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Title: George Zimmerman: Prelude to a Killing
Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-sho
URL Source: [None]
Published: Apr 25, 2012
Author: Chris Franciscani
Post Date: 2012-04-25 23:38:51 by christine
Keywords: None
Views: 345
Comments: 33

(Reuters) - A pit bull named Big Boi began menacing George and Shellie Zimmerman in the fall of 2009.

The first time the dog ran free and cornered Shellie in their gated community in Sanford, Florida, George called the owner to complain. The second time, Big Boi frightened his mother-in-law's dog. Zimmerman called Seminole County Animal Services and bought pepper spray. The third time he saw the dog on the loose, he called again. An officer came to the house, county records show.

"Don't use pepper spray," he told the Zimmermans, according to a friend. "It'll take two or three seconds to take effect, but a quarter second for the dog to jump you," he said.

"Get a gun."

That November, the Zimmermans completed firearms training at a local lodge and received concealed-weapons gun permits. In early December, another source close to them told Reuters, the couple bought a pair of guns. George picked a Kel-Tec PF-9 9mm handgun, a popular, lightweight weapon.

By June 2011, Zimmerman's attention had shifted from a loose pit bull to a wave of robberies that rattled the community, called the Retreat at Twin Lakes. The homeowners association asked him to launch a neighborhood watch, and Zimmerman would begin to carry the Kel-Tec on his regular, dog-walking patrol - a violation of neighborhood watch guidelines but not a crime.

Few of his closest neighbors knew he carried a gun - until two months ago.

On February 26, George Zimmerman shot and killed unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin in what Zimmerman says was self-defense. The furor that ensued has consumed the country and prompted a re-examination of guns, race and self-defense laws enacted in nearly half the United States.

During the time Zimmerman was in hiding, his detractors defined him as a vigilante who had decided Martin was suspicious merely because he was black. After Zimmerman was finally arrested on a charge of second-degree murder more than six weeks after the shooting, prosecutors portrayed him as a violent and angry man who disregarded authority by pursuing the 17-year-old.

But a more nuanced portrait of Zimmerman has emerged from a Reuters investigation into Zimmerman's past and a series of incidents in the community in the months preceding the Martin shooting.

Based on extensive interviews with relatives, friends, neighbors, schoolmates and co-workers of Zimmerman in two states, law enforcement officials, and reviews of court documents and police reports, the story sheds new light on the man at the center of one of the most controversial homicide cases in America.

The 28-year-old insurance-fraud investigator comes from a deeply Catholic background and was taught in his early years to do right by those less fortunate. He was raised in a racially integrated household and himself has black roots through an Afro-Peruvian great-grandfather - the father of the maternal grandmother who helped raise him.

A criminal justice student who aspired to become a judge, Zimmerman also concerned himself with the safety of his neighbors after a series of break-ins committed by young African-American men.

Though civil rights demonstrators have argued Zimmerman should not have prejudged Martin, one black neighbor of the Zimmermans said recent history should be taken into account.

"Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK?" the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. "There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin."

"MIXED" HOUSEHOLD

George Michael Zimmerman was born in 1983 to Robert and Gladys Zimmerman, the third of four children. Robert Zimmerman Sr. was a U.S. Army veteran who served in Vietnam in 1970, and was stationed at Fort Myer in Arlington, Virginia, in 1975 with Gladys Mesa's brother George. Zimmerman Sr. also served two tours in Korea, and spent the final 10 years of his 22-year military career in the Pentagon, working for the Department of Defense, a family member said.

In his final years in Virginia before retiring to Florida, Robert Zimmerman served as a magistrate in Fairfax County's 19th Judicial District.

Robert and Gladys met in January 1975, when George Mesa brought along his army buddy to his sister's birthday party. She was visiting from Peru, on vacation from her job there as a physical education teacher. Robert was a Baptist, Gladys was Catholic. They soon married, in a Catholic ceremony in Alexandria, and moved to nearby Manassas.

