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Title: How Not To Argue That We’re Running Out Of Oil
Source:
Council on Foreign Relations
URL Source: http://blogs.cfr.org/levi/2012/01/2 ... -that-were-running-out-of-oil/
Published: Jan 28, 2012
Author: Michael Levi
Post Date: 2012-01-28 12:06:03 by lead.and.lag
Keywords: None
Views: 4045
Comments: 257
you can read this article here at the CFR site. the author, Michael Levi, is the David M. Rubenstein Senior Fellow for Energy and the Environment at the CFR, and his artticle is a mixture of disinformation, bad metaphors, and haywire logic. his argument, although it's kinda hard to pin down, seems to be: party on, dudes, and dont worry about oil. my comments, which are languishing, and most likey will die, in "awaiting moderation" limbo, go like this... does this mean that the PNAC/AEI/exxon people didnt have to do 9/11 in response to peak oil? 3000 american lives, countless lives elsewhere… wasted, because nobody saw shale oil coming. what a tragedy." and... http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1215/pnacprogress6272011.jpg this article is being discussed at theoildrum, despite attempts to derail it to a discussion of newt's moonbase scheme. "oh, man…
"here’s a map PNAC’s efforts in response to their misperceptions of peak oil.
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#103. To: PSUSA2 (#97)
Semi-Industrial Production of Aromatic HYdrocarbons from Natural Gas in Persia Why do you think methane is always found in hydrocarbon deposits? It's just like uranium, where in the case of uranium you'll find various isotopes of uranium along with its decay products. With petroleum, you'll find a wide range of hydrocarbons because it is an ongoing process, starting with simple methane and ending with tar and other solid hydrocarbons. Then perhaps you should stop swallowing the Kool-Aid and do a bit of research. And bring along an open mind and some common sense. But we seem to have great number of people here that are. lol -------------------------------------------------------- I"m not drinking your koolaid either. THat's common sense. Again, they need to prove it in the lab. And it must be able to be duplicated. -------------------------------------------------------- Methane- derived hydrocarbons produced under upper-mantle conditions
Already posted two examples. Production of higher molecular weight hydrocarbons from methane
CONVERSION OF METHANE TO GASOLINE-RANGE HYDROCARBONS
What it comes down to is that methane CAN be created from organic matter, such as decaying vegetation and animal carcasses. HOWEVER, methane can ALSO be formed due to natural processes found on other worlds, so that would mean that it can ALSO happen on this one. Various natural processes can and do convert simple methane, the building block of all other hydrocarbons, into higher forms. Hydrocarbon Rain Swells Titan's Lakes
I see some possible problems here. First of all, I can only get the general idea. I bet you can't do much better. And general ideas are not good ideas. They can be wrong and I/we would not know it. 2nd, page 1 paragraph 1, is says gasoline boiling temps, not gasoline. 3rd and most importantly, are these provable natural processes or are they strictly lab processes? I only read the first page. If I don't understand it, there's not much point in reading it all. About the only way to get to the truth is to ask a scientist (one without an agenda one way or the other). And I don't know any chemists or geologists or astronomers. -------------------------------------------------------- From the link; In the process described, the final hydrocarbon mixture is largely in the gasoline (C4-C10) boiling range . In other words, they produced hydrocarbons which boiled in the temperature range gasoline would boil at. Hence, they produced gasoline or gasoline like hydrocarbons. BTW, boiling is how they extract the various products from crude oil... What is it about the fact that various types of hydrocarbons are in abundance on other worlds that doesn't register with you? Are you saying that there had to have been dinosaurs there? If that was the case, why not say "we produced gasoline"? And I reiterate, again(!), that nothing has been written on whether this is a natural process or a lab process. You can turn gold into lead, in the lab. -------------------------------------------------------- It registers just fine. But hydrocarbons do not equal oil. -------------------------------------------------------- If that was the case, why not say "we produced gasoline"? Because it is a scientific paper, not a magazine article. They were being precise. And I reiterate, again(!), that nothing has been written on whether this is a natural process or a lab process. I've already posted an article for you where "upper mantle conditions" ie. conditions such as those which