[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help] 

Status: Not Logged In; Sign In

Intense Exercise is Best

New Cars Are George Orwell 1984 Compliant

PEGASUS EVENT 201

Over Half Of Berlin's New Police Recruits Can't Speak Basic German, Officials Admit

Thomas Massie NAMES Epstein as a CIA and Israeli Asset

How Chickens See the World (Its CRAZIER Than You Think)

You remember TommyTheMadArtist?

Joe Rogan on the Belgian Malinois

Democrat New Mexico Governor Admits National Guard Making Progress In High-Crime Albuquerque

Florida banning vaccine mandates

To Prevent Strokes, Take Potassium.

Lawyer for Epstein VICTIMS Shares Details Trump FEARED THE MOST

WW3? French Hospitals Told To Prepare For A "Major Military Engagement" Within Six Months

The Zionist Experiment Is Over

Sen. Tim Kaine: ‘Extremely Troubling’ to Say Natural Rights Are from God

Israel & The Assassination Of The Kennedy Brothers

JEWISH RITUAL MURDER (Documentary)

The Pakistani mayor of Rotherham claims she proud to be British and proud to be Pakistani.

Khe Sanh 1968 How U.S. Marines Faced the Siege in Vietnam

Did Xi's Parade Flip The Script On US Defense Of Taiwan?

Cascade Volcanoes Show Weird Pulse Without Warning – Mount Rainier Showing Signs of Trouble!

Cash Jordan: Chicago Apartments RAIDED... ICE 'Forcibly Evicts' Illegal Squatters at 3AM

We are FINALLY turning the tide on 9/11 - The TRUTH is coming out | Redacted w Clayton Morris

Netanyahu SHAKEN as New Hostage Video DESTROYS IDF Lies!

We are FINALLY turning the tide on 9/11 VIDEO

Shocking Video Shows Ukrainian Refugee Fatally Stabbed On Charlotte Train By Career Criminal

Man Identifies as Cat to Cop

his video made her stop consuming sugar.

Shot And Bothered - Restored Classic Coyote & Road Runner Looney Tunes Cartoon 1966

How to Prove the Holocaust is a Hoax in Under 2 Minutes


Ron Paul
See other Ron Paul Articles

Title: Ron Paul’s Hour of Decision
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://original.antiwar.com/justin/ ... 13/ron-pauls-hour-of-decision/
Published: Mar 15, 2012
Author: Justin Raimondo
Post Date: 2012-03-15 08:56:17 by Ada
Keywords: None
Views: 659
Comments: 46

Is Ron Paul running for president in the wrong party?

The results of the GOP primaries, so far, would certainly seem to suggest that. Paul’s support draws heavily from two constituencies one doesn’t normally associate with the Republican party: young voters, who are overwhelmingly independents, and antiwar voters, who tend to be Democrats. He has carried the youth vote and garnered a significant proportion of independents in virtually every contest: more significantly, polls show him beating President Obama in the general election by winning a huge portion of the independent and youth votes. Combined with the anybody-but-Obama vote, Paul’s potential base of support in a two-way race defines the contours of a winning electoral coalition, one that could win him the White House, bring about a major political realignment – and upend the political Establishment in this country.

The problem, for Paul, is that the GOP leadership is implacably opposed to his candidacy: never mind all that nonsense about a Romney-Paul “alliance,” which was just an invention of the “mainstream” media pushed by the Santorum campaign. After all, the Romneyites stole the Maine caucuses right out from under the Paul campaign, and are doing their best to repeat the same fraud in the rest of the caucus states. Some “alliance”!

Three factors have kept Paul from being a real contender: not only the hostility of the leadership and the age demographics of the average Republican primary voter – which is well over 40 – but also the ideological factor. After a decade and more of neoconservative domination, not only of the party but of the conservative movement, the GOP is the War Party. For the Paul campaign, this is fatal. Ron has made his anti-interventionist views the linchpin of his campaign: he never fails to bring up the issue of war and peace, even when discussing some economic or social topic. That’s because he realizes – unlike some “libertarians” – the issue is central to the question of rolling back the power of government to rule our lives.