Gladys came to lead a small but growing Catholic Hispanic enclave within the All Saints Catholic Church parish in the late 1970s, where she was involved in the church's outreach programs. Gladys would bring young George along with her on "home visits" to poor families, said a family friend, Teresa Post.

"It was part of their upbringing to know that there are people in need, people more in need than themselves," said Post, a Peruvian immigrant who lived with the Zimmermans for a time.

Post recalls evening prayers before dinner in the ethnically diverse Zimmerman household, which included siblings Robert Jr., Grace, and Dawn. "It wasn't only white or only Hispanic or only black - it was mixed," she said.

Zimmerman's maternal grandmother, Cristina, who had lived with the Zimmermans since 1978, worked as a babysitter for years during Zimmerman's childhood. For several years she cared for two African-American girls who ate their meals at the Zimmerman house and went back and forth to school each day with the Zimmerman children.

"They were part of the household for years, until they were old enough to be on their own," Post said.

Zimmerman served as an altar boy at All Saints from age 7 to 17, church members said.

"He wasn't the type where, you know, 'I'm being forced to do this,' and a dragging-his-feet Catholic," said Sandra Vega, who went to high school with George and his siblings. "He was an altar boy for years, and then worked in the rectory too. He has a really good heart."

George grew up bilingual, and by age 10 he was often called to the Haydon Elementary School principal's office to act as a translator between administrators and immigrant parents. At 14 he became obsessed with becoming a Marine, a relative said, joining the after-school ROTC program at Grace E. Metz Middle School and polishing his boots by night. At 15, he worked three part-time jobs - in a Mexican restaurant, for the rectory, and washing cars - on nights and weekends, to save up for a car.

After graduating from Osbourn High School in 2001, Zimmerman moved to Lake Mary, Florida, a town neighboring Sanford. His parents purchased a retirement home there in 2002, in part to bring Cristina, who suffers from arthritis, to a warmer climate.

YOUNG INSURANCE AGENT

On his own at 18, George got a job at an insurance agency and began to take classes at night to earn a license to sell insurance. He grew friendly with a real estate agent named Lee Ann Benjamin, who shared office space in the building, and later her husband, John Donnelly, a Sanford attorney.

"George impressed me right off the bat as just a real go-getter," Donnelly said. "He was working days and taking all these classes at night, passing all the insurance classes, not just for home insurance, but auto insurance and everything. He wanted to open his own office - and he did."

In 2004, Zimmerman partnered with an African-American friend and opened up an Allstate insurance satellite office, Donnelly said.

Then came 2005, and a series of troubles. Zimmerman's business failed, he was arrested, and he broke off an engagement with a woman who filed a restraining order against him.

That July, Zimmerman was charged with resisting arrest, violence, and battery of an officer after shoving an undercover alcohol-control agent who was arresting an under-age friend of Zimmerman's at a bar. He avoided conviction by agreeing to participate in a pre-trial diversion program that included anger-management classes.

In August, Zimmerman's fiancee at the time, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman reciprocated with his own order on the same grounds, and both orders were granted. The relationship ended.

In 2007 he married Shellie Dean, a licensed cosmetologist, and in 2009 the couple rented a townhouse in the Retreat at Twin Lakes. Zimmerman had bounced from job to job for a couple of years, working at a car dealership and a mortgage company. At times, according to testimony from Shellie at a bond hearing for Zimmerman last week, the couple filed for unemployment benefits.

Zimmerman enrolled in Seminole State College in 2009, and in December 2011 he was permitted to participate in a school graduation ceremony, despite being a course credit shy of his associate's degree in criminal justice. Zimmerman was completing that course credit when the shooting occurred.

On March 22, nearly a month after the shooting and with the controversy by then swirling nationwide, the school issued a press release saying it was taking the "unusual, but necessary" step of withdrawing Zimmerman's enrollment, citing "the safety of our students on campus as well as for Mr. Zimmerman."

