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Title: French unrest spreads outside Paris
Source:
Guardian Unlimited
URL Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/france/story/0,11882,1634739,00.html
Published: Nov 4, 2005
Author: Staff and agencies
Post Date: 2005-11-04 15:05:20 by Tauzero
Keywords: spreads, outside, French
Views: 520
Comments: 47
French unrest spreads outside Paris Staff and agencies Friday November 4, 2005 A disabled person was badly burned in an attack on a city bus and more than four hundred cars were torched during an eighth night of rioting in Paris suburbs. Government officials cited a falling number of direct clashes with police to claim that the situation was becoming calmer, but the violence also spread out of the capital's immediate vicinity. Reports of unrest surfaced in Rouen in Normandy, Dijon in Burgundy and the Mediterranean port of Marseille. A bus depot was set on fire to the west of Paris in the town of Trappes, near Versailles, destroying 27 buses. An amateur video aired on television showed them all in a row and in flames. Gerard Gaudron, mayor of Aulnay-sous-Bois, one of the worst-hit suburbs, insisted "the peak is now behind us" but in the low-income estates on the edge of Paris the mayhem continued. In Seine-Saint-Denis, the department between central Paris and Charles de Gaulle airport, arson attacks destroyed 187 vehicles and five buildings. Two commuter trains to the airport also came under attack. Further east, riot police were fired on in Neuilly-sur-Marne and a group of 30 to 40 were harassing police near a synagogue in Stains, where a city bus was torched and a school classroom partially burned. "Why a school, why a car? What can you say about such blind violence," one local mayor, Michel Beaumale, said. The unrest started on October 27 when young people of mainly north or black African origin took to the streets over the deaths of two teenagers - Bouna Traore, 15, and Zyed Benna, 17 - who were electrocuted in a power substation where they hid thinking they were being chased by police. Bouna's brother, Siyakah Traore, today called for the rioters to "calm down and stop ransacking everything." "This is not how we are going to have our voices heard," he told RTL radio. Small-scale suburban violence and car torchings are a regular though largely unreported fact of life in troubled Paris suburbs and other French cities where low-income housing estates are marked by unemployment and delinquency. What sets the current unrest apart is its duration, and the way it rapidly ignited beyond the original flash point. Residents in the bleak estates were fed up after eight nights of violence. "I've had enough of this," a woman of African origin in Aulnay-sous-Bois told Reuters. Local politicians complained last night about dithering among national officials after prime minister Dominique de Villepin briefed them about an "action plan for the suburbs" which he aims to present later this month. "Many of us told him this isn't the time for an umpteenth plan," said Jean-Christophe Lagarde, mayor of Drancy. "All we need is one death and I think it will get out of control." The rioting has grown into a broader challenge for the French state. It has laid bare discontent simmering in suburbs that are heavily populated by poor African Muslim immigrants and their French-born children, many trapped by poverty, crime and poor education. France's Muslim population, an estimated 5 million, is Western Europe's largest. Disaffected members claim racism makes the second class citizens.
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#8. To: Diana (#5)
Riots in France, riots in Argentina, interesting events indeed. You ever get the feeling like too many people have been far too docile for far too long in the face of far too many insults, and now we're going to reap the whirlwind of rage that has been building up for so many years? I'm thinking the next few years are going to be notable for their violence.
 | Gold and silver are real money, paper is but a promise. |
#9. To: Elliott Jackalope (#8)
Yes, I feel like we are the new Nazis whether we want to be or not, and the whole world now hates us like the whole world hated Germany (some countries still do).
#10. To: Jethro Tull (#7)
Damn! I could run over to the neighbor's to watch their tv but they are at home for lunch watching Jerry Springer at this time. At night they watch CSI though I try to tell them that watching these programs is like giving the hangman the rope to kill them with. Are you watching CNN or some news channel that has it live?
#11. To: Diana (#10)
BBC has some pictures
"I don’t care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do. The important question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it." - William S. Burroughs
#12. To: Diana (#10)
Oh, there's a video link on that page too, but I can't get to it from work (damned communists)
"I don’t care if people hate my guts; I assume most of them do. The important question is whether they are in a position to do anything about it." - William S. Burroughs
#13. To: Diana (#1)
Maybe the French will wise up and start deporting these people while they still have a country. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CHEAP LABOR. Labor ALWAYS has a cost. You pay it now, or you pay it later. BUt you can't expect to establish a slave or serf class without it rebelling at some point. That's human nature. Je suis Spartacus!!!
