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Dead Constitution
See other Dead Constitution Articles

Title: Stand Your Ground Laws Legalize Murder
Source: by author
URL Source: [None]
Published: Mar 27, 2012
Author: Stephen Lendman
Post Date: 2012-03-27 03:58:45 by Stephen Lendman
Keywords: None
Views: 349
Comments: 25

Stand Your Ground Laws Legalize Murder

by Stephen Lendman

Across America, institutionalized incidents replicate 17-year old Trayvon Martin's February 26 cold- blooded murder. A Black high-school student, he was shot and killed in predominantly white Sanford, FL.

He was unarmed, carried candy, a can of iced tea, and some cash. He threatened no one.

Neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman killed him in cold blood. He claims self-defense. Critics call it a hate crime. Police tapes show he's obsessed with law and order, suburban life minutia, and Black males, especially hooded youths perhaps.

A 2011-established Neighborhood Watch group appointed him captain. It was set up to help local police. Son of a white father and Latina mother, he's a former altar boy turned killer.

In 2005, he was charged with assaulting a police officer during an altercation over a friend's underage drinking arrest. A first-time offender, he avoided a felony conviction. The same year, his former fiancee accused him of domestic violence. He counter-charged in response. In 2006, the case ended when both injunctions expired.

According to Sanford Police Chief Bill Lee:

"Mr. Zimmerman was not acting outside the legal boundaries of Florida Statute by carrying his weapon when this incident occurred. He was in fact on a personal errand in his vehicle when he observed Mr. Martin in the community and called the Sanford Police Department."

NAACP President Ben Jealous said:

"The reality is that this chief had probable cause to lock up a man who shot a boy in cold blood – because he shot a boy in cold blood – and he failed to do that."

Trayvon's father Tracy said:

NAACP President Ben Jealous For him to be murdered by someone who weighs more than 100 pounds more than him, more than 10 years older than him, this is an outrage."

Others feel the same way and want charges filed. More on that below.

Stand Your Ground Laws: A License to Kill

Florida's Stand Your Ground law allows deadly public force if authorities or individuals fear assailants pose serious threats. The law and others like it in 20 or more states expand the so-called Castle Doctrine.

US Legal.com defines it as follows:

"In criminal law, (it's) an exception to the retreat rule. The retreat rule allows a person the use of deadly force while protecting his/her place of abode, its premises and its inhabitants from attack such as from a trespasser who intends to commit a felony or inflict serious bodily injury or harm."

"This defense justifies such conduct constituting a criminal offense. This is also termed as defense of premises, defense of habitation and dwelling defense."

In fact, Stand Your Ground laws and others like it legitimize vigilante justice.

Institutionalized Violence and Murder

Trayvon Martin's murder replicates numerous past incidents.

On January 1, 2009, Oakland, CA transit officer Johannes Mehserle killed Oscar Grant in cold blood. Unarmed, he threatened no one and didn't resist. Yet he was thrust face-down on the ground, shot in the back, and murdered. Videotape on at least four cameras confirmed it. USA Today said five bystanders taped it.

Justifiably, the entire community erupted. In July 2010, Mehserle was convicted of involuntary manslaughter. Though virtually unprecedented, Grant's family, relatives and friends demanded first- degree murder. His mother Wanda said "Oscar was murdered and the law has not held the officer accountable." Jurors didn't comment.

Police brutality, including murder, is systemic across America. Little is done to constrain it. Rarely are law enforcement officers prosecuted. Evidence shows Blacks and other minorities face harassment, verbal and physical abuse, false arrests, and cold-blooded murder.

In February 1999, New York cops fired 41 shots, struck Amadou Diallo 19 times, and killed him while he stood unarmed in his apartment building vestibule.

In 2006, New York cops murdered Sean Bell in cold blood. Celebrating the eve of his wedding, they fired dozens of times at him as he emerged from a nightclub unarmed and unthreatening. Prosecutions didn't follow.

In February, NYPD cops illegally entered unarmed Ramarley Graham's home. With no search warrant or legitimate probable cause, they shot and killed him in his kitchen.

Similar incidents occur often. Killer cops are absolved. Occasionally, disciplinary reprimands follow.