A NEIGHBORHOOD IN FEAR

By the summer of 2011, Twin Lakes was experiencing a rash of burglaries and break-ins. Previously a family-friendly, first-time homeowner community, it was devastated by the recession that hit the Florida housing market, and transient renters began to occupy some of the 263 town houses in the complex. Vandalism and occasional drug activity were reported, and home values plunged. One resident who bought his home in 2006 for $250,000 said it was worth $80,000 today.

At least eight burglaries were reported within Twin Lakes in the 14 months prior to the Trayvon Martin shooting, according to the Sanford Police Department. Yet in a series of interviews, Twin Lakes residents said dozens of reports of attempted break-ins and would-be burglars casing homes had created an atmosphere of growing fear in the neighborhood.

In several of the incidents, witnesses identified the suspects to police as young black men. Twin Lakes is about 50 percent white, with an African-American and Hispanic population of about 20 percent each, roughly similar to the surrounding city of Sanford, according to U.S. Census data.

One morning in July 2011, a black teenager walked up to Zimmerman's front porch and stole a bicycle, neighbors told Reuters. A police report was taken, though the bicycle was not recovered.

But it was the August incursion into the home of Olivia Bertalan that really troubled the neighborhood, particularly Zimmerman. Shellie was home most days, taking online courses towards certification as a registered nurse.

On August 3, Bertalan was at home with her infant son while her husband, Michael, was at work. She watched from a downstairs window, she said, as two black men repeatedly rang her doorbell and then entered through a sliding door at the back of the house. She ran upstairs, locked herself inside the boy's bedroom, and called a police dispatcher, whispering frantically.

"I said, 'What am I supposed to do? I hear them coming up the stairs!'" she told Reuters. Bertalan tried to coo her crying child into silence and armed herself with a pair of rusty scissors.

Police arrived just as the burglars - who had been trying to disconnect the couple's television - fled out a back door. Shellie Zimmerman saw a black male teen running through her backyard and reported it to police.

After police left Bertalan, George Zimmerman arrived at the front door in a shirt and tie, she said. He gave her his contact numbers on an index card and invited her to visit his wife if she ever felt unsafe. He returned later and gave her a stronger lock to bolster the sliding door that had been forced open.

"He was so mellow and calm, very helpful and very, very sweet," she said last week. "We didn't really know George at first, but after the break-in we talked to him on a daily basis. People were freaked out. It wasn't just George calling police ... we were calling police at least once a week."

In September, a group of neighbors including Zimmerman approached the homeowners association with their concerns, she said. Zimmerman was asked to head up a new neighborhood watch. He agreed.

"PLEASE CONTACT OUR CAPTAIN"

Police had advised Bertalan to get a dog. She and her husband decided to move out instead, and left two days before the shooting. Zimmerman took the advice.

"He'd already had a mutt that he walked around the neighborhood every night - man, he loved that dog - but after that home invasion he also got a Rottweiler," said Jorge Rodriguez, a friend and neighbor of the Zimmermans.

Around the same time, Zimmerman also gave Rodriguez and his wife, Audria, his contact information, so they could reach him day or night. Rodriguez showed the index card to Reuters. In neat cursive was a list of George and Shellie's home number and cell phones, as well as their emails.

Less than two weeks later, another Twin Lakes home was burglarized, police reports show. Two weeks after that, a home under construction was vandalized.

The Retreat at Twin Lakes e-newsletter for February 2012 noted: "The Sanford PD has announced an increased patrol within our neighborhood ... during peak crime hours.

"If you've been a victim of a crime in the community, after calling police, please contact our captain, George Zimmerman."

EMMANUEL BURGESS - SETTING THE STAGE

On February 2, 2012, Zimmerman placed a call to Sanford police after spotting a young black man he recognized peering into the windows of a neighbor's empty home, according to several friends and neighbors.

