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Editorial
See other Editorial Articles

Title: 'Occupy Wall Street' -- It's Not What They're for, But What They're Against (this on FoxNews)
Source: FoxNews
URL Source: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011 ... erstanding-occupy-wall-street/
Published: Oct 16, 2011
Author: Sally Kohn
Post Date: 2011-10-16 23:57:47 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 214
Comments: 12

Critics of the growing Occupy Wall Street movement complain that the protesters don’t have a policy agenda and, therefore, don’t stand for anything. They're wrong. The key isn’t what protesters are for but rather what they’re against -- the gaping inequality that has poisoned our economy, our politics and our nation.

In America today, 400 people have more wealth than the bottom 150 million combined. That’s not because 150 million Americans are pathetically lazy or even unlucky. In fact, Americans have been working harder than ever -- productivity has risen in the last several decades. Big business profits and CEO bonuses have also gone up. Worker salaries, however, have declined.

Most of the Occupy Wall Street protesters aren’t opposed to free market capitalism. In fact, what they want is an end to the crony capitalist system now in place, that makes it easier for the rich and powerful to get even more rich and powerful while making it increasingly hard for the rest of us to get by. The protesters are not anti-American radicals. They are the defenders of the American Dream, the decision from the birth of our nation that success should be determined by hard work not royal bloodlines.

Sure, bank executives may work a lot harder than you and me or a mother of three doing checkout at a grocery store. Maybe the bankers work ten times harder. Maybe even a hundred times harder. But they’re compensated a thousand times more.

The question is not how Occupy Wall Street protesters can find that gross discrepancy immoral. The question is why every one of us isn’t protesting with them.

According to polls, most Americans support the 99% movement, even if they’re not taking to the streets. In fact, support for the Occupy Wall Street protests is not only higher than for either political party in Washington but greater than support for the Tea Party. And unlike the Tea Party which was fueled by national conservative donors and institutions, the Occupy Wall Street Movement is spreading organically from Idaho to Indiana. Institutions on the left, including unions, have been relatively late to the game.

Ironically, the original Boston Tea Party activists would likely support Occupy Wall Street more as well. Note that the original Tea Party didn’t protest taxes, merely the idea of taxation without representation -- and they were actually protesting the crown-backed monopoly of the East India Company, the main big business of the day.

Americans today also support taxes. In fact, two-thirds of voters -- including a majority of Republicans -- support increasing taxes on the rich, something the Occupy Wall Street protests implicitly support. That’s not just anarchist lefty kids. Soccer moms and construction workers and, yes, even some bankers want to see our economy work for the 99%, not just the 1%, and are flocking to Occupy protests in droves.

I’ve even met a number of Libertarians and Tea Party conservatives at these protests. So the critics are right, the Occupy Wall Street movement isn’t the Tea Party. Occupy Wall Street is much, much broader.

Maybe it’s hard to see your best interests reflected in a sometimes rag-tag, inarticulate, imperfect group of protesters. But make no mistake about it: While horrendous inequality is not an American tradition, protest is.And if you’re part of the 99% of underpaid or unemployed Americans crushed in the current economy, the Occupy Wall Street protests are your best chance at fixing the broken economy that is breaking your back.

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#1. To: christine (#0)

The term Fox News is like the term Country and Western Music... both are oxymorons watched/listed to by obnoxious morons.

bush_is_a_moonie  posted on  2011-10-17   0:09:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: christine (#0)

They are the defenders of the American Dream, the decision from the birth of our nation that success should be determined by hard work not royal bloodlines.

Lets see look at the last 20 years.... Bush,Clinton , Clinton ,Bush,Bush, Clinton (As seceratary of state with carries power in its own right)

I looks like the democratic republic died looking at the rotating kingship position...

Yaup.... they may not know what they want...but the do have a good grasp on what they DONT want.


I support the occupation

titorite  posted on  2011-10-17   0:45:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: christine (#0)

Oh, they are for something all right but if their list of demands are what most of them want I certainly don't want anything to do with their protest.

Proposed List Of Demands For Occupy Wall St Movement!

Demand one: Restoration of the living wage. This demand can only be met by ending "Freetrade" by re-imposing trade tariffs on all imported goods entering the American market to level the playing field for domestic family farming and domestic manufacturing as most nations that are dumping cheap products onto the American market have radical wage and environmental regulation advantages. Another policy that must be instituted is raise the minimum wage to twenty dollars an hr.

In a free economy the government does not set wage levels. They are determined by the people who need work done and those willing to do the work. I have no issue with tariffs since the Constitution does allow for them--in fact I believe the government should be funded primarily through tariffs and perhaps excise taxes (taxes on things like gas, alcohol, etc.).

