in the long run... reality eventually catches up.
gee, seems like two different gods they're talking about, hmmmmmm.....
Thou hast power only to act not over the result thereof. Act thou therefore without prospect of the result and without succcumbing to inaction. The mind acts like an enemy for those who do not control it...Perform your obligatory duty, because action is indeed better than inaction...Sever the ignorant doubt in your heart with the sword of self-knowledge. Observe your discipline. Arise.
Well, JD, you're one Christian whose sincerity is never in doubt and in fact I've modified my (previously much harsher) rhetoric because of you.
You don't know how much I appreciate that. I have told others that if I am ever "accused" of being a Christian I hope there will be sufficient evidence to find me guilty.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton
The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi
The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein
"...if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..." Lawrence M. Vance
Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)
Now 4um's Christians may feel obligated to argue that God's (aka Jehovah Q. Schwartz and Jesus H. Christ's) power was legit but Trujillo's wasn't. But God never threw anyone into stinking cells with other naked and brutalized men or allowed them to succumb to TB or pneumonia for "failure to proclaim their deepest "love" for him.
That is what "hell" is for.
To the true Christians here who are hurt by such statements, I don't see how any mere mortal can clean up your house.
Yep. But no one can see the mess from the inside. It takes leaving that house to see how messy it all is. And when one is born in that "house", it is hard to leave because it's all we know.
But I also know that there are those "heretics" that blame what they call the "Great Apostasy" for this mess. That is a difficult argument to refute, since I believed that too for a long time, not comprehending that it was a circular argument (depending on the bible to prove the bible). The bible is one huge circular argument and breaking out of that circle is one hell of a fight. It can take years. Decades.
"....The bible is one huge circular argument...."
My problem became critical when The RT. Rev. DR.-Liberty University Chancellor Jerry Falwell said,
"Faith is the evidence of that unseen." A logical interpretation (of its illogical meaning) is, "The absence of proof is the proof of its absent existence." (The corporate jet that Israel gave Falwell was largely unseen, but I had faith that the message and mandate from them through him was very real indeed)
Cuban school kids were taught to pray to God for milk and no milk was forthcoming, but after praying to Fidel la leche "miraculously appeared!"
Would anyone be surprised to learn that many of those children had more "faith" in Fidel than ewe gno hoo?
And of course Hell is not nearly as frightening a prospect as imminent starvation or soldiers with spotlights and loudspeakers barking orders to terrified families in the middle of the night.
Fidel knew that if he grabbed children by their empty stomachs their hearts and minds would follow. (Hopefully we'll be spared the other, vulgar variation of this axiom)
My wife asked unapproved questions of the priests and nuns in Catholic school and she quickly learned that "That ain't what Catechism is all about!" She had to learn to think of the Church as her team and that other teams were trying to gain yardage at the expense of the one true Church, headed by "Christ's Vicar on Earth", presumably because it bore the original seal of approval of Emperor Constantine and the copyright claim to St. Peter the Apostle.
if israel or their neocon buddies start a nuke war, and nobody gets raptured, that oughta go a long way in helping some of the radical christians break out...
I disagree, and here's why.
Facts mean nothing to religiously deluded. I'm not being mean by saying that, because I know that facts meant nothing to me.
Things get glossed over when reading about the nutty jew god. Things get noticed, but it still takes a long time for this nuttiness to sink in, in my experience. The programming remains in control. One has to fight their own way out of it.
Some of the very same things that I/we rip others for, I have said in the past, and I meant it when I said it. For example: support of israel. It was done out of ignorance, but it was still done.
I have told others that if I am ever "accused" of being a Christian I hope there will be sufficient evidence to find me guilty.
Well, I'll stand up for you if it will keep you from being fed to the lions. Hopefully that venue will be reserved for CINOs in the arena and Monday Night Football fans (and Texas Republicans) in the seats.
if israel or their neocon buddies start a nuke war, and nobody gets raptured, that oughta go a long way in helping some of the radical christians break out...
I disagree...
well, big religions have died out, that's what i'm going on....
...which doesnt mean that a jillion doofus little religions wont spring up to replace them...
no preacher ever ever ever quotes John 14-26...All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.
why?
I mean, didn't he really mean, "ignore that, cuz what i really meant was i'll send you a bunch of men to tell you what to think, you will know they are legitimate because, well, i guess cuz they say so....just do whatever they say...if there's one thing we've learned, following self appointed god representatives always has led to super fantastic outcomes...yep....ask the pharisees"
thats the true meaning....who needs that holy spirit stuff when you've got cadres of power lusting men who can do the job?
yep...no church is gonna survive if they teach that.
and that is why they are still in business.
Thou hast power only to act not over the result thereof. Act thou therefore without prospect of the result and without succcumbing to inaction. The mind acts like an enemy for those who do not control it...Perform your obligatory duty, because action is indeed better than inaction...Sever the ignorant doubt in your heart with the sword of self-knowledge. Observe your discipline. Arise.
well, peace as in forgiveness rather than vengeance (eye for eye) jehovah vomit horseshit
Thou hast power only to act not over the result thereof. Act thou therefore without prospect of the result and without succcumbing to inaction. The mind acts like an enemy for those who do not control it...Perform your obligatory duty, because action is indeed better than inaction...Sever the ignorant doubt in your heart with the sword of self-knowledge. Observe your discipline. Arise.
if israel or their neocon buddies start a nuke war, and nobody gets raptured, that oughta go a long way in helping some of the radical christians break out...
