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Title: Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recording, 2 experts say
Source:
Orlando Sentinel
URL Source: http://articles.orlandosentinel.com ... easonable-scientific-certainty
Published: Apr 1, 2012
Author: Jeff Weiner
Post Date: 2012-04-01 01:00:01 by farmfriend
Keywords: None
Views: 767
Comments: 54
5:38 p.m. EST, March 31, 2012| By Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinel As the Trayvon Martin controversy splinters into a debate about self-defense, a central question remains: Who was heard crying for help on a 911 call in the moments before the teen was shot? A leading expert in the field of forensic voice identification sought to answer that question by analyzing the recordings for the Orlando Sentinel. His result: It was not George Zimmerman who called for help. Tom Owen, forensic consultant for Owen Forensic Services LLC and chair emeritus for the American Board of Recorded Evidence, used voice identification software to rule out Zimmerman. Another expert contacted by the Sentinel, utilizing different techniques, came to the same conclusion. Zimmerman claims self-defense in the shooting and told police he was the one screaming for help. But these experts say the evidence tells a different story. 'Scientific certainty' On a rainy night in late February, a woman called 911 to report someone crying out for help in her gated Sanford community, Retreat at Twin Lakes. Though several of her neighbors eventually called authorities, she phoned early enough for dispatchers to hear the panicked cries and the gunshot that took Trayvon Martin's life. George Zimmerman, a Neighborhood Watch volunteer, shot Trayvon, an unarmed 17-year-old, during a one-on-one confrontation Feb. 26. Before the shot, one of them can be heard screaming for help. Owen, a court-qualified expert witness and former chief engineer for the New York Public Library's Rodgers and Hammerstein Archives of Recorded Sound, is an authority on biometric voice analysis — a computerized process comparing attributes of voices to determine whether they match. After the Sentinel contacted Owen, he used software called Easy Voice Biometrics to compare Zimmerman's voice to the 911 call screams. "I took all of the screams and put those together, and cut out everything else," Owen says. The software compared that audio to Zimmerman's voice. It returned a 48 percent match. Owen said to reach a positive match with audio of this quality, he'd expect higher than 90 percent. "As a result of that, you can say with reasonable scientific certainty that it's not Zimmerman," Owen says, stressing that he cannot confirm the voice as Trayvon's, because he didn't have a sample of the teen's voice to compare. Forensic voice identification is not a new or novel concept; in fact, a recent U.S. Department of Justice committee report notes that federal interest in the technology "has a history of nearly 70 years." In the post 9-11 world, Owen says, voice identification is "the main biometric tool" used to track international criminals, as well as terrorists. "These people don't leave fingerprints, but they do still need to talk to one another," he says. 'The home run' Though the term "biometric analysis" may sound futuristic, it basically just means using personal characteristics for identification. A fingerprint scanner is an example of a biometric device. Much as the ridges of a human hand produce a fingerprint, each human voice has unique, distinguishable traits, Owen says. "They're all particular to the individual." Another benefit of modern biometric analysis, Owen said, is it doesn't require an "in context" comparison. In other words, Owen didn't need a sample of Zimmerman screaming in order to compare his voice to the call. The technology Owen used to analyze the Zimmerman tape has a wide range of applications, including national security and international policing, he said. A recently as January, Owen used the same technology to identify accused murderer Sheila Davalloo in a 911 call made almost a decade ago. Owen testified that it was Davalloo, accused of stabbing another woman nine times in a condo in Shippan, Conn., who reported the killing to police from a pay phone in November 2002. Davalloo was convicted, according to news reports. Owen says the audio from Zimmerman's call is much better quality than the 911 call in the Davalloo case. Voice identification experts judge the quality based on a signal-to-noise ratio; in other words, comparing the usable audio in a clip to the environmental noises that make a match difficult. And the call on which the screams are heard is better quality than is necessary, Owen says. "In our world, that's the home run," he says. Not all experts rely on biometrics. Ed Primeau, a Michigan-based audio engineer and forensics expert, is not a believer in the technology's use in courtroom settings. He relies instead on audio enhancement and human analysis based on forensic experience. After listening closely to the 911 tape on which the screams are heard, Primeau also has a strong opinion. "I believe that's Trayvon Martin in the background, without a doubt," Primeau says, stressing that the tone of the voice is a giveaway. "That's a young man screaming." Trayvon Martin shooting: It's not George Zimmerman crying for help on 911 recording, 2 experts say
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#1. To: farmfriend, original_intent (#0)
People are acting as if a someones lack of character isnt related to their actions. I wrote last week that this sadistic loon was "a wanne-be cop". Yesterday, news announced he had indeed unsucessfully applied to the academy. This is NOT rocket science.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
I don't think the black kid had a halo either but this thing is being so blown out of proportion on both sides. The fact that Obama just signed a bill to do away with free speech will go unnoticed.
