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Title: French unrest spreads outside Paris
Source: Guardian Unlimited
URL Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,11882,1634739,00.html
Published: Nov 4, 2005
Author: Staff and agencies
Post Date: 2005-11-04 15:05:20 by Tauzero
Keywords: spreads, outside, French
Views: 517
Comments: 47

French unrest spreads outside Paris

Staff and agencies Friday November 4, 2005

A disabled person was badly burned in an attack on a city bus and more than four hundred cars were torched during an eighth night of rioting in Paris suburbs.

Government officials cited a falling number of direct clashes with police to claim that the situation was becoming calmer, but the violence also spread out of the capital's immediate vicinity.

Reports of unrest surfaced in Rouen in Normandy, Dijon in Burgundy and the Mediterranean port of Marseille. A bus depot was set on fire to the west of Paris in the town of Trappes, near Versailles, destroying 27 buses.

An amateur video aired on television showed them all in a row and in flames.

Gerard Gaudron, mayor of Aulnay-sous-Bois, one of the worst-hit suburbs, insisted "the peak is now behind us" but in the low-income estates on the edge of Paris the mayhem continued.

In Seine-Saint-Denis, the department between central Paris and Charles de Gaulle airport, arson attacks destroyed 187 vehicles and five buildings. Two commuter trains to the airport also came under attack.

Further east, riot police were fired on in Neuilly-sur-Marne and a group of 30 to 40 were harassing police near a synagogue in Stains, where a city bus was torched and a school classroom partially burned.

"Why a school, why a car? What can you say about such blind violence," one local mayor, Michel Beaumale, said.

The unrest started on October 27 when young people of mainly north or black African origin took to the streets over the deaths of two teenagers - Bouna Traore, 15, and Zyed Benna, 17 - who were electrocuted in a power substation where they hid thinking they were being chased by police.

Bouna's brother, Siyakah Traore, today called for the rioters to "calm down and stop ransacking everything."

"This is not how we are going to have our voices heard," he told RTL radio.

Small-scale suburban violence and car torchings are a regular though largely unreported fact of life in troubled Paris suburbs and other French cities where low-income housing estates are marked by unemployment and delinquency.

What sets the current unrest apart is its duration, and the way it rapidly ignited beyond the original flash point.

Residents in the bleak estates were fed up after eight nights of violence. "I've had enough of this," a woman of African origin in Aulnay-sous-Bois told Reuters.

Local politicians complained last night about dithering among national officials after prime minister Dominique de Villepin briefed them about an "action plan for the suburbs" which he aims to present later this month.

"Many of us told him this isn't the time for an umpteenth plan," said Jean-Christophe Lagarde, mayor of Drancy. "All we need is one death and I think it will get out of control."

The rioting has grown into a broader challenge for the French state. It has laid bare discontent simmering in suburbs that are heavily populated by poor African Muslim immigrants and their French-born children, many trapped by poverty, crime and poor education.

France's Muslim population, an estimated 5 million, is Western Europe's largest. Disaffected members claim racism makes the second class citizens.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 45.

#1. To: Tauzero, Zipporah (#0)

Their housing is paid for by the government, and they have so many children that the regular French people will not longer get the benefits they once had. My little brother will have to work now until he is 72 yrs old if he wants to get retirement because the French economy is so broken from supporting all these people.

It used to be mainly the Algerians but now many people from former French colonies in black Africa have come to live in France too, and the young men from both groups tend to form gangs and cause all sorts of mayhem, and they get into gang wars too.

I think I'll call my mother and ask her what is this all about, the "French youth" fighting and rioting. In France it's against the law to make mention of race so they just call them "youths".

Diana  posted on  2005-11-04   15:38:42 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Diana (#1)

Maybe the French will wise up and start deporting these people while they still have a country. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CHEAP LABOR. Labor ALWAYS has a cost. You pay it now, or you pay it later. BUt you can't expect to establish a slave or serf class without it rebelling at some point. That's human nature.

Je suis Spartacus!!!

mehitable  posted on  2005-11-04   16:44:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: mehitable (#13)

BUt you can't expect to establish a slave or serf class without it rebelling at some point. That's human nature.

True, it started out with the Algerians immigrating in the early 60s for jobs, but now most of them are on welfare and have too much time on their hands. I don't know as much about the more recent arrival of the black Africans except that they fight regularly with the Algerians. Plus there are many illegals from all of Africa all over Europe now, it's a big mess, like our situation with the illegals pouring in from south of the border.

Diana  posted on  2005-11-04   16:50:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Diana (#16)

I guess Bridget Bardot - of all people - was RIGHT. BOth about Islam and about the foreign invasion of France. I think it was a combination of leftist guilt about wanting to preserve their own country, and about their own colonialist past, along with the desire for cheap labor and people to exploit. If they don't give off their derrieres soon and deport these people or encourage them to leave the country by cutting off ALL benefits to them, they're going to have a permanent underclass fighting them in the heart of their country. I can't imagine that people could be so stupid or naive as to allow this to happen. Of course, we're doing it in this country too, but it's more about cheap labor for corporations than anything else.

mehitable  posted on  2005-11-04   16:55:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: mehitable, Zipporah, Jethro Tull (#19)

France has had some strage and suicidal policies for a long time, and unfortunatly the Algerians have so many children while the French have very few. It's probably too late to do anything about it, and in France they have tried to pretend there is no such thing as race or cultural differences that can't be settled which is delusional.

I just tried to call my mother again but now her phone is busy which is odd because normally she goes to bed around this time. I'm going to try again though. I also went to the neighbor's and looked at both CNN and FOX, but either things have calmed down or they are not showing the worst parts. They did say Bush is hated there and FOX mentioned Chavez as being a bad guy (I guess because he has all that oil!).

