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Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: Oath Keepers Launches Effort to Recall Members of Congress
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/po ... -to-recall-members-of-congress
Published: Dec 29, 2011
Author: Bob Adelmann
Post Date: 2011-12-29 09:20:21 by Ada
Keywords: None
Views: 437
Comments: 31

In response to the passage by the House and the Senate of the National Defense Appropriations Act of 2012 (NDAA), Stewart Rhodes (left), founder of Oath Keepers, announced a national effort to recall every member who voted for the act.

Oath Keepers was founded by Rhodes to encourage current members of the military services and veterans to keep their oath to protect and defend the Constitution against “all enemies, foreign and domestic.” Members commit to following certain “orders we will not obey,” including, as especially relevant to NDAA, Number Three:

We will NOT obey any order to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to trial by military tribunal.

One of the causes of the American Revolution was the denial of the right to jury trial, the use of admiralty courts (military tribunals) instead, and the application of the laws of war to the colonists. After that experience, and being well aware of the infamous Star Chamber in English history, the Founders ensured that the international laws of war would apply only to foreign enemies, not to the American people. Thus, the Article III Treason Clause establishes the only constitutional form of trial for an American, not serving in the military, who is accused of making war on his own nation. Such a trial for treason must be before a civilian jury, not a tribunal.

The international laws of war do not trump our Bill of Rights. We reject as illegitimate any such claimed power, as did the Supreme Court in Ex Parte Milligan (1865). Any attempt to apply the laws of war to American civilians, under any pretext, such as against domestic “militia” groups the government brands “domestic terrorists,” is an act of war and an act of treason.

What appears to be reasonable on the surface is complicated by the actual “Oath of Enlistment” sworn by members of the military, to wit:

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

Oath Keepers has taken the position that when the President gives an order not in compliance with the Constitution, their members should ignore the order and follow the Constitution. Accordingly, when Congress gives powers that it doesn’t possess or that violate the Constitution to the Executive branch, it must be brought to justice. As Rhodes noted in his announcement, “We consider the NDAA of 2012 to be a declaration of war on the American people, and an act of treason … Oath Keepers … across the nation will lead or assist efforts in their states to remove any member of Congress, regardless of party, who voted for this monstrosity.” He added:

These politicians from both parties betrayed our trust, and violated the oath they took to defend the Constitution. It’s not about the left or right, it’s about our Bill of Rights. Without the Bill of Rights, there is no America. It is the Crown Jewel of our Constitution, and the high-water mark of Western Civilization.

As two time Medal of Honor winner Marine General Smedley Butler once said, “There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights.” [It is] time to fight.

Rhodes defends his strong stand by reminding those who will listen that claims by any administration to be able to arrest an American citizen without charge and hold that person in military detention without access to legal counsel and then try that person by a military tribunal are utterly without merit and basis in law. He says, “Such a practice is a direct violation not just of the right to Grand Jury indictment and jury trial under our Bill of Rights, but [it] also violates the Article III Treason Clause…”

He recommends reading Antonin Scalia’s dissent in the Supreme Court case Hamdi v. Rumsfeld where the majority held that “there is no bar to this Nation’s holding one of its own citizens as an enemy combatant.” Scalia’s dissent confronts the core of the constitutional protections against Executive claims that security overrides freedom:

The Founders well understood the difficult tradeoff between safety and freedom. “Safety from external danger,” Hamilton declared, “is the most powerful director of national conduct. Even the ardent love of liberty will, after a time, give way to its dictates. The violent destruction of life and property incident to war; the continual effort and alarm attendant on a state of continual danger, will compel nations the most attached to liberty, to resort for repose and security to institutions which have a tendency to destroy their civil and political rights. To be more safe, they, at length, become willing to run the risk of being less free.” The Federalist No. 8, p. 33.

The Founders warned us about the risk, and equipped us with a Constitution designed to deal with it.