Demand two: Institute a universal single payer healthcare system. To do this all private insurers must be banned from the healthcare market as their only effect on the health of patients is to take money away from doctors, nurses and hospitals preventing them from doing their jobs and hand that money to wall st. investors.

Um, no. That is what Obama's idiotic health care plan is trying to do and it has never worked anywhere else so I don't know why they think it will work here. Besides that, Obama has a provision in his plan that REQUIRES Americans to buy health insurance. Congress doesn't have the authority under the Constitution to do that and Obama certainly doesn't. If they can tell you that you have to buy health insurance they can also, if they choose to do so, tell you that you have to buy a car and even a certain kind of car.

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

You can just see how well that would work, can't you? If you give people enough money to live on and reward sloth and laziness you will get more of it. It is true with most things in life. Reward what you want more of and punish what you want less of. This stupid idea alone would bankrupt any nation.

Demand four: Free college education.

Exactly who is going to pay for all this "free" stuff these stupid, mindless efs are demanding? Not the government, the government has no money other than what it steals from the people. So their demands for all this free stuff is just communist/socialist bs.

Demand five: Begin a fast track process to bring the fossil fuel economy to an end while at the same bringing the alternative energy economy up to energy demand.

Just one more area where they show they may not know very much about the issue they are yammering about. "Fossil fuels" is a fairy tale. Can you imagine how many dinosaurs it would have taken to make all the oil and gas that has already been discovered and used? The earth would have had to have been completely overrun with them and for a very long time. People who believe in the "fossil fuel" theory should do a bit of studying about abiotic oil.

Demand six: One trillion dollars in infrastructure (Water, Sewer, Rail, Roads and Bridges and Electrical Grid) spending now.

Once again, the money has to come from somewhere and the government does NOT have any money. Infrastructure can be repaired, replaced and rebuilt through excise taxes on gas and things like that but the government doesn't have a "trillion dollars" to spend NOW on anything. The fact is that the US is in debt (when all the unfunded liabilities are included) more than 100 trillion dollars, a figure so large as to be pretty much meaningless. It can never be repaid. So they are talking foolishness to add another trillion and demand that it be done NOW.

Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.

Even more bs from ignorant people. I already talked about this insane demand to spend a trillion dollars on anything right now and not just because the US is broke. But with their plans the politicians will be rewarding some at the expense of others and the fact is that it is not theirs to give and the government is not supposed to be in the business of picking winners and losers. We have a very big scandal right now involving Obama, the Department of Justice and the Department of Energy. Seems that Obama rewarded some big campaign contributors with more than half a billion dollars of taxpayers money. A company called Solyndra which was supposed to be making solar panels. They declared bankruptcy not long ago after the government gave them over half a billion dollars. Someone made out like a bandit but it wasn't the American people.

Demand eight: Racial and gender equal rights amendment.

More stupidity. Unless by racial equal rights they mean to quit discriminating against white people in favor of all other groups then they don't have a point. And we have gender equality in as much as that is possible. Women can do any job a man can do if she is qualified to do it. What these people want are preferences and set asides, not based on ability but on things like race and sex.

Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.

Another insane idea. Without borders you don't have a nation. One of the problems in America right now is that the politicians have allowed illegal aliens to disrespect the immigration laws. Mexican politicians are bad to whine about any immigration law in the US but their immigration laws in Mexico are much more strict and far more strictly enforced than ours are.

Demand ten: Bring American elections up to international standards of a paper ballot precinct counted and recounted in front of an independent and party observers system.

In their whole list, this is one of the two things that make any sense. I also think we should go back to paper ballots and counted and recounted (when necessary) by independents and party observers. I find no fault in that one.

Demand eleven: Immediate across the board debt forgiveness for all. Debt forgiveness of sovereign debt, commercial loans, home mortgages, home equity loans, credit card debt, student loans and personal loans now! All debt must be stricken from the "Books." World Bank Loans to all Nations, Bank to Bank Debt and all Bonds and Margin Call Debt in the stock market including all Derivatives or Credit Default Swaps, all 65 trillion dollars of them must also be stricken from the "Books." And I don't mean debt that is in default, I mean all debt on the entire planet period.

Since the "money" that has been loaned is nothing more than bookkeeping entries and since it would be impossible for the US to pay its debt I don't find much fault with this one either. But the government should have never been in the business of making student loans and the US should never have been funding the "World Bank." There is no authority in our Constitution for either thing (nor for a lot of other things they do).

Demand twelve: Outlaw all credit reporting agencies.

This is not a great idea. Say someone came to you and wanted to borrow ten thousand dollars. Assuming you had it to loan and thought enough of the person to take a chance on him (or her) wouldn't you want to be able to find out whether they would in fact pay you back? Credit reporting agencies serve a useful function so long as people need credit.

