"Kennedy, the 38-year-old son and namesake of America's 35th president, was flying with his wife, Carolyn Bessette Kennedy, 33, and his sister-in-law, Lauren Bessette, 34, when his six-seat, single-engine Piper Saratoga crashed seven miles south of his Martha's Vineyard home. All three were killed.
A report by the National Transportation Safety Board blamed pilot error for the crash, saying Kennedy, who had been flying for 15 months, was not skilled enough for low-visibility nighttime flying and became disoriented in the hazy sky."
The Assassination of JFK Jr - Full Version
Poster Comment:
John John Had been flying for 17 years, he had already passed the quals for IFR, and his instructors all said that he was "methodical in his planning".
They murdered him, folks.
And I'm still sick about it.
If you don't have 1:46:48 to watch the video now, please bookmark it and watch it later. The skullduggery surrounding this plane crash is even more obvious than when they murdered his father.
#54. To: Phant2000, Jethro Tull, Eric Stratton, Lod, IRTorqued, Original_Intent, RickyJ, Shoonra, FormerLurker, Turtle, Phant2000, Artisan, wudidiz, christine (#4)
John F. Kennedy, Jr. obtained his private pilot certificate in April 1998. He received a "high performance airplane" sign-off in his Cessna 182 in June 1998 and a "complex airplane" sign-off in the accident airplane (Piper Saratoga) in May 1999. Although he completed the FAA's written airplane instrument examination about four months before the accident, he did not possess an instrument rating.
Junior's estimated total flight experience, excluding simulator training, was about 310 hours, of which 55 hours were at night. The pilot's estimated flight time in the accident airplane was about 36 hours, of which 9.4 hours were at night. Approximately three hours of that flight time was without a certified flight instructor on board, and about 0.8 hour of that time was flown at night, which included a night landing. You are giving him credit for 17 years of flying time, which is totally misleading and irrelevant. As anyone can see, his RECORD is 310 hours total time as PIC.
Also passing a written IFR ticket exam is not that difficult, passing the instrument flight check is totally different. Junior got himself into a situation that was far beyond his capabilities, VFR rated only and in very marginal VFR conditions.
"The same variables that affect the cost of learning to fly will affect the time it takes to earn your certificate. The FAA has established the minimum number of flight hours needed to obtain a certificate. Under Part 61 of the federal aviation regulations, the minimums are 20 hours for a sport pilot certificate, 30 hours for a recreational certificate, and 40 hours for a private pilot certificate.
Some schools operate under an alternate regulation, Part 141, which provides more FAA oversight, more rigid schedules, and more paperwork. The added requirements allow them to reduce the minimum hours of private pilot training to 35 hours. However, many schools believe that a true average flight training time for a private pilot is between 50 and 60 hours, whether the school operates under Part 61 or Part 141. Others believe that 68 to 70 hours is the more likely average. These flight hours can be spread over a time span of several months to a year or more."
JFK Jr. had between six and ten times the required number of hours to qualify for a license. (This puts your attempt to make his 300 plus hours seem like a paltry number in an honest perspective. Sorry, but I had to do it.)
And, according to all honest sources with no agenda he never flew without an instructor. (Care to guess the cost of accruing so many hours accompanied by a CFI?)
The fact that he may have taken years to finally get a license makes sense when one considers that A) in order to qualify a certain amount of hours must be accrued within a limited time period, and B) he was one of the busiest men in America and involved in many other activities and he was in no hurry to be another licensed but marginally experienced pilot.
Regarding the assertion that he was "VFR rated only and in very marginal VFR conditions." , that is a whopper that even the ugly conspirators long ago abandoned. The official weather record shows that it was a blue bird evening for flying with visibility in excess of ten miles. And having passed the tests for his instrument ticket all he needed was a few more hours. You seem to want to ignore the fact that he had multiples of the hours and experience needed for a pilot license and an even an instructor's license, many more than others who already held the official govt paperwork but weren't nearly as experienced.
This thread has been an interesting study in the triggering of Pavlovian responses by the shills at 4um.
I'd like to thank those who are much more capable than I who set the record straight. With the exception of Turdle (who is just stupid in my view) the shills reflexively took the bait like predator fish who are hardwired to attack wounded or dying fish even if the predator isn't otherwise hungry or biting.