Many think it not only inevitable but entirely proper that liberty give way to security in times of national crisis — that, at the extremes of military exigency, inter arma silent leges [in times of war, the law falls silent]. Whatever the general merits of the view that war silences law or modulates its voice, that view has no place in the interpretation and application of a Constitution designed precisely to confront war and, in a manner that accords with democratic principles, to accommodate it. Because the Court has proceeded to meet the current emergency in a manner the Constitution does not envision, I respectfully dissent.

When questioned about when would be the appropriate time that “we the people” should rise up against the pending dictatorship and imposition of martial law that the NDAA implies, Rhodes responded:

We veterans will exhaust all peaceful and lawful means left to us before we ever consider taking up arms. As Jefferson said in our Declaration of Independence:

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.

In an interview at The Daily Bell in November, Rhodes noted that membership in Oath Keepers exceeds 10,000 dues-paying members, with hundreds more joining every month. But he said that what really matters is that for every member, “there are thousands of others who are of like mind, but who are part of the unknown and unknowable mass below the surface of the “Oath Keepers iceberg.”

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#1. To: Ada (#0)

It's about time this started happening.

For those members of Congress who voted for this bill measure, there should be impeachment proceedings against them. Many of these members who voted for that bill support communists and communism. These members of Congress need to be immediately escorted out of office as it is they who are the sworn enemy of the people of the United States of America.

It is unAmerican that these members support such a bill, all the while they continually support communist activities, whereas our American scientists working in research and development labs for our government, must take FBI background checks and have security clearance access to such labs. Even worse is that all the creation involved in satellite testing, they do not own. Instead, their intellectual property is given to the fucking chinese government.

If you've ever watched "Falcon and the Snowman", it was based on a true story. A friend of mine worked for a government high level r&d facility in California. The people working in the higher position were selling our military satellite technology to the chinese.

purplerose  posted on  2011-12-29   16:04:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Ada, purplerose (#0)

In response to the passage by the House and the Senate of the National Defense Appropriations Act of 2012 (NDAA), Stewart Rhodes (left), founder of Oath Keepers, announced a national effort to recall every member who voted for the act.

Oath Keepers was founded by Rhodes to encourage current members of the military services and veterans to keep their oath to protect and defend the Constitution against “all enemies, foreign and domestic.” Members commit to following certain “orders we will not obey,” including, as especially relevant to NDAA, Number Three:

We will NOT obey any order to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to trial by military tribunal.

This is appalling. And, I agree, those who voted for this measure should be impeached, IMMEDIATELY! ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2011-12-29   16:46:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Ada (#0)

hang 'em for the treason they have committed, when the states stop getting pork barrel gigs they'll get the hint that they need to send replacements.


the most factual thing ever posted by buckeroo
I have no freaking' clue. buckeroo posted on 2010-07-24 21:33:00 ET

IRTorqued  posted on  2011-12-29   17:02:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Ada (#0)

Anyone interested needs to find out if you live in a state that allows the recall of federal officials, and get involved.

echo5sierra  posted on  2011-12-29   22:56:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: echo5sierra (#4) (Edited)

The First Amendment to the Constitution refers to such right when petitioning your grievances to your government. If you can petition to impeach your president, you can impeach to remove those senators by invoking the First Amendment. Each state has their own constitutions as well. But those constitutions are consonant to the United States constitution. You may wish to contact your State Attorney General re the State statute on recall issues of federal public officers.

purplerose  posted on  2011-12-30   15:23:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Ada (#0)

The stupidity of politicians is astonishing. They push and push and then the tipping point is reached and things go boom.

"There are only 800,000 state, local, and federal law enforcement officers in the entire country." - Vox Day

Turtle  posted on  2011-12-30   15:27:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: BTP Holdings (#2)

This is appalling. And, I agree, those who voted for this measure should be impeached, IMMEDIATELY! ;)

Is that before or after the Tar and Feathers?