While Paul regularly invokes the “Old Right” and the legacy of Robert A. Taft and the Taft Republicans, this tradition has been long forgotten by Republican voters – and deliberately buried and disdained by the party’s intellectuals, such as they are, who regularly rail against “isolationism” and hail FDR and Winston Churchill as their chosen icons.

The result is that, after an initial spurt of success – starting out with a respectable showing in Iowa, and placing second in New Hampshire – the Paul campaign has fallen back to its 2008 levels, with Ron rarely breaking 10 percent.

The response of the Paul campaign has been to hunker down and reassure its enthusiastic supporters – and they haven’t lost their enthusiasm, not by a long shot – that they have a strategy. That strategy is to concentrate on getting delegates, rather than winning “beauty contests,” i.e. primaries in which the results don’t determine who gets the delegates. In many states, the process of delegate selection is long and involved, with county, regional, and state-wide conventions being held to determine who gets to go to Tampa. Given the dedication of the Paulians, and their superior organizational skills, the idea is that Ron will get many more delegates than his vote totals in the primaries would indicate, through sheer perseverance.

However, the process hasn’t always worked out that way. The Paulians, having devoted themselves to learning the arcane rules governing delegate selection, and playing by the book, often arrive at these conventions to find that the rule book has been thrown out by the party leadership. Huge fights have broken out at these shindigs, and the going has been pretty rough: when the party leaders arrive to find the hall packed with under-30 Paulians, all waving signs and wearing buttons, suddenly the rules are “revised,” and the Paulian playbook is no longer applicable.

The Paul campaign started out with the odds stacked against it: the GOP leadership and the “mainstream” media both did everything they could to smear, discredit, and discount him and his supporters. This effort failed: Ron emerged from the pack, and went on to create what is arguably the most vital and alive movement this country has seen since the 1960s.

However, the growth and development of the Paulian movement has now reached its limits within the confines of the GOP, like a potted plant whose roots can no longer be contained. Either the plant is put in the ground, or its roots will become so stunted that the plant will wither and die.

In short, the Paulians must make a decision: either break free of the bonds of the GOP, or else face a future of dwindling political fortunes.

Consider the two likeliest scenarios: 1) Romney gains the magic number of 1144 delegates before the Tampa convention, and is declared the winner: i.e. it’s a repeat of the McCain victory in 2008. And we all remember what happened in 2008: Ron was locked out of the convention, and the Paulians held their own well-attended convention down the street. Paul never endorsed McCain (perish the thought!), and the neocon-run McCain campaign managed to run their candidate – and the GOP – into the ground.

Now, however, we are confronted with a quite different prospect: a brokered convention. With no candidate winning the magic number of delegates, the usual nominating convention-as-coronation scenario is thrown out the window, and what the mainstream media and party officials refer to as “chaos” reigns in Tampa. Translation: the convention will revert back to the way these events normally played out in the Good Old Days, before Big Money and Big Media turned them into political Kabuki theater, with the players and the outcome predetermined from the start.

While this prospect is refreshing, and even exciting – as any disruption in our ritualized political process would be – it still doesn’t hold out much hope for the Paul campaign. The reason is because, short of Paul getting the nomination, there is nothing concrete to be gained from a brokered convention.

With Romney in the lead, delegate-wise, a brokered convention will center on efforts by the Not-Romneys to put together a coalition capable of grabbing the nomination away from Mitt. Yet the Paulians are highly unlikely to be a part of this Not-Romney coalition – unless, of course, they ditch their principles and their whole rationale for launching the campaign to begin with. For this would mean voting for an anti-libertarian schmuck, i.e. either Santorum or Gingrich. That, I believe, is never going to happen: if it did, the Paulian movement would immediately implode, given the enormity of the sell-out.

There is, on the other hand, another possibility, and that is allying with the Romneyites against the Santorum and Gingrich camps. Yet, again, we are faced with the question of what concrete rewards the Paulians could expect to gain from such a dark alliance. In my view, a realistic answer to that question is: exactly nothing.

In the view of some Paul campaign officials, however, the answer is not so clear, as this televised interview with campaign manager Jesse Benton demonstrates. Ignore the typically biased and obnoxious demeanor of the interviewer, and focus on Benton’s answers toward the end, when he says a brokered convention could yield all sorts of rewards for the Paul campaign, such as “a cabinet position,” changes in the party platform — and even “the vice-presidency”!