"I don't know what he's doing. I don't want to approach him, personally," Zimmerman said in the call, which was recorded. The dispatcher advised him that a patrol car was on the way. By the time police arrived, according to the dispatch report, the suspect had fled.

On February 6, the home of another Twin Lakes resident, Tatiana Demeacis, was burglarized. Two roofers working directly across the street said they saw two African-American men lingering in the yard at the time of the break-in. A new laptop and some gold jewelry were stolen. One of the roofers called police the next day after spotting one of the suspects among a group of male teenagers, three black and one white, on bicycles.

Police found Demeacis's laptop in the backpack of 18-year-old Emmanuel Burgess, police reports show, and charged him with dealing in stolen property. Burgess was the same man Zimmerman had spotted on February 2.

Burgess had committed a series of burglaries on the other side of town in 2008 and 2009, pleaded guilty to several, and spent all of 2010 incarcerated in a juvenile facility, his attorney said. He is now in jail on parole violations.

Three days after Burgess was arrested, Zimmerman's grandmother was hospitalized for an infection, and the following week his father was also admitted for a heart condition. Zimmerman spent a number of those nights on a hospital room couch.

Ten days after his father was hospitalized, Zimmerman noticed another young man in the neighborhood, acting in a way he found familiar, so he made another call to police.

"We've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy," Zimmerman said, as Trayvon Martin returned home from the store.

The last time Zimmerman had called police, to report Burgess, he followed protocol and waited for police to arrive. They were too late, and Burgess got away.

This time, Zimmerman was not so patient, and he disregarded police advice against pursuing Martin.

"These assholes," he muttered in an aside, "they always get away."

After the phone call ended, several minutes passed when the movements of Zimmerman and Martin remain a mystery.

Moments later, Martin lay dead with a bullet in his chest.

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#1. To: Artisan, titorite (#0)

Ping

Three grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, something to love, and something to hope for.

christine  posted on  2012-04-25   23:39:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: christine (#1)

The Reuters story..

I read this earlier....

Christine, I honestly have no idea what people are not seeing in this case.

Zimmerman , a dude with a violent criminal history and a yearning to be a cop...

He followed the kid, he provoked the confrontation, and he killed an unarmed citizen.

Manslaughter in the very least of very leasts...

Murder one or two more like it.

Those screams... it's like watching the 911 vids... to analyse it one must turn off a compassionate part of ones self... to do your best to hear the individual screamed words you have to listen to it over and over..to hear him beg and plead...

I mean who is worse the child begging and pleading for his life...his entrance into manhood would of been snivelling for his life...instead zimmerman who was clearly in control of the situation made a god like choice.... he choose to take a life.

I mean we can say this and that... we can speculate... but in those 911 tapes... trayvon begs for his life for a good 30 seconds.

Zimmerman was in control

What he did with that control was murder.

Manslaughter at least.... I would prefer a murder one charge.... the new DA is going for murder two...

Hopefully they don't fuck this up like they fucked up the casey anthony case.


I support the occupation
Fuck it if it kills me. Liberty before death.

titorite  posted on  2012-04-26   0:17:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: titorite (#2)

deleted

The relationship between morality and liberty is a directly proportional one.

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

—Samuel Adams

America: Israel's Handmaiden

Eric Stratton  posted on  2012-04-26   0:23:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: titorite, christine (#2)

You seem to have already made up your mind and you are presuming a lot of things not in evidence you are imagining what you think happened. It is fine to develop theories regarding what might have happened, but they are not facts.

For one it is disputed that it is Trayvon begging. The tapes have been listened too by experts in voice analysis and they are split as to whether it is Trayvon or Zimmerman.

As well there is at least one, if not more, eyewitness who reported that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman before the shooting. So again we have a contradictory datum.

What we have is an incomplete data set and by no means do we have enough evidence to form a solid conclusion.