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2011-12-30   15:49:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Ada (#0) (Edited)

I'm posting the link to the list of members of each State Senator who voted for this bill.

https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=112&session=1&vote=00230#position

You can also type into Wikipedia to find out about your state. Here's an example. Take a State and type in recalling senators of that State:

ballotpedia.org/wiki/inde...rning_recall_in_Wisconsin

purplerose  posted on  2011-12-30   15:56:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Ada (#0)

And here is the procedure for those living on the Left Coast who wish to recall their State Senators.

www.sos.ca.gov/elections/recall.pdf

purplerose  posted on  2011-12-30   16:09:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Original_Intent (#7)

Is that before or after the Tar and Feathers?

Tar and Feathers was a just response to those who would betray the people. Impeachemnt is still appropriate. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2011-12-31   12:18:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: purplerose (#5)

The First Amendment to the Constitution refers to such right when petitioning your grievances to your government. If you can petition to impeach your president, you can impeach to remove those senators by invoking the First Amendment. Each state has their own constitutions as well. But those constitutions are consonant to the United States constitution. You may wish to contact your State Attorney General re the State statute on recall issues of federal public officers.

Sure, you can petition to impeach any one. That doesn't mean it is going to happen. How would the government grant your petition? By magically invoking a majority vote by the House to impeach themselves? Would they then hold themselves on trial? The Constitution gives that power to the respective houses of Congress, and in the case of the President, to the house. My point is that the House is not going to impeach itself, and neither is the Senate, since almost the whole body voted for it.

Getting rid of them by recall or by election is the way to go. Now, if they come through your door at 2 am, like they did in the USSR, well, that is a decision you have to make.

echo5sierra  posted on  2012-01-01   13:38:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: echo5sierra, purplerose (#11)

Now, if they come through your door at 2 am, like they did in the USSR, well, that is a decision you have to make.

Then I'll likely go out on a stretcher, or they will. I'm a realist. They have more guns and thugs - it is simple math.

"You cannot conquer a free man. The most you can do is kill him." ~ Robert Anson Heinlein

What we have to realize, and if the forces of liberty can ever regain control, is that the one most fundamental flaw in the Constitution is a means for the people to enforce the Constitution upon the government short of armed force. There should be other safeguards - such as a separate body whose only function is to rule upon the Constitutionality of any proposed legislation - and to reject such legislation preventing it from ever coming to a vote if it does not pass muster. Sort of a "Watchdog Committee" - which also has the power to suspend from membership any member of Congress for incompetence, moral turpitude, violating their oath, or terms of office.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2012-01-01   13:50:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Original_Intent (#12)

There should be other safeguards - such as a separate body whose only function is to rule upon the Constitutionality of any proposed legislation - and to reject such legislation preventing it from ever coming to a vote if it does not pass muster. Sort of a "Watchdog Committee" - which also has the power to suspend from membership any member of Congress for incompetence, moral turpitude, violating their oath, or terms of office.

Any safeguards we put into effect will only slow down the inevitable effect of human nature. The people are the ultimate safeguard. Our country is only as free as the people who live in it want to be.

echo5sierra  posted on  2012-01-01   18:22:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: echo5sierra, Original_Intent (#13)

The people are the ultimate safeguard. Our country is only as free as the people who live in it want to be.

I'm sorry, who did you say was on American Idol tonight?


As Gary Lloyd said, "When the government’s boot is on your throat, whether it is a left boot or a right boot is of no consequence."

farmfriend  posted on  2012-01-01   18:24:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: echo5sierra (#13)

There should be other safeguards - such as a separate body whose only function is to rule upon the Constitutionality of any proposed legislation - and to reject such legislation preventing it from ever coming to a vote if it does not pass muster. Sort of a "Watchdog Committee" - which also has the power to suspend from membership any member of Congress for incompetence, moral turpitude, violating their oath, or terms of office.

