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War, War, War
See other War, War, War Articles

Title: Military Shares Public's Declining Support For Bush, War
Source: Associated Press
URL Source: http://www.newsobserver.com/news/nc ... s/story/2826967p-9276680c.html
Published: Oct 29, 2005
Author: Associated Press
Post Date: 2005-10-29 19:57:40 by Brian S
Keywords: Declining, Military, Publics
Views: 339
Comments: 73

CHARLOTTE, N.C. -- More than half of North Carolina military members surveyed in the latest Elon University poll disapprove of President Bush's handling of the war in Iraq and his overall job performance.

Nearly 53 percent of military members said they strongly disapproved or disapproved of Bush's handling of his job. And just more than 56 percent of that same group strongly disapproved or disapproved of how he has dealt with the Iraq war.

Overall, 53 percent of those surveyed for the poll released Friday did not approve of Bush's job performance, while 57 percent did not approve of his handling of the Iraq war.

"We see that those most involved in the Iraq situation, the military, are not so different from the general public after all and share the same concerns about Iraq," said Hunter Bacot, the poll's director. "Conventional wisdom might suggest that the military would be more supportive of Bush in Iraq, but that simply isn't the case if you look at the numbers."

North Carolina has one of the nation's largest military presences, with major Army, Marine and Air Force installations based in eastern North Carolina. North Carolina-based active-duty and reserve units have seen extensive action since the United States attacked Afghanistan following the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.

Of the 539 adults surveyed for the Elon poll, 80 - or 14.8 percent of the sample - were active-duty, reserve, retired or veteran members of the military. The telephone poll was conducted between Monday and Thursday and has a margin of error for the entire sample of plus or minus 4.3 percentage points.

The margin of error, which reflects the confidence that the results speak for an entire group, is higher for smaller groups, such as the 80 military members.

Just over half of those people surveyed said the United States should no longer be in Iraq, while nearly 43 percent agreed that the country should remain there. The rest said they did not know or refused to answer.

Roughly half of those polled - 52 percent - said they do not know if the war in Iraq was worth fighting. The poll showed about 15 percent believe the war was worthwhile and 29.1 percent do not think so.

Military members were somewhat more supportive of the United States' presence in Iraq than the general population, with exactly half saying the nation should be there and 41.3 percent saying it should not.

More than half of military members - 51 percent - said they did not know if the war was worth fighting, while 19 percent said the war was worth it and 29 percent said it was not

The low approval numbers for Bush seen in the poll continue a pattern of declining support for the second-term president seen in previous Elon polls and nationally.

The percentage of those surveyed who say they strongly approve or approve of Bush's job performance was down to 41 percent in the current poll from a recent peak of 55 percent in February 2004.

Approval of Bush's handling of the Iraq war has dropped from 52 percent in September 2003 to nearly 39 percent now.

Approval of the president's handling of the economy ticked up slightly in the current poll, to 37 percent, from the 36 percent approval registered in April. The peak was 42 percent in September 2004.

Elon's Institute for Politics and Public Affairs has been conducting its poll since 2000.

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#28. To: avian virus (#25)

Are we to assume that since Bush's local advocate is a slimey liar, Bush is too?

Clinton....did...bad! Bush good, see?

"I don’t care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do. The important question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it." - William S. Burroughs

Dakmar  posted on  2005-10-29   21:06:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Brian S (#0)

I rather suspect that the fellas are all gung ho initially because they have the opportunity to use the skills they have honed to a fine degree.......but as time goes on and on, with no winning in sight, or returning home for years, the reality of the lies and lack of planning and mistreatment of the military personnel start to set in.

Soon they will realize they were duped and sent off lacking the basics like body armor, armored vehicles, adequate forward planning and exit strategies, and certainly the lack of care for families and injured soldiers on returning home. Once reality sets in, they aren't so gung ho. Getting killed or maimed, physically or mentally, for life isn't worth the oil or georgie's obsession with his daddy allegedly being targeted to die.

rowdee  posted on  2005-10-29   21:11:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: christine (#7)

Where are they going to get the "dumb, stupid animals" for it?