It’s hard to decide whether this kind of speculation is delusional or just a way of reassuring Paul’s supporters that there’s a good reason to keep sending in the campaign contributions and pinning their hopes on making a splash in Tampa. As we all know, however, a stone makes a splash before it sinks to the bottom of the pond….

The idea that Romney is going to offer the vice-presidential nomination to Ron – or his son, Rand, freshly elected to the Senate from Kentucky – is a pipe dream. The party leadership would never allow it, the convention might well rebel (as a way of expressing conservative discontent with the candidate), and – in my opinion – Romney would never offer it in the first place.

As for changes in the party platform [.pdf] – so what? No one pays attention to these documents, not even the candidates, who are not bound by them. A cabinet position would be a paltry prize indeed, and accepting such a deal – handing the nomination to Romney in exchange for, say, making Nick Gillespie the drug czar – or, more likely, making Rand Paul Transportation Secretary – would be a humiliating end to what started out as a noble crusade.

In each case, the price the Paul campaign would have to pay for such ill-gotten “gains” would be so high that the result would be the effective end of the Paulian movement: that’s because the price would be supporting the nominee, i.e. Mitt Romney, with a personal endorsement from Ron. I, for one, can’t imagine him doing that: whenever he’s asked if he would consider supporting the eventual nominee, Paul gives every indication that the answer is no. He explains why in this interview, in which he emphasizes the Republicans’ warmongering as a major reason not to endorse any of them.

Viewed objectively, and with the long-range goals of the Paulians in mind, there is only one road forward for the movement: the third party route.

Running on a third party ticket would give Paul access to the votes of his natural constituency: the young independents disgusted with both parties who yearn for real change – i.e. a revolution – in Washington. It would give the Old Right remnant in the GOP, which Paul has reawakened from its long sleep, a place to go in November, while also making room for independents, antiwar voters, civil libertarians, disillusioned Obamaites, and other constituencies unlikely to be caught dead voting in a Republican primary.

Polls indicate Paul would get anywhere from 18 percent to 21 percent running as a third party candidate, and the percentage seem to be climbing as the actual election draws nearer. These same polls indicate he would draw two-thirds of his votes from the Republican column, but I don’t think these “drill-down” analyses hold much water: what they leave out is non-voters, new voters, and – most important of all – future events. If the US starts bombing Iran before election day, or, say, we have another economic meltdown, as we did in the winter of 2008, then all bets are off – and the prospect of a Paul victory becomes more than mere wishful thinking.

A Paul third party candidacy would not only open up a prospect that, right now, seems highly unlikely if not impossible – i.e. Ron Paul sitting in the Oval Office – it would also place significant constraints on the other candidates, including President Obama. Faced only with a warmongering Republican, Obama can pretty much do whatever he likes when it comes to provoking, sanctioning, and threatening Iran: after all, antiwar voters have nowhere else to go. With Paul in the race, however, Obama is going to have to be very careful not to lose his left-ish antiwar constituency, which has so far stuck with him as the lesser to the two evils. If and when Obama makes his move against Iran, Paul’s third party campaign will be right there, scarfing up votes from the President’s disillusioned and angry former supporters.

Indeed, the ultimate effect of a Paulian third party ticket could well be preventing the outbreak of a major war in the Middle East. This, it seems to me, is a factor the Paul campaign is going to have to weigh in the balance as it considers its options. In terms of the Paulians’ own principles – especially their characteristic opposition to wars of aggression on moral grounds – this is a powerful argument for launching a third party campaign.

We don’t endorse candidates here at Antiwar.com, and for a very good reason: we’re a journalistic enterprise, not a political organization, and we don’t take orders from any party central committee or faction. Nor do we give a blank check to any politician – no, not even Ron Paul. There can be little doubt, however, that the Paul campaign has had a tremendous effect on the antiwar movement in this country, with several longtime peace campaigners taking up Paul’s cause. He has become a symbol of the anti-interventionist impulse in modern American politics, and his political fate is bound up to a large extent with the fate of the antiwar movement – and the prospects for peace in the 21st century.