Having sex for money is illegal unless you film it and distribute it.
which bill is that?
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
HR 347 I'll repost on FB. Need to look the bill up. Having sex for money is illegal unless you film it and distribute it.
Oh ok. That one i'm familiar with, just forgot the #. "64 TEA PARTY TRAITORS EVISCERATE 1ST AMENDMENT & SUPPORT TRESPASS BILL". including my buddy mcclintock.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
really? He'll have to hear about that one. Perhaps I'll attend his next townhall. Having sex for money is illegal unless you film it and distribute it.
Hmmm that bill number is not matching what they say it is. that one is about federal buildings. Do you have a better number? sorry that is it. I was reading it wrong. sigh. Having sex for money is illegal unless you film it and distribute it.
yep. The only No votes were Paul, Broun & Amash. At this point ive concluded that Mcclintock is either evil or schitzophrenic. his record is one of literally crazy flip flopping.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
if its 347, thats the trespass bill which was touted as prohibiting any protest or disruption anywhere the secret service are at. the article i referenced has a link to the roll call, etc.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
Americans will believe what the media tells them to believe and they'll swear it's their independent conclusion. In a nation that claims its people are innocent until proven guilty it's somewhat disgusting to see people convicted by the liars in media before an investigation has been completed.
"You assist an evil system most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. An evil system never deserves such allegiance. Allegiance to it means partaking of the evil. A good person will resist an evil system with his or her whole soul." Mahatma Gandhi
the very notion of 'live & let live' is turned on its head when a busibody paranoid troublemaker such as zimmerman is touted as a poor victim who needed to defend himself. He's the epitome of a libertarians worst nitemare.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
People who've known Zimmerman for years say it's his voice. End of discussion.
#2. To: Artisan, original_intent (#1)
#3. To: farmfriend (#2)
#4. To: Artisan (#3)
(Edited)
#5. To: farmfriend (#4)
#6. To: Artisan (#5)
including my buddy mcclintock.
#7. To: Artisan (#5)
(Edited)
#8. To: farmfriend (#6)
#9. To: farmfriend (#7)
#10. To: farmfriend (#0)
#11. To: noone222 (#10)
#12. To: Artisan (#1)
 | To paraphrase Einstein, "Government should be as powerless as possible, but not so powerless that it cannot perform its sole function (the protection of individual rights.)" |
#13. To: Artisan (#8)
I think I can explain that. he has an active vocal tea party group in his district. I personally hit him about his vote to re-authorize the Patriot Act. he admitted that was probably a bad vote and he wouldn't do it again. He also said Newt was a friend. So he sometimes votes establishment but his supporters hit him for it. At this point ive concluded that Mcclintock is either evil or schitzophrenic. his record is one of literally crazy flip flopping.
Having sex for money is illegal unless you film it and distribute it.
#14. To: sourcery (#12)
if some loon tried to confront me when i was walking down the street & demand what i was doing there, id tell him to F off & treat him as a menace, probably just like the teen did in this case. Zimmerman STARTED IT. It was nothing to do with self defense
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
#15. To: Artisan (#14) (Edited)
You have no evidence or knowledge regarding how Zimmerman and Martin interacted with each other. NONE. You are projecting. Zimmerman had the absolute, unchallengeable right to go wherever Martin did--because his rights are equal to Martin's. He had the absolute, unchallengeable right to follow Martin--it's not a crime, nor does it violate Martin's rights, because Martin was not on his own property. Zimmerman had the absolute, unchallengeable right to question Martin--the same right Martin or anyone else would have had to ask anyone any question at any time. It's free speech. Zimmerman had just as much right to do those things as a police officer would have had, since everyone has the same rights, and the police and the government cannot have rights granted by the people unless the people have those rights to grant. Could Zimmerman nevertheless have provoked Martin? Certainly. But there is no evidence. Without evidence, the standard in our system is that the accused is innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. When there is no evidence, the doubt is far, far beyond reasonable. And when you've been knocked to the ground and your assailant is pounding your head against the concrete, your life is in peril. When your life is in peril, you have the right to use deadly force to stop the attack. That's self defense by every standard and legal precedent for thousands of years of civilization. Unless, perhaps, the person you kill is a member of the nobility, or some other "protected" class.
