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Title: Penn State to Get Hit With Civil Suit, Sources Say
Source: The Daily Beast
URL Source: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl ... t-with-civil-suit-sources.html
Published: Nov 14, 2011
Author: Jessica Bennett and Jacob Bernstein
Post Date: 2011-11-14 14:59:04 by Original_Intent
Ping List: *US INDUSTRIAL WAR MACHINE*     Subscribe to *US INDUSTRIAL WAR MACHINE*
Keywords: Pedd State, suit, pedophile, sick
Views: 4289
Comments: 68

Alleged victims of former Penn State defensive coordinator Jerry Sandusky are working with at least two legal teams to prepare civil lawsuits against the university—seeking damages from the university over administrators’ failure to take action.

“This may be the most high-profile sexual abuse case ever,” says Benjamin Andreozzi, a Harrisburg, Pa., lawyer who is representing at least one of the victims listed in grand jury filings. Adreozzi noted that once other potential victims see that they’re “not alone,” perhaps they’ll come forward, too.

A second lawyer who requested anonymity told The Daily Beast he was representing another alleged victim.

Eight victims of alleged sexual predator Sandusky, the 67-year-old former Penn State assistant football coach, have been listed in a grand jury filing that was released last week—and at least one more is believed to have come forward since then. A source inside the state police told The Daily Beast last week that phone lines set up for victims and tips have been flooded with calls.
Attorneys close to the cases, meanwhile, believe the number of victims will grow dramatically in the coming days. “I think things are going to be fast and furious over the next weeks,” says Manning J. O’Connor, an attorney in Pittsburgh who has been following the case.
Since Sandusky’s arrest, two higher-ups have been charged with making false statements when they denied having been told of an assault that allegedly took place on campus. Sandusky’s direct boss, the head coach of the school’s football team, Joe Paterno, was fired last week, leading to riots on campus. And while it could take months, or even years, for civil suits to reach a courtroom, there is no doubt that legal teams are plotting their next moves.
Penn State Abuse Football

Matt Rourke / AP Photo

“If the allegations are true, the institution’s silence, and failure to act, not only emboldened a predator, but silences the victims,” says Andrew Shubin, a State College, Pa., attorney, who has been litigating civil rights cases for 21 years. “These children must have believed that the institution didn’t care about them, because it did nothing to protect them.”
There are a few ways civil lawsuits might come together, say experts. It’s likely that attorneys would file a federal civil rights action—arguing that the administration violated the victims’ 14th amendment right to bodily integrity in its failure to notify the appropriate authorities. This is a tactic commonly used in cases involving sexual assault.

“I think things are going to be fast and furious over the next weeks,” one attorney said.

“A civil-rights lawsuit,” says Shubin, “is a way in which victims of abusers can hold perpetrators—and those who enabled and covered for them—accountable when all other systems have failed them.”

There is also the possibility of a state action—against individual administrators—that would charge them with negligence. A suit looking for monetary damages from Sandusky is also likely. And then, of course, there is Second Mile, the nonprofit that Sandusky founded, from where he allegedly recruited his prey. There is plenty of speculation about how much administrators at the organization knew—as well whether the center could lose $3 million in state funding promised to the organization for the construction of a 45,000-square foot learning center that was supposed to come with dorm rooms, locker areas, and showers.
In Pennsylvania, the statute of limitations for childhood victims of sexual abuse to file a civil claim is age 30—which would give attorneys some time, since most of the known victims are in their 20s.
And as for the criminal filings? At least one attorney has speculated that there could be more to come in the way of a federal charge for Sandusky taking his victims across state lines. A woman who had children with Jerry Sundusky’s adopted son has also filed a court plea to keep Sandusky from having unsupervised contact or overnight visits with his grandchildren. According to the Patriot News, which broke the story of the Sandusky investigation in early 2010, Matt Sandusky took his children to his father’s house the same day the former coach was arrested.