I disagree, and here's why.
Facts mean nothing to religiously deluded. I'm not being mean by saying that, because I know that facts meant nothing to me.
Things get glossed over when reading about the nutty jew god. Things get noticed, but it still takes a long time for this nuttiness to sink in, in my experience. The programming remains in control. One has to fight their own way out of it.
Some of the very same things that I/we rip others for, I have said in the past, and I meant it when I said it. For example: support of israel. It was done out of ignorance, but it was still done.
Your explanation is way too long for this mental midget.
May I suggest that you either use brief, familiar quotes that are so often repeated that "the stoopids" believe them to be true, or, ignore the nasty drunken idiot before he savages you for daring to use irrefutable logic to disagree with him.
Okay, in the ENTIRE New Testament, Hell is mentioned only nine times.
You obviously feel that, for some reason, the NINE times mentioned in the NT are somehow "special" and "different" from other faiths. So, you tell me what is so special about the nine times Hell is mentioned in Christianity........
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
Well, I'll stand up for you if it will keep you from being fed to the lions.
Well, thank you for that too. I hope and pray that God will give me sufficient courage to never deny Christ no matter what someone may do to me. This life is temporary and whatever pain and suffering accompanies it is also temporary for Christians.
Whereas ye know not what [shall be] on the morrow. For what [is] your life? It is even a vapour, that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away. ~ James 4:14
“Space by itself, and time by itself, are doomed to fade away in mere shadows.” ~ Hermann Minkowski
“I want to know God’s thoughts … the rest are details.” ~ Albert Einstein
Infinity (definition): limitless or endless space, extent or size; impossible to measure or calculate: the infinite mercy of God. [synonyms: vast, forever] ~ The Oxford American Dictionary
“Modern mathematics has given us the concept of infinity. The sum of any number multiplied by infinity is zero. Therefore, our lifetimes, whether 17, 70 or 700 years, when multiplied by infinity, are nothing compared to the infinite lifetime of God.” ~ John Bevere
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton
The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi
The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein
"...if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..." Lawrence M. Vance
Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)
How could you miss it? I think that you expected others to find what only you can find for yourself. Now you are disappointed that "they" led you astray, as if you are some "victim" of religion.
Personally, you could toss out all of the NT save the Sermon on the Mount and, if you followed it, you would be the LIGHT of the world......few opt to go that route though. Most are looking for somebody else to tell them how to get to the kingdom.
You should simply accept that Christianity was made political long ago, but that doesn't alter the initial intent of Jesus Christ and His teachings.....go read the Sermon on the Mount again and you will "see" it more clearly.
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
christianity uses the "hell" concept to terrorize people into becoming christians.
my bible school teachers
HUMANS do that lead and lag.......don't confuse what others "use" as any indication of a "correct" interpretation.
My Sunday School teacher did the same, but I don't feel jaded....as a kid I was pious for cookies. : )
You are an adult now......fully capable of finding that kingdom within and forging a deeper sense of understanding than you had as a child. What good does packing around your sense of "victimhood" over Sunday school as a child do you?
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
well, peace as in forgiveness rather than vengeance
Forgiveness for what? Being human? Not being perfect?
"god" might as well have said "Because you cannot jump over the moon, you are a sinner and deserve to spend eternity in HELL, but I will help you if I feel like it!"
It is the old problem/reaction/solution that we see all the time. The kikes invent a "perfect" god and make men less-than-perfect sinners, this provokes a fear reaction (after all, who wants to be roasted on a spit for all eternity), so a solution (jesus) is provided (if you obey)
The insane "god's" standards need to be called into question. (That is, if anyone believes this 'god' exists in the first place).
Fuck that. But I have to say, it's damned effective when it comes to controlling peoples minds. That is what the OP video shows
I didn't set out to leave christianity. I just tried for years to understand it. It only makes sense if one listens to a preacher that they agree with. If they dont agree with that preacher, they will find someone that they can agree with. But to use the bible to try and understand it? Good Fucking Luck with that.
All religions teach that to some extent or another. The beauty of it is that IF you can't control your mind you are a slave to it and hence you create your own hell.
"Fear NOT, ye of little faith." You have now traded your fear of hell for fear of "Christian terrorists" so I'd say you are no better off for it.
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
you've admitted you've willingly crippled your mind, but you havent explained why rational people should pay attention to you.
Oh, do tell, how have I "crippled" my mind?
You haven't provided any indication of rationality yet. A "rational" person would accept that nobody has asked you to pay attention and a "rational" person would ask themselves why they continue to do so. Why do you need any explanations from me in regards to where you place your attention?
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
hurry, get under the bed "Christian terrorists" are lurking.
LOL! Dey beze bad!!!
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton
The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi
The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein
"...if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..." Lawrence M. Vance
Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)
you agree that all religions require you to cripple your mind.
you seem to be a christian.
what are we supposed to think of your pretenses at rationality?
My point of agreement comes from a greater depth of reading and attempting to understand MULTIPLE faiths and with no judgment as you place on it. What you deem to "cripple" any person's mind is actually your own inability to understand and your feeling of having been "led astray" in your quest for understanding. Simply because you feel crippled by your limited understanding, doesn't mean that the rest of us feel this way.
You think this because your understanding is limited to that which is Christian. Hence, you can only grasp a concept from this limited perspective, but you are in error in attempting to limit mine.
What are you/we to think? I am not here to tell you what to think......that is your job. A rational person thinks for themselves.
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11
"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne