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Title: Obama: US soldier’s reported shooting rampage in Afghanistan ‘tragic and shocking’
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URL Source: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/ ... FmLTZjMDA3NWI3MTcxMwRwb3MDMQRz
Published: Mar 11, 2012
Author: Olivier Knox | The Ticket
Post Date: 2012-03-11 20:55:52 by Tatarewicz
Keywords: None
Views: 1177
Comments: 109
President Barack Obama on Sunday condemned the alleged slaughter of 16 Afghan civilians by an American soldier as "tragic and shocking" and assured Afghan President Hamid Karzai by telephone that the United States will "hold fully accountable anyone responsible" as the bloody incident plunged already deteriorating ties into a fresh crisis. Obama called Karzai, who denounced the reported shooting rampage as an unforgivable "assassination," to make clear "his Administration's commitment to establish the facts as quickly as possible and to hold fully accountable anyone responsible," the White House said in a statement. Obama expressed "his shock and sadness" to Karzai at the incident, which news reports said left mostly women and children among the dead, and "reaffirmed our deep respect for the Afghan people and the bonds between our two countries," the White House said. Ahead of the call, Obama received a briefing on the incident from top aides including National Security Adviser Tom Donilon, Deputy National Security Advisor Denis McDonough, and Special Assistant to the President for Afghanistan and Pakistan Doug Lute, according to National Security Council deputy spokeswoman Caitlin Hayden. Obama also issued a public statement saying he was "deeply saddened" by the reports and throwing his full support behind promises from Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and General John Allen, who commands NATO-led forces in Afghanistan, for a full investigation. Allen said in a statement that the US service member alleged to have carried out the attack was in custody. The Associated Press reported that the suspect was from Fort Lewis, Wash. "This incident is tragic and shocking, and does not represent the exceptional character of our military and the respect that the United States has for the people of Afghanistan. I fully support Secretary Panetta's and General Allen's commitment to get the facts as quickly as possible and to hold accountable anyone responsible," Obama said. The shooting rampage immediately reignited a debate over whether to hasten the US troop withdrawal from Afghanistan, where American-led forces are scheduled to hand over security to their hosts by the end of 2014. A new ABC News/Washington Post poll found US public sentiment against the war at near-record highs. "I offer my condolences to the families and loved ones of those who lost their lives, and to the people of Afghanistan, who have endured too much violence and suffering," said the president. The tragedy came just days after Obama and Karzai spoke by video conference and agreed that tensions had "calmed" since the burning of Muslim holy books on a US base. That incident had sparked violent protests in Afghanistan and the killing of six US service members at the hands of their Afghan counterparts. It also led Obama to apologize for the desecration of the Qurans in an attempt to quiet clashes that he said endangered US military and civilian personnel. Republican presidential candidates, notably Newt Gingrich, condemned the apology. Panetta said in a statement that he had spoken to Karzai to offer "my deepest condolences" and that "a full investigation is already underway." "I gave President Karzai my assurances that we will bring those responsible to justice. We will spare no effort in getting the facts as quickly as possible, and we will hold any perpetrator who is responsible for this violence fully accountable under the law," said the defense secretary. "I condemn such violence and am shocked and saddened that a U.S. service member is alleged to be involved, clearly acting outside his chain of command," Panetta said. Panetta said the United States remained "steadfast in our resolve to work hand in hand with our Afghan partners." "I am fully committed to ensuring that our cooperation continues. It is essential to forging a more peaceful future for the citizens of both our nations," he added. Allen, who heads the International Security Assistance Force (ISAF), offered his "profound regret and deepest condolences" and promised "a rapid and thorough investigation" as well as medical care for those injured in the shooting. "We will maintain custody of the U.S. service member alleged to have perpetrated this attack. And we will cooperate fully with local Afghan authorities as we ascertain all the facts," Allen said in a statement. "This deeply appalling incident in no way represents the values of ISAF and coalition troops or the abiding respect we feel for the Afghan people. Nor does it impugn or diminish the spirit of cooperation and partnership we have worked so hard to foster with the Afghan National Security Forces," Allen said. At a press conference last week, Obama had said that "the situation with the Quran burning concerns me. I think that it is an indication of the challenges in that environment, and it's an indication that now is the time for us to transition." He did not, however, say he would change his withdrawal timetable. But calls to speed up the US draw-down could come from Afghanistan as well as from the American public, which has deeply soured on the conflict. A narrow majority, 54 percent, of respondents in a new ABC News / Washington post poll say US troops should withdraw on time whether or not Afghan forces are self-sufficient. And the survey -- which was conducted on Saturday, before the reported killing spree — found that 60 percent of Americans say the war has not been worth fighting. That's just four points shy of the record 64 percent who said the same thing one year ago. Poster Comment: Just an illustration of the tremendous tensions US grunts are undergoing in a country where they serve no American purpose and are totally unwanted. The incident may be "tragic and shocking...deeply appalling" but no more so than US presidents and members of Congress sending troops there to fight Israel's Afghan enemies just so these politicians could be assured of Jew money, manpower, media and voter support at election time. The bizarre situation in which US and other NATO troops find themselves in is well illustrated in Yahoo's "front page" photo of an (almost funny) sandbagged fortification with make-shift plywood paneling to deflect grenades: http://news.yahoo.com/
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#1. To: Tatarewicz (#0)
End it. Today. The day will never come as long as it's always "tomorrow," and we can't stay there forever.
Afghan Genocide continues: More than 50 civilians martyred by American terrorists The so called American peace keepers have once again quenched their thirst with the blood of innocent Afghan civilians in Kandahar province. According to recent reports arriving from the area, the American invaders backed by their puppets (ANA) left their base last night (11/03/2012) and raided several homes of locals, located near their base in Balambi village of Panjwaee district. Witnesses from the scene say that during the raids, the American terrorists and their puppets shot the household members at point blank range and so far 50 bodies have been found and recovered by the villagers among which, 11 are from the home of Muhammad Wazir including himself. The unsuspecting innocent victims have been sprayed with hundreds of bullets and have been cold-bloodedly martyred.
The least we can do is put the man the horrible grunt was working for up, on war charges???? Right? Was this horrible monster over there on his own, free lancing????? Drag his sorry ass before the world, show them what a real monster looks like. Maybe Obama can wangle another "peace prize" out of this? Americans in their self righteous indignation will scorn this monster. We cannot have wars going on being waged privately. Shoot a hundred grunts over there, teach them a lesson, yes sir.
Bullshit. It isn't the grunts that deserve to be shot and taught "a lesson". It is the damned Zionist elites who work behind the scenes that should be shot. The actions of this American soldier is "tragic and shocking", but not for what he did. It is what we allowed to be created that caused the soldier to engage in a "tragic and shocking" act. How many more soldiers are we going to allow to go nuts over in that God forsaken Middle East before we realize what it is doing to our young? Wake up America and rid our country of the slimy evildoing manipulators and all those who do their bidding, i.e., our POTUS, his administration and every last member of Congress, save perhaps Ron Paul.
What?????? You trying to shift the blame for this off on people like Obama, who were not even there? How soon we forget, from Vietnam the "body count" each day. Drag in bodies, get a ration of beer, maybe even a promotion to PFC. All in civilian clothes??? Dont let that bother you. They are the enemy. Americans are short on memory and long at pointing fingers at others.
Yes, they are. However, from the late 50s and early 60s, the evil have been teaching our young every thing they can to make it possible for the evildoers to win at their dirty games. What we see now is a result of the permeation of our institutes of learning. I hate to leave such vermin for my kids, your kids, and all their kids to clean up, but we have let it go too far to do it ourselves. Sad commentary on how little we took care of how much was left us!
Yes. Our young men are being sent into impossible situations - AND UNNESSARY situations. The US Israel Axis Of Evil has to cease. Government is in every aspect of our lives. A few days ago I was admitted to the hospital for observation. The charge nurse wheeled in a monster puter and started asking questions. I was floored by this one...Do you engage regularly in sex???? I thot she was kidding and gave no answer, then she lowered the monitor into view to show me it was a valid question that required an answer. Then she told me to read the next question. It was, "do you engage regularly in sex with a male or a female". Americans are stupid in not admitting they are brain washed and programmed.
And Brave Women.
Unfortunately, the only way to learn is to admit your mistakes and learn from them. In this case, the frailties of human nature will only be understood by future generations that didn't bring the mess upon themselves.
Our wreched health care system. You need to be observed by JT. Huh? After war mongering, health care has become the most expensive effort expended by this country. The long lines of "professionals" milking the system increases daily and all of them are running people thru the grinder extracting every cent possible. Cardiologists now average a half million a year. They have found the ultimate cash cow.
Asking an 80 year olde man about his sex life, did not seem relevant to me.
OK C, I am now asleep.
i understand your anger at those who sent the soldiers to war to begin with, although these troops volunteered, they were not forced to enlist or drafted. so, at what point does one become responsible for his own actions? there's no defense of wanton violence and murders like this, imo. the truth is, there are monstrous sociopaths who just enjoy killing.
At what point did this soldier become a monstrous sociopath who just enjoys killing? Did he just wake up and went and killed these people, or did something set him off?
Huh? I tend to suspect that by definition those who are brainwashed and programmed are unaware of the fact. Oh, many are but the way the perception management system is executed is that unless you are aware that it is there you are unlikely to notice that reality. At what point did this soldier become a monstrous sociopath who just enjoys killing? Did he just wake up and went and killed these people, or did something set him off? As I commented on the other thread the way anti-depressants are being handed out promiscuously in the combat areas I tend to suspect this guy was on some sort of Psych Drug. Notice that he turned himself in. A sociopath would not do that but someone who had suddenly come to their senses would. who knows, but isn't it possible that it was a contributing factor to his enlisting in the first place?
what about the sociopaths who threw the puppy off the cliff? what set them off? surely, you must realize that people capable of doing such a thing are sadistic beings. it wasn't the military that made them that way.
yes, it could have been drug induced. i disagree that a sociopath wouldn't turn himself in. what choice did he have? he got caught or would have been.
except we really don't what gender the children were. No tragedy that the men died I guess. changing the puppet does not change the play.
Observation? What on Earth for?
God is always good!
Even though the word alleged is used four times in this article, still people reflexively want to believe it happened, that it must be true because the media reported it about the Military. Who really cares if thousands of people died and suffered over hellish lies like "Nurse Nayirah" charged against Iraqi soldiers? Just shrug it off and feel good that no annoying questions got in the way of "humanity's" exhibits of righteous indignation.
------- "They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
Lie. Which is most likely what a true sociopath would do. Despite the outer gloss of normal they are anything but. You're thinking like a normal person and you can't do that in analyzing the behavior of someone who is not sane. Christine... Kill or be killed in wartime presents situations that are indeed unfathomable to people that have not been there. Explaining these situations are a thankless, pointless task, an impossible task as you see here. I would be remiss if I did not at least raise the voice of caution in making decisions of mind when one has never been there. Grown men do cry Christine. Those I witnessed to in less stressful situations than this young man, had but ONE DESIRE, they just wanted to go home, to have the nightmare end. I never met a man in the military, volunteer or draftee, that wanted to kill anyone. Place yourself at Gettysburg, you are in Picketts brigade, General Lee orders a frontal attack, Pickett questions the order. Lee tells him to mount a suicidal attack where thousands will die in twenty minutes. What do you do???? What would you have done???
"I don't know what I would have done." Those were my dad's words. He was describing to me the reprisals that the German army took after partizan butchered German prisoners. In response and under orders the army went into a town, rounded up the folks separating the men from the women, and shot the requisite number of males against a wall. My father described the wailing of the women. I saw the terror of it in his eyes. He wondered aloud what he would have done if he had been ordered on a firing squad. But he never got selected for that sort of duty. He told me, "They always knew which boys to pick for those jobs."
Having stood where Lee and his Generals stood, I often wondered what I would have done, being an expendable human being does make one think. Pickett knew it was wrong, he said so, the others were yes men and toadies that said nothing. Without question 3000 men stood up and walked to their death or wounding. Mind you, these were invaders, unwanted by the locals.
Too bad it has taken so much posting for others to understand your message on the military. I want to add to your remarks the following: From the eyes of a child until today, I have been around military, not just family members, but entire neighborhoods/communities. Wars, or conflicts, or whatever our criminal elected officials have called the latest "theater", have never been simple or easy to explain away. However, of all those men I have seen return from conflict, those returning now are the worst affected since WWII and, in someways, affected to a degree not previously seen. It matters not they went voluntarily or involuntarily, they didn't go for the prime purpose of killing other homosapiens. Matter of fact, many had the opinion that our modern day government was only interested in peace and would do everything possible to avoid war, including sending our troops to other countries for "policing". Perhaps that is difficult for those participating here to understand and perhaps you are so intelligent that you have never made a mistake choosing a job, picking friends, or in placing one foot before the other. However, I remember being a teenager and thinking I knew it all, that my parents were ignorant of what it took to be an adult, and that I had answers never before considered by another human being. I eventually discovered how wrong I was in that assumption, but was I unique? Not according to those I have known during my lifetime. It is easy for one to judge ... sitting in front of a computer monitor, chatting with unknown faces. It is informative when one is up close and personal. On the other hand, some people never quite see the full picture, that we share this earth with the diversity given us by God and hoped by HIM to be appreciated, respected and enjoyed. I marvel at each man or woman I see return from the hell holes we send them while they serve in the military. I also spend time visiting with them to try and determine just what they have gone through and what they have been told to do by their leaders and our criminal politicians. As a result, I pray for each one of them every day, no matter where or who they are or aren't. I never forget that those young men and women had NO part in their assignment or how to accomplish it. On the other hand, I also NEVER forget that every man and woman living and working in the U.S. today have a part in where our military are sent and what they are asked to do. Too many today understand perfectly what it takes them to get through each day, but have no clue as to what is expected of those we are told go to theater to protect us. Perhaps to understand better you could spend some time asking questions of those "volunteers" who serve. Try to get the answers for yourselves and not continually spend time killing the messenger here. I now pray for all of us, military and non-military, that we find a medium ground from which to work in concert to save this country. If not found, we won't survive, for the evildoers have other plans for us and our's.
