4um: Why Does The Department Of Homeland Security Need 450 MILLION Hollow Point Bullets?

Somebody out there has decided that the Department of Homeland Security needs a whole lot of ammunition. Recently it was announced that ATK was awarded a contract to provide up to 450 MILLION hollow point bullets to the Department of Homeland Security over the next five years. Is it just me, or does that sound incredibly excessive? What in the world is the DHS going to do with 450 million rounds? What possible event would ever require that much ammunition? If the United States was ever invaded, it would be the job of the U.S. military to defend the country, so that can't be it. So what are all of those bullets for? Who does the Department of Homeland Security plan to be shooting at? According to the U.S. Census, there are only about 311 million people living in the entire country. So why does the Department of Homeland Security need 450 million rounds of ammunition? Either this is an incredible waste or there is something that the Department of Homeland Security is not telling us.

I could understand if the U.S. military was ordering ammunition in this quantity. When you fight wars you can go through ammunition very rapidly.

But the Department of Homeland Security is only supposed to be shooting at people very rarely.

It simply does not make sense that they would need so much ammunition.

The following is an excerpt from the official press release about this deal between ATK and the Department of Homeland Security....

ATK announced that it is being awarded an Indefinite Delivery/Indefinite Quantity (IDIQ) agreement from the Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (DHS, ICE) for .40 caliber ammunition. This contract features a base of 12 months, includes four option years, and will have a maximum volume of 450 million rounds.
ATK was the incumbent and won the contract with its HST bullet, which has proven itself in the field. The special hollow point effectively passes through a variety of barriers and holds its jacket in the toughest conditions. HST is engineered for 100-percent weight retention, limits collateral damage, and avoids over-penetration.
"We are proud to extend our track record as the prime supplier of .40 caliber duty ammunition for DHS, ICE," said Ron Johnson, President of ATK's Security and Sporting group.

But this is not the only kind of ammo that the DHS is placing an order for.

Business Insider is also reporting that the Department of Homeland Security is seeking to buy 175 million rifle ammunition rounds....

We've also learned that the Department has an open bid for a stockpile of rifle ammo. Listed on the federal business opportunities network, they're looking for up to 175 million rounds of .233 caliber ammo to be exact. The 223 is almost exactly the same round used by NATO forces, the 5.56 x 45mm.

This all comes at a time when gun sales are absolutely going through the roof in the United States.

Gun manufacturer Sturm, Ruger & Co. recently announced that it would be suspending new orders until May because it received orders for more than one million guns during the months of January and February.

The following announcement about this suspension of sales comes from their official website....

The Company's Retailer Programs that were offered from January 1, 2012 through February 29, 2012 were very successful and generated significant orders from retailers to independent wholesale distributors for Ruger firearms.
Year-to-date, the independent wholesale distributors placed orders with the Company for more than one million Ruger firearms.
Despite the Company's continuing successful efforts to increase production rates, the incoming order rate exceeds our capacity to rapidly fulfill these orders. Consequently, the Company has temporarily suspended the acceptance of new orders.
The Company expects to resume the normal acceptance of orders by the end of May 2012.

Since Barack Obama first took office, gun sales in America have risen to extraordinary levels.

Overall, more than 10 million guns were sold in the United States during 2011.

And gun sales have continued to rise at a brisk pace in 2012. The following was recently posted on Yahoo News....

The NSSF said that 920,840 instant criminal background checks were made in January alone, a gain of 17.3% over the same month in 2011. This now makes it the 20th consecutive month of increases. While using the number of background checks is a good measurement of sales, it doesn't paint the whole picture as some checks are used for the purchases of multiple firearms. Also, some private transfers and sales from gun shows are exempt, making the actual number of guns sold higher.

According to Gallup, 41 percent of all Americans said that they owned a gun in 2010. But when that question was asked again in 2011, that number had risen to 47 percent.

Clearly, a lot of Americans are feeling the need to arm themselves.

