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Title: If Laws Change, 'Penny Hoarders' Could Cash in on Thousands of Dollars
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://news.yahoo.com/laws-change-p ... ARzZWMDbW9zdF9wb3B1bGFyBHZlcgM
Published: Dec 4, 2011
Author: NEAL KARLINSKY and MARY-ROSE ABRAHAM | A
Post Date: 2011-12-04 01:50:58 by Tatarewicz
Keywords: None
Views: 294
Comments: 22

Joe Henry is on a first name basis with bank tellers across his hometown of Medford, Ore., scouring 15 banks a week with one thing on his mind: pennies.

Henry is often seen toting around bags of pennies, some he buys, others he changes back in for cash, which seems a little strange at first. He's not a collector, he is what's known as a "penny hoarder" and he is not alone.

Inside a shed next to his house, Henry has orange tubs filled with 200,000 pennies, and he spends hours sorting through roll after roll of the coins. But it's not just any and all pennies, Henry is only interested in those that are dated from 1982 and earlier because those are the coins made with 95 percent copper. A copper penny is worth more than other pennies -- now mostly made of zinc -- currently priced at $0.024.

"The copper has such a different sound than zinc pennies do," Henry said. "Real money has that definite sound of money and if you listen to a modern zinc penny, they don't sound the same, they sound sort of tinny."

Henry even has a $500 home counting machine to separate out the copper ones.

Much like the resurging obsession with gold, the price of copper has skyrocketed in recent years and the rising price has led to some unusual sprees. Thieves have been exploiting the value hidden in obscure items, stripping copper wiring from phone and utility cables, from construction sites, even from a 122-year-old copper bell that was stolen from a San Francisco cathedral.

In San Diego, so much copper wiring has been stolen from eight different city parks, that soccer teams can't practice because the field lights stopped working.

But penny hoarders aren't thieves, just opportunists. There are a slew of listing for pennies in bulk on eBay, but what's amazing is they include listings for $10 in pennies being sold for $20 dollars. If you think only a sucker would pay two cents for a penny, you're missing out on a business opportunity that Adam Youngs, who runs a massive penny sorting operation in Portland, Ore., has perfected.

He explained how he can sell a $100 worth of pennies for $176, when shipping and packaging are included.

Youngs' operation, the Portland Mint, is locked inside a secure facility that deals with armored cars -- selling and shipping to clients in every state -- and works in pennies by the ton. He said he has clients with deep pockets who are storing huge sacks of pennies and he has inquires from hedge funds.

"Just in face value alone, about $270,000 dollars [in pennies] right now," Youngs said. "That is just the face value, that is not even the copper value. The copper value is about three times that much."

Inside the Portland Mint. Credit: ABC News

Clients use Youngs because he separates copper pennies from the chump change -- the newer pennies that are only worth $0.01.

But in the weird world of penny hoarding, getting to the copper is a very big problem. It's illegal to melt pennies an there is an obscure federal law that makes it illegal to transport more than $5 in pennies out of the country.

Penny hoarders know this of course, but they also know something else. In what could be the biggest legislation to hit the U.S. Mint in 50 years, officials are now looking at the composition of pennies and nickels and considering an overhaul. If the laws change and the mint decides to abolish the penny, people would be free to melt them down for the copper.

A penny saved, many times over, could be a whole lot earned. Also Read

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 20.

#2. To: Tatarewicz (#0)

Not exactly a sucker's bet, but certainly not the road to riches.

It turns out that it takes approx 181 pennies to weigh one pound. That's $1.81 to make a pound of pennies.

The current market price for copper is $3.58 per pound.

So, presumably, a pound of pennies is worth approx twice what it costs (that is, worth twice the value of the pennies that make up the pound). Not too shabby, except:

While waiting to make your killing when you can sell your pennies to be smelted for their copper at twice their face value, you cannot spend the same pennies. You have $1.81 just lying there, and since you can't put it into the bank to be mixed with all sorts of other coins and currency, you cannot get interest on it nor invest it nor do anything else that gets a return on it in all the time you're sitting on it. Since you're not a fool, you're doing this with a lot more than just one pound of pennies. Maybe a ton of pennies, maybe two or three tons. So that's thousands of dollars in pennies that you cannot be spending, investing or drawing interest on, while you wait for your lucky day. In the meantime, you have to store your pennies somewhere. Maybe in your garage or your basement. They take up a lot of space. And they're not really paying you rent on the space they take up. But maybe you have to pay rent (or mortgage) to someone else for that space during all that time.

The big day comes someday and someone wants to buy your tons of pennies. Do you hire a truck and some big husky men to load it so you can take your pennies to your buyer? If your buyer has to bring his truck to your house and his workmen to carry up the pennies from your basement, he'll probably deduct something from what he's going to pay you.

All in all, it's a lot of trouble for not nearly enough profit.

Shoonra  posted on  2011-12-04   8:26:42 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Shoonra, All (#2)

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Eric Stratton  posted on  2011-12-04   10:40:00 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Eric Stratton (#3)

Considering the bulk, weight, and the expected price levels for copper, you'd have to wait a very long time, with a very great deal of pennies not drawing interest, to make a real killing by selling the pennies for metal. In terms of the trouble and expense involved in collecting, storing, and possible moving all those pennies, the prospect making a real fortune out of such a deal is rather slim.

Shoonra  posted on  2011-12-04   11:08:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Shoonra (#6)

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Eric Stratton  posted on  2011-12-04   18:54:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Eric Stratton, 4 (#18)

If the penny is de-commissioned as currency, there will immediately be buyers/smelters to buy them at spot.

No problem.

Lod  posted on  2011-12-04   18:58:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Lod (#19)

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Eric Stratton  posted on  2011-12-04   19:03:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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