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Title: DINOSAUR and HUMAN FOOTPRINTS TOGETHER
Source:
POKERFACE E MAIL
URL Source: http://184.154.224.5/~creatio1/inde ... tent&task=view&id=48&Itemid=24
Published: Oct 14, 2011
Author: Paul and Poker Face
Post Date: 2011-10-14 06:12:12 by HOUNDDAWG
Keywords: None
Views: 790
Comments: 66
Introduction: In early July, 2000 Alvis Delk, assisted by James Bishop (both of Stephenville, Texas), was working in the Cretaceous limestone on the McFall property at the Paluxy River near Glen Rose, Texas and discovered a pristine human footprint intruded by a dinosaur footprint. This discovery was made in the vicinity of McFall I and II Sites where the Creation Evidence Museum team has excavated since the Spring of 1982. The eleven-inch human footprint matches seven other such footprints of the same dimensions in the “Sir George Series,” named in honor of His Excellency Governor General Ratu Sir George Cacobau of Fiji.[2] Scientific Verification of Footprint Authenticity: The fossil was transported to a professional laboratory where 800 X-rays were performed in a CT Scan procedure. Laboratory technicians verified compression and distribution features clearly seen in both prints, human and dinosaur. This removes any possibility that the prints were carved or altered. Importance of Discovery: Professor James Stewart Monroe, writing in Journal of Geological Education candidly asserted that “Human footprints in geologically ancient strata would indeed call into doubt many conventional geological concepts.”[3] Professor David H. Milne of The Evergreen State College, Olympia, Washington and Professor Steven D. Schafersman of the Department of Geology, Rice University, Houston, Texas made further admissions in writing that “Such an occurrence, if verified, would seriously disrupt conventional interpretations of biological and geological history and would support the doctrines of creationism and catastrophism.”[4] Professor Steven M. Stanley in The New Evolutionary Timetable opined that “any topsy-turvy sequence of fossils would force us to rethink our theory…As Darwin recognized, a single geographic inconsistency would have nearly the same power of destruction.”[5]
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#14. To: Pinguinite, Critter (#13)
(Edited)
lol.......you and critter forgot to calculate entropy and time into the formula. : ) The mass of a dead body begins deteriorating the moment the life force exits and rapidly.
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
Lessee - that would be Mass (m) multiplied by decomposition rate per unit time (D) multiplied by the number of times the entire surface of the earth has been subsumed into a subduction zone and renewed all based upon the amount of time (t) over which the sequence of events took place. Looks like a tensor with respect to time. Anyone care to do the math?
I seem to have misplaced my calculator......lol
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
I hope you are as amused as I was while running these numbers! But Critter did say there would be that number living today. That's not the number of people that ever lived -- that's living today. I do understand that this is an argument against humanity walking the earth as long as alleged, but obviously there would be some limiting factors kicking in long before the above number was reached.
Personally, I think humans have been around a LONG time but the herd has been culled whenever the ratio of idiots and assholes overwhelms the tiny fraction that maintain reason and sanity.......hence, we are due for another culling. We could never attain Critter's numbers of humans as this species isn't equipped spiritually to handle that capacity.
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
Gerald is supposed to be on Rense tonight. Lidsay didn't have anything new last night, I was finding some comedy in his "ground breaking" sharing of "new" information that has been bantered about for months and months and months now. : )
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
Personally, I think humans have been around a LONG time but the herd has been culled whenever the ratio of idiots and assholes overwhelms the tiny fraction that maintain reason and sanity.......hence, we are due for another culling. We could never attain Critter's numbers of humans as this species isn't equipped spiritually to handle that capacity. What she said. One cavil: "...this species isn't equipped spiritually to handle that capacity." At this point in time.
I hope he is on, and I hope I get home in time to listen. Gotta head out for an appointment in a minute. Oh, you just need to find a bigger calculator. I'd try HP. ;-)
I've actually been there...there's only dinosaur prints.
Patriotism is a religion, the egg from which wars are hatched.” Guy de Maupassant
The population of the earth has doubled twice in the last 100 years, despite the 150 or so million killed in probably the bloodiest century ever. To arrive at today's population, from a single ancestral pair 2 million years ago, the population would have had to double only 32 or 33 times, or once every 60,000 years or so. It is beyond retarded to believe that could be the case.
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Hi OI, Nutshell - the lab put out their calculations and the standard methods used and have come up with some topsyturvy results. So the published them with no comments or conclusions. The press immeadiatly claimed that "faster than light" etc. This is all press. Sells papers - and in this case lets us think about physics again. So that is OK
several articles in The American Biology Teacher, esp. "Footprints in Stone and Biology Teaching" by H. Murray Long, vol. 46, nr.1 (January 1984) pages 31-35. A careful study of the "human footprints" shows that they're not really human, that they don't have the characteristics of real human footprints ... and efforts to track those "human footprints" show a stride that often exceeds 4 feet. Other studies have interviewed local oldtimers about what was going on when the dinosaur tracks were first being touted as a tourist attraction.
What evidence is there that those are human prints?
Yep, read that too. Appears to be a true story, but of course there's no publically available PROOF of such, except for the newspaper article. This "human print" under fossil thing appears to be some wishful thinking though, the print doesn't even seem like a real footprint, never mind a human footprint. It could have been CARVED that long ago though. However, I don't see a human footprint there, just a crude attempt to draw something that has five toes or fingers.
H. Murray Who? Perhaps this unknown was the designated hatchet man at The American Biology Teacher who was assigned the task of whistling past the cemetery. And fielding an unknown with no credentials (is he the maintenance superintendent?) to stake is quite telling. I suspect that nothing short of a lightning bolt from Jehovah Yahweh himself, (One Universe Way, Divine Galaxy, Heaven Above) would force any of the establishment publications or institutions to acknowledge any evidence that conflicts with the official pseudo scientific fairie tale. The pyramids adjacent to Cuba are clearly not natural formations and the depth of the water alone is evidence of the lies we are told about the length of time MAN has been on Earth. The researcher who attempted to expose that evidence as well as the giant structures that were visible off the coast of India during the Tsunami low tide is routinely character assassinated by establishment pimps. Although you're always energetic and the first to pounce to protect the wormy system, your haughty self assured performance is so obviously done in haste that a visual representation would look like this:
What evidence is there that those are human prints? If you discovered those prints on your property how much time and money would you spend trying to discredit the obvious implications? That's not how it's done. If you or any other skeptic/critic wishes to challenge the evidence then it's up to you to provide evidence of tool marks and/or sandblasting or other evidence of fraud. If I know I committed no fraud then only a seriously deficient mind would suggest that I'm obligated to first accuse and then prove the case against myself. Your question suggests that all challenges to the dogma must be resolved prior to public exposure to insulate the Pollyannas among us from intellectual stimulation or controversy. In any case I apologize if my post overtaxed anyone's resources.
Gotta love math. :) That may seem logical but what about extinction level events along the way that may have wiped out large numbers of inhabitants. In the absence of hard numbers (before and after, and how many times has the board been swept clean?) that would be a large variable-unknown-X factor that would not readily compute. And other factors (such as potato famines) could seriously alter the normal reproduction and survival rates of various regions. Figures don't lie but liars figure! We are stranded with four flat tires until all those with agendas have been "factored out", and as you can see we have not yet begun to realize that. I'm not convinced of anything except that in our culture the established authorities and their groupies will lie faster than a (bi pedal) horse can trot to avoid any admission of ignorance and to protect their robes of omniscience, regardless of how deserving they are to wear them. Remember according to "our intractable laws of physics and well established scientific principles" a honeybee should be incapable of flight. And many of the same eggheads who are at a loss to explain that will tell us with absolute certainty when and how the universe was formed and savage any who question their absolute conclusions.
I believe that the origin contains elements of BOTH Creation and Evolution. There does seem to be overwhelming fossil evidence (involving the lower jawbones of the animals involved) that the mammals came from reptiles through a class of animals once considered reptiles but no longer considered as such by Cladist Evolutionists called the Synapsida. However when it comes to the population of the world with animals the Bible tells us that He MADE the animals from the earth. He did NOT create them ex-nilo. The evidence for this consists of the gradual reduction of the Quadrate and Articular bones of the lower jaw and the skull as Synapsids advance until they become the Ossicle and Hammer bones of the middle ear. The development of Marsupial mammals also goes through a "Synapsid" stage where they have a standard reptilian Quadrate Articular jaw hinge that shrinks and migrates to the middle ear as the hammer and ossicle bones. Take as a forinstance our favorite invention from our own time, the GUN. While an inanimate object the history of the gun is that of Evolution guided by Intellegent Design. When you take the Intellegent Design out of the picture an and basically say that things make themselves like the Atheistic Evolutionsist do an AK-47 as a forinstance is simply an evolvoved Russian percussion cap musket. The same with your "wonder nine" Barreta or Glock It is sumply the current state of evolution of the Eurpean percussion cap dueling postol. I am of the view that God could have made animals from other animals because the Bible tells us this is true with our own species. It clearly states that God made woman from man. It is also within the relm of possibility that God added the genes needed to eventually produce mammals in the group of reptiles that became the Synapsida and eventually the mammals themselves
The introduction to that book is on the internet and it's very good. Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein "...if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..." Lawrence M. Vance Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)
The funny thing about this book is that I could not find it for sale anywhere in the USA. I had to buy it from a UK bookseller.
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I have looked for it here too but couldn't find it.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein "...if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..." Lawrence M. Vance Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)
Mathematicians with access to more data than myself at moment, have come up with a figure of about 168 years, as the average amount of time it has taken for human population to double throughout written history. Even if we suppose an average of 10 times that, or 1680 years, we could have populated the earth to current levels 35 times. That would have left behind trillions of human remains and archeologists just haven't found anything resembling those kinds of numbers.
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I got it here: www.vitalminerals.org/zen...duct_info&products_id=235 It takes about a week to get it.
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Thanks Critter.
Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein "...if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..." Lawrence M. Vance Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)
The purported "human" prints at Paluxy look more like outlines of a foot -- though not always in normal human proportions -- and do not display the "squish" that would naturally occur from a human foot walking or running in sand or mud. Moreover, attempts to track the supposed human prints are usually futile -- as if the human somehow put one foot down in the middle of the riverbed and then FLEW away without putting down the other foot or taking a step; the "human" prints are isolated this way. The usual scientific explanation is that the "human" prints are actually partials of dinosaur prints -- that is, just the part of the dinosaur's foot if it were running or backing up or something -- and sometimes these isolated "human" prints line up with obvious dinosaur tracks so this is pretty indisputable.
I'd say that there are a few possibilities, but fraud is not the only one. 1) Fraud 2) It's possible it's not a human foot print but maybe a combination of 2 footprints that by sheer chance appears to be a single human/primate footprint. 3) Maybe it's not a footprint at all but a chance natural imprint from a log and maybe some stones? 4) Is it possible that the object could have been first fossilized with a dino print and then somehow resoftened through some unknown natural processs within the last several thousand years where it acquired the second print? This is certainly a stretch at best, but... *perhaps* not as much of a stretch to conclude humans lived with dinos. 5) Maybe the human print is real but the dino print was not from a dino, but from something much more recent, perhaps from some ceremonial object made by humans responsible for the print? Not all equally likely, of course but possibilities to be discounted nonetheless.
Rense duped us again......grrrrrr.
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
6) Maybe it is Bigfoot or Yeti.....those creatures are far more crafty than humans. : )
" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
DNA tests have shown that at one point human populations were reduced to near extinction. Who is to say it didn't happen more than once?
Not trying to make the Nazi comparison here but didn't Hitler do something similar. Wasn't he always trying to rewrite history and twist archeology to fit his agenda. Interesting side note, not talking specifics here, just concepts. If Hitler's archeology versions were correct, they would not be accepted based solely on source.
The problem of course with anomalous evidence such as the Paluxy River tracks is that they do not fit within the established limits of the standard evolution theory. So, like a lot of other contrary, or out of place, evidenciary anomalies the kneejerk response of the established academic order is to label it a fraud and look for every way possible, no matter how specious, to be able to give it a "refuted" label and then quickly sweep it under the carpet. On the other end of the spectrum Biblical Creationists wish to use each and every anomaly to validate their particular set of beliefs. Neither group is engaging in science and both are operating from a faith based system. For the record I am neither a strict evolutionist nor a "Young Earth" Creationist. I find both to be hopelessly biased and too busy supporting or disparaging data which does not fit within the narrow framework of their biases. In the case of the Darwinists their god is Darwinian Materialism and a rejection of other religious beliefs and for the Biblical Creationists each and every possible evidence is seized on in a rampage of, "Seee!, seeeeeeeeeee!," we're right and your're wrong - thhhhhhhhhhhhhppppppp!!! Of course the real application of the Scientific Method is to examine the evidence, and attempt to see what the evidence tells you without preconceptions of what it has to mean, or that if it does not agree with established theory it is, of course, a fraud. So, if one is following the scientific method the question is, "What does the evidence tell us?," and not an automatic assumption that it is fraudulent or confirms some other belief. I repeat is always, always, always, to the objective investigator, "WHAT DOES THE EVIDENCE TELL US?" The following article, although written by a "Young Earth Creationist" is otherwise a fairly objective explanation of the basic data set. Again I am NOT a "Young Earth Creationist", but do believe that there is a motive force of a non-material nature which drives the engine called creation, and evolution. As a side issue I believe the physical universe is likely much much older than any dare publicly posit and that "creation" is an event that has been repeated over and over down the course of the trilennia. Author: Doug Sharp The Revolution Against Evolution team joined Dr. Carl Baugh of the Creation Evidence Museum in an excavation of a dinosaur track sequence on the Paluxy riverbank at the McFall ranch just north of Dinosaur Valley State Park near Glen Rose, Texas. This dig took place July 5 thru 16, 2004 and we participated in the second week July 12 - 16. This site is the subject of much controversy and speculation, since there are also many tracks that appear to be human footprints. They are of interest to creationists, since if dinosaur and human tracks are found together, this would appear to support the creationist idea that dinosaurs lived in recent times, before Noah's flood, and for some time afterward. Creationists believe that the dragons of legend are the dinosaurs of science, because depictions of such creatures in historical documents often make an uncanny match to the morphology of known dinosaurs. Because Dr. Baugh has dedicated much of his research toward the study of these tracks, he is the subject of much attack and scrutiny. There are many anti-Baugh web sites on the Internet, and since Dr. Baugh is the subject of many discussions among creationists and evolutionists alike, I do not wish to rehash any of this controversy here. My interest was to view the track for myself by participating in a dig. I feel that the personal nature of the attacks against the credibility Dr. Baugh are a smokescreen to distract people from the real issues. With or without Dr. Baugh, the tracks have a story to tell, and my interest was to observe and report what we found. In this essay we support Dr. Baugh in regards to what we observed on this particular dig and the evidence from the tracks themselves. He has done research in many other areas that are controversial, and we will not attempt to speak for him regarding those issues. During the time we were at the excavation, the team uncovered 10 new dinosaur tracks, and one new track that looked like a human slide print. This area had seen previous work by other teams. The excavation we participated in extended the known track sequence to 46 continuous prints. This is one of the longest dinosaur track sequences in North America. The longest sequence in the Western Hemisphere, 136 prints, is the Turnage-Patton trail, found in the middle of the Paluxy river bed, less than a mile from the excavation site. One of the impressions we got at the dig site was the way the excavation was done in a professional manner. The dig site consisted of a layer of limestone, then a layer of clay, overlying the limestone layer in which the tracks lay. The limestone cap was carefully removed with a jackhammer, exposing the clay layer, which we excavated inch by inch using the chisel end of a masonry hammer, and if a track was found, the clay would be carefully removed with the handle end of a brush that had been sharpened to a point. As the tracks were exposed, each one was measured and documented as to their size and position in relation to each other. The dirt that was removed from the top of the tracks was sifted and examined for fossils. Evolutionists accuse Dr. Baugh and his team of "carving" the tracks. Here are the reasons why this could not be the case: (1) The dig is open to anyone who wishes to sign up, and skeptics are invited to participate. Often families with children participate. (2) Whenever a new track is found, the uncovering of the track is documented by videotape. (3) Many people participate in the dig, so that there are many eyewitnesses. (4) Each track is excavated by several people as a team. (5) Potential tracks are eliminated from consideration if there are no or few identifying features, such as a heel, toes, push-up marks. (6) Many of the locals from Glen Rose participate in all of the digs, and provide additional consistent verification. We were instructed to not call a track "human" unless it exhibited unmistakable human characteristics, such as toes or an arch. Unfortunately, these features are subject to erosion, and such a find at the Paluxy is quite rare. Several of the best tracks are on display at the Creation Evidence Museum, and the Beverly track (named for Carl Baugh's daughter), is one of the best. It is a human impression inside of a dinosaur track, and the human impression shows all of the toes. This track was found at the dig site during an earlier excavation, and the purpose of the excavation was to see if more tracks of that trail could be found. Another similar track was found on the Taylor trail, in the middle of the river bed about a half-mile from the dig site. Another criteria that strengthens the case for a track to be human would be to find it in a sequence of other tracks, and for it to match a human stride. The Taylor trail fits this criteria. The track we found at the dig site did not have these features, and would not help our case, unless it is found to be one of a sequence yet to be established. We interviewed participants from the previous dig where the "Beverly" track was excavated, and were shown the spot where the track was cut out of the rock strata. They verified that the same careful excavation methods used in the present dig were followed during the excavation of the "Beverly" track. Quasi-human tracks actually are quite common at the Paluxy. At the Moss crossing, the Dougherty trail is found next to a good trail of dinosaur tracks, and if you wade out into the river, you can put your feet in them and find that the fit is pretty good. But because these have been exposed for a number of years, the toe features have been eroded away, leaving only heel prints. You can also find quite a few poorly-defined quasi-human tracks at Dinosaur Valley State Park, at the spot where you can cross the river on stepping stones. After you cross the river, the tracks are just to the left of where the excavation of several dinosaur prints is roped off. In-situ tracks quickly erode once they are exposed, so researchers, when they find a good track, try to cut it out of the rock, document its position, and preserve it that way. Of course, if this is done, an evolutionist can always say that it was carved, or the documentation was staged, or whatever. But the abundance of quasi-human tracks, in my mind, actually strengthens our position, because that is what you would expect to find if they are real, especially if the people who made these tracks wore moccasins or shoes. We created an experiment where we laid down some mud, created some fresh tracks, and documented how they looked. Even in these fresh tracks, very few of them showed the toes, and many of the tracks after they dried, collapsed and became featureless. Those participating in Dr. Baugh's dig can testify that nobody at the dig site is "carving" the tracks, as is the nonsense perpetuated by some evolutionists. We have too many eyewitnesses verifying the dig technique that will tell you that is not true. We watched ten new dinosaur tracks emerge from underneath one foot of overlying rock, observed the technique by which they were revealed, and videotaped the procedure. Since we interviewed eyewitnesses by video, testifying that the same procedure was used in excavating the tracks exhibited in the museum, we would say that was strong evidence that the Beverly track, the Taylor trail tracks and others like it were not fabricated. So, would an evolutionist accuse Dr. Baugh of carving the tracks, covering them with dirt and a six-inch layer of limestone, only to be rediscovered again by creationists digging them up? Or would they accuse Dr. Baugh of carving the tracks, especially since he did very little of the excavation work himself? Hardly likely. Investigations of the Taylor trail by evolutionists concluded a number of years ago that the tracks thought to be human were actually dinosaur tracks. However, the local Texans we interviewed, who know these tracks, say that they have changed in appearance over time, and that might be what you would expect if a human trail actually stepped into dinosaur tracks for a short distance, making a human impression on top of the dinosaur track. In such a case, as the track erodes, the human impression would give way to the dinosaur track. It was this problem that caused the Institute for Creation Research and Answers in Genesis to qualify their support for these track being human, basically because the human impressions have eroded to the point that they are not recognizable. But it is in error to say that they have abandoned their support for these tracks. This particular dig involved the participation of an Answers in Genesis geologist, and it was his wife that excavated the quasi-human track. One of the locals, Dave Hall, took our group wading in the river looking for the Taylor trail. This trail is normally exposed at this time of year, but it was a wet summer, and the tracks were covered with silt and one to three feet of water. No photographs of the trail were possible, but the group's encounter with a water moccasin was quite memorable and you can watch it on video. Also, visit the photo gallery of the dig. Our conclusion is that the claim for a human origin of the tracks is reasonable to believe. For the creationist, this will never be Class "A" evidence, beyond controversy. None of the tracks we saw in situ would have been incontrovertible evidence that would persuade any die-hard evolutionist. But the circumstantial evidence is compelling to those of us who already are convinced of the young-earth creationist model. We anticipate that further efforts by new digs with Dr. Baugh and other groups will find additional evidence at the Paluxy River.
So, if one is following the scientific method the question is, "What does the evidence tell us?," and not an automatic assumption that it is fraudulent or confirms some other belief. I repeat is always, always, always, to the objective investigator, "WHAT DOES THE EVIDENCE TELL US?" And as we have seen in climate science, a healthy dose of skepticism needs to be applied to both supporting and contrary results.
It would have needed to happen about 400 times.
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This is consistent with the Toba catastrophe theory that suggests that a bottleneck of the human population occurred c. 70,000 years ago, proposing that the human population was reduced to perhaps 15,000 individuals[4] when the Toba supervolcano in Indonesia erupted and triggered a major environmental change. The theory is based on geological evidences of sudden climate change and on coalescence evidences of some genes (including mitochondrial DNA, Y-chromosome and some nuclear genes)[5] and the relatively low level of genetic variation with humans.[4] However, such coalescence is genetically expected and does not, in itself, indicate a population bottleneck, because mitochondrial DNA and Y-chromosome DNA are only a small part of the entire genome, and are atypical in that they are inherited exclusively through the mother or through the father, respectively. Most genes in the genome are inherited from either father or mother, and thus can be traced back in time via either matrilineal or patrilineal ancestry.[6] Research on many genes finds different coalescence points from 2 million years ago to 60,000 years ago when different genes are considered, thus disproving the existence of more recent extreme bottlenecks (i.e., a single breeding pair).[4][7] On the other hand, in 2000, a Molecular Biology and Evolution paper suggested a transplanting model or a 'long bottleneck' to account for the limited genetic variation, rather than a catastrophic environmental change.[8] This would be consistent with suggestions that in sub-Saharan Africa numbers could have dropped at times as low as 2,000, for perhaps as long as 100,000 years, before numbers began to expand again in the Late Stone Age.[9]
Nuclear wars tend to do that. And yes I think it entirely possible there as been more than one near extinction event. One of the more popular theories on the rise of agriculture, called the Hilly Flanks Theory, posits that the climate zone of the hilly shoulders of the mountains of the Middle East were ideal for the rise of agriculture. However, my own thought, is that they would also be the most survivable zone following a nuclear war. In a nutshell the Hilly Flanks theory of Robert Braidwood argues that the conditions on the hilly flanks of the mountains got sufficient rainfall and offered a more temperate climate than the regions around. Lower down it was hot and dry, thus requiring irrigation that had not yet been developed, and higher up it was too cold and too dry. My point is that in an environment following a nuclear war up high people would be exposed to more hard radiation in the atmosphere, and down low the accumulated radioactive runoff would make the valleys hot zones. It would be the hilly flanks that would be best flushed by rainfall and still have enough atmosphere above to shield from the combination of high ambient atmospheric radiation combined with solar and cosmic radiation. So, the hilly flanks would be the most survivable and likely produce the fewest dead end mutations. So, I would suggest that Braidwood was right, but for the wrong reasons. In a post nuclear war environment the hilly flanks would have the least hard radiation as spring runoff would carry a lot of it into the valleys and so by the flushing of the rain there would be less, not eliminated but less, radiation to contend with.