Any safeguards we put into effect will only slow down the inevitable effect of human nature. The people are the ultimate safeguard. Our country is only as free as the people who live in it want to be.

While I agree philosophically that does not mean we cannot make it as difficult as possible for would be tyrants. No governmental structure of any kind is perfect but we can make the government machine, with careful engineering, self correcting to some extent. By adding a mechanism to allow direct citizen challenges of unconstitutional laws, which I have suggested elsewhere, we provide a mechanism to provide grounds for challenge short of bloodshed.

As long as mankind has been around there have always been more Sheep than Sheep Dogs - but we, you - me, and others, can be rather ferocious in protecting the flock, despite themselves, when we have to be.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2012-01-01   18:38:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: farmfriend, echo5sierra (#14)

I'm sorry, who did you say was on American Idol tonight?

I'm sorry, but Sheep Dogs don't watch American Idol.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2012-01-01   18:40:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: echo5sierra, farmfriend (#15)

Footnote:

I am a realist, but I do recognize the basic concepts of the U.S. Constitution is a sound basis for a free society. The real problems with the Constitution is not the concept it attempted to enshrine but its lack of self correction and means of ready enforceable redress when the Executive, Judiciary, or Congress attempts to exceed its Constitution authority.

Yes, freedom begins in the heart and soul, but I believe that deep inside even the Sheeple wish to be free, they are just to timid to rise up and demand of the government that it stay within the due bounds of the document which created it and grants its limited powers. Much of the slow expansion of the tyranny has been through the Courts which are the least responsive, to the public, of the major divisions of government. The perversion and willful false interpretation of the "Commerce Clause" has created more havoc, and loss of freedom, than any 100 acts of Congress. As well the false doctrine of Marbury Vs. Madison, along with any number of Supreme Court Rulings based upon the Un-Constitutional use of the Judicial "Stare decicis" rather than the body of the written text of the Constitution itself has wreaked much havoc. Reliance upon "precedent", which is nowhere mentioned in the Constitution, is as well another source of aberration as it is reliance upon someone's opinion of what the law or Constitution says rather than upon the actual Statute or Constitutional provision which applies.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2012-01-01   18:58:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Original_Intent (#12)

Then I'll likely go out on a stretcher, or they will. I'm a realist. They have more guns and thugs - it is simple math.

Your post disappoints me but this is not the first time I have heard this before. I remember a professor telling our class such tripe that our government outnumbers us in guns. Then, this fuckturd commie pos had the gall to tell us he was afraid of us Americans. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha.

You say "they" have more guns and thugs???

Is that why "they" want us to register our firearms? Or turn over our firearms? Because, without us having those firearms in our possession, they can choose to quarter in and outside your property, without your consent and as so prescribed by the law.

Or is it the other way that they and their thuggies are outnumbered by us in arms. And that they actually FEAR us.

purplerose  posted on  2012-01-02   21:24:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: purplerose (#18)

Your post disappoints me but this is not the first time I have heard this before.

I am a realist. They are organized and we are a bunch of individuals - any attempt to form a serious militia would instantly infiltrated and subverted from within. If it comes down to a shooting war of them against us we have total anarchy - armed anarchy. These people are serious and they have invested a lot of our money into weapons, high tech stuff you never see paraded around, with which to put down a revolt. That has been why they are so intent on psychological means by which to dumb down and enslave the serfs. That is also why they hate home schoolers because their kids are not going through the psychological conditioning being played out in publik skools.

If it were to come to a shooting war it would be a bloody mess. The way to beat them is to wake people up and keep waking them up. The NDAA was an wake-up call to a lot of people. Those of us who have been dismissed as kooks by those living on steady diet of MSM PsyOps and Propaganda are beginning to get it - that everything we have said was happening, or going to happen, has happened.

The game is not over yet.