Will more victims ultimately come forward? “Each person deals with it in a different way, and some people may feel comfortable and it may be part of the healing process,” says Andreozzi.
But the healing process won’t be easy.
“Very few people come out unfazed by something like this,” says Alan Perer, a Pittsburgh attorney who represented dozens of victims in the Catholic archdiocese scandal. “They grow up, they either have problems with alcohol or drugs, it goes on for the rest of your life. You just don’t get over it.”

With reporting by Kevin Cirilli in State College, Pa.

Like The Daily Beast on Facebook and follow us on Twitter for updates all day long.

Jessica Bennett is a senior writer and editor at Newsweek and The Daily Beast, covering social issues, gender, sex, and culture. She has won three Front Page Awards, and has been honored by the Society of Professional Journalists, the New York Press Club, and GLAAD, among other organizations. She also edits the Newsweek Tumblr. Follow her on Tumblr.

Jacob Bernstein is a senior reporter at The Daily Beast. He has also written for New York magazine, Paper, and The Huffington Post.

For inquiries, please contact The Daily Beast at editorial@thedailybeast.com.


Poster Comment: This is one reason Pedd State is pouring on the coals to keep as much of this covered up as possible. The potential here is that it could cost the university hundreds of millions in damages both real and punitive. It is a foregone conclusion that "The Second (s)Mile Foundation" is toast. They will be sued out of existence and no one is going to donate to a known pedophile front organization.

It is going to be interesting following this, although I find stench of evil sickening, to see how successfully the cover-up is put into place and how many mid-level pervs will be sacrificed to protect the high level pervs.(1 image)

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#29. To: Eric Stratton (#23)

Yes - those were great shows.

Thank goodness we can catch the replays.

Break the Conventions - Keep the Commandments - G.K.Chesterson

Lod  posted on  2011-11-14   21:49:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: All (#29)
(Edited)

We'll know tomorrow what happens.

Break the Conventions - Keep the Commandments - G.K.Chesterson

Lod  posted on  2011-11-14   22:00:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Eric Stratton (#28)

Actually, thinking about it, I mean't "Davey Crockett" - "King of the wild frontier ..." and not Daniel Boone. Oddly enough Fess Parker, I believe, played both. A little trivia - the man who played Davey's Indian Sidekick/Friend was played by an actor named Ed Ames (who was really an Indian) and he was also a Operatic Tenor - and a very good one. I still have one of his recordings somewhere. My mother loved his rendition of "They Call The Wind Mariah" - which was the opening theme for the movie "Krakatoa East of Java".

Yes, Adam Cartwright - and he was the best. I don't know if he ever regretted leaving the show or not. Just looked him up on WackyPedia - evidently not - they have an extensive entry about him. Pernell Roberts He would have made a mint from it for as long as it ran. I think it was second only to "Gunsmoke" as the longest running Western. Roberts was the last surviving member of the cast and died of Pancreatic Cancer, age 81, in 2010.

Remember The White Rose
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2011-11-14   22:10:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Eric Stratton (#15)

we'll just have to disagree that a diploma from Penn state is tainted for all who have ever gotten one. sure this has brought shame to the university, but Penn State is first and foremost an academic institution. for example, what does what happened in the football program have to do with what happened in math class? your approach, imo, is to throw the baby out with the bath water. again, the University is much more than its football. even still, there's absolutely no reason that the athletes past and present shouldn't be proud of their personal achievements. a clean sweep of anyone who had anything to do with this situation is what's warranted, not a destruction of the entire school and community.

christine  posted on  2011-11-14   22:31:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Original_Intent (#31)

Break the Conventions - Keep the Commandments - G.K.Chesterson

Lod  posted on  2011-11-14   22:34:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Lod (#33)

Coolness. :-)

Remember The White Rose
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2011-11-14   23:16:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Lod (#9)

Never underestimate our collective capacity for blinking a couple times and completely forgetting.

Yeah, no shit.

Godfrey Smith: Mike, I wouldn't worry. Prosperity is just around the corner.
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936 2011)

Esso  posted on  2011-11-14   23:22:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Original_Intent (#1)

Ex-Penn State coach Jerry Sandusky admits to showering with boys

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2011-11-15   0:46:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: TwentyTwelve (#36)

Sandusky: "I didn't have sex with that boy ..."