He has moved the discourse forward, challenging the premises of the interventionists at every turn and upholding a consistent vision of a republic that respects the sovereignty of all and seeks to lead by example rather than by force. If his voice is stilled after the Tampa convention, American voters will be left with a “choice” of an outright warmonger in Republican clothing versus our somewhat less overtly belligerent albeit no less interventionist sitting President, whose foreign policy record is worse than his predecessor’s.

Ron Paul’s last hurrah cannot – must not — be a “deal” made in Tampa, and I’d be willing to bet the ranch no such deal will be forthcoming. Speaking as a political analyst, and not a partisan, I would venture to say the Paulian movement will peter out and come to nothing if it stays locked within a Republican straitjacket. Liberated from their partisan constraints, Paul’s supporters will be spared the Long March through the GOP apparatus, and instead of wasting their time running for county central committee they’ll be freed up to make the case for peace directly to the American people.

What course the Paul campaign takes in the next few weeks will determine the nature of his political legacy. If it ends in Tampa, then the fate of the Paulian movement will be reflected in this bit of verse from the poet Robinson Jeffers, whose fierce “isolationism” caused him to be exiled from polite “liberal” circles in the run up to World War II:

“While this America settles in the mould of its vulgarity, heavily thickening to empire

“And protest, only a bubble in the molten mass, pops and sighs out, and the mass hardens,

“I sadly smiling remember that the flower fades to make fruit, the fruit rots to make earth.”

Paul has often been asked if he’d run as a third party candidate, and he always gives the same ambiguous answer – and that was necessary, at the time, and proper. However, the moment is fast approaching when ambiguity on this matter becomes increasingly counterproductive, as far as advancing the cause of peace and liberty is concerned.

In politics, timing is everything. Before the movement he created passes the apex of its influence in the GOP and begins to lose its relevance, the candidate and the campaign must stop at this crossroads and contemplate their ultimate direction. The hour of decision has arrived.

NOTES IN THE MARGIN

I would note, for my readers’ information, that this decision cannot wait until the Tampa convention this summer: the most likely vehicle for a Paul third party run, the Libertarian Party, holds its nominating convention at the beginning of May. While it seems likely the LP nomination is Paul’s if he seeks it, the reality is that Paul’s hour of decision will arrive a lot sooner than late August, when the Tampa convention is scheduled to take place. An alternative would be to run on the Constitution Party ticket, which has ballot status in many states: however, the baggage this particular political formation carries may well be a burden the Paulians will wind up wishing they didn’t have to carry. There’s always the course of launching an independent ticket from scratch, but that would be costly and prone to disruption by Republican operatives. Remember how the Democrats followed the Naderites from state to state, mounting harassing lawsuits and keeping Nader off the ballot in several instances? The GOP would no doubt launch a similar operation directed at Paul.

For more on this subject, including my take on how Sen. Rand Paul’s political future plays into all this, see my recent column in Chronicles magazine.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

#1. To: Ada, Christine, Jethro Tull, Phant2000, randge, Esso (#0)

It’s hard to decide whether this kind of speculation is delusional or just a way of reassuring Paul’s supporters that..... there’s a good reason to keep sending in the campaign contributions.... and pinning their hopes on making a splash in Tampa. As we all know, however, a stone makes a splash before it sinks to the bottom of the pond….

The idea that Romney is going to offer the vice-presidential nomination to Ron – or his son, Rand, freshly elected to the Senate from Kentucky – is a pipe dream. The party leadership would never allow it, the convention might well rebel (as a way of expressing conservative discontent with the candidate), and – in my opinion – Romney would never offer it in the first place.

If Paul cuts a deal with Romney for his support, anything less than Sec. of Def. would be a slap in the face.

Ron is running for Rand in 2016.

Cynicom  posted on  2012-03-15   9:13:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Ada (#0)

Yet the Paulians are highly unlikely to be a part of this Not-Romney coalition – unless, of course, they ditch their principles and their whole rationale for launching the campaign to begin with. For this would mean voting for an anti-libertarian schmuck, i.e. either Santorum or Gingrich. That, I believe, is never going to happen: if it did, the Paulian movement would immediately implode, given the enormity of the sell-out.

There is, on the other hand, another possibility, and that is allying with the Romneyites against the Santorum and Gingrich camps. Yet, again, we are faced with the question of what concrete rewards the Paulians could expect to gain from such a dark alliance. In my view, a realistic answer to that question is: exactly nothing.