Although police departments stipulate officers should only use deadly force when their lives or others are threatened, thousands of cases show they use it indiscriminately.

As a result, hundreds of claimed justifiable homicides occur annually. FBI statistics and independent reports document them. At most, police are mildly disciplined.

A 2009 ACLU report titled, "The Persistence of Racial Profiling in the United States" showed racial minorities are systematically victimized without cause in public, when driving, at work, at home, in places of worship, and traveling. Too often it's violently at the hands of authorities.

A "major impediment to (prohibiting it) remains the continued unwillingness or inability of the US government to pass federal legislation (banning the practice) with binding effect on federal, state or local law enforcement."

Nor do authorities comply with provisions of the 1994 Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (ICERD). It obligates all levels of government.

The Justice Department's 2003 Guidance Regarding the Use of Race by Federal Law Enforcement Agencies was designed to prohibit federal officers from engaging in racial profiling. In fact, it's flawed and does little to stop it. It omits "profiling based on religion, religious appearance, or national origin."

Nor does it apply to state and local law enforcement where police brutality is institutionalized. In addition, it specifies no enforcement mechanisms or punishments for violators. As a result, it actually promotes profiling and abuse, including false arrests, beatings and killings.

Candidate Obama promised a "Blueprint for Change," prohibiting and criminalizing racial profiling, mistreatment, police brutality, and related violence. Another promise made, another broken.

On March 23, Law Professor Jonathan Turley called Stand Your Ground, Make My Day, and earlier Castle Doctrine laws abusive and unnecessary, saying:

"These laws address a problem that does not exist. There are ample protections under the common law for individuals to use the privilege of self-defense, including reasonable mistaken self-defense."

"Legislators are now feigning complete shock at the potential for abuse under these laws after refusing to consider the warnings of critics in passing" them.

Florida's law states:

"A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

Turley said it "reads like a stump speech where sound bites become elements of a criminal defense. The result is sound bite justice."

On March 21, Chicago Tribune columnist Clarence Page headlined, "An invitation to murder?" saying:

Trayvon's killing is all too familiar "to those of us who have raised young black males." Any "suspicious looking" Black youth can be killed in "self-defense."

"Prosecutors, gun-control advocates and other critics called it a 'shoot-first' law and, more bluntly, a 'license to kill and go free.' Born in controversy, the law is living down to the low expectation of its critics."

Trayvon's case and hundreds like it show why legalized murder laws demand repealing. More likely, tougher ones will be enacted followed perhaps by greater numbers of killings.

Public Rage Demands Justice

Protest rallies across America demand justice for Trayvon. Over 500,000 signed an online Moveon.org petition, wanting Zimmerman prosecuted.

For what it's worth, political Washington noticed belatedly. Weeks after the killing, Obama's Justice Department said its Civil Rights Division and FBI would investigate. How many previous "investigations," in fact, sanitized what should have brought prosecutions.

Florida's Brevard and Seminole counties announced April 10 grand jury hearings on the case. Expect little more than disciplinary indictments at best.

Florida Governor Rick Scott announced a special prosecutor appointment to "ton(e) down the rhetoric and preserv(e) the integrity of this investigation." It suggests more coverup than justice.

A Final Comment

Trayvon won't be the last Black youth vigilante justice victim. Blame goes well beyond killer cops. America's violent culture shares it. Wars and violence are glorified. The nation's homicide rate is highest among all Western nations. It's gun culture makes buying them simple.

Systemic violence, shootings, and deaths follow. Without addressing the root cause, America's institutionalized racism, and states licensing cops to kill, expect nothing ahead to change.

Stephen Lendman lives in Chicago and can be reached at lendmanstephen@sbcglobal.net.

Also visit his blog site at sjlendman.blogspot.com and listen to cutting-edge discussions with distinguished guests on the Progressive Radio News Hour on the Progressive Radio Network Thursdays at 10AM US Central time and Saturdays and Sundays at noon. All programs are archived for easy listening.

http://www.progressiveradionetwork.com/the-progressive-news-hour/.

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#1. To: Stephen Lendman (#0) (Edited)

At last, something from Lendman that I can agree with.