Nixon: "Your President is not a crook."

Clinton: "I did not have sex with that woman - Monica Lewinsky."

Remember The White Rose
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2011-11-15   1:17:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Eric Stratton (#17)

If you're expecting much to happen outside of the Ped State circle, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Those at the top are fully insulated.

I disagree with you there.

Their "insulation" depends on the cooperation of other criminals. Mob bosses can't count on that, and neither can pedophiles.

It depends on who is investigating it. I don't know who the good guys are in this.

--------------------------------------------------------
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll

PSUSA2  posted on  2011-11-15   8:04:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: PSUSA2 (#38)

I don't know who the good guys are in this.

That's a huge problem for all of our society. The good guys haven't been showing up lately - it looks to me like an intervention is required. Even if some "innocent" people were prosecuted (or persecuted) in error - it'd be a good lesson for future perps !

Just my opinion.

"the man who puts all the guns and all the decision-making power into the hands of the central government and then says, “Limit yourself”; it is he who is truly the impractical utopian." Murray Rothbard

noone222  posted on  2011-11-15   8:14:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Lod (#30)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832

Eric Stratton  posted on  2011-11-15   9:46:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Original_Intent (#31)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832

Eric Stratton  posted on  2011-11-15   9:51:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: christine (#32)

the University is much more than its football. even still, there's absolutely no reason that the athletes past and present shouldn't be proud of their personal achievements. a clean sweep of anyone who had anything to do with this situation is what's warranted, not a destruction of the entire school and community.

I agree with that completely. No reason and no justification to paint the innocent with the same broad brush as the guilty. I am sure many, many good and decent people have gone to school at Penn State who haven't molested anyone and there is no reason why the actions of one or a few should taint everyone who has ever gone there.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.    Lord Acton

The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi

The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein

"...if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..."  Lawrence M. Vance

Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)

James Deffenbach  posted on  2011-11-15   10:03:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: christine, All (#32)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832

Eric Stratton  posted on  2011-11-15   10:07:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: TwentyTwelve (#36)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832

Eric Stratton  posted on  2011-11-15   10:12:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: PSUSA2, All (#38)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832

Eric Stratton  posted on  2011-11-15   10:13:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: noone222 (#39)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832

Eric Stratton  posted on  2011-11-15   10:15:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: James Deffenbach, christine, All (#42) (Edited)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832

Eric Stratton  posted on  2011-11-15   10:21:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Eric Stratton (#45)

This token bond for Sandusky, the people being put in charge of the investigation, etc., all point to cover-up mode.

That judge will have to answer for this. He should have recused himself.

They will definitely try and cover up as much as possible. But this judge was sloppy.

They may not have had time to properly set up a cover-up. If that is the case, they will be tripping all over each other.

It all depends on who is investigating this. Which agencies are doing it? That's not rhetorical. I don't know who is investigating this.

Think back to watergate. This is where I think it's going. It may be that big. And that coverup failed.

--------------------------------------------------------
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll

PSUSA2  posted on  2011-11-15   10:23:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Eric Stratton (#47)

If I were a student at Penn State, or any other--of course I am a bit "long in the tooth" to be a college student--I would not be one of the ones out protesting some coach getting fired over what appears to be a coverup of some serious crimes against young people. If Paterno was told about that when it happened and then did not see to it that some action was taken then they were right to fire him and it should have happened years ago.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.    Lord Acton

The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi

The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits. Albert Einstein

"...if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..."  Lawrence M. Vance

Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)

James Deffenbach  posted on  2011-11-15   10:28:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: noone222 (#39)

it'd be a good lesson for future perps !

People, being people, will remember that lesson for a short time. Then they will forget it, and the cycle starts all over again. It's human nature. But imo it serves a purpose. It keeps us from becoming too complacent.

We wouldn't have gotten very far if we were still being coddled in some fictional garden of eden.