Demand thirteen: Allow all workers to sign a ballot at any time during a union organizing campaign or at any time that represents their yeah or nay to having a union represent them in collective bargaining or to form a union.

This one is not objectionable from a libertarian point of view. People should be allowed to vote for a union if they choose to do so but they also need to understand that many times the unions promote things which are inimical to their interests (like some of the biggest unions supporting Obama for example). That hasn't worked out so well for the country. Still, if people want to be members of unions they can. By the same token, companies in right to work states (like North Carolina) can fire them if they make demands that can't be met and then hire new workers who would be glad to have the job. Everyone's freedom of association is protected that way. Sometimes union people vote themselves right out of a job.

These demands will create so many jobs it will be completely impossible to fill them without an open borders policy.

These insane demands, if met (which they won't be), would destroy America or any other country. These people are being used by people like George Soros and they are so ignorant that they haven't thought these things through.

Seems to me the Tea Party was hijacked by the neocons and this one was taken over by full fledged communists.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.    Lord Acton

The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi

The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein

"...if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..."  Lawrence M. Vance

Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)

James Deffenbach  posted on  2011-10-17   1:07:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: James Deffenbach, christine (#3)

The problem with this list though is the point of the header article. The Occupy groups are not homogeneous and more so for those other than the original Occupy NY. There are people of all age groups and all political persuasions united by one common thread:

I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANY MORE!"

And given the degree to which these protests are annoying, even disturbing the PTB, I have to wonder how much of this was planted on a bunch naive kids to help discredit them? I don't know, but I do know that at both the NY and Atlanta protests that the group "Facilitators" were using echo chanting, a mind control technique - think "Sieg Heil!, Sieg Heil!, Sieg Heil!, ..."

So while there is reason for caution I think that on balance the widespread spontaneous self organizing eruptions may work for the common good regardless of whatever addlepated left wing ideologies some of them spout.

Remember The White Rose
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2011-10-17   1:48:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: titorite (#2)

Yaup.... they may not know what they want...but the do have a good grasp on what they DONT want.

I do know what I want:

"...that government of the people, by the people, and for the people shall not perish from the earth." ~ Abraham Lincoln

"...we hold these truths to be self evident, that all Men are created equal, and are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable Rights, that among these are the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. ~ Thomas Jefferson

"It is in truth not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom — for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself." ~ Robert The Brus, Arbroath Abbey, April 6, 1320

And just for fun:

"Anyone who is not a rebel at twenty has no heart. Anyone who is bourgeois by forty has no brains." ~ Anatole France

Remember The White Rose
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2011-10-17   2:03:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: christine (#0)

The question is not how Occupy Wall Street protesters can find that gross discrepancy immoral. The question is why every one of us isn’t protesting with them.

Yes - and a good question to be sure. If the people allow the continuance of blatant elitist cronyism the resultant tyranny will become civil war.

You wouldn't invite 100 people to a BB-Q and allow one person to eat everything.

Share Our Wealth

The Barbecue Speech (Huey Long)

"How many men ever went to a barbecue and would let one man take off the table what's intended for nine-tenths of the people to eat? The only way you will be able to feed the balance of the people is to make that man come back and bring back some of that grub he ain't got no business with.

How are you going to feed the balance of the people? What's Morgan and Baruch and Rockefeller and Mellon gonna do with all that grub? They can't eat it. They can't wear the clothes. They can't live in the house.

But when they've got everything on the God-slaving earth that they can eat and they can wear and they can live in — and all that their children can live in and wear and eat and all their children's children can use — then we've got to call Mr. Morgan and Mr. Mellon and Mr. Rockefeller back and say, 'Come back here. Put that stuff back on this table that you took away from here that you don't need. Leave something else for the American people to consume."

Many have painted Huey Long as a socialist or worse. Most of those complainants were crony capitalists or supported by them to propagandize Americans like FOX NEWS, CNN, ABC, CBS, and NBC do today.

To my way of thinking, when the 99% are (finally) stirred from their comatose state of NASCAR stupidity to reject the hypocrisy of the 1% it's time to re- evaluate the country's condition. That's not to say a wealth limit should be set upon anyone. What must be realized in order to achieve a felicitous society is satisfaction with the general conditions of life when one is an active member that participates and contributes a positive share to his / her community.

Just because I think societies should, could, and would work well together from the top to the bottom it seems to me that much of the wealth derived from the natural resources of the country that actually belong to everyone are being siphoned off by a very few that in reality bribe legislators to make laws for their personal advantage.

We may not be able to eliminate corruption completely but ending the lobbyist's wide open and rampant outright bribery of our lawmakers which is pure- unadulterated- stupid-bullshit would serve us well. Lobbying has about as much relevance to free speech as pornography does and is far more harmful.