And contrary to picture that THE MEDIA has painted of Zimmerman as being a volatile "wannabe" this article seems to provide evidence that, that is not necessarily true but is a media distortion from a media operating off of their own preconceptions and prejudices.

Zimmerman may well have been out of line but that is by no means proved.

It is just as likely, from the available evidence, that we had a volatile black youth, who had been in trouble for committing assault, who picked the wrong man to go off on.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2012-04-26   0:56:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Original_Intent (#4)

I presume nothing man and I dislike the assumption on your part.

Let me ask this... the moment before the gun shot... the audio ... the begging and screamming...

How many times have you listen to that. a dozen? 2 dozen? A black voice... you know what a black voice sounds like yes? Mexicans sound like mexicans... sometimes even being raised in a white family wont take the accent out of a mexican... same could be said for any race... although Martin was raised in a black household.. his voice is all black, zimmermans voice is not black.

It is not disputed who's voice was begging. Too many audio experts already tore through the audio... god bless the internet age.

Seriously google it.

It is proven that the voice doing the begging is not Zimmermans.... that leaves only martin.

Also if your willing please... please look into that Zimmermans past. He has a history... the son of a bitch hit an officer..... How many people do you know could get away with hitting an officer with out getting charged for assault on an officer.... I have done time with fuckers that got charged with assualt on an officer because a cop tripped on their property!!!! Cops are like that... ruthless.

Just like Zimmerman..

Like I said... we can speculate all day.

You and me both..

At the end of the day though you can hear Trayvon beg for his life in the worst possible way... and he does so for about 30 seconds or so.

Zimmerman was in total and absolute control ....

with that control he executed

That is not right.

I dont give a fuck if trayvon is black blue yellow purple or you. Zimmerman is a murdering son of a bitch who has changed his story multiple times now, has a violent criminal past that includes assaulting law enforcement, he had total control of the situation......that kind of control...

The kind of control that can make a weak man grovel and snivel.

It is a hell of a thing.

With that control.. in that moment... Zimmerman executed him.

mind you, that is after provoking the situation....

Unless you consider being black at night probably cause....

I am not unaware of the different mind sets and cultures....

I am just fucking appalled that people can defend zimmerman in anyway considering the amount of evidence against him...but if you're the type to disregard audio evidence.... ...well then you might as well accept everything government tells you about OKC and 911 and waco....

Forensic evidence.... it is all we should ever rely upon...

This case is freaky as a mother fucker because here we have pig cops allowing their friends to murder.... it is bad enough in this nation that pig cops get away with murder... when they can start giving their buddies free passes to murder it is time to take up the gun and kill in cold blood for the sake of liberty.... however unfortunate that is.

In the type of society that allows law enforcement friends murder... well that is tyranny... I been bitching about it for years... it only gets worse as time goes by...

To see so many people take to Zimmermans defense scares the shit outta me. Those that claimed to be awake take a pass on this because ?????????

Christ almighty...... don't say it's because tray was a nigger. George is spic. Who cares who was a spic and who was a nigger?!?! ZIMMERMAN MURDERED MARTIN.

Nothing else matters, the audio confirms it, Ballistics can tell you how far away the shot was, the kid had every right to be there , the kid was justified to defend himself under the stand your ground law....but he only had a bad of skittles... Zimmerman had the gun...

If only Trayvon had honestly been a real thug... he may of had a fighting chance.... but he never had a fighting chance.

Thats called murder.


I support the occupation
Fuck it if it kills me. Liberty before death.

titorite  posted on  2012-04-26   1:53:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: All (#5)

And just in case anyone still does not know Zimmermans daddy is a high ranking judge. Which is why Zimmerman always got out of trouble in the past....

IT IS WHY ZIMMERMAN PRESUMED HIMSELF ABOVE THE LAW.

Judges....when your daddy is a judge sometimes you CAN get away with murder.... in the internet age it is not as easy.