There ya go again, quoting that stalwart merikan, good ol henry k!! *PUKE*

rowdee  posted on  2005-10-29   21:13:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Dakmar, Flintlock, rowdee, christine, all (#22)

I guess I'm going to put you on Bozo for awhile too, kind of a 'time out', FRiend.

Jeeze, Dak ol' buddy, I guess we're gonna have to start a 'Free Dakmar' fund to get you out of trouble along with Flintlock and rowdee.

Can't leave y'all in l'il jimmie's l'il gitmo all weekend. LOL!

There's kind of a freedom in being completly screwed.

Esso  posted on  2005-10-29   21:21:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: _Jim (#22)

Congress also passed resolution(s) regarding Iraq, and Germany had not directly attacked us either, yet we 'declared war'.

I'm sure a well educated person, such as your self, knows that it was Germany that declared war on the US. Right?

I'm also sure you can point out the formal Iraqi decleration of War on the US.

No rush.

"The more I see of life, the less I fear death" - Me.

Pissed Off Janitor  posted on  2005-10-29   21:23:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Pissed Off Janitor (#32)

it was Germany that declared war on the US. Right?

And Iraq had never ceased hostilities with us ...

Remember tbe no-fly zone we had to enforce, with force?

The repeated firing of rockets at our jets (of course, the HARM missiles would take out the RADAR sites when that happened)?

_Jim  posted on  2005-10-29   21:27:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: _Jim (#33)

The repeated firing of rockets at our jets...

...with the rockets we sold him. Not to meantion the self propelled Artillary and millions in loans we gave him.

And Iraq had never ceased hostilities with us ...

After we attacked Iraq first in defense of a hardline Islamic nation that never liked us in the first place.

"The more I see of life, the less I fear death" - Me.

Pissed Off Janitor  posted on  2005-10-29   21:34:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Esso (#31)

FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK! FREEDAK!

rowdee  posted on  2005-10-29   21:39:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Pissed Off Janitor (#34)

.with the rockets we sold him.

I think the bulk of that 'crap' was Soviet era/Russion crap the former Soviet block countries sold hom.

_Jim  posted on  2005-10-29   21:40:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: _Jim (#36)

I think the bulk of that 'crap' was Soviet era/Russion crap the former Soviet block countries sold hom.

Your fibbing to us again.

Why don't you provide us with a link to support your silly claim.

avian virus  posted on  2005-10-29   21:43:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: rowdee (#35)

hahahahahahahaha!

The crime to name a covert CIA official pales in comparison with conspiring to lead the nation to war under false pretenses.

christine  posted on  2005-10-29   21:44:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Pissed Off Janitor (#34)

After we attacked Iraq first in defense of a hardline Islamic nation that

I'm on the verge of loosing phase-lock on this one; the continued hostilities resulted from action he took in rolling into Kuwait and we then pushed him back.

Or so I thought it went down that way ...

So, what treaties did we have in effect with Kuwait in the late 80's early 90's?

_Jim  posted on  2005-10-29   21:44:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: _Jim (#39)

After State told him we didn't care much about their regional conflict.

We duped him into invading as a pretext to go in and hammer him.

BUSH: The man is practicing fuzzy math again. There's differences. Under Vice President Gore's plan, he is going to grow the federal government in the largest increase since Lyndon Baines Johnson in 1965.

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-10-29   21:46:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: _Jim (#39)

So, what treaties did we have in effect with Kuwait in the late 80's early 90's?

Recall that Saddam asked April Glaspie if he could invade Kuwait before going in.

She said yes. More precisely, she said that America would not interfere with an Arab matter.

Saddam went in with our permission.

But you knew that.

avian virus  posted on  2005-10-29   21:47:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: christine (#38)

The crime to name a covert CIA official pales in comparison with conspiring to lead the nation to war under false pretenses.

I wonder, have you by chance read the Duelfer report?

I noticed your tagline is the reason I ask ...