#14. To: Dakmar (#11)
Thanks for the link! BBC would be a good source for this. I had no idea any of this was going on, shows how much I've been keeping up with the news...
#15. To: Elliott Jackalope (#8)
I've heard that the riots have spread to Denmark but haven't found any news in the Danish press to confirm this..
#16. To: mehitable (#13)
True, it started out with the Algerians immigrating in the early 60s for jobs, but now most of them are on welfare and have too much time on their hands. I don't know as much about the more recent arrival of the black Africans except that they fight regularly with the Algerians. Plus there are many illegals from all of Africa all over Europe now, it's a big mess, like our situation with the illegals pouring in from south of the border.
BUt you can't expect to establish a slave or serf class without it rebelling at some point. That's human nature.
#17. To: Diana (#14)
Diane if you talk to your family in France ask them if they've heard that riots have spread to Denmark.. I can't find any info on it in the US or Danish press..
#18. To: Zipporah (#15)
I wonder about Amsterdam? There have been a lot of north Africans immigrating there in recent decades, and in the past few years many of them have turned violent. All over Europe the Muslims from these countries have become very radical, and taking on the cause of the Palestinians has become very fashionable among their angry young men.
#19. To: Diana (#16)
I guess Bridget Bardot - of all people - was RIGHT. BOth about Islam and about the foreign invasion of France. I think it was a combination of leftist guilt about wanting to preserve their own country, and about their own colonialist past, along with the desire for cheap labor and people to exploit. If they don't give off their derrieres soon and deport these people or encourage them to leave the country by cutting off ALL benefits to them, they're going to have a permanent underclass fighting them in the heart of their country. I can't imagine that people could be so stupid or naive as to allow this to happen. Of course, we're doing it in this country too, but it's more about cheap labor for corporations than anything else.
#20. To: Zipporah (#17)
I'll ask my mother when I call her back if she knows whether the riots have spread. I wonder if she is still glued to her tv, her phone is in another room but I'll still call her back in a bit. She's not an excitable type but she was shocked at what she was seeing; Jerry Springer should be over in around 6 minutes so I think I'll head to the neighbor's to see if it's on their tv. I doubt FOX would carry it but maybe CNN will have it on.
#21. To: mehitable, Zipporah, Jethro Tull (#19)
France has had some strage and suicidal policies for a long time, and unfortunatly the Algerians have so many children while the French have very few. It's probably too late to do anything about it, and in France they have tried to pretend there is no such thing as race or cultural differences that can't be settled which is delusional. I just tried to call my mother again but now her phone is busy which is odd because normally she goes to bed around this time. I'm going to try again though. I also went to the neighbor's and looked at both CNN and FOX, but either things have calmed down or they are not showing the worst parts. They did say Bush is hated there and FOX mentioned Chavez as being a bad guy (I guess because he has all that oil!).
#22. To: Diana (#21)
Where is your mom, Diana, in France or Argentina? I guess I missed that before. I hope she'll be alright.
#23. To: mehitable (#22)
She's in France but she lives in a small town, so she is safe there. Only French people live in her town and region, most of them older people.
#24. To: Diana (#20)
Thanks.. I'd be interested to see what she has to say..
#25. To: Zipporah (#24)
It's later now but I called her again and got her before she went to bed, she said one of my other brothers had called her after I did. She said she thought the Argentine police were firing bullets into the crowd but it turned out to be tear-gas and the crowd dispersed. I asked her about the rioting in France, and she said last night a total of 520 cars were burned! It's mostly the Algerians doing it all. I forgot to ask her if it spread into other countries but she was about to go to bed so I didn't talk to her long anyway.