Slit his throat? Glad you asked that. Generals TRUST NO ONE, not even their toadies. They are always surrounded by bodyguards. See if you recall this. Remember Gen. Norman Swartzkoff back at the very outset of this Middle east horror? If you do, you might recall a front page photo of Norman deplaning from his personal jet somewhere in theater. Hero General is going to shape up Middle East pronto. So what was odd about this excellent photo shoot for military propaganda????? The half dozen personal bodyguards were not regular army.
Nationalism caused Lee's men to move forward, while it's globalism that moves today's military. The times have indeed changed, for the worse.
If one looks at the record, hundreds of men were shot by both North and South for cowardice. In fact the Yankees placed men behind the line of charge to shoot any man going in the wrong direction. Its all there in the history books.
Begin with Obama and his similar slaughter of civilians with drone attacks.....set the example from the top down! " If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11 "Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne
Few care, read or pay attention to history, hence this country of uninformed (or ignorant) citizens who leave it to others for too many of the answers ... or trust their elected representatives to do what is best. What a mess we are in.
I don't know what the chimping is all about: the soldier did exactly what the zionist-jews sent him over there to do....I'm waiting to see if he'll be awarded the IDF Medal of Valor. I wonder if endless delegations of Israeli's will demand his release just like they do for Jonathan Pollard??
#2. To: All (#0)
Taliban give a somewhat different account (on the UnjustMedia.com site):
#3. To: randge (#1)
President Barack Obama on Sunday condemned the alleged slaughter of 16 Afghan civilians by an American soldier as "tragic and shocking"
#4. To: Cynicom (#3)
Shoot a hundred grunts over there, teach them a lesson, yes sir.
#5. To: Phant2000 (#4)
#6. To: Cynicom (#5)
Americans are short on memory and long at pointing fingers at others.
#7. To: Phant2000 (#4)
Bullshit. It isn't the grunts that deserve to be shot and taught "a lesson". It is the damned Zionist elites who work behind the sce
"Satan / Cheney in "08" 
#8. To: Phant2000 (#6)
#9. To: All (#7)
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#10. To: Cynicom (#8)
Americans are stupid in not admitting they are brain washed and programmed.
#11. To: Cynicom (#8)
A few days ago I was admitted to the hospital for observation.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#12. To: Cynicom (#8)
Americans are stupid in not admitting they are brain washed and programmed.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#13. To: tom007 (#11)
#14. To: tom007 (#12)
Huh?
#15. To: Cynicom (#14)
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#16. To: Cynicom (#5)
#17. To: christine (#16)
so, at what point does one become responsible for his own actions? imo. the truth is, there are monstrous sociopaths who just enjoy killing.
#18. To: tom007, Cynicom (#12)
Americans are stupid in not admitting they are brain washed and programmed.
#19. To: ambi, christine, Cynicom (#17)
so, at what point does one become responsible for his own actions? imo. the truth is, there are monstrous sociopaths who just enjoy killing.
#20. To: ambi (#17)
#21. To: ambi (#17)
#22. To: Original_Intent (#19)
#23. To: Tatarewicz (#0)
which news reports said left mostly women and children among the dead,
#24. To: Cynicom (#8)
#25. To: Tatarewicz, All (#0)
#26. To: christine (#22)
i disagree that a sociopath wouldn't turn himself in. what choice did he have?
#27. To: christine (#16)
i understand your anger at those who sent the soldiers to war to begin with, although these troops volunteered, they were not forced to enlist or drafted. so, at what point does one become responsible for his own actions? there's no defense of wanton violence and murders like this, imo. the truth is, there are monstrous sociopaths who just enjoy killing.
#28. To: Cynicom (#27)
(Edited)
What would you have done???
#29. To: randge (#28)
"I don't know what I would have done."
#30. To: Cynicom, christine (#27)
(Edited)
I never met a man in the military, volunteer or draftee, that wanted to kill anyone.
#31. To: Cynicom (#27)
General Lee orders a frontal attack, Pickett questions the order. Lee tells him to mount a suicidal attack where thousands will die in twenty minutes.
"Satan / Cheney in "08"
#32. To: tom007 (#31)
Slit his throat?
#33. To: All (#29)
#34. To: Jethro Tull, christine, Phant2000, randge (#33)
Nationalism caused Lee's men to move forward,
#35. To: Tatarewicz (#0)
we will hold any perpetrator who is responsible for this violence fully accountable under the law," said the defense secretary.
#36. To: Cynicom, Jethro Tull, christine, randge (#34)
Its all there in the history books.
#37. To: Tatarewicz, *The hook-nosed Jew* (#0)
-Alex Kurtagic
#38. To: Phant2000 (#30)
I was walking up to an office door some time back, past a guy who was standing there. He flinched & said 'DONT SNEAK UP ON ME LIKE THAT!' & then apologetically explained he had just got back from iraq. Truly unhinged as a result of his experience.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
#39. To: Cynicom, 4um (#34)
Yes,
see the actions of the USSR in the "Great War." I read about such things, I
watch them on some of the few decent TV channels left, but that said, I think
we're going astray here. What this soldier did can't be confused with anything
but cold blooded murder. I know you aren't defending it, and I also believe
you're intentionally being prodded, so I suggest we all take a deep breath and
settle down. Most on 4um are on the same side of the political spectrum. Most
see what happened here as more an aberration than an everyday occurrence. No one
condones it and no one believes we should have a military presence in these god
forsaken nations. I get the chills thinking we're one comment or headline away
from another split. Let's agree to not let that happen given our commonality on
most issues. Its all there in the history books.