_Jim  posted on  2005-10-29   21:55:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: christine (#38)

Here is the opening section of the "Key Findings" executive summary section, and excdefrpoted below are the first two bulleted items:

Key Findings

Saddam Husayn so dominated the Iraqi Regime that its strategic intent was his alone. He wanted to end sanctions while preserving the capability to reconstitute his weapons of mass destruction (WMD) when sanctions were lifted.

- Saddam totally dominated the Regime's strategic decision making. He initiated most of the strategic thinking upon which decisions were made, whether in matters of war and peace (such as invading Kuwait), maintaining WMD as a national strategic goal, or on how Iraq was to position itself in the international community. Loyal dissent was discouraged and constructive variations to the implementation of his wishes on strategic issues were rare. Saddam was the Regime in a strategic sense and his intent became Iraq's strategic policy.

- Saddam's primary goal from 1991 to 2003 was to have UN sanctions lifted, while maintaining the security of the Regime. He sought to balance the need to cooperate with UN inspections--to gain support for lifting sanctions?with his intention to preserve Iraq's intellectual capital for WMD with a minimum of foreign intrusiveness and loss of face. Indeed, this remained the goal to the end of the Regime, as the starting of any WMD program, conspicuous or otherwise, risked undoing the progress achieved in eroding sanctions and jeopardizing a political end to the embargo and international monitoring.

So, we can take it from that that the threat was indeed a gathering threat, with Saddam just biding his time until sanctions could be lifted and he would be back in business with full-scale WMD programs ...

_Jim  posted on  2005-10-29   22:00:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: _Jim (#43)

Why do you have to cherry pick facts this way?

Are you afraid to give us a link?

Does the next sentence, which you didn't post, blow you out of the water?

avian virus  posted on  2005-10-29   22:03:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: _Jim (#43)

I mean _Jim, how many times have you been caught out in a bald faced lie just this evening - three?

avian virus  posted on  2005-10-29   22:04:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Esso (#31)

I need my medicines

"I don’t care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do. The important question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it." - William S. Burroughs

Dakmar  posted on  2005-10-29   22:04:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: _Jim (#43)

So much for that.

BUSH: The man is practicing fuzzy math again. There's differences. Under Vice President Gore's plan, he is going to grow the federal government in the largest increase since Lyndon Baines Johnson in 1965.

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-10-29   22:05:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: All (#47)

He should be.. Duelfer nearly gutted the Administrations Iraq claims.

BUSH: The man is practicing fuzzy math again. There's differences. Under Vice President Gore's plan, he is going to grow the federal government in the largest increase since Lyndon Baines Johnson in 1965.

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-10-29   22:06:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: _Jim (#43)

U.S. 'Almost All Wrong' on Weapons Report on Iraq Contradicts Bush Administration Claims

By Dana Priest and Walter Pincus Washington Post Staff Writers Thursday, October 7, 2004; Page A01

The 1991 Persian Gulf War and subsequent U.N. inspections destroyed Iraq's illicit weapons capability and, for the most part, Saddam Hussein did not try to rebuild it, according to an extensive report by the chief U.S. weapons inspector in Iraq that contradicts nearly every prewar assertion made by top administration officials about Iraq.

Charles A. Duelfer, whom the Bush administration chose to complete the U.S. investigation of Iraq's weapons programs, said Hussein's ability to produce nuclear weapons had "progressively decayed" since 1991. Inspectors, he said, found no evidence of "concerted efforts to restart the program."

The findings were similar on biological and chemical weapons. While Hussein had long dreamed of developing an arsenal of biological agents, his stockpiles had been destroyed and research stopped years before the United States led the invasion of Iraq in March 2003. Duelfer said Hussein hoped someday to resume a chemical weapons effort after U.N. sanctions ended, but had no stocks and had not researched making the weapons for a dozen years.

Duelfer's report, delivered yesterday to two congressional committees, represents the government's most definitive accounting of Hussein's weapons programs, the assumed strength of which the Bush administration presented as a central reason for the war. While previous reports have drawn similar conclusions, Duelfer's assessment went beyond them in depth, detail and level of certainty.