Unfortunately, they may find themselves short on ammunition for those guns considering how much ammo the government is buying up.

So what is causing everyone to buy so many guns?

Well, without a doubt we are likely to see a rise in crime as the U.S. economy continues to crumble. People want to be able to protect themselves and their families when everything falls apart. In fact, we are already starting to see some really violent home invasions in many parts of the nation. Many in the prepper movement are deeply concerned about the direction this country is headed and they want to be prepared for whatever happens.

Of course the rising gang problem in America is a major concern too. According to the FBI there are now 1.4 million gang members living in the United States, and that number has increased by 40 percent since 2009. Many urban communities have essentially been taken over by these gangs, and many of these gangs are definitely not shy about using violence. Average Americans that live in these communities want to be able to have a fighting chance against these gangs.

But that doesn't explain why the DHS needs so much ammunition. Yes, our world is becoming increasingly unstable, but under what conditions does the DHS ever anticipate firing off 450 million rounds?

Something does not add up. If anyone has a possible explanation for why the DHS would need 450 million rounds of ammunition, please post a comment and share your thoughts with us below....

It would be fun to be there when they find his bullet riddled body hanging from a tree. GrandIsland is scum - the very kind of criminal who should never be issued a badge.

I sometimes question whether he is actually a cop or not or if he's just a McCain_Rocks type of poster. If the guy is the real thing then he has a serious mental imbalance. e-type jag, who claims to be an LA cop (or sheriff), says that GrandIsland a fake who just trying to make cops look bad. I think he's either a fake or he's a 'roid ranger (steroids abuser).

Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over and break your window - unknown

Jesus said, "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do. Evangelical Fundinuts say, "kill them all who will not bow down to the Zionist Jew." - F.A. Hayek Fan

"You assist an evil system most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. An evil system never deserves such allegiance. Allegiance to it means partaking of the evil. A good person will resist an evil system with his or her whole soul."

Judging by some of the ~~Cop~~ Pig Thuggery that we see posted daily I see it as entirely possible that he is Pig with a badge. However, e-type fag is no bundle of love and respect either.

Calling Ron Paul an isolationist is like calling your neighbor a hermit because he doesn't come over and break your window - unknown

Jesus said, "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do. Evangelical Fundinuts say, "kill them all who will not bow down to the Zionist Jew." - F.A. Hayek Fan

Steroids don't turn people into idiots. The people who use the "roid rage" excuse after they have been arrested for beating up their wife or girlfriend were aholes to start with and then make that claim so that people who don't know any better might feel sorry for them and want to give them a pass.

Liberty is not a means to a higher political end. It is itself the highest political end. Lord Acton

The human herd stampedes on the fields of facts and the valleys of truth to get to the desert of ignorance. Saman Mohammadi

"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would promise them missionaries for dinner." Mencken

"..if the military is going to defend our freedoms, then we need freedoms to defend. Our freedoms must be restored before the military can defend them..." Lawrence M. Vance

After thinking about it a bit, I came to the possibility that it could just be practice ammo, but then again, why use HP for that?

Well, I've read somewhere that it's always better to practice with the ammo you'll be carrying, rather than a different round since the characteristics and ballistics might be different.

So if you figure the average shooter can easily go through a thousand rounds in a year of practice, perhaps even more, and that for a 1000 agents, that'd be a million rounds.

We can be sure that they have more than a 1000 agents nationwide, so perhaps this isn't so outrageous after all...

Well, it seems to me that DHS is our version of the Einsatzgruppen. They would shoot Joos in the back of the head and dump them into ditches. Check your history and you will find out this is true. ;)

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

‘Gentlemen, if you’ve ever thought about it, the quality of a man’s life is directly proportionate to his commitment to excellence.’ ~Vince Lombardi

hey this is off topic, but remember that story about ghwbush you posted and it claimed he was arrested? i googled his name that week to see if he was in the news and found an article saying he was planned as an honored guest at a immigration ceremony along with a jewish woman. The day after the event, there was not a single story on it, or him. i found that odd that they would announce something like that and not even have a follow up, or photos etc.