| To paraphrase Einstein, "Government should be as powerless as possible, but not so powerless that it cannot perform its sole function (the protection of individual rights.)" |
#16. To: sourcery (#15)
there's plenty of evidence. tapes, & witnesses. The guy was a busibody kook who shouldlve been normal & minded his own business. Even if there WAS a troublemaking kid about, a normal response would not be to kill him.Normal gun owners DONT behave this way
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
#17. To: Artisan (#16)
there's plenty of evidence. tapes, & witnesses. No, there's not much. But what does exist corroborates Zimmerman's version of events. That's why he wasn't arrested or charged. I challenge you to prove otherwise, using actual video or witness statements.
| To paraphrase Einstein, "Government should be as powerless as possible, but not so powerless that it cannot perform its sole function (the protection of individual rights.)" |
#18. To: sourcery (#15)
In response to your edit. of course if someone is attcking you you can shoot them. The issue here is that zinnernan started the confrontation and the kid was defending himself from a weirdo who was menacing him. Unfortunately, the wrong side lost.
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
#19. To: sourcery (#17)
the fact that zimmermans dad the judge insists that he was innocent proves nothing. today theres a news article with impartial voice analysts conclude that the one crying for help in the tapes was trayvon martin
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
#20. To: Artisan (#18)
You have no evidence that 'Zimmerman started the confrontation.' The fact you make that claim without evidence demonstrates bias on your part. You have no evidence that Zimmerman was 'menacing' anyone. The fact you make that claim without evidence demonstrates bias on your part. Your backing one side against the other "Unfortunately, the wrong side lost" demonstrates bias on your part. There is no wrong or right side. That anyone died is a tragedy. Rooting for Martin to kill Zimmerman is despicable.
| To paraphrase Einstein, "Government should be as powerless as possible, but not so powerless that it cannot perform its sole function (the protection of individual rights.)" |
#21. To: Artisan (#19) (Edited)
Zimmerman's dad is just as irrelevant as are all the other relatives in both families. As for voice identification, I know enough about that technology that I will choose to believe a competent human every time. Zimmerman's friends say it's his voice. That ends that argument beyond any reasonable doubt. New Witness Reportedly Comes Forward In Support Of Zimmerman’s Account in Martin Shooting: FOX 35 in Orlando says that it has spoken to the witness. The witness reportedly said that “The guy on the bottom who had a red sweater on was yelling to me: ‘help, help…and I told him to stop and I was calling 911.” Martin was wearing a hoodie that night and Zimmerman was wearing a red shirt or sweater. A friend of Zimmerman has also come forward to say that Zimmerman looked like a mess after the fight and that he recognized Zimmerman as the voice on the 911 call asking people to help him. An obvious defense case is emerging for a classic self-defense claim. Zimmerman on the 911 tape admits to have shadowed Martin but says it was Martin who was checking him out and moving toward him a threatening fashion. Zimmerman claims that he was attacked when he was returning to his SUV. Police and counsel reported that Zimmerman had cuts on his face and head and appeared to have been in a struggle. Zimmerman was lawfully carrying a handgun was allowed to use the weapon if he was in reasonable fear of serious bodily injury or death. This includes the possible use of the gun in a struggle of control of the weapon. While the case has been treated as racially motivated, the Zimmerman family has strongly denied such a motivation — noting that he is a hispanic with many African-American friends. Frankly, Zimmerman does closely resemble an alternative profile — that of a defendant in “Castle Doctrine” or “Stand Your Ground” cases. In these controversies, we often see people who are obsessed with crime and in some cases inclined to use lethal force. That does not mean that race did not play a role here. However, it is possible that Zimmerman was motivated by his well-documented obsession with crime as opposed to race. While I understand the sensitivity to the race issue and have my own suspicions concerning the role of race, I believe it is premature to label this a racially motivated crime without more evidence of such a motive. None of this means that Zimmerman should not be charged, but rather than there remain murky elements to the case. We simply need to know more about such motivations. In terms of the state law, we also need more information (particularly forensic evidence) to better gauge the chances of a conviction in the case. I still find the fact that Zimmerman was armed and outweighed Martin to be the most significant. However, this case is still in its earliest stage in terms of development of the evidence and witnesses. Among other things, if a charge is brought, such evidence could push prosecutors toward a manslaughter claim with a lower likely sentence than second or first degree murder. Even with manslaughter, the prosecutors would have to establish the element beyond a reasonable doubt, including the claim of self-defense. Of course, the mere fact that Martin may have gotten the better of Zimmerman in dominating fight at one point does not mean that Zimmerman was not the original aggressor. It will depend on the full range of witness testimony and, again, the missing forensic evidence. I was asked last week to sign an online petition demanding the prosecution of Zimmerman. As I have noted, I believe that there is sufficient evidence for an indictment. However, I have never support such public campaigns for indictments. I do not believe in prosecution by plebiscite. Whether there are 100 or 100,000 people demanding an indictment, a prosecutor should not be influenced by such popular outcries. We saw how distortive and corrupting such campaigns can be on prosecutors like Michael Nifong. Prosecutors must based their decisions on the weight of the evidence not the weight of public opinion. Regardless of my views about a possible indictment, I would not want a prosecutor influenced by any petition supporting those views. There is a line between the visceral and the legal and such petitions fall on the wrong side of that line. The facts behind the killing of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Florida continue to slowly emerge. I have previously stated that I view critical facts as murky for a prosecution — even though I believe that there was sufficient evidence to arrest George Zimmerman at the scene. While we have still not seen some of the forensic evidence, a new report indicates that police may have based their initial decisions in part on the statement of a witness. We have been discussing the maddening gap in witness testimony at the critical moment of the confrontation. Now a new report suggests that there may have been a witness to the struggle and that witness reportedly told police that it was Martin who was on top of Zimmerman before the fatal shot was fired.