"We were almost all wrong" on Iraq, Duelfer told a Senate panel yesterday.

President Bush, Vice President Cheney and other top administration officials asserted before the U.S. invasion that Iraq was reconstituting its nuclear weapons program, had chemical and biological weapons and maintained links to al Qaeda affiliates to whom it might give such weapons to use against the United States.

But after extensive interviews with Hussein and his key lieutenants, Duelfer concluded that Hussein was not motivated by a desire to strike the United States with banned weapons,but wanted them to enhance his image in the Middle East and to deter Iran, against which Iraq had fought a devastating eight-year war. Hussein believed that "WMD helped save the regime multiple times," the report said.

The crime to name a covert CIA official pales in comparison with conspiring to lead the nation to war under false pretenses.

christine  posted on  2005-10-29   22:09:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Jhoffa_ (#48)

Duelfer nearly gutted the Administrations Iraq claims.

yep, see what I just posted. lmao.

The crime to name a covert CIA official pales in comparison with conspiring to lead the nation to war under false pretenses.

christine  posted on  2005-10-29   22:10:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Jhoffa_ (#47)

oh! you posted the same report!

The crime to name a covert CIA official pales in comparison with conspiring to lead the nation to war under false pretenses.

christine  posted on  2005-10-29   22:11:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: christine (#49)

PS: It gets worse..

BUSH: The man is practicing fuzzy math again. There's differences. Under Vice President Gore's plan, he is going to grow the federal government in the largest increase since Lyndon Baines Johnson in 1965.

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-10-29   22:11:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: christine (#51)

Great minds and all that shit..

BUSH: The man is practicing fuzzy math again. There's differences. Under Vice President Gore's plan, he is going to grow the federal government in the largest increase since Lyndon Baines Johnson in 1965.

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-10-29   22:11:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: _Jim (#43)

Jim. I know you've got two accounts going and you can see this.

I also know you're playing the bozo game to gain time to spin up answers to the questions you can't answer now. You want to come back later and bomb people with new spin when the people are no longer on line. This is a slimey tactic. I think we need to gin up a way to deal with it.

avian virus  posted on  2005-10-29   22:12:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: avian virus (#37)

I think the bulk of that 'crap' was Soviet era/Russion crap the former Soviet block countries sold hom.

Your fibbing to us again.

Shhhhhh...don't shatter his fantasy.

I have a wall poster from Janes Defense that outlines the makeup of both sides during Gulf War 1. It's amazing how much US (and EU) hardware fought on the Iraqi side.

I remember years ago watching footage from just before the GWI and saw film of Iraqi troops riding around in US built M113s.

"The more I see of life, the less I fear death" - Me.

Pissed Off Janitor  posted on  2005-10-29   22:14:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: _Jim (#43)

_Jim. Posting a cherry picked portion of the report this way is a deliberate attempt to mislead people. In other words, it's a deliberate, calculated, bald faced lie.

Does that raise the count to four for this eveing?

_Jim, if you're correct in your philosophies, why do you need this dishonesty to support yourself? If you're right, can't you just give us the facts?

avian virus  posted on  2005-10-29   22:15:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: dashJim, Everyone (#38)

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rowdee  posted on  2005-10-29   22:16:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: avian virus (#56)

Sure it is, and why not lie?

It's not like _Jim takes an interest in politics in the first place.

He just enjoys waving his ass in everyones face.

Sort of like a radio "shock jock" here's a man with no original thought and nothing even remotely interesting to say. Thus, to get any attention at all, he has to resort to button pushing and increasingly outragous claims to "keep the phones ringing"

Sad actually.. As he obviously would like to be a respected thinker. He just doesn't have the horsepower and is relegated to the kind of dishonesty you see posted above.

BUSH: The man is practicing fuzzy math again. There's differences. Under Vice President Gore's plan, he is going to grow the federal government in the largest increase since Lyndon Baines Johnson in 1965.