exist below the earth's crust were used to form heavier hydrocarbons such as ethane, propane and butane, from methane. It was back in post 107. See Mantle (geology) for a further explanation of the earth's mantle layers. You can turn gold into lead, in the lab. You can even turn lead into gold using a reactor. Or so I've read. Oil is nothing more than a soup of various types of hydrocarbons. Oil IS hydrocarbons. Anton Kolesnikov1,2, Vladimir G. Kutcherov2,3 & Alexander F. Goncharov1 Top of page There is widespread evidence that petroleum originates from biological processes1, 2, 3. Whether hydrocarbons can also be produced from abiogenic precursor molecules under the high-pressure, high-temperature conditions characteristic of the upper mantle remains an open question. It has been proposed that hydrocarbons generated in the upper mantle could be transported through deep faults to shallower regions in the Earth's crust, and contribute to petroleum reserves4, 5. Here we use in situ Raman spectroscopy in laser-heated diamond anvil cells to monitor the chemical reactivity of methane and ethane under upper-mantle conditions. We show that when methane is exposed to pressures higher than 2 GPa, and to temperatures in the range of 1,000–1,500 K, it partially reacts to form saturated hydrocarbons containing 2–4 carbons (ethane, propane and butane) and molecular hydrogen and graphite. Conversely, exposure of ethane to similar conditions results in the production of methane, suggesting that the synthesis of saturated hydrocarbons is reversible. Our results support the suggestion that hydrocarbons heavier than methane can be produced by abiogenic processes in the upper mantle. I'm not trying to be stubborn just for the sake of being stubborn. But there is nothing in that article that supports abiotic oil. In fact, it explicitly supports the opposite, and calls abiotic oil a "open question", as well as uses words "proposed", and "could be". It also possibly explains how there is methane in planets and comets etc, where there was no life. Don't get me wrong. I hope abiotic oil is true. But hope doesn't get the job done. -------------------------------------------------------- Oh, that's not covered in his "Talking Points Manual" so he's not allowed to admit to their existence despite multiple probes confirming it. If the Peak Oil disinfo artists admitted that hydrocarbons exist in abundance in the outer Solar System then they have to explain how the Great Dinosaur Migration to Titan took place. Those pesky dinosaurs are everywhere! They're as bad as cockroaches or internet shills. I'd have to look it up, but I don't think it's reversible. Or maybe it wasn't reversible when I was taught this. Things have changed since then. -------------------------------------------------------- I just released a huge cloud of methane, in your general direction. Sup, psycho? -------------------------------------------------------- Did you miss this part? Our results support the suggestion that hydrocarbons heavier than methane can be produced by abiogenic processes in the upper mantle. From UNIVERSITY OF BRISTOL SCHOOL OF CHEMISTRY Yep, and they'd have to explain how dinosaur poop was ejected so forcefully they created comets which turned into orbiting tarballs... Our results support the suggestion that hydrocarbons heavier than methane can be produced by abiogenic processes in the upper mantle. Well, uh, gee, uh, no. He just ignored it as one of them that "Inconvenient Truths". Algore would appreciate the tactic in a global sense. Twenty-Five Ways To Suppress Truth: The Rules of Disinformation 9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect. Yep, and they'd have to explain how dinosaur poop was ejected so forcefully they created comets which turned into orbiting tarballs... Them thar deenosors is amazin' critters. They're everywhere - and they have spaceships too. Our results support the suggestion that hydrocarbons heavier than methane can be produced by abiogenic processes in the upper mantle. I didn't miss it. It doesn't say crude oil. And again it is a possible explanation of how planets and comets have methane. And in planets specifically it might explain how they can have hydrocarbons heavier than methane, due to the heat/pressures involved in planets. Abiotic oil needs to be proven. If it's proven, the beer is on me. But don't work up a thirst just yet. And perhaps we can set up some wildcat rigs and be gazillionaires, with lots of hot women and endless cold beer and grilled steaks. -------------------------------------------------------- Note the common shill tactic above - limited hang out. Confronted with information and verifiable documented evidence that his position is false he will not admit it as that is contrary to the talking points and the PsyOp Spin. Never mind that to a chemist Hydrocarbons and Crude Oil are