"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28

I believe that ammo, if this story is correct, will find its way south of our border. All those guns our INS sent to the drug gangs will need this ammo.

actually that should read all communities have been taken over by these gangs, the members wear uniforms with badges and are commonly referred to as the police.

Best thumbnail I can get on the internet is that DHS has around 20,000 armed agents in all of its services. (Customs & Border, Air Marshalls, etc.) If anyone can get accurate numbers, that would be interesting & useful to know about.

Anywho, 450 million divided by 20,000 gives us 22,500 rounds per armed agent over the five years of the contract or 4500 per year per employee. This means that every armed employee going to the range, say 45 weekends a year, would have enough ammo to shoot 100 rounds per session. One would have to subtract a minuscule number of rounds discharged in service. That's a lot of shooting.

I'll bet that most police officers qualify with less than 200 rounds a year. I'd be interested in what the pro's have to say about these numbers.

A people that would and could throw the bums out in the voting booth never has to. - Prefrontal Vortex

We fired 1,000 rounds a year in two cycles of 500 each, one outside cycle in a staged type setting, and one indoor cycle, strictly at targets, both moving and stationary. We also had access to as many rounds as we wanted, but nobody I knew shot more than that, or took home more than a dozen or so boxes of 50 rounds each. And we used semi wad cutters when training, not hollow points. This DHS number is really off the wall.

Thanks for the information, JT. Very interesting. That helps put some perspective on the situation.

There is something screwy with the magnitude of this contract. Every time you turn around, there is something screwy going on. This administration is doing nothing to reassure me that there isn't some kind of police state assault in the works some time soon.

A people that would and could throw the bums out in the voting booth never has to. - Prefrontal Vortex

That might not be as easy as it was in the Dirty Harry flick when they drove into the armory and walked out with a full truck of munitions.

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

But if those f 'ing lice intend to use the ordnance against American citizens then enhanced creativity and steeled resolve need to be the orders of the day.

‘Gentlemen, if you’ve ever thought about it, the quality of a man’s life is directly proportionate to his commitment to excellence.’ ~Vince Lombardi

"Satan / Cheney in "08"

Just Foreign Policy Iraqi Death Estimator

The people of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage." J.K. Galbraith

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

I've done some thinking on this. Considering the abhorrence for firearms that Holder has, and of course, their intention of bankrupting everyone, not to mention that the government has more 9mm's in service than anything else, this is my theory.

They not only bought 450 million rounds of .40, but bought nearly as many .223 rounds.

Did the government recently get a contract with any manufacturers to make .40 cal weapons? If so, who? What was the purpose? Could they be retiring their stockpile of Beretta service pistols in lieu of a .40 cal pistol? Anyone think about that?

They also are procuring .223 rounds, which of course can be used in the M-4's, M-16's, and all the AR variants that are chambered for 5.56. What version of these rounds were they hoarding?

Now, as much as I'd like to tilt at windmills with everyone else, worrying to death about how bad a hollow point bullet is going to smart, I really can't. Here's why.

Most hollow point bullets are good for about 150 feet, 200 at best out of a .40 cal pistol. If you own a good rifle, you can engage targets at 300 yards with minimal effort. So I don't think it's going to be one of those situations.

Has anyone stopped to think that these purchases might be done, just to jack up the cost of ammunition? If there's a surplus, then the prices go down. If there's a shortage, well...? Anyone notice the price of .223 going through the roof lately? How about 9mm? .308? Everyone needs to think also about the fact that we are all purchasing guns out of fear right now that Obumbski and his Commie Cronies are going to destroy the 2nd Amendment through a contrivance, and our representatives are going to sell us out. People are seeing a major campaign of fear being waged against them, and perhaps this fear has crept into this traitor's administration?