Diana  posted on  2005-11-04   17:48:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Diana (#21)

Where is your mom, Diana, in France or Argentina? I guess I missed that before. I hope she'll be alright.

mehitable  posted on  2005-11-04   17:54:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: mehitable (#22)

She's in France but she lives in a small town, so she is safe there. Only French people live in her town and region, most of them older people.

Diana  posted on  2005-11-04   17:57:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Diana (#23)

In what town or region does she live?

Lady X  posted on  2005-11-05   11:52:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Lady X (#27)

About 2 hours by train west of Paris, not too far from Angers.

Diana  posted on  2005-11-06   9:53:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Diana (#32)

In the Loire?

Lady X  posted on  2005-11-06   17:50:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Lady X (#34)

Yes, close by. I saw on the news tonight that the rioting has spread to other areas including Nantes, that is a little too close for comfort. I'm curious to see what my mother has to say about it all at this point. I don't know why they just don't throw the whole bunch of them in jail. It's a disgrace.

Diana  posted on  2005-11-07   3:15:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Diana (#35)

They should deport them all.

End of story..

Furthermore they best not destroy anything of cultural or historical heritage for if they do I shall go there and eject them myself.

Vive la France et vive le monde Francophone!

Lady X  posted on  2005-11-07   9:37:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Lady X (#36)

There is so much beauty and history in France and at least much of it survived the French Revolution. What happened there has become twisted and distorted in the history books; it was a case very similar to the Russian Revolution where the poor were incited by forces against all France stood for stirring up hatred and envy towards the intelligent, well off and noble families. So many people were killed that it actually changed the demographics of France somewhat. Many families ended up coming to New Orleans and left to go other places as well.

What they did to France and the reign of terror that followed was horrid. Just like the early Soviets they killed off the well to do and the intellectuals. I'm very interested in that period and wish there were more objective resources available to learn more about it. There were definite instigators then too, and as they cried "liberty" like we now abuse the word "democracy", blood flowed in the streets.

I think they should deport these current upstarts too, round them up and send them back to north Africa.

Diana  posted on  2005-11-07   17:21:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Diana (#37)

where the poor were incited by forces against all France stood for stirring up hatred and envy towards the intelligent, well off and noble families

Well, if there was a class that deserved a shellacking it was the aristocrats who let the people starve while they feasted.

Not justifying the brutality of the Jacobins but the elites of France had no one else to blame except their own greedy selfish impulses.

swarthyguy  posted on  2005-11-07   17:35:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: swarthyguy, Lady X (#38)

Well, if there was a class that deserved a shellacking it was the aristocrats who let the people starve while they feasted.

That's the black and white version we are fed.

Louis XV1 was not the brightest king, and when his finance minister resigned and formed alliances against the nobles all hell broke loose and a large percentage of the population was killed; it was way over the top. They even outlawed Christianity, same crap that happened under the Soviets.

Diana  posted on  2005-11-07   18:37:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Diana (#40)

They even outlawed Christianity,

Can you blame them. The priests were total whores for the royals.

The country was denuded by the excesses of the aristocracy. Can't blame them for rising up and killing the nobility, such as it was.

swarthyguy  posted on  2005-11-08   13:40:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: swarthyguy (#42)

Besides the excesses too much money was spent on fighting wars. Louis XIV was a good king but XVI was not.

Yesterday I was listening to NPR as I was driving and they said it was the anniversary of the Russian Revolution. They talked a bit about it, how too much money was spent by the Czar, inflation went up to 700% in a period of 3 yrs, and people were angry over all the deaths due to WWI. It's kind of similar to what happened in France before the revolution, and like France the Bolsheviks went on a massive killing spree.

When these things happen they always go after those with brains and/or money.

Diana  posted on  2005-11-08   18:35:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Diana (#43)

go after those with brains and/or money.

And the reason for that being, that the people with brains didn't use them, the ones who had money hoarded it, and the ones with both allowed the love of money to override their humanity and their rationality, for that matter.

One fascinating aspect of the Russian Revolution is that of Lenin, in an armored train carriage with no windows, courtesy of the Kaiser, with military escorts on other carriages, making the journey from Zurich to St. Petersburg, IIRC, to eventually make a triumphant return to Moscow.

swarthyguy  posted on  2005-11-09   12:55:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: swarthyguy (#44)

One fascinating aspect of the Russian Revolution is that of Lenin, in an armored train carriage with no windows, courtesy of the Kaiser, with military escorts on other carriages, making the journey from Zurich to St. Petersburg, IIRC, to eventually make a triumphant return to Moscow.

Yes! I didn't know that until I heard that piece on NPR about the anniversary of the Bolshevik Revolution, they said Lenin was in exile in Switzerland for some years before he came and took power. They said right before Lenin took power there was actually a 5 year period of peace, though I don't know for sure when that could have been since it sounded chaotic during that whole time period.

I just got home from an errend and on NPR while I was driving they said it was the anniversary of Kristallnacht, and that almost 1000 synagogues were destroyed (I'd never heard that before) and that is thought to have been the start of the Holocaust. Our NPR out here talks a lot about Nazi related material.

One thing about revolutions where they go after people with brains and money, they don't discriminate against good or bad persons, they just want to kill off those who aren't dumb people. I believe they do it to kill off the competition, to reduce chances of a possible revolt against the forces behind the revolutions. They even kill off artists and such when they go on those sprees.

Diana  posted on  2005-11-09   16:37:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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