#26. To: Tauzero (#0)
Trying to take the drama out of Aulnay’s misfortune, Gerard Gaudron, the center-right Mayor, said that the wreckers were not all voyous (louts), the term that Sarkozy uses to brand the rioters. “Some come out to have fun,” he said. “Instead of playing with their Playstation, they hit the police.” http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-5394695,00.html Before this, those hummus homeys from the projects have been playing with their playstations alright. I never knew that "playstation" is Arabic for "virgins" 2003: The International Herald Tribune | >http://www.iht.com France takes on plague of sexual 'rite' VIGNEUX-SUR-SEINE, France The boys were patient, standing in line and waiting their turn to rape. Their two victims, girls of 13, were patient as well, never crying out, at least that is what the neighbors said, and enduring the violence and abuse not once, but repeatedly over five months. That was three years ago. Late last month, 10 young men, now ranging in age from 18 to 21, were convicted of rape in a closed courtroom in nearby Evry and sentenced to prison terms ranging from three to five years. Seven others will go on trial in November. The fact that they are being brought to justice at all is highly unusual. The phenomenon of gang rape in France has become banal. It occurs - how often is unknown - in the concrete wastelands built as cheap housing for immigrants on the outskirts of France's big cities. Here, according to sociologists and prosecutors, teenage boys, many of them loosely organized into gangs, prey on neighborhood girls. Many of the boys are raised in closed, traditional families and are hopelessly confused or ignorant about sex; others are simply street toughs. In this world, women enjoy little respect; often girls who appear weak, or who wear tight-fitting clothing or go out unaccompanied by their fathers or brothers are considered fair game. To avoid trouble, many girls of the projects have taken to wearing loose-fitting jogging clothes and hidden themselves behind domineering fathers or brothers; others have organized themselves into their own gangs. Many of the Muslim girls have donned head scarves - more for protection than out of religious conviction. In the basement of 4 Place Albert Einstein, in this working-class suburb where the rapes took place, a graffiti message scrawled across a white wall explains why so few cases are prosecuted. "The law of silence is our sixth sense," it reads. "I've heard too many of these stories, and it's become unbearable," said Samira Bellil, 30, a gang-rape victim, whose book, "In Gang-Rape Hell," was a bestseller in France last year. "The word of the boys is often believed. So the trauma is not just the violence but the torment that comes if a girl comes forward and breaks the silence. We have to stop taking sides with the wolves." Bellil was gang-raped at age 14. She had fallen in love and agreed to have sex with her boyfriend. Three of his friends were waiting outside. They kicked and beat her and gang-raped her throughout the night. She waited before reporting the rapes, and did so only after three of her friends told her that they, too, had been raped by one of her attackers. Copyright © 2002 The International Herald Tribune
Elaine Sciolino/NYT NYT
Thursday, October 23, 2003
#27. To: Diana (#23)
In what town or region does she live?
#28. To: mennyiben (#26)
To avoid trouble, many girls of the projects have taken to wearing loose-fitting jogging clothes and hidden themselves behind domineering fathers or brothers; others have organized themselves into their own gangs. Many of the Muslim girls have donned head scarves - more for protection than out of religious conviction. Civilization unraveling before our eyes...thanks for posting this article.
often girls who appear weak, or who wear tight-fitting clothing or go out unaccompanied by their fathers or brothers are considered fair game.
Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war. – Donald Rumsfeld
#29. To: robin (#28)
Ain't multiculturalism grand? On a personal note, my Syrian grandpa immigrated in the early 1900's. His name was Amin Salim and my mother born here, was named Fatima(!). But he wanted to be an American. Now it's different, they want to import Islam and misogyny and the governments don't control immigration and the academia-crats make excuses for their behavior. You can google "gang rape Paris", or Denmark or Australia, etc., it's getting to be worldwide, it's nightmarish. Well I guess it could be worse, in Saudi Arabia, they'd execute the girl for being raped. Here's an excerpt, cbsnews: Samira Bellil wasn't asking for trouble, but trouble came to her. She's the granddaughter of Algerian immigrants and she's written a book about surviving the hell of the Paris ghettos. "I was gang raped by three people I knew, and I couldn't say anything, because in my culture, your family is dishonored if you lose your virginity,” says Bellil. “So I kept quiet, and the rapes continued. The next time, I was pulled off a commuter train and no one lifted a finger to help me. …Everybody turned their head away. They were all looking out the window.” When Bellil's family discovered that she had been raped, they weren't sympathetic. They threw her out onto the streets. But she's since discovered that what happened to her was not the only case. “There was a trial in Lille where a 13-year-old girl was gang raped by 80 men. Sometimes, it’s 80, or 50 or 10. It’s absolutely terrible,” says Bellil. “In the case of Argenteuil, it was horrible. A young woman was raped in a school. Of course, everybody knew, but they're so afraid of these young men that they prefer to close their eyes. That's the price of peace in the ghettos.” When the verdicts came down in this case, the courthouse turned into a madhouse. Eighteen teenagers were convicted of raping a 15-year-old girl over a two-month period. But what really shocked France was how the mothers of those boys reacted. “You call this justice, seven years in prison for some oral sex,” says one mother. “It's the girl who should be behind bars. Aboubacar was one of those convicted, not of raping the girl, but of knowing about it, and doing nothing to stop it. “When you live in a neighborhood that's so dark and tough, you can’t mess with others' business, unless you want to put your life on the line,” says Aboubacar. He received a suspended sentence, and now he's using his rap music to spread the message that violence is wrong. “We were gangsters. If someone was robbing a house, I had to follow the group, otherwise they'd say I wasn't a man,” says Aboubacar. “Men are stronger than women. Men are more respected than women. So if I don't have many brothers, my sister can be attacked. But if I come from a big family, people will lower their eyes when they pass my sister. That's part of the law.” (nations who throw out the law of Ten Commandments are getting the law of sharia instead.)