Maybe they're worried that the people are going to get tired of being preyed upon, and are preparing for what is going to happen when the people want their country back.

I'm not concerned, and anyone who has been smart the last 20 years, shouldn't be either. When the first shots happen, it won't be Patriots taking them, it'll be the tyrants, in order to gin up another Waco, or Ruby Ridge. They want a confrontation they can control, and turn into something that it isn't, but it won't happen under Bubbles the Wunderaffe's watch.

No. All of the legislation that has been procured, created and implemented won't be used by the administration that passes it, it'll be the ones who supercede them. Look for Mittens, or Sanscrotor to do something about that pesky constitution.

"Call Me Ishmael" -Ishmael, A character from the book "Moby Dick" 1851. "Call Me Fishmeal" -Osama Bin Laden, A character created by the CIA, and the world's Hide And Seek Champion 2001-2011. -Tommythemadartist

“We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.” - Der Wunderaffe

A people that would and could throw the bums out in the voting booth never has to. - Prefrontal Vortex

Didn't I hear that they want to put badges on all DHS employees and unionize them to boot?

There's your civilian army, running around with Glock 60s. All they lack is numbers, and that can be arranged.

A people that would and could throw the bums out in the voting booth never has to. - Prefrontal Vortex

Yeah, I recall way back in the old days of Chicago, the anarchists bombed the statue of a Chicago cop, the Haymarket Square bombing, as I recall. Don't think anything major came of it.

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall, one by one." Edmund Burke

It looks like DHS isn’t the only ammunition hog in the United States: US Department of Agriculture ["The cartridges shall be delivered to Albuquerque, NM" - hundreds of thousands] and Department of the Interior - U.S. Fish and Wildlife Services ["These requirements seem normal considering the possibility of running into grizzly bears and wolverines"]

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

In case you missed the "declaration" - there's a war in progress against the American people - being operated by YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL GOVERNMENT, and paid for BY YOU !

It's not America's Constitutional Government warring against us. They're fraudulent imposters -- anti- Constitutional outlaws, robbers, counterfeiters, invading agents of a foreign system. I keep trying to tell you that but you'd rather believe them.

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC

If you got mugged, would you say that you support the muggers? Not willingly, I'm sure. Please, stop with that slaver mindset. If all you do is buy a ticket to a movie, or any commerical product or service, you would still be supporting the imposter system indirectly, by your definition, because those enterprises would likely be supporting it to some degree with their income taxes from your purchases. So, even you wouldn't have bypassed it completely but Commerce is not really the definition of our Republic and our government. I know you and others think it is but Commerce doesn't really have the power to void our Constitution, which is this Republic's government, despite the violators of it. The 16th Amendment itself is a violator of it because it was never properly ratified.

There are not currently enough income tax-free jobs here for all to have that option to survive. If there were and there were also alternative currency systems in place and I still chose to work for the imposter system, then you might have a point. What you are doing, though, is denying our right to work and survive without being deemed a slave or an indentured servant until retirement [Edit to add: if we don't want any of our SS payments back] and we have committed no crime to be imprisoned so. There's a difference between being a slave and being mugged. What you are essentially saying is that only children, the retired, the sick and handicapped, those on welfare, illegal aliens, some businesses, churches, foreigner visitors and all others who work under the table -- all who pay zero income tax -- are freer than us but still enslaved to the imposed system, yet they are also our slavers along with the imposter guvs because we who do have to work to survive support them too by our earnings and taxes to some extent, willingly or not.

If you have a solution then give it to us -- free of charge so that the taxman isn't involved. If all you want to do is tax our sense of Patriotism, then how are you different than the so-called "government" you despise except that you aren't spinning trillions out of thin air in the process?

"They're on our left, they're on our right, they're in front of us, they're behind us...they can't get away this time." -- Col. Puller, USMC