Another thing that really should get more consideration is limiting the FEDERAL GOVT so that the States are able to afford a variety of environments conducive to lifestyles that actually promote the happiness of society at large rather than making laws furthering a one size fits all situation where every State is exactly the same as the others. This was never the intent of the founders.

The elites have legalized the servitude of the masses and in so doing have created an oppressive system that will eventually result in the "OCCUPY" sort of resistance that can easily turn violent and very destructive.

America has become a place where the dog eat dog mentality has overcome the ideal of everyone working towards the betterment of life in general, which has a negative effect that poisons the entire environment. There has to be a happy medium that can be achieved wherein all are able to live peaceably together.

We have a lot of corrupt measures in place that will have to be undone in order to restore some balance between the 1% and the 99%. The FED RESERVE SYSTEM will have to be held accountable for the theft and corruption operated by it and then returned to the people. The lack of transparency and accountability afforded the FED for the last 100 years is criminal and has been instrumental in destroying much of what made America a great nation through creative production of goods and services and has turned America into a global bully that demands other countries do things our way even when doing so is not in their best interests or have their population slaughtered by our war machine financed by the funny money created by the FED.

"the man who puts all the guns and all the decision-making power into the hands of the central government and then says, “Limit yourself”; it is he who is truly the impractical utopian." Murray Rothbard

noone222  posted on  2011-10-17   3:39:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: James Deffenbach, 4 (#3)

Seems to me the Tea Party was hijacked by the neocons and this one was taken over by full fledged communists.

I couldn't agree more. This FLEA PARTY, and it's very misguided supporters, need to spend a weekend beating the bongo in Zuccotti Park where they can be one with people who are our ideological opposites, despite sharing some common goals.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2011-10-17   6:08:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Jethro Tull (#7)

I couldn't agree more. This FLEA PARTY, and it's very misguided supporters, need to spend a weekend beating the bongo in Zuccotti Park where they can be one with people who are our ideological opposites, despite sharing some common goals.

If the majority of them--or even some sizable minority--support that idiotic list of demands they would welcome Obama to their protest with open arms. If there are enough of them who have their wits about them to get a bit of air time and denounce the communists in their ranks I would feel better about their protest. The only ones of the group that I have seen who make any sense are the ones who are holding the End the Fed signs. And remember that one flaky woman and the flaky guy that Adam Kokesh interviewed in the Washington protest? Absolute morons.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.    Lord Acton

The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi

The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein

"...if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..."  Lawrence M. Vance

Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)

James Deffenbach  posted on  2011-10-17   9:43:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: James Deffenbach (#8)

China: Occupy Wall Street's issues worth thought

BEIJING (AP) -- China's foreign ministry said Monday the Occupy Wall Street movement highlights issues that are worth considering, but that debates generated by the protests should promote global economic growth.

The movement began a month ago in Manhattan's Zuccotti Park with loosely organized protests against what demonstrators consider unbridled corporate greed.

It has swelled to include demonstrations on Saturday elsewhere in the U.S. and in Europe involving hundreds of thousands of people. In China, online calls for similar protests did not appear to elicit any responses.

"We feel that there are issues here that are worth pondering," said Liu Weimin, a foreign ministry spokesman during a regular briefing in Beijing.

"We have also noticed that in the media there has been a lot of commentary, discussion and reflection. But we think that all of these reflections should be conducive to maintaining the sound and steady development of the world economy," Liu said, without elaborating.

The state-run Global Times newspaper said in an editorial that the Chinese should "calmly observe the protest movement and the global situation, and not be confused by extreme points of view."

Earlier in the year, anonymous online calls for protests in China inspired by those that have swept across the Middle East and North Africa spooked the Chinese government into launching one of its broadest campaigns of repression in years. The calls for demonstrations every Sunday did not draw any overt protesters.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2011-10-17   9:48:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Jethro Tull (#9)

The "protesters" that Adam Kokesh interviewed might as well be working for the government (and they may very well be). They were not for the impeachment of Obama and they are for even MORE government so long as it benefits them. I have no use for such people.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.    Lord Acton

The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi

The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein

"...if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..."  Lawrence M. Vance

Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)

James Deffenbach  posted on  2011-10-17   9:55:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: titorite, Jethro Tull (#2)

a fyi,

Alex Jones is saying that the OWS people are now openly working for Obama..that they are into collectivism and just want a piece of the pie.

christine  posted on  2011-10-17   14:11:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: christine, titorite, Jethro Tull (#11)

The question in my mind is who is Alex Jones covertly working for?

OWS is now taking attacks and smears from a variety of angles - both left and right. That is interesting in that the controlled outlets which first ignored them are now trying desperately to shut them down with wave after wave of what can only be considered disinformation.

Remember The White Rose
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2011-10-17   14:23:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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