That's what I said on here the other day. Ron's support is not just for Ron the man but for the ideas and ideals he represents, the cause of liberty. If he makes any kind of deal to endorse any of those warmongering schmucks--whiter versions of the Kenyan who is illegally occupying the White House--his support will be less than enough to win a campaign for a county council seat.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.    Lord Acton

The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi

"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." Mencken

"..if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..."  Lawrence M. Vance

Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)

James Deffenbach  posted on  2012-03-15   9:35:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Cynicom, 4 (#1)

Who knows about 2016, but Rand isn't Ron. They differ on some very substantive issues so Ron's base won't transfer seamlessly to Rand, even if you're right. Ron would never be given a position in anything other than our debt/currency issue. That's the only area even the neocons give him deference.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-03-15   9:55:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Ada (#0)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

—Samuel Adams

America: Israel's bitch

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-03-15   10:44:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Jethro Tull (#3)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

—Samuel Adams

America: Israel's bitch

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-03-15   10:45:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: James Deffenbach (#2)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

—Samuel Adams

America: Israel's bitch

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-03-15   10:47:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Jethro Tull (#3)

What then, will Ron swap his support for, from Mitt Romney?

Cynicom  posted on  2012-03-15   11:12:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Cynicom (#7)

What then, will Ron swap his support for, from Mitt Romney?

As they say back home, "when pigs fly" :P

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-03-15   11:15:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Ada (#0)

Three factors have kept Paul from being a real contender:

He's a kook and completely lacks the will to power.

The latter is why he will not run as third party.

This SHOULD be obvious.

Son-boy is slightly more ambitious.

Ron Paul says he WILL free non-violent drug offenders.
Ron Paul says he WOULD HAVE voted against the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

Prefrontal Vortex  posted on  2012-03-15   11:15:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Jethro Tull (#8)

Will Paul then fold his tent and quietly go away with nothing to show his supporters for their loyalty?

Will Paul make one statement of support for Romney, and fade away?

Will Paul actively support Romney to the hilt?

Paul supporters are the most numerous, most vocal and best organized of all, are they to just silently fade away?

There has to be something gained out of this charade for their work and loyalty. Voting for and being satisfied with Romney is a ...LOSS...not a win.

Cynicom  posted on  2012-03-15   11:22:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Cynicom, 4um (#10)

There has to be something gained out of this charade for their work and loyalty.

Are you sure you want to call his latest effort a charade?

If yes, it's really sad that your bias against RP doesn't allow you to see the very large number of people, particularly young kids, that RP has introduced to the freedom/libertarian mindset. The ones I've worked with will never return to the RvD matrix and that's a good thing. It's one thing to be cynical yet quite another to be close minded.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-03-15   12:15:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Jethro Tull (#11)

Are you sure you want to call his latest effort a charade?

Uhhhhh...Jethro, charade as in....ELECTION.... Jeeeez.

Cynicom  posted on  2012-03-15   12:23:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: All (#12)

If yes, it's really sad that your bias against RP

Just damn Jethro, damn.

I want Paul to come away from this with a pound of flesh from the system. No free ride for Romney and the "pubs".

His supporters deserve that much.

Do you not anything from this effort? Are you willing to settle for nothing???

Cynicom  posted on  2012-03-15   12:33:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Jethro Tull (#11)

Squib from interview with Rand...

" Following an interview at a Des Moines radio station, I asked Rand Paul if he has encouraged his father to stay in the Republican party if he doesn’t win the GOP nomination. “I’m encouraging him to try to win the Iowa primary. It’s kind of hard to think about leaving your party when you might be the nominee,” he said.

Asked if he would support his father as a third-party candidate, Paul replied: “I’ve always said I think the Tea Party movement is best and most effective within the Republican party. The Tea Party movement as a separate movement would divide some of the Republican vote.”

“I have not been publicly in favor of a third party candidate and I have not been in favor of the Tea Party splitting off,” Paul said. “But I think people really need to rethink that question when a guy’s leading the polls in Iowa–to be asking about running as a third party when we’re still talking about winning the Republican nomination.”

Jethro...If Ron bolts the party, Rand will be a one term Senator.

So why NOT stay in the party, support Romney and now the party OWES RON.