#40. To: Cynicom (#3)
We cannot have wars going on being waged privately. Shoot a hundred grunts over there, teach them a lesson, yes sir. You post runneth over with great sarcasm ;-) Americans in their self righteous indignation will scorn this monster.
-Alex Kurtagic
#41. To: Phant2000 (#30) (Edited)
That's right. Our Military is not the property of any President or Congress either. It is our Military. Come home. This allegation has morphed into supposed witnesses now claiming a group of drunken and laughing soldiers did this and burned the bodies. Does it even matter to anyone here if it isn't true? The objective is reprisals against our troops. Doesn't have to be true to get them killed and wounded and who would care? It's their own fault for not deserting is how it would be brushed off. Edited for spelling. I also NEVER forget that every man and woman living and working in the U.S. today have a part in where our military are sent and what they are asked to do.
Try to get the answers for yourselves and not continually spend time killing the messenger here.
-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
#42. To: GreyLmist (#41)
I see you do well at reading between the lines. Because it does matter to me to get the truth behind any allegation, I called a friend at Camp Pendleton and he read part of an official report. So for now, and until told different, I accept that "official report", although there may well be some changes to even that as time goes on. This allegation has morphed into supposed witnesses now claiming a group of drunken and laughing soldiers did this and burned the bodies. Does it even matter to anyone here if it isn't true? The objective is reprisals against our troops. Doesn't have to be true to get them killed and wounded and who would care? It's their own fault for not deserting is how it would be brushed off.
#43. To: Jethro Tull (#39)
Bump that. I get the chills thinking we're one comment or headline away from another split. Let's agree to not let that happen given our commonality on most issues.
#44. To: Phant2000 (#42)
Undoubtedly they made some report about it, since there are claims in the Media by supposed witnesses -- who apparently stood by and watched, even though it was said to be so dark that night vision equipment was taken along on the alleged rampage. Can you ask your friend at Camp Pendleton how America can have a Military that isn't sent out of our country? Can we even have a Military at all anymore to protect us?
-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
#45. To: Phant2000 (#42)
Locals are saying that the incidents took place at locations so far apart that they do not believe that just one soldier could have done all the killings. Pentagon is going with the one man story. We will soon see. Or not. Eleven of the 12 civilians killed in Balandi were from the same family. The remaining victim was a neighbor. From Balandi, the gunman walked roughly one mile to the village of Alkozai, which was only about 500 meters from the American military base. There the gunman killed four people in one house and then moved to Zahir's house, where he shot his father in the leg. U.S. officials said initial reports indicated that the soldier returned to his base after the shootings and turned himself in. Some Afghan officials and local villagers expressed doubt that a single U.S. soldier could have carried out all the killings and burned the bodies afterward. "It is not possible for only one American soldier to come out of his base, kill a number of people far away, burn the bodies, go to another house and kill civilians there, then walk at least 2 kilometers and enter another house, kill civilians and burn them," said Abdul Rahim Ayubi, a lawmaker from Kandahar province who visited the area on Monday. Some villagers also told officials there were multiple soldiers and heard shooting from different directions. But many others said they only saw a single soldier. Lt. Col. Jimmie Cummings, another spokesman for the coalition, insisted there was only one gunman. "There's no indication that there was more than one shooter," he said. Agha Lalia, member of the Kandahar provincial council who is from Panjwai district, said he talked to two people who were injured in the shooting at a hospital at Kandahar Air Field, where they are being treated by coalition medical personnel. Both said they only saw one soldier shooting. Read more: democratherald.com/news/w...e5221e.html#ixzz1ov0OptS2 The Afghan Defense Ministry said the gunman left the base in Panjwai district and walked about one mile (1,800 meters) to Balandi village. Villagers described how they cowered in fear around 3 a.m. as gunshots rang out and the soldier roamed from house to house, firing on those inside. They said he entered three homes in all and set fire to some of the bodies after he killed them.
#46. To: GreyLmist (#44)
My friend, along with my nephew, cousins, etc. (all military), would tell you they don't want to be in that God forsaken place and prefer to be right here guarding our borders. We, all of them, nor anyone on this forum are in their chain of command, other than we, all of them, and everyone on this forum putting the pressure on the freaks in D.C. to get them home NOW. Pressure can be in the form of votes, but everyone here knows what will work faster. Can you ask your friend at Camp Pendleton how America can have a Military that isn't sent out of our country?
#47. To: randge (#45)
Having researched the allegations of "locals" in Afghanistan as to many other incidents, I'll believe what my friend at Pendleton gave as part of the "report". Strange how we manage to find cultures to protect around the world that could care less about being truthful. Locals are saying that ...
#48. To: Phant2000 (#46)
Maybe I'm out of the loop on that. What will work faster? putting the pressure on the freaks in D.C. to get them home NOW. Pressure can be in the form of votes, but everyone here knows what will work faster.
-------
"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
#49. To: Cynicom (#27)
What do you do???? What would you have done??? of course, i would do whatever i was told to do in that situation when it's kill or be killed, but, Cyni, this man was not ordered to do this. his life was not in danger. he went to the homes of innocent civilians and killed entire families in their sleep. it was not a defensive action. it was an offensive action. i suppose we could argue til the cows come home about what made him capable of doing such a thing, but my belief is that he was a deeply disturbed individual going into the military. Place yourself at Gettysburg, you are in Picketts brigade, General Lee orders a frontal attack, Pickett questions the order. Lee tells him to mount a suicidal attack where thousands will die in twenty minutes.
#50. To: GreyLmist, Phant2000 (#48)
Maybe I'm out of the loop on that. What will work faster? I believe the order goes "Soap Box", "Ballot Box, "_______ Box". putting the pressure on the freaks in D.C. to get them home NOW. Pressure can be in the form of votes, but everyone here knows what will work faster.
#51. To: Jethro Tull (#39)
well said.
#52. To: christine, Cynicom (#49)
Yeah, this is not "I was only following orders." There is no question of self-preservation, nor is this a gut wrenching choice between committing the lesser of two evils. This is a crime, pure and simple. There is just no getting around that. this man was not ordered to do this. his life was not in danger
#53. To: GreyLmist, Phant2000 (#41)
well, perhaps i'm jaded after the Pat Tillman event among others. This allegation has morphed into supposed witnesses now claiming a group of drunken and laughing soldiers did this and burned the bodies. Does it even matter to anyone here if it isn't true? The objective is reprisals against our troops. Doesn't have to be true to get them killed and wounded and who would care? It's their own fault for not deserting is how it would be brushed off.