#30. To: mennyiben (#29)
True enough. “There was a trial in Lille where a 13-year-old girl was gang raped by 80 men. Sometimes, it’s 80, or 50 or 10. It’s absolutely terrible,” says Bellil. “In the case of Argenteuil, it was horrible. A young woman was raped in a school. Of course, everybody knew, but they're so afraid of these young men that they prefer to close their eyes. That's the price of peace in the ghettos.” So a child is tortured, seriously tortured in the most degrading and permanent way, and she receives no help or sympathy. That's not a civilization. It is not a culture to be respected, but rather despised in every way. I only wish America had a moral leg to stand on. But, we are very wobbly after Abu Ghraib. A slightly related subject, I watched a Lifetime made for tv movie last night on human trafficking. It's a fast-growing evil, that makes the most $$ after drugs and illegal weapons. And these children & young women don't often make it out alive. 800,000 annually are crossed over borders, it said at the end of the movie. The Russian Oligarchs are into this new "industry" which can cross over into the porn industry. This website is also mentioned:Well I guess it could be worse, in Saudi Arabia, they'd execute the girl for being raped.
And even this week, the Vice President was in Congress pressuring them to pass legislation to make torture legal.
Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war. – Donald Rumsfeld
#31. To: robin (#30)
Not to mention the pedophilia and torture that is already rampant here. I don't know why they always want to make things "legal" when they are already above the law, maybe it's spellcasting by wizards. Thanks for the links. That's another important subject that most people have no clue about because it's not on CNN or Faux News.
I only wish America had a moral leg to stand on. But, we are very wobbly after Abu Ghraib. And even this week, the Vice President was in Congress pressuring them to pass legislation to make torture legal.
#32. To: Lady X (#27)
About 2 hours by train west of Paris, not too far from Angers.
#33. To: robin (#30)
Why am I not surprised...
The Russian Oligarchs are into this new "industry" which can cross over into the porn industry.
#34. To: Diana (#32)
In the Loire?
#35. To: Lady X (#34)
Yes, close by. I saw on the news tonight that the rioting has spread to other areas including Nantes, that is a little too close for comfort. I'm curious to see what my mother has to say about it all at this point. I don't know why they just don't throw the whole bunch of them in jail. It's a disgrace.
#36. To: Diana (#35)
They should deport them all. End of story.. Furthermore they best not destroy anything of cultural or historical heritage for if they do I shall go there and eject them myself. Vive la France et vive le monde Francophone!
#37. To: Lady X (#36)
There is so much beauty and history in France and at least much of it survived the French Revolution. What happened there has become twisted and distorted in the history books; it was a case very similar to the Russian Revolution where the poor were incited by forces against all France stood for stirring up hatred and envy towards the intelligent, well off and noble families. So many people were killed that it actually changed the demographics of France somewhat. Many families ended up coming to New Orleans and left to go other places as well. What they did to France and the reign of terror that followed was horrid. Just like the early Soviets they killed off the well to do and the intellectuals. I'm very interested in that period and wish there were more objective resources available to learn more about it. There were definite instigators then too, and as they cried "liberty" like we now abuse the word "democracy", blood flowed in the streets. I think they should deport these current upstarts too, round them up and send them back to north Africa.