interchangeable and the chemist will prefer "hydrocarbon" as being technically and scientifically more accurate. Sure they are. Have you hugged a virologist today? You should. They have probably saved your worthless hide. -------------------------------------------------------- It doesn't say crude oil. It says they produced hydrocarbons that are heavier than methane, and that's a step in the direction of liquid hydrocarbons. They didn't subject the methane to hundreds of years worth of pressure and heat. Perhaps if and when that is done, it'll prove one way or another what happens under those conditions. And again it is a possible explanation of how planets and comets have methane. No, it explains how heavier hydrocarbons are formed. Methane is in abundance throughout Creation. Have you hugged your sphincter today? I don't buy that. If they can make industrial diamonds by using explosives, they can figure out how to make crude oil out of methane by duplicating natural processes. Methane is in abundance throughout Creation. It might answer how it got there. Or it might be one explanation among others. -------------------------------------------------------- Actually, crude oil is a blend of hydrocarbons with molecules having from 5 to over 20 carbon atoms. But, it is almost always, if not always found in combination with the lighter hydrocarbons such as methane, ethane, propane, and butane. That indicates to me that an ongoing process is going on which causes the lighter chains to combine into the heavier ones. Who says that it HASN'T already been done? I'm sure that any such inventor would either be very rich (paid off for his idea), or very dead. That indicates to me that an ongoing process is going on which causes the lighter chains to combine into the heavier ones. For any system to approach greater complexity requires an energy input. With the earth we can see that the temperature and pressure deeper down provides a source. I would suspect that the outer moons where hydrocarbons have been detected that we would see similar processes. After all what a lot of people don't get is that many of those outer moons are significantly larger than our own. Ganymede is about the size of Mars which is accorded planetary status. The real problem is thought processes. Too many people react and accept things on authority rather than looking at the data and deciding for themselves. Now we get into the conspiracy angle. Occams razor still applies. Then there is another law saying that the larger the conspiracy is, the more likely it is to break down. I don't know what the laws name is, so I'll just call it PSUSA's Law. You can't prove any such conspiracy any more than you can prove abiotic oil. All this conspiracy is, is an idea, nothing more. Perhaps it has been done, in the open, and we don't know about it yet. Or perhaps it's been tried many times, and failed. Who knows? -------------------------------------------------------- They've got plenty of that over there. ROTFLOL! "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke
Yep, and the simplest explanation is that heavier hydrocarbons are formed under intense heat and pressure from methane. In fact, the biological theory tells basically the same story, except that they toss in dinosaurs and ancient marine life to embelish their story a bit. What it comes down to is that organic matter decomposes into methane. Methane is then converted to heavier hydrocarbons. Thing is, methane doesn't HAVE to come from organic matter, it comes from within the bowels of the earth itself, as well as from within the bowels of other planets and moons where there were no dinosaurs nor ancient marine life. It's been well ingrained into the minds of people since the turn of the last century that oil comes from ancient organic matter, hence the term "fossil fuel". However, that was before they found hydrocarbon lakes and clouds on places like Titan, or that comets were basically solar orbiting tar balls. And it behooves the powers that be to keep people in the dark, since their hundred billion dollar per year profit might evaporate like liquid methane at normal room temperature.
Comments (144 - 257) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestI'll believe it when the abiotic "theory" is proven in the labs and is no longer this silly "well, if X happens with Y and Z, along with _____________ and
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#104. To: PSUSA2 (#102)
I am not a chemist. I am not a geologist. I am not an astronomer.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#105. To: All (#102)
I am not a chemist. I am not a geologist. I am not an astronomer.
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
#106. To: FormerLurker (#104)
Then perhaps you should stop swallowing the Kool-Aid and do a bit of research. And bring along an open mind and some common sense.