Jhoffa_  posted on  2005-10-29   22:20:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: christine (#49)

U.S. 'Almost All Wrong' on Weapons Report on Iraq Contradicts Bush Administration Claims

...

Hussein's ability to produce nuclear weapons had "progressively decayed" since 1991. Inspectors, he said, found no evidence of "concerted efforts to restart the program."

AND I just posted material from that particular report that contradicts the evaluation and *careful* excerpting by the reporters who wrote the story that you cited:

Saddam's primary goal from 1991 to 2003 was to have UN sanctions lifted ...

Indeed, this remained the goal to the end of the Regime, as the starting of any WMD program, conspicuous or otherwise, risked undoing the progress achieved in eroding sanctions and jeopardizing a political end to the embargo and international monitoring.

Sure, since 1991 his capability to actually crank out WMD had been trimmed, but, he was maintaing the intellectual wherewithall (the people, scientists, the knowledge) to gear up when the time became right, when sanctions were lifted and inspections stopped. See the excerpt again above for that part.

Here is URL of the Summary (pdf format): http: //www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Comp_Report_Key_Findings.pdf

_Jim  posted on  2005-10-29   22:21:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: Jhoffa_ (#58)

So whadda you think?

Are _Jim and bondhue just two open browsers on the same machine? One can bozo the world while the other keeps watch?

avian virus  posted on  2005-10-29   22:22:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: _Jim (#59)

Saddam's primary goal from 1991 to 2003 was to have UN sanctions lifted ...

The fiend! How un-American!

"I don’t care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do. The important question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it." - William S. Burroughs

Dakmar  posted on  2005-10-29   22:24:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: rowdee (#57)

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There's kind of a freedom in being completly screwed.

Esso  posted on  2005-10-29   22:24:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: _Jim (#59)

AND I just posted material from that particular report that contradicts the evaluation and *careful* excerpting by the reporters who wrote the story that you cited:

No _Jim, read the thread above, you posted a carefully cherry picked portion of the report without an accompanying link.

You then implied that you carefully selected portion proved your point when it did not.

After your ass got whacked really bad, you come back and post a link in an attempt to save face - after everyone has seen the part of the report that makes a liar out of you.

Really, really lame.

avian virus  posted on  2005-10-29   22:26:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: _Jim (#59)

Well, bless your lil ol heart there, dashjim!

YOU rely on faux news for your knowledge..........and then try to excoriate me for watching cbs.....when I don't even get cbs or any of the broadcast networks!

What a joke............ROTF! Have you tried comedy central yet?

rowdee  posted on  2005-10-29   22:26:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: Pissed Off Janitor (#55)

I have a wall poster from Janes Defense that outlines the makeup of both sides during Gulf War 1. It's amazing how much US (and EU) hardware fought on the Iraqi side.

You're dancing around the periphery on this and note naming names; what are the missiles or missile systems that Iraq possessed for GWI?

Certain 'export restrictions' on many technical devices that have military use would have precluded a lot of stuff from being sent, and I suspect NONE of our top of the line gear was sold ...

_Jim  posted on  2005-10-29   22:27:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Esso, rowdee (#62)

I'm free, and freedom tastes of reality

"I don’t care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do. The important question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it." - William S. Burroughs

Dakmar  posted on  2005-10-29   22:27:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Dakmar (#61)

Now Dak.........I've been trying to get you freed! But oh no.......you have to keep making sense!

Please stop it!

I mean, I have had a goal to win the lottery, too.........but just the other day someone told me I have to buy tickets for the damned thing! Do you suppose dashjim ever thought that Saddam would have to have the shit to make wmds in order to satisfy his goal, wish, or desire.....?

Nah........I bet that isn't covered in da talkin points.

rowdee  posted on  2005-10-29   22:29:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: _Jim (#65)

You're dancing around the periphery on this and note naming names; what are the missiles or missile systems that Iraq possessed for GWI?

You tell us _Jim. You're the one who first made the silly and unsupported claim.

avian virus  posted on  2005-10-29   22:30:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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