The "Stand Your Ground" law hardly has anything to do with the Zimmerman case, because Zimmerman wasn't standing and it wasn't on his ground -- he persisted in pursuing Martin around the neighborhood even after the police told him not to.

Geraldo Rivera, with his usual lack of good sense, tried to blame the killing on Martin having his hood up -- totally neglecting the fact that it was raining that night!

But I am not certain that this death was the result of racism. Someone tried mightily to squeeze a racist term out of the recordings of Zimmerman's calls to the police but it sounds totally garbled and indecipherable. A very belated witness says Martin hit Zimmerman -- if true, not necessarily racist or criminal on Martin's part; after all, Zimmerman had been shadowing him for a considerable while and Martin may have thought that Zimmerman was some sort of mugger (or perv).

Shoonra  posted on  2012-03-27   8:12:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Stephen Lendman (#0)

Have you ever considered gathering facts in lieu of hopping on the band wagon?

Police: Trayvon Martin beat man before being shot

With a single punch, Trayvon Martin decked George Zimmerman, the neighborhood watch volunteer who eventually shot to death the unarmed 17-year-old, then climbed on top of Zimmerman and slammed his head into the sidewalk several times, leaving him bloody and battered, according to an account released Monday by authorities.

That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say.

Zimmerman has not spoken publicly about what happened, but that night, Feb. 26, and in later meetings he described and re-enacted for police what he says happened.

Police disclosed to the Orlando Sentinel that there is about a one-minute gap, after Zimmerman called police and before he fatally shot Martin, during which police say they're not sure what happened.

In Zimmerman's version of events, he had stopped following Martin and had turned around and was walking back to his SUV when Martin approached him from behind. The two exchanged words, then Martin punched him in the nose, sending him to the ground, and began beating him.

Then, Zimmerman says, he began yelling for help.

Several witnesses heard those cries, and there has been a dispute about from whom they came: Zimmerman or Martin. Lawyers for Martin's family say it was Martin, but police say their evidence indicates it was Zimmerman. One witness was unequivocal that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.

Zimmerman, who claims self defense, then shot Martin once in the chest from very close range, according to authorities.

When police arrived less than two minutes later, Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose, had a swollen lip and had bloody lacerations to the back of his head. He was given first aid by paramedics but refused to go to the hospital.

New background information on Martin emerged Monday. He had been suspended from Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School three times, most recently for possession of an empty bag with marijuana residue and a "marijuana pipe," according to a school's report obtained by the Miami Herald.

Civil rights leaders and thousands of others have demanded Zimmerman's arrest, calling Martin a victim of racial profiling and Zimmerman a vigilante.

Martin was an unarmed black teenager who had committed no crime, they say, who was gunned down while walking back from a 7-Eleven with nothing more sinister than a package of Skittles and can of Arizona iced tea.

Supporters have held rallies in Sanford, Miami, New York and Tallahassee, calling the case a tragic miscarriage of injustice.

Zimmerman has gone into hiding. A fringe group, the New Black Panthers, have offered a $10,000 reward for his capture.

The Department of Justice last week opened a civil rights investigation into what happened, and Florida Gov. Rick Scott appointed a special prosecutor

www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic ... /c/a/2012/03/26/MN0R1NQC9D.DTL

If Trayvon had not assaulted and battered Zimmerman, he would be alive today.

Another fact is that this case does not even meet ANY standard of "cold blooded murder" but rather a possible case of manslaughter IF the evidence suggests that Zimmerman was not acting in self defense. But, don't let the evidence get in the way of your self righteous lynching.

The stand your ground laws actually protect citizens. Would you write this lynch piece if Zimmerman was a 100 pound woman? No, you wouldn't.

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas  posted on  2012-03-27   9:48:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Stephen Lendman (#0)

Here's an honest liberal blogger's analysis........

The media has already decided that George Zimmerman is guilty of murder, despite the fact that after several weeks he hasn't even been charged with a crime. There is absolutely zero reason to believe that George Zimmerman is guilty of murder. A review of the facts will show that the only charge he might be guilty of is manslaughter.

