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Title: How Not To Argue That We’re Running Out Of Oil
Source:
Council on Foreign Relations
URL Source: http://blogs.cfr.org/levi/2012/01/2 ... -that-were-running-out-of-oil/
Published: Jan 28, 2012
Author: Michael Levi
Post Date: 2012-01-28 12:06:03 by lead.and.lag
Keywords: None
Views: 3846
Comments: 257
you can read this article here at the CFR site. the author, Michael Levi, is the David M. Rubenstein Senior Fellow for Energy and the Environment at the CFR, and his artticle is a mixture of disinformation, bad metaphors, and haywire logic. his argument, although it's kinda hard to pin down, seems to be: party on, dudes, and dont worry about oil. my comments, which are languishing, and most likey will die, in "awaiting moderation" limbo, go like this... does this mean that the PNAC/AEI/exxon people didnt have to do 9/11 in response to peak oil? 3000 american lives, countless lives elsewhere… wasted, because nobody saw shale oil coming. what a tragedy." and... http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/1215/pnacprogress6272011.jpg this article is being discussed at theoildrum, despite attempts to derail it to a discussion of newt's moonbase scheme. "oh, man…
"here’s a map PNAC’s efforts in response to their misperceptions of peak oil.
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#91. To: Artisan (#90)
OK I found it. Or, I found one. It is an excellent example of what I am talking about when it comes to agendas. I'll start another post on it in a few minutes.
-------------------------------------------------------- gates speech is convoluted explaining his formula but his point remains, vaccine the world and the population numbers will decline, a goal which he advocates. yet vaccines save lives? yeah right. they also admittedly sterilize people using vaccines.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Oil is a hydrocarbon. Methane is a precursor to oil. Wow. With logic like that, you can't possibly go wrong. Methane is a precursor to oil? Really? If you want to play chemist, you might want to do some basic research first. THen. maybe you can fake it more convincingly. THen you might be able to convince others, if they are gullible. -------------------------------------------------------- Methane is a hydrocarbon chain with just one carbon atom (CH4). Ethane has two C atoms (C2H6), propane has 3 (C3H8) and butane has 4 (C4H10). Those are all gases which derive from simple methane. Hydrocarbon chains with 5 to 18 carbon atoms are liquid, and form substances such as naphthas (5 to 7 carbon atoms), gasoline which is blended from hydrocarbons with 7 to 11 carbon atoms, kerosene (12 to 15 carbon atoms), then lubricating oils. Hydrocarbon chains containing over 20 carbon atoms form paraffin wax, tar, and asphalt. Comets are made of hydrocarbons, including tar. Dinosaurs did not hatch comets, nor did they pee oil deep into the earth for that matter. Did you even know that crude oil is just a blend of many different hydrocarbons?
But comets have plate tectonics? Did "god" put the hydrocarbons there? H and C are the 2 most common elements in the universe. But that doesn't mean oil just happens. I'll believe it when the abiotic "theory" is proven in the labs and is no longer this silly "well, if X happens with Y and Z, along with _____________ and ______________". -------------------------------------------------------- So all you need is a blender? During fractional distillation, those different compounds are separated out. That is no big secret. But that does not mean that those separate compounds were separately blended together to make oil. -------------------------------------------------------- And oh yeah, on Titan, it actually rains hydrocarbons from the sky, and there are lakes of it.