And, Jethro Tull, if you please I'd appreciate it if you'd read up on the murder of JFK, jr., his wife and sister-in-law. (The provable lies from the govt are stark and a matter of record) And, I believe you'll form the opinion that he was a conscientious and careful pilot who was in no hurry to receive the official blessing of the same govt that closed ranks around those who murdered his father and uncle. He was more concerned with being the best pilot he could be in each of his planes, and like you and I he'd have never put his loved ones at risk if he could have avoided it. And, he could have been licensed years before (like many who were and are licensed with a fraction of his logged flight hours) if bragging rights was what he was about.
And, Shoonra, had JFK, jr. chosen to run for any office you would have seen that he was the most beloved and electable candidate in our lifetimes, and you'd have been forced to resort to some other slimy avenue of attack in order to fulfill your mission.
Great post. The two outstanding and irrefutable factoids are that the weather was clear and he wouldn't commit suicide to off his wife and her sister.
EDIT: (Not to forget the 15.5 hour delay in initiating a Search and Rescue mission).
Shoonra should head everyone's bozo list since reponses from this troll are predictable and foolish.
"the man who puts all the guns and all the decision-making power into the hands of the central government and then says, “Limit yourself”; it is he who is truly the impractical utopian." Murray Rothbard
This thread has been an interesting study in the triggering of Pavlovian responses by the shills at 4um.
I'd like to thank those who are much more capable than I who set the record straight. With the exception of Turdle (who is just stupid in my view) the shills reflexively took the bait like predator fish who are hardwired to attack wounded or dying fish even if the predator isn't otherwise hungry or biting.
And, Jethro Tull, if you please I'd appreciate it if you'd read up on the murder of JFK, jr., his wife and sister-in-law. (The provable lies from the govt are stark and a matter of record) And, I believe you'll form the opinion that he was a conscientious and careful pilot who was in no hurry to receive the official blessing of the same govt that closed ranks around those who murdered his father and uncle. He was more concerned with being the best pilot he could be in each of his planes, and like you and I he'd have never put his loved ones at risk if he could have avoided it. And, he could have been licensed years before (like many who were and are licensed with a fraction of his logged flight hours) if bragging rights was what he was about.
The latter part of your comment spawned a neutral question in my mind;
How would cops/investigators that showed up to a well-planned and thought out "false flag" crime know any different?
Most likely impossible to determine. That said, go to the 5 minute mark of the 'tube 'dawg posted in the original article. Tell me what you find problematic with what the narrator says.
EDIT: Specifically his statement regarding Teddy Kennedy.
wow, does it never end? I'd never heard peep one about any of that.
The reality we have is much darker than the reality we have been taught. It has been commented that "the victors write the history" - so do the "unindicted co-conspirators".
We can go all the way back through American history and find elements that have been left out or suppressed - dating from the time of Thomas Jefferson e.g., the Aaron Burr conspiracy, and Jefferson's comments even then of the banksters moving in to take over.
You won't find mention in the histories of the Civil War anything about the Rothschild agitators in the South egging on the secessionists. Neither do any of the skoolbook accounts mention the British Forces in Canada waiting to invade once the North and South were spent - nor of the French Force in Mexico. When Lincoln and the North won convincingly the Union Army was too strong for them to take on and so they just sort of melted away. Of course they got even by whacking Lincoln for thwarting their plans.
And then we could speak of WWI and its real reasons.
It is now almost common knowledge that FDR boxed in the Japanese forcing them to attack in self defense and then withholding the knowledge from the Pacific Commanders, and even Courts Martialing them, in order to make the Japanese attack look like a surprise.
Then we have the OSS/CIA and Operation Paperclip, MK Ultra, and on and on into that black hole.
We're not in Kansas any more - if we ever were.
And along the way there have been numerous assassinations to remove political figures inconvenient to those operating behind the curtain. The murders of JFK, RFK, and JFK Jr. are simply some of the more obvious.
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha
The video and its amateurish effort to reinvent and resurrect Camelot by painting the Kennedy clan in gold, was a pathetic and childish effort to rewrite history.
The entire video and its dialogue borders on being assinine, making one wonder how any intelligent person could possibly give any part of it serious consideration. Within the first minute, photos of the three brothers appear, all dead by the unseen hands of others in one giant world conspiracy.
The first to die, Joe, was murdered by Roosevelt, then the other two by Oswald/Sirhan; all by one giant hand of WORLD WIDE conspiracy. Then it is Junior's turn, and once again "they" did it. How childish to allow any credibility to such patent nonsense. To believe that everyone involved over an extensive period of years, lied and falsified the deaths of the Kennedys, is appalling ignorance.