| To paraphrase Einstein, "Government should be as powerless as possible, but not so powerless that it cannot perform its sole function (the protection of individual rights.)" |
#22. To: sourcery (#20)
No, i am for peace and not starting armed confrontations with strangers who are minding their own business walking down the street. Zimm had no right to demand answers of martin anymore than a cop wouldve. The cops THEMSELVES told zimm NOT to follow him!
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
#23. To: Artisan (#22)
Zimmerman's right to ask questions is absolute, and cannot be challenged. It's the same right you have to post here.
| To paraphrase Einstein, "Government should be as powerless as possible, but not so powerless that it cannot perform its sole function (the protection of individual rights.)" |
#24. To: sourcery (#23)
do you believe that a cop can stop you for no reason, and that you are obligated to spill the beans? You dont have a right to impede or detain strangers.That would be kidnapping & deserves a defensive response.Zimm will be convicted on this one for murder
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
#25. To: Artisan (#22)
i am for peace and not starting armed confrontations with strangers Stop lying. Your words convict you. You strongly approve of Martin starting a violent confrontation with Zimmerman by pushing him to the ground and pounding his head against the concrete. By the same logic you seek to apply against Zimmerman, Martin is in the wrong to have done that instead of retreating. But since he's the guy you're rooting for, you overlook that logical contradiction in your argument. You argue that Zimmerman was wrong to stand his ground and not retreat, but fail to make the same argument with respect to Martin. That's hypocritical. The only fair and just analysis applies exactly the same standards to both men.
| To paraphrase Einstein, "Government should be as powerless as possible, but not so powerless that it cannot perform its sole function (the protection of individual rights.)" |
#26. To: Artisan (#24)
do you believe that a cop can stop you for no reason Yes. And so can anyone else. and that you are obligated to spill the beans? No. You have no obligation to answer. You dont have a right to impede or detain strangers. Yes and no. You have the right to ask questions, but not the right to impede and detain...unless there's probable cause of crime, in which case you have the right to arrest (which you must have, because the power to arrest must be possessed by all citizens in order for the police to rightfully have any such power--the police are not nobles.) We don't know even know whether Zimmerman even asked any questions, let alone attempted to impede or detain. His account of events has the interaction begin with a question to him from Trayvon! It is highly unlikely that a jury would convict. The only reasonable doubt isn't about Zimmerman's innocence, but about Trayvon's.
| To paraphrase Einstein, "Government should be as powerless as possible, but not so powerless that it cannot perform its sole function (the protection of individual rights.)" |
#27. To: sourcery (#26)
Incorrect. His accounts with the interactions he had with trayvon begin when he called the police on him with out his knowing.... and followed him with out anyones consent....and murdered him just to see what it felt like....fuck him...sick fucks like that have no regard for life, they might kill your kid or mine. The behavior is intolerable. Zimmerman needs to be incarcerated or put down... I mean shit the fucker has a past... beat his girl friend, fought cops, and still got off..... must be nice having a Supreme court magistrate as a daddy. . His account of events has the interaction begin with a question to him from Trayvon!
I support the occupation
Fuck it if it kills me. Liberty before death.