WTF has plate tectonics have to do with hydrocarbons? Did "god" put the hydrocarbons there? Did God create space and time? Did God create H2O? Chemical building blocks permeate Creation. And they build upon themselves to form complex molecules, and eventually organisms. Let me ask you this. How do YOU think hydrocarbons are formed? Were the dinosaurs actually super smart and they built huge laboratories that turned everything including themselves into crude oil just waiting for Rockefellar and his boys to pump it out of the ground? Are you retarded? During fractional distillation, those different compounds are separated out. That is no big secret. But that does not mean that those separate compounds were separately blended together to make oil. Well no shit Sherlock. But it is still a BLEND, or a MIXTURE if you'd like. It is NOT a distinct COMPOUND which would be a unique substance in and of itself. It is simply a combination of different molecules, ie. a mixture or blend. In fact, gasoline IS a blend of different types of hydrocarbons, it isn't one specific hydrocarbon. Because someone posted an article that uses plate tectonics to explain his ideas freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/re....cgi?ArtNum=142906&Disp=0 and freedom4um.com/cgi-bin/re...ArtNum=142868&Disp=48#C48 Let me ask you this. How do YOU think hydrocarbons are formed? I will do the unthinkable on 4um and say I DON'T KNOW. And I refuse to act like I do by posting total crap and saying "I was right! See? I told you so!" I am not a chemist. I am not a geologist. I am not an astronomer. -------------------------------------------------------- Semi-Industrial Production of Aromatic HYdrocarbons from Natural Gas in Persia Why do you think methane is always found in hydrocarbon deposits? It's just like uranium, where in the case of uranium you'll find various isotopes of uranium along with its decay products. With petroleum, you'll find a wide range of hydrocarbons because it is an ongoing process, starting with simple methane and ending with tar and other solid hydrocarbons. Then perhaps you should stop swallowing the Kool-Aid and do a bit of research. And bring along an open mind and some common sense. But we seem to have great number of people here that are. lol -------------------------------------------------------- I"m not drinking your koolaid either. THat's common sense. Again, they need to prove it in the lab. And it must be able to be duplicated. -------------------------------------------------------- Methane- derived hydrocarbons produced under upper-mantle conditions
Already posted two examples. Production of higher molecular weight hydrocarbons from methane
CONVERSION OF METHANE TO GASOLINE-RANGE HYDROCARBONS
What it comes down to is that methane CAN be created from organic matter, such as decaying vegetation and animal carcasses. HOWEVER, methane can ALSO be formed due to natural processes found on other worlds, so that would mean that it can ALSO happen on this one. Various natural processes can and do convert simple methane, the building block of all other hydrocarbons, into higher forms. Hydrocarbon Rain Swells Titan's Lakes
I see some possible problems here. First of all, I can only get the general idea. I bet you can't do much better. And general ideas are not good ideas. They can be wrong and I/we would not know it. 2nd, page 1 paragraph 1, is says gasoline boiling temps, not gasoline. 3rd and most importantly, are these provable natural processes or are they strictly lab processes? I only read the first page. If I don't understand it, there's not much point in reading it all. About the only way to get to the truth is to ask a scientist (one without an agenda one way or the other). And I don't know any chemists or geologists or astronomers. -------------------------------------------------------- From the link; In the process described, the final hydrocarbon mixture is largely in the gasoline (C4-C10) boiling range . In other words, they produced hydrocarbons which boiled in the temperature range gasoline would boil at. Hence, they produced gasoline or gasoline like hydrocarbons. BTW, boiling is how they extract the various products from crude oil... What is it about the fact that various types of hydrocarbons are in abundance on other worlds that doesn't register with you? Are you saying that there had to have been dinosaurs there? If that was the case, why not say "we produced gasoline"? And I reiterate, again(!), that nothing has been written on whether this is a natural process or a lab process. You can turn gold into lead, in the lab. -------------------------------------------------------- It registers just fine. But hydrocarbons do not equal oil. -------------------------------------------------------- If that was the case, why not say "we produced gasoline"? Because it is a scientific paper, not a magazine article. They were being precise. And I reiterate, again(!), that nothing has been written on whether this is a natural process or a lab process. I've already posted an article for you where "upper mantle conditions" ie. conditions such as those which exist below the earth's crust were used to form heavier hydrocarbons such as ethane, propane