As for the aviation aspect, this from FAA publications:
"FAA RISK MANAGEMENT HANDBOOK H-8083-2
This FAA handbook provides tools to help pilots determine and assess each situation for the safest possible flight with the least amount of risk. Pilots who practice effective risk management possess predetermined personal standards and have formed habit patterns and checklists to incorporate them. This handbook presents methods pilots can use to manage the workloads associated with each phase of flight, resulting in a safer, more enjoyable and less stressful experience for both themselves and their passengers."
In the last 20 years, approximately 85 percent of aviation accidents have been caused by “pilot error”; often the result of a tendency in flight training to focus solely on the physical aspects of flying the aircraft. The flight instructor who integrates risk management into flight training teaches aspiring pilots how to be more aware of potential risks in flying, how to clearly identify those risks, and how to manage them successfully — leading to a solid understanding of how to avoid the most common pilot errors.
As I said early on I haven't enough information about Jr's death to give anything more than my initial feeling. IIRC, he was warned by the ground crew? not to fly that evening, and he disregarded it. It might have been bad weather? Again, that's what I recall so don't hold me to it. Phant in her post above, describes my thoughts on that vid. It's discredited IMO and that's too bad because it hurts the effort of sincere people to find the truth. Could the vid be disinfo designed to do just that? We could pull on that string forever :)
I agree with your #74, and age does have a benefit in the Kennedy matters. I lived through them all, and all save Teddy the sot, raised my antenna. This drugging of him followed by someone unknown driving his car off the bridge is a new one on me. Hell, 'ya think if he realized the government killed his brothers, then this happened to him, he'd take the cork out of his mouth. I sure would. For Teddy, excessive booze, a subservient police department, aided by the local DA, and mega political clout, seems to make sense to me.
Even pigs (and he was) like to live. But we digress. That tube offered no proof to what appears to be an opinion offered as fact. If Alex Jones prepared that, some heads would explode here :P
#87. To: Original_Intent, HOUNDDAWG, Jethro Tull (#7)(Edited)
Also interesting was that the debris from the plane was never in public view. It was recovered from the ocean and kept under guard at a military base (shades of the WTC 1&2 debris Batman). As well the bodies were quickly cremated without autopsy. Could it be that autopsy would have shown injuries from an explosion?
There are a number of circumstances in the wake of this crash that don't pass the smell test. The dispostion of the remains of the aircraft and the human remains recovered from the sea are among those.
The Boston Globe, among other papers, picked up on the unusual rush in examining the bodies of JFK, his wife and sister-in-law.
Subject: BOSTON GLOBE: JFK Autopsy Rushed Date: Sat, 24 Jul 1999 10:37:13 -0400 (EDT) From: John DiNardo To: newshawk@iname.com CC: John DiNardo
Again, reading from the Boston Globe (www.boston.com), July 23rd: BOSTON GLOBE: JFK Autopsy Rushed
"Still, the autopsies in the Kennedy case were performed especially quickly," pathologists said.
..... "The haste [of the autopsies] in this case," he said, "could lead to questions about the investigation's thoroughness."
"Pathologists also follow *COMPLEX RULES* for testing a pilot for drug and alcohol use," Dix said. [JD: They are supposed to follow "complex rules" in testing for drug or alcohol use, but they EVIDENTLY violated those rules, indeed, failed to follow them at all! Alcohol and/or drugs are a MAJOR causative suspect in airplane crashes. Remember Ricky Nelson's death in an airplane crash one New Year's Eve? Can someone find out if the coroner examined for substance abuse in that case?] .
"The timing [brief time] of the Kennedy investigation [autopsy], Kirschner said, makes it unlikely that pathologists performed autopsies on Carolyn Bessette Kennedy or Lauren Bessette. You can't possibly do three investigations in four hours, he said." [JD: Well, of course the women's condition would have no effect on the control of the aircraft. But what if there were powder burns on their bodies, suggesting an explosion or a fire onboard? What if a lone nut gunmen had stowed away aboard the plane? After all, you must admit that lone nut gunmen have made a tradition of invading the lives of Kennedy's. Haven't they? What if the gunman was willing to sacrifice his own life? I'm not saying that I believe any of these scenarios. What I AM saying is that the coroner is SUPPOSED to examine the bodies for the POSSIBILITY of these scenarios having occurred. THAT IS HIS JOB!]