#54. To: christine, Jethro Tull, Phant2000, randge, Esso (#49)
That we will never know. Since Vietnam, the military has taken whatever they can get. With that in mind, it makes Americans happy because their sons and grandsons are NOT subjected to military duty. Tell you a story... In opening weeks of Korean thing, I VOLUNTEERED to kill people or get killed. Just what the government wanted. There were 713 of us that processed that day, 700 army 13 0f us air force. On that day I saw a doctor for about 30 seconds as I walked by him, he checked my heart. He did not even initial my acceptance, a flunkie enlisted man sitting there did it for him. Next I passed by the desk of a shrink who asked this to see if I was mentally stable, his question, "Can you drive a truck". To which I replied "no". He signed and I was in. All 713 of us passed that day Christine, every man was IN. Fast forward four years, now it is my DISCHARGE physical. There are 18 of us there all day, with one doctor. At the end he hands every one their papers except me and asks me to stay because he wants to talk with me. I was sure I had terminal beri beri or some such from the damned jungles. I sat in front of his desk and he asked me this..."HOW IN HELL DID YOU EVER GET IN THE MILITARY"... but my belief is that he was a deeply disturbed individual going into the military.
#55. To: GreyLmist (#48)
An army of revolutionists, each packing a Smith & Wesson! hehehehe What will work faster?
#56. To: christine (#53)
I don't know what happened there. I'm not under the impression that our Military never does anything wrong. The internet, though, seems to be just a quicker way to get people condemned to death without a trial or even any questions in their case. well, perhaps i'm jaded after the Pat Tillman event among others.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
#57. To: Original_Intent (#50)
Perfectly stated, but omitting "pine". I believe the order goes "Soap Box", "Ballot Box, "_______ Box".
#58. To: Phant2000 (#55)
I have never owned a gun.
#59. To: Phant2000, Original_Intent (#55)
I was hoping there was a different way.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
#60. To: Cynicom (#54)
what did he mean by that, Cyni? "HOW IN HELL DID YOU EVER GET IN THE MILITARY"
#61. To: Phant2000 (#57)
Perfectly stated, but omitting "pine". Oooh! A fourth box. ;-) I believe the order goes "Soap Box", "Ballot Box, "_______ Box".
#62. To: GreyLmist, Phant2000 (#59)
Me too. Time will tell. There is change in the wind, but we'll have to see how hard it blows. I was hoping there was a different way.
#63. To: Phant2000, GreyLmist (#55)
An army of revolutionists, each packing a Smith & Wesson! hehehehe Personally, I am follower of Brother Colt. What will work faster?
"God made some men big, and some men small Samuel Colt made them all equal." ~ Unk.
#64. To: Cynicom (#58)
Me, either, but I'm up to knowing HOW to use one. I have never owned a gun.
#65. To: christine, Phant2000, Jethro Tull, randge (#60)
Christine... As a child I had a badly fractured/shattered left leg. It was held together with screws and wire. The muscle mass was less than half the right leg. The foot wore a size 5 vs a size 8 for the right. the leg was 3/4 inch shorter and I walked with a profound limp. Twelve hours naked for a physical and not one person asked about it. They wanted volunteers, they had a quota. The discharge doctor was furious. In parting he shook my hand and said this "it is too late now, you did more than your share, and no one gives a damn"...
#66. To: Cynicom (#65)
The story of my life. "it is too late now, you did more than your share, and no one gives a damn"...
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)
#67. To: Esso (#66)
Years later I wrote to the VA with a question about life insurance. Their reply from memory... "We have no record of any such person, unless you can prove you served on active duty within the military, there is nothing we can do for you." Some people do not understand that grunts are the lowest form of sub humans employed by the military when killing is required.
#68. To: Cynicom (#67)
From the government's point of view, everybody & everything is "expendable." One of my early memories of that as a young man was watching them on the TeeVee ditching Hueys in the South China Sea and pushing aircraft overboard the carriers into the sea during the retreat from Vietnam. I thought, "what a waste." We ain't seen nuthin' yet when it comes to waste. When the jews get WWIII goin' in Eye-Ran, most of the world is going to be "expended", it seems.
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)
#69. To: Esso (#68)
That was so a South Viet pilot could land his small plane on the carrier deck. He had his wife and two children with him. Last I read, he was still alive and well living in CA. watching them on the TeeVee ditching Hueys in the South China Sea and pushing aircraft overboard
#70. To: Cynicom, 4um (#68)
The thing is, helicopters are different from planes. An airplane by it's nature wants to fly, and if not interfered with too strongly by unusual events or by a deliberately incompetent pilot, it will fly. A helicopter does not want to fly. It is maintained in the air by a variety of forces and controls working in opposition to each other, and if there is any disturbance in this delicate balance the helicopter stops flying immediately and disastrously. There is no such thing as a gliding helicopter. This is why being a helicopter pilot is so different from being an airplane pilot and why, in general, airplane pilots are open, clear eyed, buoyant extroverts, and helicopter pilots are brooders, introspective anticipators of trouble. They know that if something bad has not happened, it is about to. Harry Reasoner, February 16, 1971 Wanna take a wild guess as to who the "brooding, introspective anticipator of trouble" in my family is? Off topic, but that last post brought this to mind. I have a brass & wood plaque with this inscription around here somewhere...
ABC Evening News during the Viet Nam War
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)
#71. To: Esso (#70)
People that fly helio poppers need to undergo regular saliva tests. They aint quite right, know what I mean????
#72. To: Cynicom (#71)
Well, that's all ancient history now, OM. After 9-11, I took the Glock out of my flight bag, threw the bag & logbook up in the attic, and haven't flown since. I knew that day that I'd never be allowed near an airport without having my rights violated. I don't even miss it much anymore.
Mike Flaherty: Yeah, it's been there a long time. I wish I knew which corner.
My Man Godfrey (1936)
#73. To: Esso (#70)
uhhhhh....that's a difficult one. ;) Wanna take a wild guess as to who the "brooding, introspective anticipator of trouble" in my family is?
#74. To: Cynicom, All (#54)
Latest news is that the soldier was previously diagnosed with PTS. After two years, he was sent back into combat.
#75. To: Phant2000 (#74)
The soldier regained his ability to march while shouldering a rifle. diagnosed with PTS. After two years, he was sent back into combat.
-Alex Kurtagic
#76. To: Phant2000 (#74)
That is all a charade made up by grunt enlisted men to obtain a disability pension. We are all wise to that ruse, no extenuating circumstances here. My friend was a Major, did three deployments there, they offered him Lt.Col if he would go one more time. He refused, he just could not take it anymore. The military derides anyone that says they cannot stand any more stress, they are called malingerers and flagged and booted from the service..WITH NOTHING. diagnosed with PTS
#77. To: Cynicom (#76)
We are all wise to that ruse, no extenuating circumstances here. I well know both sides of that coin. Had this soldier attempted to play that ruse out, he would have been kicked out. I see that tongue of your's in your cheek, Cyni. You can't BS an old bullshitter! That is all a charade made up by grunt enlisted men to obtain a disability pension.