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
#107. To: PSUSA2 (#102)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#108. To: PSUSA2 (#106)
Again, they need to prove it in the lab. And it must be able to be duplicated.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#109. To: PSUSA2 (#106)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#110. To: PSUSA2 (#106)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#111. To: PSUSA2 (#106)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#112. To: PSUSA2, Original_Intent, All (#106)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#113. To: FormerLurker (#110)
CONVERSION OF METHANE TO GASOLINE-RANGE HYDROCARBONS
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
#114. To: PSUSA2 (#113)
(Edited)
2nd, page 1 paragraph 1, is says gasoline boiling temps, not gasoline.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#115. To: PSUSA2 (#113)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#116. To: FormerLurker (#114)
In other words, they produced hydrocarbons which boiled in the temperature range gasoline would boil at. Hence, they produced gasoline or gasoline like hydrocarbons.
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
#117. To: FormerLurker (#115)
What is it about the fact that various types of hydrocarbons are in abundance on other worlds that doesn't register with you?
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
#118. To: PSUSA2 (#116)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#119. To: PSUSA2 (#116)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#120. To: PSUSA2 (#117)
But hydrocarbons do not equal oil.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#121. To: FormerLurker (#118)
Methane-derived hydrocarbons produced under upper-mantle conditions
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
#122. To: FormerLurker, BSUSATOO, PUSUSATOO, PSUSA2, wudidiz, lead.and.lag, all (#115)
(Edited)
What is it about the fact that various types of hydrocarbons are in abundance on other worlds that doesn't register with you?
#123. To: FormerLurker (#119)
You can even turn lead into gold using a reactor. Or so I've read.
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
#124. To: Original_Intent (#122)
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
#125. To: PSUSA2 (#121)
I'm not trying to be stubborn just for the sake of being stubborn. But there is nothing in that article that supports abiotic oil. In fact, it explicitly supports the opposite, and calls abiotic oil a "open question", as well as uses words "proposed", and "could be".
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#126. To: PSUSA2 (#123)
I'd have to look it up, but I don't think it's reversible. Or maybe it wasn't reversible when I was taught this. Things have changed since then.
In 1980, Glenn Seaborg was successful in transmuting minute quantities lead to gold, possibly via bismuth. In 1972, Russian scientists found that the lead shielding of an experimental nuclear reactor near Lake Baikal in Siberia had unexpectedly turned to gold!
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#127. To: PSUSA2 (#124)
#128. To: Original_Intent, PSUSA2 (#122)
If the Peak Oil disinfo artists admitted that hydrocarbons exist in abundance in the outer Solar System then they have to explain how the Great Dinosaur Migration to Titan took place.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#129. To: FormerLurker (#125)
Did you miss this part?
#130. To: FormerLurker, BSUSATOO, PUSUSATOO, PSUSA2, wudidiz, lead.and.lag, all (#128)
If the Peak Oil disinfo artists admitted that hydrocarbons exist in abundance in the outer Solar System then they have to explain how the Great Dinosaur Migration to Titan took place.
#131. To: FormerLurker (#125)
Did you miss this part?
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
#132. To: FormerLurker (#128)
#133. To: Original_Intent (#132)
Never mind that to a chemist Hydrocarbons and Crude Oil are interchangeable
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
#134. To: PSUSA2 (#131)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#135. To: PSUSA2 (#133)
#136. To: FormerLurker (#134)
They didn't subject the methane to hundreds of years worth of pressure and heat. Perhaps if and when that is done, it'll prove one way or another what happens under those conditions.
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
#137. To: Original_Intent (#132)
Never mind that to a chemist Hydrocarbons and Crude Oil are interchangeable and the chemist will prefer "hydrocarbon" as being technically and scientifically more accurate.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#138. To: PSUSA2 (#136)
I don't buy that. If they can make industrial diamonds by using explosives, they can figure out how to make crude oil out of methane by duplicating natural processes.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#139. To: FormerLurker (#137)
But, it is almost always, if not always found in combination with the lighter hydrocarbons such as methane, ethane, propane, and butane.
#140. To: FormerLurker (#138)
Who says that it HASN'T already been done? I'm sure that any such inventor would either be very rich (paid off for his idea), or very dead.
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
#141. To: PSUSA2 (#10)
finding sand for the kids sandboxes.
#142. To: PSUSA2, Original_Intent (#140)
Occams razor still applies
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#143. To: Original_Intent (#139)
The real problem is thought processes. Too many people react and accept things on authority rather than looking at the data and deciding for themselves.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
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