"Passenger autopsies are also useful, Kirschner said, if a victim's family sues for damages related to the crash. A medical examiner could determine whether the victim suffered in the moments before death, or survived in the minutes or hours after the crash." [JD: Yet, despite the established practice of examining the bodies of passengers, and carefully examining the body of the pilot, in order to determine if the pilot was drinking or on drugs, thus permitting the victims to sue in case of pilot misconduct ... despite these rules, the women's bodies were not even autopsied! Unbelievable! Actually, I think it is quite believable, judging from the first JFK autopsy at Bethesda Naval Hospital, which was judged by the nation's best assassination researchers to be an outrageously appalling fraud -- a continuation of the assassination cover-up. That is exactly what this second JFK autopsy is showing itself to be, also.] John DiNardo
What I also find disconcerting is the haste with which the bodies were cremated and then buried at sea. I find this pretty odd for an upper class Catholic family. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that the victims had a decent burial plot reserved for them where friends, family and admirers could pay their respects.
Further, as far as I know, all of the victims of the crash of this private aircraft were private citizens, and none of them had ever worn a uniform. Why were the remains flown out to a destroyer for burial? My "inner cop" tells me that it's likely that someone wanted to make damned sure that the victims' remains were under 100% surveillance and control from the time that they were recovered to the moment that what was left was irretrievably committed to the deep.
Excellent research, and for the sake of argument I concede all your points. Now, nearly 11 years after the government possible killed another Kennedy, what to do? Conspiracies, assassinations, rogue governments have been and will be with us until St. Peter calls us home. I suppose with economic circumstances developing at warp speed and wars now being initiated at the wave of Obama's kingly hand, the details of this plane crash, for me at least, take a back seat to our pending collapse. If one were privy to the Kennedy information, an investigation of any kind could consume years and at the end, we'd be where we started, with one exception; our nation will be further flooded with illegals, and the deficits will continue to build an unsustainable debt. These latter issues concern me far more than the former since I already concede this government is quite capable and willing to kill anyone for any (or no) reason.
PS: Back to the vid posted in the original article. It's credibility is damaged 5-mins in when the narrator discusses his assessment of the antics of the Swimming Sot.
#89. To: Jethro Tull, Eric Stratton, All (#75)(Edited)
IIRC, he was warned by the ground crew? not to fly that evening, and he disregarded it. It might have been bad weather?
And I've been told that 19 angry Arabs who hated us for our freedoms, armed with nothing more than box cutters, pulled off a successful coordinated attack against the World Trade Center towers 1 & 2, along with the Pentagon.
I've been told not only that, but that the pilots learned their flying skills from flight simulators, and were so proficient by training that way they could fly commercial airliners at high speed directly into their targets, including a ground level attack against the Pentagon.
I've been told those things, yet I'll be damned if I believe them.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
I didn't know they were cremated and buried at sea. That is strange for a catholic family I think. A plane crash at sea should not have disfigured the bodies too much.
I don't know if it is true but I heard he was going to announce a run for president and told the Gore campaign this who promised to keep silent about it till he announced.
There ain't a lot we can do, but we still have our modest soap box here from which we can sling some of the shit back in the faces of the authors of crimes such as the murder of political figures.
Yeah, and we are accustomed to interminable investigations that take forever to finger malefactors. Our system, populated as it is by chislers, gremlins and crooks will never get to the bottom of the sort of questions that we pose here. In point of fact, if there were the will, it would take little more time to prosecute one of these great murders than it would take to render due process in the case of a garden variety manslaughter.
And I've been told that 19 angry Arabs who hated us for our freedoms, armed with nothing more than box cutters, pulled off a successful coordinated attack against the World Trade Center towers 1 & 2, along with the Pentagon.
I've been told not only that, but that the pilots learned their flying skills from flight simulators, and were so proficient by training that way they could fly commercial airliners at high speed directly into their targets, including a ground level attack against the Pentagon.
I've been told those things, yet I'll be damned if I believe them.
I'm not sure where you're going but why should we believe the government, after all we have evidence of the crime (film and physical), not to mention the testimony of 100's of expert witnesses who reject the conspiracy with verifiable fact.
I'm not sure where you're going but why should we believe the government, after all we have evidence of the crime (film and physical), not to mention the testimony of 100's 1,000's of expert witnesses who reject the conspiracy with verifiable fact.
Break the Conventions - Keep the Commandments - G.K.Chesterson