and butane, from methane. It was back in post 107. See Mantle (geology) for a further explanation of the earth's mantle layers. You can turn gold into lead, in the lab. You can even turn lead into gold using a reactor. Or so I've read. Oil is nothing more than a soup of various types of hydrocarbons. Oil IS hydrocarbons. Anton Kolesnikov1,2, Vladimir G. Kutcherov2,3 & Alexander F. Goncharov1 Top of page There is widespread evidence that petroleum originates from biological processes1, 2, 3. Whether hydrocarbons can also be produced from abiogenic precursor molecules under the high-pressure, high-temperature conditions characteristic of the upper mantle remains an open question. It has been proposed that hydrocarbons generated in the upper mantle could be transported through deep faults to shallower regions in the Earth's crust, and contribute to petroleum reserves4, 5. Here we use in situ Raman spectroscopy in laser-heated diamond anvil cells to monitor the chemical reactivity of methane and ethane under upper-mantle conditions. We show that when methane is exposed to pressures higher than 2 GPa, and to temperatures in the range of 1,000–1,500 K, it partially reacts to form saturated hydrocarbons containing 2–4 carbons (ethane, propane and butane) and molecular hydrogen and graphite. Conversely, exposure of ethane to similar conditions results in the production of methane, suggesting that the synthesis of saturated hydrocarbons is reversible. Our results support the suggestion that hydrocarbons heavier than methane can be produced by abiogenic processes in the upper mantle. I'm not trying to be stubborn just for the sake of being stubborn. But there is nothing in that article that supports abiotic oil. In fact, it explicitly supports the opposite, and calls abiotic oil a "open question", as well as uses words "proposed", and "could be". It also possibly explains how there is methane in planets and comets etc, where there was no life. Don't get me wrong. I hope abiotic oil is true. But hope doesn't get the job done. -------------------------------------------------------- Oh, that's not covered in his "Talking Points Manual" so he's not allowed to admit to their existence despite multiple probes confirming it. If the Peak Oil disinfo artists admitted that hydrocarbons exist in abundance in the outer Solar System then they have to explain how the Great Dinosaur Migration to Titan took place. Those pesky dinosaurs are everywhere! They're as bad as cockroaches or internet shills. I'd have to look it up, but I don't think it's reversible. Or maybe it wasn't reversible when I was taught this. Things have changed since then. -------------------------------------------------------- I just released a huge cloud of methane, in your general direction. Sup, psycho? -------------------------------------------------------- Did you miss this part? Our results support the suggestion that hydrocarbons heavier than methane can be produced by abiogenic processes in the upper mantle. From UNIVERSITY OF BRISTOL SCHOOL OF CHEMISTRY Yep, and they'd have to explain how dinosaur poop was ejected so forcefully they created comets which turned into orbiting tarballs... Our results support the suggestion that hydrocarbons heavier than methane can be produced by abiogenic processes in the upper mantle. Well, uh, gee, uh, no. He just ignored it as one of them that "Inconvenient Truths". Algore would appreciate the tactic in a global sense. Twenty-Five Ways To Suppress Truth: The Rules of Disinformation 9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect. Yep, and they'd have to explain how dinosaur poop was ejected so forcefully they created comets which turned into orbiting tarballs... Them thar deenosors is amazin' critters. They're everywhere - and they have spaceships too.
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Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
#92. To: PSUSA2 (#91)
#93. To: PSUSA2 (#80)
Tell me if other planets methane and other hydrocarbons = oil
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#94. To: FormerLurker (#93)
Oil is a hydrocarbon. Methane is a precursor to oil.
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
#95. To: PSUSA2, Original_Intent (#94)
Methane is a precursor to oil? Really? If you want to play chemist, you might want to do some basic research first. THen. maybe you can fake it more convincingly. THen you might be able to convince others, if they are gullible.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#96. To: PSUSA2 (#94)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#97. To: FormerLurker (#95)
Comets are made of hydrocarbons, including tar. Dinosaurs did not hatch comets, nor did they pee oil deep into the earth for that matter.
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
#98. To: FormerLurker (#96)
Did you even know that crude oil is just a blend of many different hydrocarbons?
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
#99. To: PSUSA2, Original_Intent (#95)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#100. To: PSUSA2 (#97)
But comets have plate tectonics?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#101. To: PSUSA2 (#98)
So all you need is a blender?