#78. To: Phant2000 (#77)
Seems now this soldier underwent brain injury during a previous "all expense paid tour of Afghanistan"... Doctors will be sweating, hoping they were not the ones that said he was "fit for service".
#79. To: Phant2000, All (#74) (Edited)
I'm not surprised. Is anyone? Can't be in the business of empire building these days without a kickback for the Psych and Pharmaceuticals industries -- particularly not America, anyway. In other related news, Merkel told the German troops that a 2013-2014 pullout may be overly optimistic. No comparison to My Lai, said Obama unconvincingly, to taint and stress our troops Vietnam-style -- just a lone-nut gunman. Meanwhile, a public rep from Kandahar by the name of Lalai, whose name looks eerily similar, chanted "Down to America". More bloodshed being whooped up, delayed withdrawl to be expected, our troops demoralized and degraded as babykillers. Anti-American PsyOp Mission Accomplished. Oh, and don't ask how the guy hiked that far with fuel to destroy evidence. Just believe whatever is press released. Edited for grammar. Latest news is that the soldier was previously diagnosed with PTS.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
#80. To: GreyLmist (#79)
Excellent point. We all accuse the press of dishonesty when it suits our agenda then will believe anything printed when it fits our complaint. Not only is that hypocritical, but also complicit. ... don't ask how the guy hiked that far with fuel to destroy evidence. Just believe whatever is press released.
#81. To: Phant2000 (#80) (Edited)
I suspect this may have been staged as a punishment for not attacking Iran and Syria when prodded to do that. Edited for grammar.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
#82. To: GreyLmist (#79)
I disbelieve any version of events that has not been subjected to forensic examination and argumentation in an open public forum. I discard most of what I hear with prejudice, because I have learned that whatever you hear about a story, when you look closely, there is often something screwy. What have we learned from the Pat Tillman story or the fairy tales that were spun around the "capture" of Bin Ladin but that our government is content to weave a most convenient narrative around the most horrific of circumstances. And, once more, we have a "lone nut" who will be hung out to dry. He's "all lawyered up" already and won't say a word. Does Timothy McVeigh come to mind? They are already talking about giving this guy the needle. You have to listen the closest to those that don't have a dog in the fight. My government usually has the most to lose in these situations, and it's my government that I tend to disbelieve first, because its spokesman reach for the lie first. They do so reflexively and just on general principle. The "laughing and drunken" part may be an embellishment by locals and would fit in with the propaganda line on the other side. However the allegation of multiple shooters and the question of how one guy lugs around enough chemicals or fuel in the dark to burn some bodies activates my bullshit filter. He was assigned to support a special operations unit of either Green Berets or Navy SEALs engaged in a village stability operation. Such operations are among NATO's best hopes for transitioning out of Afghanistan, pairing special operations troops with villagers chosen by village elders to become essentially a sanctioned, armed neighbourhood watch. He has reportedly been stationed in Afghanistan since December. . . . Neighbours said they had awoken to crackling gunfire from American soldiers, who they described as laughing and drunk. 'They were all drunk and shooting all over the place,' said Agha Lala, who visited one of the homes where killings took place. 'Their [the victims'] bodies were riddled with bullets.' A senior U.S. defence official in Washington rejected witness accounts that several apparently drunk soldiers were involved. 'Based on the preliminary information we have this account is flatly wrong,' the official said. 'We believe one U.S. service member acted alone, not a group of U.S. soldiers.' An AP photographer reported that he saw 15 bodies of Afghans - some of them burned and some covered with blankets - in the villages of Alkozai and Balandi in Kandahar province's Panjwai district. One man told the AFP news agency of his great loss. ‘Eleven members of my family are dead. They are all dead,’ Haji Samad said. 'They [Americans] poured chemicals over their dead bodies and burned them,' a weeping Mr Samad told Reuters at the scene. According to Al Jazeera, the soldier went into three separate houses at 3am local time when it was pitch black and shot the civilians, who were sleeping in their beds. Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2113410/US-soldier-kills-16- Afghan-civilians-deadly-shooting-rampage.html#ixzz1ozm1CtKu So here you have a "village stability operation" and an "armed neighbourhood watch" in one of Afghanistan's premier DOPE GROWING regions. Who the hell knows what went down here? As a measure of how quickly we forget reports of outrages and abuses from our imperial outposts, here's another story about BURNED BODIES that's worth reading. The events were shown on an Australian television program, broadcast there on Wednesday night, depicting what is described as an American psychological operations team broadcasting taunts over a loudspeaker toward a village thought to be harboring Taliban fighters and sympathizers, according to a transcript of the program. It was posted on the Web site of the Special Broadcasting Service, http://news.sbs.com.au/dateline/. An American soldier, an Afghan soldier, and two Taliban had just been killed in fighting there, the transcript of the program said. According to the program's translation of the taunts, which were delivered in the local language by American forces on the scene, a soldier identified as Sgt. Jim Baker, said: "You allowed your fighters to be laid down facing west and burned. You are too scared to come down and retrieve the bodies. This just proves you are the lady boys we always believed you to be." After news agencies reported the broadcast, the Pentagon said such acts were forbidden and began the criminal investigation. Several senior officials said preliminary indications suggested that the video and the program's translation were accurate, and that the incident posed the potential to do further harm in the Islamic world to the image of the United States, already badly tarnished by the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal. The reference to the bodies "facing west" appeared to be a deliberate mocking of the Islamic requirement to face Mecca during prayers. The Muslim faith prohibits cremation and holds respect of the body of the dead as a central tenet. The American soldiers told a freelance photojournalist who recorded the incident that they burned the bodies for hygienic reasons, he said in an interview in the studios of the SBS program "Dateline." But human rights organizations said Wednesday that burning bodies was an act of desecration in the Islamic faith and a violation of the Geneva Conventions. A statement issued by the Central Command said "desecration, abuse or inappropriate treatment of enemy combatants" were never condoned and that they would violate United States policy "as well as the Geneva Convention." "This command takes all allegations of misconduct or inappropriate behavior seriously," Maj. Gen. Jason K. Kamiya, the American commander of daily tactical operations in Afghanistan, said in a separate statement issued by the Central Command. "If the allegation is substantiated, the appropriate course of action under the Uniform Code of Military Justice and corrective action will be taken." General Kamiya continued, "This command does not condone the mistreatment of enemy combatants or the desecration of their religious and cultural beliefs." In the past, allegations of disrespect for Islam by American forces have sparked heated and even violent reactions in the Muslim world. Pentagon and Bush administration officials said Wednesday night they were trying to determine details of the incident, which the program said happened earlier this month in Gonbaz, a village in southern Afghanistan about 60 miles from the former Taliban stronghold of Kandahar. "Really bad news," said an administration official who follows Afghan issues closely. "This is very serious," a senior military official said. Both officials spoke on condition of anonymity because of the pending investigation. The program's video was taken by Stephen Dupont, a