Since most of us are familiar with the background of the case I'll dive right into it-

(1) George Zimmerman called the police on the non-emergency number to report a suspicious person in his neighborhood (Presumably Trayvon Martin). During the phone call he reported that this person had spotted him and was running away. The police asked him if he was following him and he said he was. The police then advised him that this was unnecessary, he (apparently) aquiesced by saying, "okay."

(2) After that he stayed on the line with police and discussed where they could meet him. Eventually he told them to call him when they got there and he would meet them. From this point we don't have much evidence of what happened next.

(3) A short time later neighbors hear a scuffle outside. A man named "John" looks out and see's Trayvon Martin on top of George Zimmerman punching him in the face. George Zimmerman screams for help and for someone to call the police, (according to John). John, (who is also the sole eyewitness as far as I know), runs to call the police but hears a shot before he can get there and sees Trayvon Martin dead and George Zimmerman standing over him.

(4) When police arrive they find George Zimmerman bleeding from the nose and back of his head, he also has grass stains on his back. Trayvon Martin is dead from a gun shot wound to the chest. Police interview witnesses and take George Zimmerman into custody. They also interview George Zimmerman at the police station without an attorney.

(5) All we know is that a fight occured between two men, and one ended up shot in the chest. George Zimmerman claims that he was attacked as he walked back to his truck, there are no eyewitnesses to how the altercation started. If George Zimmerman started a fight then pulled out a gun once Martin got the upper hand he is guilty of Manslaughter, if Trayvon Martin attacked George first then it is self defense. Either way it is almost impossible for George Zimmerman to be guilty of murder.

Cohen was banned from Huffpo for his HONEST analysis.....fear not, Stephen Lendman, you will be welcome with open arms for hopping on the lynching bandwagon at Huffpo, but not so much here.

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas  posted on  2012-03-27   9:54:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: abraxas (#3)

Somehow Trayvon knocked down Zimmerman and kept punching him ... without spilling his iced tea. Hmmmm.

Shoonra  posted on  2012-03-27   10:33:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Shoonra (#4) (Edited)

Somehow Trayvon knocked down Zimmerman and kept punching him ... without spilling his iced tea.

Did you ever consider that the lid was on? That's how I roll with my ice tea~lid secured.

Trayvon wasn't too bright if he failed to secure the ice tea prior to engaging in assault and battery. Also, there was a witness to the assault and battery......haven't heard a witness bemoan the ice tea other than you. Were you a witness?

Do you think he was drinking Rush Pill Poppin' tea? lol

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas  posted on  2012-03-27   10:44:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Shoonra (#4)

Somehow Trayvon knocked down Zimmerman and kept punching him ... without spilling his iced tea. Hmmmm.

You need to get out more, tea comes in a can (like beer) these days.

“With the exception of Whites, the rule among the peoples of the world, whether residing in their homelands or settled in Western democracies, is ethnocentrism and moral particularism: they stick together and good means what is good for their ethnic group."
-Alex Kurtagic

X-15  posted on  2012-03-27   10:47:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Stephen Lendman, All (#0)

legalized murder laws demand repealing

Stephen Lendman swings.....and MISSES. People have NO duty to run away from criminals, where does that garbage come from?? Tell me and the rest of freedom4um all about your upbringing that drives you to spout that kind of elitist-bullshit.

I'll tell you his: ANY person that comes sniffing around my property has already signed his own death warrant. I will NOT tolerate any criminals that come to me or my property, their life is forfeit if they think they can get a piece of this white man. This right to live and not die at the hands of criminals supersedes ALL man-made laws that would have me groveling for my life before some common criminal. Criminals have the Right To Die. Period.

“With the exception of Whites, the rule among the peoples of the world, whether residing in their homelands or settled in Western democracies, is ethnocentrism and moral particularism: they stick together and good means what is good for their ethnic group."
-Alex Kurtagic

X-15  posted on  2012-03-27   11:00:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Stephen Lendman, All (#0)

Florida's Stand Your Ground law allows deadly public force if authorities or individuals fear assailants pose serious threats. The law and others like it in 20 or more states expand the so-called Castle Doctrine.

revolutionarypolitics.tv: Americans Need to Fight for Their Constitutional Rights (Just Ask British Citizens!) - video on Tony Martin case, 9.25 mins.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-03-27   11:24:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: X-15 (#7) (Edited)

(1) Trayvon was not on Zimmerman's property.