Stay Tuned.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2012-01-02   21:52:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Original_Intent (#19)

So what if they are organized. They do not scare me at all. None! The way to wake people up is to educate people on their right to keep and bear arms being that of an individual right...not a collective right. In other words, you don't give up your arms just because an organized groups of outlawed loons have outgunned you. The reason why they want people to give up their guns and even register them, is that it will make the goonsquad's job easier to find everybody. That's how Hitler succeeded in disarming the citizens.

purplerose  posted on  2012-01-02   23:13:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: purplerose (#20)

I haven't said anything about surrendering up our weapons. My point is that as long as we exist as "lone wolves" we get picked off one by one. The possibility of organizing in self defense against government tyranny does scare them - that is why they are trying to paint patriot groups as "domestic terrists'" because an armed and organized populace does worry them much more than individual incidents.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2012-01-02   23:22:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Original_Intent (#21) (Edited)

Actually, it is more easier for these goon squads to infiltrate an organized militia than one who acts in their individual capacity as you describe it as a "Lone wolf". It is the lone wolf types that make the goon's job difficult. It is also more easier to control a mass group of people than it is one who thinks alone. Where do you think the idea of mind control came from? It is used to control a large group of people. The same way it is much easier to infiltrate and discredit a group of militias than in doing so alone. That is why the Second Amendment was written as it was. It was not written to apply to a group of people or collective class. It's intent was meant to be for able-bodied individuals. And the reason for that is that were you to be with a group of people, you cannot really trust any one person to watch your back. Just one member of that group could be trained to shoot you all the while assuming the position as being a part of the group.

purplerose  posted on  2012-01-03   0:41:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: echo5sierra (#11)

Now, if they come through your door at 2 am, like they did in the USSR, well, that is a decision you have to make.

Guess that means we will go down in a blaze of glory since I am NOT going to give up my guns. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2012-01-04   16:24:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: purplerose (#22) (Edited)

It is the lone wolf types that make the goon's job difficult.

Catch me if you can!

BTW, I hear that the PTB intend to get our guns by using the U.N. to confiscate them. Fat chance! I hope they can eat lead. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2012-01-04   16:26:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: purplerose (#18)

Or is it the other way that they and their thuggies are outnumbered by us in arms. And that they actually FEAR us.

Heh, heh, heh! Got that one right. They ARE outnumbered. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2012-01-04   16:30:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Original_Intent (#21)

Take note of my signature quote:

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2012-01-04   16:32:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: BTP Holdings (#26)

Take note of my signature quote:

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

Exactly - "Lone Wolves" are also "Lone Targets". Beating back the tyranny requires association among like minded freedom lovers. That is why Ron Paul scares the elites so much - because he is building an organization of freedom loving people who are opposed to the growing tyranny.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2012-01-04   20:39:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: BTP Holdings (#24)

The way the U.N. will do the confiscating is by those guns that are registered. If you have to register your right, you don't have one. Of course, the U.N. is noted for being founded by a communist. And it is my understanding that most of our military soldiers wear the U.N. cap. Only one soldier do I recognize as truly honorable and that is Michael New. http://www.jefflindsay.com/MichaelNew.shtml

purplerose  posted on  2012-01-04   22:25:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: BTP Holdings (#24) (Edited)

BTW, I hear that the PTB intend to get our guns by using the U.N. to confiscate them. Fat chance! I hope they can eat lead. ;)

I heard they will leave the bigger calibers alone though ;)

It is hard to free fools from the chains they revere. Voltaire

An ideal form of government is democracy tempered with assassination. Voltaire

intotheabyss  posted on  2012-01-04   22:30:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: purplerose (#28)

Michael New

I've heard his story. Good for him. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2012-01-07   13:11:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: intotheabyss (#29)

I heard they will leave the bigger calibers alone though

An ideal form of government is democracy tempered with assassination. Voltaire

LOL I do have a Maadi Griffin in the safe. That is a single shot .50 BMG. I was in the local gun shop and the guy told me I would need a helluva scope for it.

Voltaire was right on. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2012-01-07   13:14:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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