#28. To: noone222 (#10)
My feelings exactly. Americans will believe what the media tells them to believe and they'll swear it's their independent conclusion. In a nation that claims its people are innocent until proven guilty it's somewhat disgusting to see people convicted by the liars in media before an investigation has been completed.
#29. To: noone222 (#10)
Reading this thread, one can see that we have people that refuse to believe they are....PROGRAMMED... Americans will believe what the media tells them to believe and they'll swear it's their independent conclusion. In a nation that claims its people are innocent until proven guilty it's somewhat disgusting to see people convicted by the liars in media before an investigation has been completed.
#30. To: sourcery (#15)
And are you asserting this was the case here? There is no evidence of this. And when you've been knocked to the ground and your assailant is pounding your head against the concrete, your life is in peril.
"Satan / Cheney in "08" 
The people of privilege will always risk their complete destruction rather than surrender any material part of their advantage." J.K. Galbraith
#31. To: tom007, Jethro tull, All (#30)
Tom... This from NBC... " “We have launched an internal investigation into the editorial process surrounding this particular story.” Great news right there. As exposed by Fox News and media watchdog site NewsBusters, the “Today” segment took this approach to a key part of the dispatcher call: Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. He looks black. Here’s how the actual conversation went down: Zimmerman: This guy looks like he’s up to no good. Or he’s on drugs or something. It’s raining and he’s just walking around, looking about. Dispatcher: OK, and this guy — is he black, white or Hispanic? Zimmerman: He looks black." Cyni...
#32. To: sourcery (#21)
good article I was asked last week to sign an online petition demanding the prosecution of Zimmerman. As I have noted, I believe that there is sufficient evidence for an indictment. However, I have never support such public campaigns for indictments. I do not believe in prosecution by plebiscite. Whether there are 100 or 100,000 people demanding an indictment, a prosecutor should not be influenced by such popular outcries. We saw how distortive and corrupting such campaigns can be on prosecutors like Michael Nifong. Prosecutors must based their decisions on the weight of the evidence not the weight of public opinion. Regardless of my views about a possible indictment, I would not want a prosecutor influenced by any petition supporting those views. There is a line between the visceral and the legal and such petitions fall on the wrong side of that line.
#33. To: Cynicom, 4 (#31)
Good find Cyni. Typical of the media whores. I like to post stuff from the lying MSM to show how government is running over our rights, or to expose their agenda, but never to buttress Sharpton, Jackson & Obama.
#34. To: Jethro Tull (#33)
Too many of us, for too long have expected the MSM to be honest. NBC has admitted their transgression. Any person listening would have taken it as the gospel. That is just one instance of race baiting, no one knows how many others are doing the same.
#35. To: Cynicom, 4um (#34)
Our White Black President fired the race baiting bullet when he came down on Zimmerman, the White Hispanic. These new racial classifications, btw, should be all one needs to realize that we're being fed horse manure while being told it's shredded wheat.
#36. To: Jethro Tull (#35)
This is where the "experts" come in. They will"guarantee you that just because it smells like horse feathers, that does not mean it is not shredded wheat". I have been a card carrying member of " Certified Cynics" for a very long time. These new racial classifications, btw, should be all one needs to realize that we're being fed horse manure while being told it's shredded wheat.
#37. To: Jethro Tull (#28)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I heard a radio broadcast that alleged "ABC" had doctored the video of Zimmerman to remove the abrasions he was said to have suffered and the police reported ? Is that true ?
"You assist an evil system most effectively by obeying its orders and decrees. An evil system never deserves such allegiance. Allegiance to it means partaking of the evil. A good person will resist an evil system with his or her whole soul."
Mahatma Gandhi
#38. To: Cynicom, all (#31)
nation.foxnews.com/media-...ng-trayvon-martin-segment There it is. Fast forward to 2:40 in the vid. Ir's hannity and, since I made the sacrifice to watch him for 2:39, I hope others appreciate my sacrifice so they dont have to give up 2:39 of their life to watch him.
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Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll
#39. To: noone222, Cynicom, 4 (#37)
I hadn't heard about this before u mentioned it, but fwiw this is what I found. If the fire department treated his head wound, that's an easy one to prove or disprove. www.bob-owens.com/2012/03...y-in-trayvon-martin-case/
#40. To: Cynicom (#29)
you probably don't even know that the police dept sent a narcotics detective to the murder scene,not a homicide one. But since you justify slaughter by "poor victim" grunts regularly, maybe you see Zimmerman as another victim, all he killed was a nigger?
"Even to the death fight for truth, and the LORD your God will battle for you". Sirach 4:28
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