(2) The former (and everywhere else, current) standard for killing in self-defense is "retreat to the wall".

(3) Zimmerman persisted in following Trayvon Martin, even after the police told him to quit, and under the circumstances Trayvon may have thought he was in danger - that Zimmerman was going to mug him or worse.

Shoonra  posted on  2012-03-27   12:26:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: X-15, abraxas, greylmist (#7)

Find the article outlining all the 911 calls Zimm. made. for potholes. radios too loud, garage door open, dog loose. etc. Total socislist busibody type. what a damn fag. then he stalks some teen who probably rightly pounced him. the worst type of person.

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

Artisan  posted on  2012-03-27   13:33:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: abraxas, x-15, christine (#2)

I know this type. Years agoi was at the park & my dog had barey took aa dump & some moron,after Watching, comes up YOUGONNAPICKTHATUP? repeatedly.I said.Who the F are u. the shit police? F you, youd better get away from me.They Start problems.He caused it

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

Artisan  posted on  2012-03-27   13:38:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Shoonra (#9) (Edited)

(2) The former (and everywhere else, current) standard for killing in self-defense is "retreat to the wall".

Fuck off and die in a fire you dirty kikenvermin. That earned you the privilege of being the only person on my bozo list.

“With the exception of Whites, the rule among the peoples of the world, whether residing in their homelands or settled in Western democracies, is ethnocentrism and moral particularism: they stick together and good means what is good for their ethnic group."
-Alex Kurtagic

X-15  posted on  2012-03-27   14:03:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Stephen Lendman (#0)

Stand Your Ground Laws Legalize Murder

There should be a five-dollar mail-in fine for killing any gangbanger.

"You shall have fun, no matter what you do." -- Turtle

Turtle  posted on  2012-03-27   15:27:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Shoonra (#9)

(2) The former (and everywhere else, current) standard for killing in self-defense is "retreat to the wall".

Or in the case of the Jews in WWII, "(2) The former (and everywhere else, current) standard for killing in self-defense is "retreat to the wall OVEN".

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-03-27   15:35:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Stephen Lendman (#0)

Florida's Stand Your Ground law allows deadly public force if authorities or individuals fear assailants pose serious threats. The law and others like it in 20 or more states expand the so-called Castle Doctrine.

But Zimmerman cannot apply the Stand Your Ground Law. He wasn't standing - he was actively pursuiing or shadowing Trayvon, even after the police told him to stop. And he wasn't on his ground - he was shadowing Trayvon for a considerable distance (perhaps more than a block). Zimmerman wasn't defending his turf; he was out looking for trouble. The self-defense laws are not supposed to protect troublemakers. The Stand Your Ground Law has effectively turned the clock back to Dodge City.

Shoonra  posted on  2012-03-27   16:04:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Stephen Lendman (#0)

A Jewish Hispanic has more rights than the man he shot in cold blood. By virtue of what his Daddy was.

Never forget that some animals are more equal than others, and this is the reason why Zimmerman is getting a pass.

"Call Me Ishmael" -Ishmael, A character from the book "Moby Dick" 1851. "Call Me Fishmeal" -Osama Bin Laden, A character created by the CIA, and the world's Hide And Seek Champion 2001-2011. -Tommythemadartist

TommyTheMadArtist  posted on  2012-03-27   16:33:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: X-15, Stephen Lendman (#7)

legalized murder laws demand repealing

Stephen Lendman swings.....and MISSES. People have NO duty to run away from criminals, where does that garbage come from?? Tell me and the rest of freedom4um all about your upbringing that drives you to spout that kind of elitist-bullshit.

I'll tell you his: ANY person that comes sniffing around my property has already signed his own death warrant. I will NOT tolerate any criminals that come to me or my property, their life is forfeit if they think they can get a piece of this white man. This right to live and not die at the hands of criminals supersedes ALL man-made laws that would have me groveling for my life before some common criminal. Criminals have the Right To Die. Period.

C'mon - enough of the soft sell - tell us how you really feel. ;-)

For the record - assuming Zimmerman's account is true then the little punk do'ed himself in.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2012-03-27   16:40:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Shoonra, all (#15)

The Stand Your Ground Law has effectively turned the clock back to Dodge City.