--------------------------------------------------------
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll

PSUSA2  posted on  2011-11-15   10:31:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: James Deffenbach (#49)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832

Eric Stratton  posted on  2011-11-15   10:43:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: PSUSA2, All (#50)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832

Eric Stratton  posted on  2011-11-15   10:47:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Eric Stratton (#52)

Is Pedd State TOO BIG TO FAIL? ... we're about to find out!

I was not writing about penn st, but the world and human nature in general.

IMO penn st is just a small part of this story. IMO it's almost an incidental part. This could have happened anywhere.

The bigger part is those that were not directly involved at PSU, but have money and positions of power.

--------------------------------------------------------
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll

PSUSA2  posted on  2011-11-15   10:57:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: PSUSA2 (#53)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832

Eric Stratton  posted on  2011-11-15   11:10:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Eric Stratton (#43)

yes, that clears things up, except for this. SMU's infractions were recruiting violations. this is a different matter involving a few and, as far as i know, there's nothing in the NCAA rules that addresses pedophilia (on that note, every one involved deserves their day in court and please don't take this as in any way defending the cast of characters here, i'm just mindful of what happened at Duke). my point is again that i don't think the present or future athletes should be punished UNLESS there is something in the NCAA rules that addresses this in some way.

christine  posted on  2011-11-15   11:22:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: christine (#55)

You'd think that the NCAA would have a morals clause somewhere; but my search came up empty.

Break the Conventions - Keep the Commandments - G.K.Chesterson

Lod  posted on  2011-11-15   11:34:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Eric Stratton (#54)

But you must remember that our news cycles are different than what they were in the '70s and the attention span of Duhmericans is brief such that the next missing bimbo story that consumes the network sNooze shakes the screen on the etch-a-sketch clean again.

True.

This cuts both ways though. Does this depend on their attention span? Sure, it might give them a way out of this mess (but I doubt it), but sex sells, even perverted criminal sex. This plays right into the idiots desires for scandal. That will imo keep up the interest in this story. It won't be easy to bury.

The entire Roman Catholic Church thing wasn't nearly as exposed as it should have been on the last go-round, and it pops up all the time.

It's constantly being exposed. The only ones to just let it slide are the catholics. But WTF, they have a very long history of torture and murder so it's just another day for them. They don't count.

--------------------------------------------------------
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll

PSUSA2  posted on  2011-11-15   11:44:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: christine, All (#55)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832

Eric Stratton  posted on  2011-11-15   12:04:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: Lod, christine (#56) (Edited)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832

Eric Stratton  posted on  2011-11-15   12:09:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: Lod, christine (#56)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832

Eric Stratton  posted on  2011-11-15   12:32:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: PSUSA2 (#57)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832

Eric Stratton  posted on  2011-11-15   12:33:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: Eric Stratton (#46)

The "WE ARE PEDD STATE/We shall overcome" mentality is strong out there,

A lot of folks put their trust in the so-called educated and in my life experience anytime I've been wronged it's been the educated. (The guy at the local gas/service station fucks me over but I let him !)

"the man who puts all the guns and all the decision-making power into the hands of the central government and then says, “Limit yourself”; it is he who is truly the impractical utopian." Murray Rothbard

noone222  posted on  2011-11-15   14:12:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: noone222 (#62)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832

Eric Stratton  posted on  2011-11-15   14:22:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: Eric Stratton (#46)

The "WE ARE PEDD STATE/We shall overcome" mentality is strong out there

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2011-11-15   21:48:09 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: TwentyTwelve, Eric Stratton (#64)

The "WE ARE PEDD STATE/We shall overcome" mentality is strong out there

Shouldn't that be Overcum?

Remember The White Rose
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2011-11-15   21:57:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: TwentyTwelve (#64)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 1749-1832

Eric Stratton  posted on  2011-11-15   22:02:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Original_Intent (#65)

The "WE ARE PEDD STATE/We shall overcome" mentality is strong out there

Shouldn't that be Overcum?

That's more like it.

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2011-11-15   23:00:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: Eric Stratton (#66)

Let's hope so.

A bruise that will last forever.

TwentyTwelve  posted on  2011-11-15   23:01:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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