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#102. To: FormerLurker (#100)
WTF has plate tectonics have to do with hydrocarbons?
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
#103. To: PSUSA2 (#97)
I'll believe it when the abiotic "theory" is proven in the labs and is no longer this silly "well, if X happens with Y and Z, along with _____________ and
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#104. To: PSUSA2 (#102)
I am not a chemist. I am not a geologist. I am not an astronomer.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#105. To: All (#102)
I am not a chemist. I am not a geologist. I am not an astronomer.
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
#106. To: FormerLurker (#104)
Then perhaps you should stop swallowing the Kool-Aid and do a bit of research. And bring along an open mind and some common sense.
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
#107. To: PSUSA2 (#102)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#108. To: PSUSA2 (#106)
Again, they need to prove it in the lab. And it must be able to be duplicated.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#109. To: PSUSA2 (#106)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#110. To: PSUSA2 (#106)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#111. To: PSUSA2 (#106)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#112. To: PSUSA2, Original_Intent, All (#106)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#113. To: FormerLurker (#110)
CONVERSION OF METHANE TO GASOLINE-RANGE HYDROCARBONS
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
#114. To: PSUSA2 (#113)
(Edited)
2nd, page 1 paragraph 1, is says gasoline boiling temps, not gasoline.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#115. To: PSUSA2 (#113)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#116. To: FormerLurker (#114)
In other words, they produced hydrocarbons which boiled in the temperature range gasoline would boil at. Hence, they produced gasoline or gasoline like hydrocarbons.
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
#117. To: FormerLurker (#115)
What is it about the fact that various types of hydrocarbons are in abundance on other worlds that doesn't register with you?
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
#118. To: PSUSA2 (#116)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#119. To: PSUSA2 (#116)
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#120. To: PSUSA2 (#117)
But hydrocarbons do not equal oil.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#121. To: FormerLurker (#118)
Methane-derived hydrocarbons produced under upper-mantle conditions
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
#122. To: FormerLurker, BSUSATOO, PUSUSATOO, PSUSA2, wudidiz, lead.and.lag, all (#115)
(Edited)
What is it about the fact that various types of hydrocarbons are in abundance on other worlds that doesn't register with you?
#123. To: FormerLurker (#119)
You can even turn lead into gold using a reactor. Or so I've read.
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
#124. To: Original_Intent (#122)
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
#125. To: PSUSA2 (#121)
I'm not trying to be stubborn just for the sake of being stubborn. But there is nothing in that article that supports abiotic oil. In fact, it explicitly supports the opposite, and calls abiotic oil a "open question", as well as uses words "proposed", and "could be".
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#126. To: PSUSA2 (#123)
I'd have to look it up, but I don't think it's reversible. Or maybe it wasn't reversible when I was taught this. Things have changed since then.
In 1980, Glenn Seaborg was successful in transmuting minute quantities lead to gold, possibly via bismuth. In 1972, Russian scientists found that the lead shielding of an experimental nuclear reactor near Lake Baikal in Siberia had unexpectedly turned to gold!
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#127. To: PSUSA2 (#124)
#128. To: Original_Intent, PSUSA2 (#122)
If the Peak Oil disinfo artists admitted that hydrocarbons exist in abundance in the outer Solar System then they have to explain how the Great Dinosaur Migration to Titan took place.
"The real deal is this: the ‘royalty’ controlling the court, the ones with the power, the ones with the ability to make a difference, with the ability to change our course, the ones who will live in infamy if we pass the tipping points, are the captains of industry, CEOs in fossil fuel companies such as EXXON/Mobil, automobile manufacturers, utilities, all of the leaders who have placed short-term profit above the fate of the planet and the well-being of our children." - James Hansen
#129. To: FormerLurker (#125)
Did you miss this part?
#130. To: FormerLurker, BSUSATOO, PUSUSATOO, PSUSA2, wudidiz, lead.and.lag, all (#128)
If the Peak Oil disinfo artists admitted that hydrocarbons exist in abundance in the outer Solar System then they have to explain how the Great Dinosaur Migration to Titan took place.
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