That would be his personal gain from this race, for his supporters (Jethro and the multitude) Ron has to get something of substance. Not VP or some such fig fobbed off on him. Make Romney and the party pay NOW AND LATER.

Cynicom  posted on  2012-03-15   12:54:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Ada, all (#0)

People need to wake up....our elections are rigged. The Republican party is as corrupt as the Democratic party and the two added together equal a two party fraud.

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas  posted on  2012-03-15   13:11:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Cynicom (#14)

Jethro...If Ron bolts the party, Rand will be a one term Senator.

So why NOT stay in the party, support Romney and now the party OWES RON.

Cyni, no offense intended, but you've been pitching this Ron is running for Rand, and now Ron might support Romney for a tad too long. Among the RP supporters here on 4um, can you identify anyone that fits this profile? Why in god's holy name would anyone who supports RP support the gun grabbing, war loving, Romney-Care giving, government growing, drug abolitionist Romney? See my when pigs fly comment if you think RP can persuade his supporters to go there. As for why the Pauls choose the tactic of trying to wrest the Republican party from the neocons, perhaps it's because RPs effort as a Libertarian was a disaster? Not to mention the Republican Party has been snatched once in my lifetime (1964) from the Goldwaters by the Neocons.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-03-15   13:25:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Jethro Tull (#16)