#38. To: Diana (#37)
Well, if there was a class that deserved a shellacking it was the aristocrats who let the people starve while they feasted. Not justifying the brutality of the Jacobins but the elites of France had no one else to blame except their own greedy selfish impulses.
where the poor were incited by forces against all France stood for stirring up hatred and envy towards the intelligent, well off and noble families
"I want the American people to know that our dreams are gone, our work was in vain. There will be no future for our children and our grandchildren in the new Iraq. The future is for the clerics. This is not the democracy we dreamed of. "--Dr. Raja Kuzai
#39. To: Diana (#37)
I love France and french culture and feel a great affinty for it. I was born in New Orleans..
#40. To: swarthyguy, Lady X (#38)
That's the black and white version we are fed. Louis XV1 was not the brightest king, and when his finance minister resigned and formed alliances against the nobles all hell broke loose and a large percentage of the population was killed; it was way over the top. They even outlawed Christianity, same crap that happened under the Soviets.
Well, if there was a class that deserved a shellacking it was the aristocrats who let the people starve while they feasted.
#41. To: Diana (#21)
HA! The more oil your nation has, the eviler that nation becomes - funny about that.
They did say Bush is hated there and FOX mentioned Chavez as being a bad guy (I guess because he has all that oil!).
#42. To: Diana (#40)
Can you blame them. The priests were total whores for the royals. The country was denuded by the excesses of the aristocracy. Can't blame them for rising up and killing the nobility, such as it was.
They even outlawed Christianity,
"I want the American people to know that our dreams are gone, our work was in vain. There will be no future for our children and our grandchildren in the new Iraq. The future is for the clerics. This is not the democracy we dreamed of. "--Dr. Raja Kuzai
#43. To: swarthyguy (#42)
Besides the excesses too much money was spent on fighting wars. Louis XIV was a good king but XVI was not. Yesterday I was listening to NPR as I was driving and they said it was the anniversary of the Russian Revolution. They talked a bit about it, how too much money was spent by the Czar, inflation went up to 700% in a period of 3 yrs, and people were angry over all the deaths due to WWI. It's kind of similar to what happened in France before the revolution, and like France the Bolsheviks went on a massive killing spree. When these things happen they always go after those with brains and/or money.
#44. To: Diana (#43)
And the reason for that being, that the people with brains didn't use them, the ones who had money hoarded it, and the ones with both allowed the love of money to override their humanity and their rationality, for that matter. One fascinating aspect of the Russian Revolution is that of Lenin, in an armored train carriage with no windows, courtesy of the Kaiser, with military escorts on other carriages, making the journey from Zurich to St. Petersburg, IIRC, to eventually make a triumphant return to Moscow.
go after those with brains and/or money.
"I want the American people to know that our dreams are gone, our work was in vain. There will be no future for our children and our grandchildren in the new Iraq. The future is for the clerics. This is not the democracy we dreamed of. "--Dr. Raja Kuzai
#45. To: swarthyguy (#44)
Yes! I didn't know that until I heard that piece on NPR about the anniversary of the Bolshevik Revolution, they said Lenin was in exile in Switzerland for some years before he came and took power. They said right before Lenin took power there was actually a 5 year period of peace, though I don't know for sure when that could have been since it sounded chaotic during that whole time period. I just got home from an errend and on NPR while I was driving they said it was the anniversary of Kristallnacht, and that almost 1000 synagogues were destroyed (I'd never heard that before) and that is thought to have been the start of the Holocaust. Our NPR out here talks a lot about Nazi related material. One thing about revolutions where they go after people with brains and money, they don't discriminate against good or bad persons, they just want to kill off those who aren't dumb people. I believe they do it to kill off the competition, to reduce chances of a possible revolt against the forces behind the revolutions. They even kill off artists and such when they go on those sprees.
One fascinating aspect of the Russian Revolution is that of Lenin, in an armored train carriage with no windows, courtesy of the Kaiser, with military escorts on other carriages, making the journey from Zurich to St. Petersburg, IIRC, to eventually make a triumphant return to Moscow.
#46. To: swarthyguy, Diana (#44)
I'm reading a library book by Michael Pearson called Lenin's Mistress, covers some of his time in Switzerland, but in the introduction, I was interested to find out that the author first wrote about that train incident in 1975. His book is The Sealed Train: Lenin's Eight Month Journey from Exile to Power. I'm going to look for it next.
#47. To: mennyiben (#46)
The Sealed Train, that's the one.
"I want the American people to know that our dreams are gone, our work was in vain. There will be no future for our children and our grandchildren in the new Iraq. The future is for the clerics. This is not the democracy we dreamed of. "--Dr. Raja Kuzai
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