Oh, spare me. How many cases of inappropriate use of the "Stand Your Ground" laws can you point to that are thoroughly documented?

1?

2?

0?

The reality is that there are none, and this is a case being ballyhooed by people who are opposed to gun ownership and defense against criminals under ANY circumstances. You, and your ilk, would rather see innocent people die without defense rather than to send some miscreant thug to his maker.

I am not a fan of vigilante justice as it is naught more than mob rule, BUT someone standing their ground in defense of home and hearth is NOT a vigilante. They are an honest citizen acting in defense against the predatory activities of a THUG. I have no sympathy for what happens to a THUG under those kinds of circumstance. My sympathy lies with the person forced to shoot as no one in their right mind really relishes killing another human being. Most of the self defense shootings I am aware of were under clear circumstance where the person was clearly acting in defense. It is unfortunate that anyone gets killed but I am not going to lay awake nights over the well earned untimely demise of a criminal who died of stupidity.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2012-03-27   16:50:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Artisan, All (#10)

Find the article outlining all the 911 calls Zimm. made. for potholes. radios too loud, garage door open, dog loose. etc. Total socislist busibody type. what a damn fag. then he stalks some teen who probably rightly pounced him. the worst type of person.

revolutionarypolitics.tv: Americans Need to Fight for Their Constitutional Rights (Just Ask British Citizens!) - video on Tony Martin case, 9.25 mins.

Tony Martin
Trayvon Martin

Zimmerman is being cast as America's widescreen version of Britain's Tony Martin but as much more of a villain than him. Whichever side of this issue people are on, I hope they'll rise above the clamor soon to see that the bigger issue beyond crime and racial strife is that this is being used, as usual, to manufacture consent to diminish our Rights and Freedom.

-------

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

GreyLmist  posted on  2012-03-29   6:20:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: GreyLmist (#19)

I hope they'll rise above the clamor soon to see that the bigger issue beyond crime and racial strife is that this is being used, as usual, to manufacture consent to diminish our Rights and Freedom.

Very good...

Stoking the fires of racial hatred brings only more murder and mayhem.

Cynicom  posted on  2012-03-29   8:06:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Artisan (#10)

Zimm. made. for potholes. radios too loud, garage door open, dog loose. etc.

then he stalks some teen who probably rightly pounced him.

No different than most other neighborhood watch volunteers....

Pouncing Trayvon would probably be alive had he not assaulted and battered Zimm.

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas  posted on  2012-03-29   9:56:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Shoonra (#15)

But Zimmerman cannot apply the Stand Your Ground Law. He wasn't standing

he was out looking for trouble.

Evidence states that he was UNDER Martin while Martin was beating him up. Martin was shot at very close range with no indication that he was backing off Zimmerman at all.

That is NO evidence that Zimmerman continued to shadow Trayvon after he was asked to stop.

He was a VOLUNTEER on the neighborhood watch Shoonie. Self defense laws are supposed to protect VOLUNTEERS.

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas  posted on  2012-03-29   10:00:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: abraxas, 4 (#22)

Have the cops ever issued their formal report of this shooting?

Thanks.

And NO, the Castle Doctrine is not a license to murder.

Break the Conventions - Keep the Commandments - G.K.Chesterson

Lod  posted on  2012-03-29   10:05:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Lod (#23)

It's been bits and pieces covered by the press. I'm not sure if the formal report will be released in its entirety while all the people are outraged and making poor ol' white couples abandon their home because they wrongly believe George Zimmerman is hiding out there.

No, the Castle Doctrine is not a license to murder, but it is a directive to defend yourself AND your property.

" If you cannot govern yourself, you will be governed by assholes. " Randge, Poet de Forum, 1/11/11

"Life's tough, and even tougher if you're stupid." --John Wayne

abraxas  posted on  2012-03-29   10:11:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Shoonra (#15)

Zimmerman wasn't defending his turf; he was out looking for trouble.

For someone who likes to tout his J.D., guess you missed the most important part of our justice system, i.e., innocent until proven otherwise.

Phant2000  posted on  2012-03-29   16:26:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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