HERETIC! Here you are preaching catastrophism. Just because the evidence points out repeated planetary catastrophes is no reason to ignore what all of the academics have written. Word!
I can hardly say the word but am convinced of its geologic truth. At least in the arid south west.
Yes. The problem is that some people treat their pet theories as absolutes and, "Evidence be damned!" It is like the I can hardly say the word but am convinced of its geologic truth. At least in the arid south west. As much as the Uniformitarians kick and scream the mounting evidence supports catastrophism as a geologic reality. Of course they really don't like going there for a variety of reasons. Atlantis (or Poseidia as some name it) is one of them. The existence of a Mid-Atlantic Island-Continent ca. 10,000 to 11,500 B.C. presents a real problem for lamestream academics because to admit its existence destroys much of the theory that has built up since the late 1800s e.g., Darwin, Darwin, Darwin, Leakey, and Hutton. It would force a complete reevaluation of what we know about human history and theories of prehistory.
Ping. A discussion you might enjoy.
And indisputibly in the Washington Oregon massive erosion of 20,000 ago.
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Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latestif we just compute the size of this mass of (former) humanity if it were rolled up into a ball,
#15. To: abraxas, Pinguinite, Critter (#14)
#16. To: Original_Intent (#15)
Anyone care to do the math?
#17. To: abraxas (#14)
lol.
#18. To: Pinguinite, Critter, Original_Intent (#17)
I do understand that this is an argument against humanity walking the earth as long as alleged, but obviously there would be some limiting factors kicking in long before the above number was reached.
#19. To: Original_Intent (#15)
(Edited)
#20. To: abraxas (#18)
I do understand that this is an argument against humanity walking the earth as long as alleged, but obviously there would be some limiting factors kicking in long before the above number was reached.
#21. To: abraxas (#19)
Gerald is supposed to be on Rense tonight. Lidsay didn't have anything new last night, I was finding some comedy in his "ground breaking" sharing of "new" information that has been bantered about for months and months and months now. : )
#22. To: HOUNDDAWG (#0)
#23. To: Shoonra (#7)
We are not allowed to make a decision as mundane as what kind of lightbulb we're going to use anymore, but we're allowed to choose who runs the city, state, and fedgoob? Give me a break. - Esso
#24. To: Original_Intent (#8)
ust as in another sphere the recent observation of neutrinos apparently exceeding the speed of light throws decades of scientific theory into question. If the initial observation is confirmed then modern physics MUST be rewritten to accommodate the new data.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" 
#25. To: HOUNDDAWG (#10)
No real human prints at Paluxy. Could you source this confident assertion please?