I support the occupation
Fuck it if it kills me. Liberty before death.

titorite  posted on  2012-04-26   1:56:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: titorite (#5)

If you were paying attention you would find that I am one of the more persistent and consistent voices against the racist rants that sometimes appear on 4um. I am also a realist and being opposed to racism does not blind me to attitudes in the black community that seek to justify criminal behavior by blacks "cuz' whitey's got it comin'". Racism cuts both ways.

I was not trying to offend, but I do call a spade a spade. Your tone and tenor were pretty clear that you had reached a firm conclusion and were assuming things not in evidence. You might be right, but we don't know that to be a fact. What I was objecting to was your assumption that certain things were so without sufficient evidence to support the conclusion.

My sole main point is that the issue has polarized people and there are people who are assuming both ways - self defense, or willful murder. I'm not ready to join a Lynch Mob just as I am not ready to exonerate Zimmerman. I'm simply saying that there is not yet enough evidence to conclude one way or the other beyond a reasonable doubt.

Part of the problem is that we have conflicting evidence. There was at least one eyewitness report that put Trayvon on top of Zimmerman beating him into the ground. And then there is the photo showing the back of Zimmerman's head bleeding which was treated by Paramedics. So, the situation is not as clear cut as the "let's lynch Zimmerman" drumbeat is trying to suggest.

All we know for certain is that Zimmerman shot the kid, but we do not know with sufficient clarity under what exact circumstances.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2012-04-26   3:39:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: christine (#0)

Best biography of the Zimmerman family I've seen.

This is going to make it very hard to portray Zimmerman as any kind of racist or a bad guy.

The prosecutor will have to try to portray him as a cop-wannabe.

With an interracial Boy Scout altar boy resume like this one, it'll still be a very hard sell to any jury if Z-man's attorney is competent.

TooConservative  posted on  2012-04-26   5:05:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: TooConservative (#8)

With an interracial Boy Scout altar boy resume like this one, it'll still be a very hard sell to any jury if Z-man's attorney is competent.

It is amazing that the elite picked this guy to try to start a race war with. When the facts get out hopefully people will then see this just as it more than likely was, a clear case of self-defense with race having absolutely nothing to do with it.

Either way there is no way they will get a conviction of murder here with the facts out now, no jury worth a damn would convict him of that.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2012-04-26   7:17:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: christine, Jethro Tull, Phant2000 (#1)

He was raised in a racially integrated household and himself has black roots through an Afro-Peruvian great-grandfather - the father of the maternal grandmother who helped raise him.

Zimmerman is PART BLACK??????

Good heavens.

That does sort of muck up the hanging party that is longed for by some of our friends here at 4um.

Such rabid foaming at the mouth is indeed embarrassing.

Cynicom  posted on  2012-04-26   7:43:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: RickyJ (#9)

It is amazing that the elite picked this guy to try to start a race war with.

Astonishing, isn't it? We can't even get competent racebaiters any more.

I think this all started from idiots on Twitter/Facebook, none of whom knew the actual facts of the case or anything about the Zimmermans.

TooConservative  posted on  2012-04-26   8:30:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Cynicom (#10)

That does sort of muck up the hanging party that is longed for by some of our friends here at 4um.

Ohmigod, these liberal racists are trying to lynch a poor black man!!!! Where is Morris Dees?

TooConservative  posted on  2012-04-26   8:33:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: RickyJ, 4um, *Dopey White Folk* (#9)

Either way there is no way they will get a conviction of murder here with the facts out now, no jury worth a damn would convict him of that.

IMO *THEY* never wanted a conviction. The charge brought against Z is unprovable. A win-win for this bunch will be an acquittal followed by a riot, with a prelude toward far more serious racial conflicts to come.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-04-26   8:55:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Cynicom (#10)

Such rabid foaming at the mouth is indeed embarrassing.