freelance Australian photojournalist who was embedded in the American unit to document its operations. Mr. Dupont's photographs from the region have been widely published. In a separate interview posted on the network's Web site on Wednesday, Mr. Dupont said soldiers from an unidentified airborne unit appeared to believe they were doing the right thing in laying the corpses of the two dead Taliban toward Mecca, and then setting them on fire. The video shows flames swirling around two charred corpses, their legs and arms outstretched, and a group of five American soldiers watching from a rocky ledge. A spokesman for Mr. Dupont, Robert Pledge, said Wednesday night that the incident took place on Oct. 1, and involved soldiers from the First Battalion, 508th Infantry Regiment of the 173rd Airborne Brigade. Mr. Dupont said the first group of soldiers told him, "We've been told to burn the bodies; the bodies have been here for 24 hours and they're starting to stink so, for hygiene reasons, this is what we've got to do." But then Mr. Dupont said a second group of soldiers from a psychological operations unit intentionally used the burnt bodies as a propaganda tool. "They deliberately wanted to incite that much anger from the Taliban so the Taliban could attack them," Mr. Dupont said. In the program, Sergeant Baker's taunt is heard first. Then a second soldier, who was not identified, chimes in singling out several mullahs by name: "Your time in Afghanistan is short. You attack and run away like women. You call yourself Talibs but you are a disgrace to the Muslim religion and you bring shame upon your family. Come and fight like men instead of the cowardly dogs you are." In the interview with the producers, Mr. Dupont explained that the American soldiers had been trying to bait the Taliban fighters to shoot at them. "They want the Taliban to fight them because they can't find them otherwise." http://www.nytimes.com/2005/10/20/international/asia/20afghan.html? hp&ex=1129867200&en=ccd9c41e0b787f89&ei=5094&partner=homepage . . . . Little is known about the soldier who committed the atrocities, including his name, but a U.S. official said he is married with three children, and served three separate tours in Iraq.
October 20, 2005 Army Examining an Account of Abuse of 2 Dead Taliban By ERIC SCHMITT WASHINGTON, Oct. 19 - The Pentagon announced Wednesday night that the Army had started a criminal investigation into allegations that American soldiers in Afghanistan had burned the bodies of two dead Taliban fighters and then used the charred and smoking corpses in a propaganda campaign against the insurgents.
Something always smells, and it ain't just the charred corpses.
#83. To: randge, Phant2000 (#82)
Something always smells, and it ain't just the charred corpses. Good heavens... People will be suspecting you of being a...CYNIC... This is one of those stories that after reading, you want to wash your hands and down a slug of Olde Jack before you try to sort the horseshit from the feathers. and it's my government that I tend to disbelieve first, because its spokesman reach for the lie first. They do so reflexively and just on general principle.
#84. To: Cynicom (#83)
I have applied for lifetime membership to the Society for Pathological Cynicism and Professional Skeptics and will be asking you for a Letter of Recommendation shortly. I will forward a copy of my bona fides on request. - r.
#85. To: randge (#82)
And that's the objective -- along with more casualties, more War, more demoralization. Thanks for your input, randge. Psychological operations, no doubt and likely foreign-aligned agents -- as if our troops aren't instructed any better than that on Geneva Conventions. Other similar news in Iraq around the same time: Antiwar Forum: Home Invasions Strike Fear North of Baghdad; 16 Killed Across Iraq -- not by Americans Sunday: 16 Iraqis Killed, 14 Wounded by Margaret Griffis, March 11, 2012 Five people were killed in Tarmiya when gunmen stormed a home, shooting an entire family before demolishing their home with explosives. The owner of the home worked as a bodyguard for the town’s mayor. The rest of the victims were his wife, sister and two daughters. Gunmen stormed a home in Bab al-Khan. Three people were killed and three more were wounded. A child and two women were killed, while a girl and two men were wounded.the incident posed the potential to do further harm in the Islamic world to the image of the United States,
Gunmen staged a horrific attack north of Baghdad where they stormed the home of a bodyguard, killing five people. Unfortunately, it was not the only home invasion today. At least 11 more Iraqis were killed and 14 were wounded in other violence.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
#86. To: GreyLmist (#85)
Iraq. Yes. Abu Ghraib was another of those "foreign-aligned" operations, and like all of these capers, the objective is to stir the shit and to set the scene for further instability and mayhem. If the locals won't come out and fight us, let's poke 'em with a pointy stick. After all, we're not here for the filafel. likely foreign-aligned agents
#87. To: randge, All (#82)
veteranstoday.com - Sixteen Dead, Nameless “Lone Gunman,” We Have Heard It All Before: http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp- content/uploads/2012/03/965-iunJ6.St_.55-e1331600207510.jpg The caption says: "An intense fuel source was used here" But the evidence says otherwise -- little to no smoke damage; more like some ashes from a fireplace and some wine were put there. How many hours would a body have to burn in that house to be reduced to those ashes? -- how much smoke, even though the interior looks so white? What kind of Military "leadership" doesn't even ask basic questions like that, just kicks it all to the Medical Industrial Complex for their revenuers, knowing that our Troops are being revenge-targeted for death? Not Military leadership at all, imo, but Foreign Mole Infiltraitors. Something always smells, and it ain't just the charred corpses.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
#88. To: randge (#86)
Yes. Who has such utter disregard for the lives of others, even our Troops? People at War with God's Creation. Abu Ghraib was another of those "foreign-aligned" operations, and like all of these capers, the objective is to stir the shit and to set the scene for further instability and mayhem.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
#89. To: GreyLmist (#87)
"Then there is the unasked question, how 97% of the world’s heroin supply is flown out of American held territory, tacitly with the approval of Richard Holbrooke and now, who approves, who cashes the checks, who loads the planes? By these standards, my friend and I were rank amateurs at war it seems." www.veteranstoday.com/wp- content/uploads/2012/03/965-iunJ6.St_.55-e1331600207510.jpg
#90. To: Phant2000 (#4)
The soldiers that go nuts over in the Middle East will come home, become cops and go nuts on civilians in America because they've been drugged and conditioned to maim and murder. They'll be recognized as "heros" who are simply doing their "jobs." How many more soldiers are we going to allow to go nuts over in that God forsaken Middle East
#91. To: randge (#89) (Edited)
Link for the above: http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/03/11/murder- in-afghanistan-the-coverup-begins/ Yes. And Mike Rivero asked some good questions, too, on this article at antiwar.com: Sen. Graham: Massacre of Civilians Doesn’t Mean Afghan War Strategy Flawed 'These Things Happen,' Hawkish Senator Insists by Jason Ditz, March 11, 2012 Mike Rivero: [T]hese statements on the part of Senator Graham indicate that he has either gone foaming at the mouth, barking mad, or is very, very heavily invested in the military contractors making billions by providing mercenaries, supplies, and logistics. I would suspect the latter. [sic] Perhaps, if he is heavily financially invested in military contractors, he would like to see this war go on indefinitely, no matter how many more of our military, or Afghan citizens either die, or get maimed for life. To people like Graham, they are simply "collateral damage", and not to get in the way of his profits. Me: End the War now. No more War Profiteers in our branches of Government. Edited for spacing. "Then there is the unasked question, how 97% of the world’s heroin supply is flown out of American held territory, tacitly with the approval of Richard Holbrooke and now, who approves, who cashes the checks, who loads the planes? By these standards, my friend and I were rank amateurs at war it seems."