Yep

~~~~~~~~
The OneDollarDVDProject needs patriot activists
to help wake the town and tell the people.
Do your friends and family know what you know?

wakeup  posted on  2012-03-15   13:56:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Jethro Tull (#16)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

—Samuel Adams

America: Israel's bitch

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-03-15   14:14:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: abraxas (#15)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

—Samuel Adams

America: Israel's bitch

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-03-15   14:18:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Jethro Tull (#16)

Cyni, no offense intended, but you've been pitching this Ron is running for Rand, and now Ron might support Romney for a tad too long.

Jethro...I take Ron as a man of his word.

Recall the Trotski memo..Rons words..."I will REMAIN A REPUBLICAN TIL I DIE"

To me that meant no third party, we needed another horse. If anything I am practical/pragmatic. What did we end up with Jethro???????

Obama...We ended up with Obama Jethro, the black man that made Bush look like a tightwad and a peace monger.

Further Jethro...

In the squib I sent from Rand...Note he NEVER ANSWERS THE QUESTION.

He said this...

"Asked if he would support his father as a third-party candidate, Paul replied: “I’ve always said I think the Tea Party movement is best and most effective within the Republican party. The Tea Party movement as a separate movement would divide some of the Republican vote.”

Just perhaps Rons words are true, "Republican til I die"...

Republicans are THE SYSTEM AT WORK.

Cynicom  posted on  2012-03-15   14:25:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: wakeup (#15)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

—Samuel Adams

America: Israel's bitch

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-03-15   14:28:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Eric Stratton (#18)

RP compromises himself instantaneously with even a serious whiff of association with any other candidacy right now.

Agree.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-03-15   14:51:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Cynicom (#20)

To me that meant no third party, we needed another horse.

Perot and his billions failed to qualify for all 50 states. I know you know this so I remain baffled that you actually think RP could pierce these arcane (s)election regulations if Perot couldn't. Furthermore, Perot did launch the Reform Party which was on the ballot in '96 and '00. In '96 I again voted for Perot, but his numbers faltered badly, and in '00 I voted for Buchanan who put a stake in the heart of the Reform Party. So much for the practicality of 3rd parties, sans billions of dollars.

As for Rand, I've never once mentioned him as I have no interest in him. I'm not looking ahead to 2016, I don't think this nation will hold for another 4 years. Should it, and should god give me some additional time on His planet, I'll consider all viable options then.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-03-15   15:04:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Jethro Tull (#22)

Jethro...

I liked this part from original post...

"Indeed, the ultimate effect of a Paulian third party ticket could well be preventing the outbreak of a major war in the Middle East. This, it seems to me, is a factor the Paul campaign is going to have to weigh in the balance as it considers its options. In terms of the Paulians’ own principles – especially their characteristic opposition to wars of aggression on moral grounds – this is a powerful argument for launching a third party campaign."

Cynicom  posted on  2012-03-15   15:07:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Jethro Tull (#23)

As for Rand, I've never once mentioned him as I have no interest in him. I'm not looking ahead to 2016, I don't think this nation will hold for another 4 years. Should it, and should god give me some additional time on His planet, I'll consider all viable options then

Santorum is Bush family in disguise.

Once the race is over no one will remember him.

In 2016 it will be Bush and Rand Paul from the republican establishment.

This time around, there is NO GREAT DESIRE BY THE REPUBLICANS TO DEFEAT OBAMA. None

Cynicom  posted on  2012-03-15   15:22:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Cynicom (#25)

Santorum is Bush family in disguise.

Seems like just about all politicians these days are the Bush family in disguise.

"You shall have fun, no matter what you do." -- Turtle

Turtle  posted on  2012-03-15   15:48:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Cynicom (#25)

If Casey beat Santorum here in PA by 18 % points?, I would expect O'Kenyan to beat him by 75 % points. He's a big government FAKE conservative, as RP so aptly called him to his face.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-03-15   15:52:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Jethro Tull (#3)

Ron would never be given a position in anything other than our debt/currency issue. That's the only area even the neocons give him deference.

I agree. RP is the best thing since sliced bread. I wish I could give him some financial support, but am straining hard just to make ends meet.

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2012-03-15   16:47:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Jethro Tull (#27)

If Casey beat Santorum here in PA by 18 % points?, I would expect O'Kenyan to beat him by 75 % points. He's a big government FAKE conservative, as RP so aptly called him to his face.

LOL

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2012-03-15   16:48:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Cynicom (#25)

This time around, there is NO GREAT DESIRE BY THE REPUBLICANS TO DEFEAT OBAMA.

Right on. This is the main reason we could be saddled with the Kenyan for another four years. I doubt this Republic could survive that. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2012-03-15   16:50:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Turtle (#26)

Seems like just about all politicians these days are the Bush family in disguise.

Any explanation as to why Bushberg family been so quiet???

Cynicom  posted on  2012-03-15   16:53:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Eric Stratton (#18)

RP compromises himself instantaneously with even a serious whiff of association with any other candidacy right now.

RP needs to stand alone. Whoever wins out over the Kenyan should give RP a plum spot in the cabinet. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2012-03-15   16:53:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Cynicom (#31) (Edited)

Any explanation as to why Bushberg family been so quiet???

The Bushies are biding their time until Jeb can run in 2016.

I doubt, however, that the nation could survive another four years of Obummer.

BTW, did you hear that the DEA got the Bush brothers on video tape in Miami picking up a kilo of cocaine? Yep, that's a fact, Jack! ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

BTP Holdings  posted on  2012-03-15   16:54:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: BTP Holdings (#32)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

—Samuel Adams

America: Israel's bitch

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-03-15   17:33:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Eric Stratton (#6)

That was one of my favorite movies.

V for Vendetta - Introduction to Evey

And that is one of my favorite scenes in the movie.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.    Lord Acton

The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi

"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." Mencken

"..if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..."  Lawrence M. Vance

Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)

James Deffenbach  posted on  2012-03-15   18:46:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: James Deffenbach (#35)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

—Samuel Adams

America: Israel's bitch

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-03-15   19:29:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Eric Stratton (#36)

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end.    Lord Acton

The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi

"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." Mencken

"..if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..."  Lawrence M. Vance

Você me trata desse jeito só porque eu sou preto. Junior (my youngest son)

James Deffenbach  posted on  2012-03-15   19:38:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Cynicom (#31)

Any explanation as to why Bushberg family been so quiet???

Darn if I know.

"You shall have fun, no matter what you do." -- Turtle

Turtle  posted on  2012-03-16   12:58:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Turtle (#38)

Darn if I know.

A gentleman of your mental acuity...SHOULD PONDER.

Cynicom  posted on  2012-03-16   13:04:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Cynicom (#39)

Can you say NO-VEM-BAH??

A people that would and could throw the bums out in the voting booth never has to. - Prefrontal Vortex

randge  posted on  2012-03-16   13:10:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



      .
      .
      .

Comments (41 - 46) not displayed.

TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest


[Home]  [Headlines]  [Latest Articles]  [Latest Comments]  [Post]  [Sign-in]  [Mail]  [Setup]  [Help]