It's a glaring tribute to the conditioned mind.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-04-26   8:57:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Jethro Tull (#13)

A win-win for this bunch will be an acquittal followed by a riot, with a prelude toward far more serious racial conflicts to come.

How is that a win-win?

Just curious.

--------------------------------------------------------
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll

PSUSA2  posted on  2012-04-26   9:04:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: PSUSA2, 4um (#15)

It's a win-win because racial strife will occupy the sheeple as the nation continues to falls apart economically. We're being treated to pure bread and circus with this BS case, which wouldn't be a case if Zimmerman were a few skin shades darker than he is.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-04-26   9:32:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Jethro Tull (#16) (Edited)

OK. So it's a distraction. I can see that possibility. I can also see the MSM using this story to generate better ratings and the resultant ad revenue. Perhaps it's both. They always find something to latch onto.

But what I don't see is how 'they' benefit from a distraction like this. Especially since 'they' face (imo imminent) economic destruction, and it doesn't matter what distractions they use to get people to look the other way. It doesn't fix their problem(s). IMO that is because their problem isn't fixable. Even if they enact the infamous and much-awaited "martial law", I don't see how that will save them.

One thing I haven't seen yet from anyone is the possibility that these msm types are the True Believers in their own bullshit. Racists = evil incarnate and lying is a legit tactic in forcing their liberal / white guilt beliefs onto others.

IMO it's a mindset or a worldview, not a conspiracy.

--------------------------------------------------------
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll

PSUSA2  posted on  2012-04-26   10:43:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: PSUSA2 (#17)

One thing I haven't seen yet from anyone is the possibility that these msm types are the True Believers in their own bullshit. Racists = evil incarnate and lying is a legit tactic in forcing their liberal / white guilt beliefs onto others.

hammer meet nail

Three grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, something to love, and something to hope for.

christine  posted on  2012-04-26   10:54:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: PSUSA2, Cynicom, 4um (#17)

It doesn't fix their problem(s). IMO that is because their problem isn't fixable

Well, true things aren't fixable because "we" aren't fixated. "We" have a case of national ADD thanks to the media propagenda that rolls at us 24x7x365. In this particular case the closest the Trayvon evangelists have been to an actual crime scene are the inky pages of one of our nations many fish wraps disguised as newspapers. Or perhaps they've garnered their “facts” from the Progressives over at MSNBC. At any rate as this case continues to play out I suspect additional media and personal tantrums based on the buying into imaginary facts coupled with personal biases. The squeal of “it’s not a racial matter” was lost a month ago when our dog eating president proclaimed that Trayvon was “his son” followed by the oh so familiar bellowing of Sharpton and Jackson. I'm soooo happy I got to know their MO in NYC years ago. And how delightful is it now that Zimmerman is himself Black? (to be part Black is to be Black, or so we've been taught). I understand that a search of the NY Times archives reveals that the term they used to describe Zimmerman, a “White Hispanic” has been used only five time previously in the history of the paper. With this new Black addition to Z’s genealogy will he now be described as a “Black White Hispanic”? Such is the complete absurdity that some are falling for.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-04-26   10:55:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Jethro Tull (#19)

Yep. Nothing to add to that. Absurdity is the best description I've seen so far.

How is it that we don't have that ADD, at least to the extent that the sheep have it? It has nothing to do with intelligence or experience since there are smart and experienced people on both sides. One of lifes little mysteries. Maybe we're just born wolves.

--------------------------------------------------------
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll

PSUSA2  posted on  2012-04-26   11:25:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: noone222, Jethro Tull, Christine, Phant 2000 (#19)

I understand that a search of the NY Times archives reveals that the term they used to describe Zimmerman, a “White Hispanic” has been used only five time previously in the history of the paper. With this new Black addition to Z’s genealogy will he now be described as a “Black White Hispanic”? Such is the complete absurdity that some are falling for.

They dare not drop the "white label".

Obongo is HALF WHITE and is considered to be black. Zimmerman is Hispanic and black and is considered WHITE????????????