Graham went on to say that the key to the war was to make a public commitment to keep occupation forces in the country beyond 2014, saying that a continued military presence would “make sure the Taliban never come back.”
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
#92. To: sizzlerguy (#90)
Gosh, how did we ever get through so many Wars in our history without being petrified by such fears? The soldiers that go nuts over in the Middle East will come home, become cops and go nuts on civilians in America because they've been drugged and conditioned to maim and murder.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
#93. To: sizzlerguy (#90)
Horse feathers! The soldiers that go nuts over in the Middle East will come home, become cops and go nuts on civilians in America ...
#94. To: Phant2000 (#93)
Heck, I don't know what it's like in your town, but in mine, the high ranking cops are all military minded and have the mentality of terrorists and appear to percieve civilians as their enemy.
#95. To: sizzlerguy (#94)
And let's not forget that police officers are civilians and that police departments are civilian entities. and appear to percieve civilians as their enemy
A people that would and could throw the bums out in the voting booth never has to. - Prefrontal Vortex
#96. To: randge (#95)
The pigs are part of the "establishment." They consider themselves "better" than the average civilian, and are just one piece of the "municipal" system comprised of all local, county, state and federal government municipal entities. Those pigs have teamed up with other "municipal" entities , such as the corrupt medical establishment, corrupt politicians, fire department paramedics, organized religious zealots, and those "robots" they reward and/or blackmail to participate, their municipal employees, operatives, informants, brainwashed mental patients, drug dealers and drug addicts to entrap and enslave us all. Watch and see. When National Healthcare take affect, the pigs will be dragging civilians into hospitals for mental health "evaluations," and their "agents," the foreign doctors will drug anyone and everyone to oblivion who they consider a threat to their cozy corrupt alliances with all of the above.
#97. To: randge (#95)
Even Federal police can and do walk away ANYTIME THEY DESIRE. Therein lies the difference between military and civilian "pigs". I have seen what happens in the military to people that walk away because their conscience dictates. And let's not forget that police officers are civilians and that police departments are civilian entities.
#98. To: sizzlerguy (#96)
Ohio Votes to Nullify Insurance Mandates You might want to get a similar initiative on the ballot in your State. What is it you're trying to say, though? Our Troops should never come home? Replace our Military with a Star Wars system so you won't worry so much? -- even though lots of our Vets are unemployed and homeless, not working for a Police State.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
#99. To: GreyLmist (#98)
The military shouldn't be drugging our soldiers to behave like inhuman killing "machines." One the soldiers are transformed into military robotic killer machines, that killer instinct can't be turned off and they are loose cannons with short fuses which will inevitably be unleashed on the civilian population, regardless of their future profession. What is it you're trying to say
#100. To: Cynicom (#97)
Gotcha. Therein lies the difference between military and civilian "pigs".
#101. To: Jethro Tull (#100)
Jethro... I greatly dislike a blanket call of all police and military as "pigs". We all dislike "authority", particularly from the state. Society however has to protect itself from those that abuse and destroy. During your career I suspect you did or saw others that risked their own lives in some manner because it was right and proper. Pigs all? No.
#102. To: sizzlerguy (#99)
No, our Military should not be drugged but Big Pharma has many people drugged from childhood before they even get to the Military or other occupations. I'm still wondering if what you are trying not to say is that our Military should never come home or that you would prefer it to be replaced by a Star Wars system or what.
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"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC
#103. To: GreyLmist (#102)
I really don't have the answer as the permanent damage to the minds of many in the military and civilian population has been inflicted. If someone could invent a time machine, all these human atrocities caused by Big Pharma drugs could be avoided.
#104. To: Cynicom (#101)
By the end of the 60s, I was so used to being called a pig, I thought it was my god given name once I had a few belts of Johnny Walker Black in me :)
#105. To: Jethro Tull (#104)
And all this time I thought "pigs" were loose women!!!
#106. To: Jethro Tull, Phant2000 (#104)
In the 1960s a friend of mine was a local NY State trooper. Beer drinking Irishman. After arrival of LBJ, things were getting out of hand. Mike told me one day, "we are in trouble". Seems he had been driving thru local small town, saw a young boy on the sidewalk, waved to the boy and the boy gave Mike the finger. He took the kid home told the Mother what the kid had done and she told him, " you mind your own business and stop picking on my little boy or I will report you"...
#107. To: Cynicom (#106)
I remember the times well. The evildoers were plotting our future and we fell for it, hook, line and sinker. In the 1960s a friend of mine was a local NY State trooper.
#108. To: Phant2000, Jethro Tull, Christine, randge, noone222 (#107)
It was a time of awakening for many of us. There was a nagging feeling that "things" were not right, that there was something afoot that we neither saw nor understood. It was then I became aware there was a thread that ran thru this government that spanned time and generations, a thread of evil spun by men of evil. This unseen thread has now carried the Fed Res for 100 years thru our history as a blood sucking creature, created by man, entwined with this thread are wars and endless wars for profit, on and on. Our education system has been devoured, freedom is gone. And yet people believe this just started a few days ago. I remember the times well.
#109. To: Cynicom (#108)
The "TRILLIONS" recently introduced into the international banking community [cabal] dwarfs the general military budget of the world and is likely in the process of funding the materials and weaponery necessary for instituting the GENERAL INTERNATIONAL POPULATION REDUCTION PROGRAMS longed for by the scumbags for millenia.
"You assist an evil system most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. An evil system never deserves such allegiance. Allegiance to it means partaking of the evil. A good person will resist an evil system with his or her whole soul."
Mahatma Gandhi
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