#26. To: HOUNDDAWG (#10)
Could you source this confident assertion please?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#27. To: Original_Intent (#12)
The most intriguing, for me, was the find in the Grand Canyon around the turn of the last century. An explorer found a cave system which supposedly had Egyptian artifacts in great quantity. The Smithsonian mounted an expedition, which was reported on by the local newspaper - The Arizona Gazette if I recall correctly - which chronicled their taking away several boxcar loads of artifacts from the site. They have never been seen again and if you ask the Smithsonian about them today they will deny that it ever happened.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#28. To: Shoonra, Original_Intent, James Deffenbach, christine (#25)
#29. To: FormerLurker, Pinguinite (#26)
Could you source this confident assertion please?
#30. To: Critter (#3)
Starting with two original ancestors, it would take 4,400 years to arrive at today's population, using historical population growth rates.
#31. To: Original_Intent (#8)
(Edited)
The FARO RESERVE BANK!!! 
#32. To: Critter (#3)
I just finished reading Origins, by Phillip Day.
#33. To: James Deffenbach (#32)
We are not allowed to make a decision as mundane as what kind of lightbulb we're going to use anymore, but we're allowed to choose who runs the city, state, and fedgoob? Give me a break. - Esso
#34. To: Critter (#33)
The funny thing about this book is that I could not find it for sale anywhere in the USA. I had to buy it from a UK bookseller.
#35. To: HOUNDDAWG (#30)
That may seem logical but what about extinction level events
We are not allowed to make a decision as mundane as what kind of lightbulb we're going to use anymore, but we're allowed to choose who runs the city, state, and fedgoob? Give me a break. - Esso
#36. To: James Deffenbach (#34)
We are not allowed to make a decision as mundane as what kind of lightbulb we're going to use anymore, but we're allowed to choose who runs the city, state, and fedgoob? Give me a break. - Esso
#37. To: Critter (#36)
#38. To: HOUNDDAWG (#29)
(Edited)
#39. To: HOUNDDAWG (#29)
#40. To: Original_Intent (#21)
#41. To: Pinguinite (#39)
#42. To: Critter, Original_Intent (#3)
#43. To: Original_Intent (#12)
The Smithsonian is not a reliable source as they have been caught retouching and "disappearing" unusual finds that contradict the "official story". The Smithsonian is funded by, and was begun by, the Robber Baron's to further their own ends and their preferred story for public consumption.
#44. To: HOUNDDAWG, Shoonra, wudidiz, Coral Snake, Pinguinite, all (#0)
(Edited)
#45. To: Original_Intent (#44)
Of course the real application of the Scientific Method is to examine the evidence, and attempt to see what the evidence tells you without preconceptions of what it has to mean, or that if it does not agree with established theory it is, of course, a fraud.
#46. To: farmfriend (#42)
DNA tests have shown that at one point human populations were reduced to near extinction. Who is to say it didn't happen more than once?
We are not allowed to make a decision as mundane as what kind of lightbulb we're going to use anymore, but we're allowed to choose who runs the city, state, and fedgoob? Give me a break. - Esso
#47. To: Critter (#46)
It would have needed to happen about 400 times.
Evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins has postulated that human mitochondrial DNA (inherited only from one's mother) and Y chromosome DNA (from one's father) show coalescence at around 140,000 and 60,000 years ago, respectively. In other words, all living humans' female line ancestry can be traced back to a single female (Mitochondrial Eve) at around 140,000 years ago. Via the male line, all humans can trace their ancestry back to a single male (Y-chromosomal Adam) at around 60,000 to 90,000 years ago.[3]
#48. To: farmfriend (#42)
DNA tests have shown that at one point human populations were reduced to near extinction. Who is to say it didn't happen more than once?
#49. To: farmfriend (#47)
#50. To: Original_Intent (#49)
Here you are preaching catastrophism.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#51. To: farmfriend (#45)
And as we have seen in climate science, a healthy dose of skepticism needs to be applied to both supporting and contrary results.
Skeptical Septical Enquirer crowd - anything which does not conform with previously accepted theory is by definition "kookery".
#52. To: tom007 (#50)
Here you are preaching catastrophism.
#53. To: abraxas (#48)
#54. To: All (#50)
At least in the arid south west.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
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