This sure does complicate matters for race whores.

OF COURSE, WE COULD ALWAYS SAY IT WAS THE BLACK PART OF ZIMMERMAN THAT DID THE KILLING?????

Cynicom  posted on  2012-04-26   11:48:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: christine (#18) (Edited)

If politicians, businessmen / women, and clergy along with their converts do it, along with Joe Sixpack/Susie Homemaker and their kids, why not the press. But I can see how easy it is to blame some "Illuminati" (or the devil lol) for this. It sure beats looking in a mirror.

These lies are all for the betterment of humanity, of course.

--------------------------------------------------------
Somebody ought to tell the truth about the Bible. The preachers dare not, because they would be driven from their pulpits. Professors in colleges dare not, because they would lose their salaries. Politicians dare not. They would be defeated. Editors dare not. They would lose subscribers. Merchants dare not, because they might lose customers. Men of fashion dare not, fearing that they would lose caste. Even clerks dare not, because they might be discharged. And so I thought I would do it myself... Robert Ingersoll

PSUSA2  posted on  2012-04-26   11:59:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Cynicom. 4um (#21)

This sure does complicate matters for race whores.

Great, isn't it? As I said from the start, take race out of the equation and this is a non story.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-04-26   12:00:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Jethro Tull (#23)

Jackasson and Sharpie are going to find it difficult to hang a "brother".

Cynicom  posted on  2012-04-26   12:04:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: PSUSA2 (#20)

How is it that we don't have that ADD

Great question and I'm thinking we've all had a moment where the "light went on." I'd guess we are far more curious than 90% of the nation, and once we understood that our history was mostly a fabrication, there was no turning back.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-04-26   12:05:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Cynicom (#24)

They done swallowed a chicken bone with Zimmerman.

Jethro Tull  posted on  2012-04-26   12:06:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Cynicom, christine, Jethro Tull, Phant2000 (#10)

That does sort of muck up the hanging party that is longed for by some of our friends here at 4um.

You nailed that. As I as well pointed out there seems to be a lynch mob mentality operating among the "pooooooooooo innocent Trayvon™" frothers. They assume all sorts of imaginings to be true and then assert their assumptions as facts.

The one fact that is clear is that there is not enough evidence in the existing accounts to either convict or exonerate Zimmerman, and it is just as possible that an overly aggressive black teen made the mistake of attacking an armed man and after he was able to separate himself from his attacker shot him in self defense before he could attack again. Of course the evidence does not necessarily support that last but it is just as well supported as the assumptions of the lynch mob who don't need no steenking trial afore they hang that killer Zimmerman.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2012-04-27   0:55:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Cynicom (#24)

Jackasson and Sharpie are going to find it difficult to hang a "brother".

Have you noticed how the race card is being quickly shuffled back into the deck?

Since it is now clear that Zimmerman, despite his last name, is not some "lily white" Crackah the race baiting poverty pimps are all of sudden trying to slink back into the shadows and the meeduhia is busy trying to avoid the subject of Zimmerman's race.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2012-04-27   1:02:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Original_Intent (#7) (Edited)

My sole main point is that the issue has polarized people and there are people who are assuming both ways - self defense, or willful murder. I'm not ready to join a Lynch Mob just as I am not ready to exonerate Zimmerman. I'm simply saying that there is not yet enough evidence to conclude one way or the other beyond a reasonable doubt.

Totally fair and just and proper... And that is what the courts are for.

Clearly their was evidence everyway from sunday. When Zimmerman was not being charged but allowed to remain free, it was a problem... a big problem. Now he has been charged and the system is sorting it out. That is what the system is for right? Granted sometimes we get OJs and Casey Anthonys...but at least the fucker got dully charged as he should of been from day one.

As for me and my convictions...yeah I have them based on the evidence made available to me and the rest of the public. I have a firm opinion but it is subject to change with the introduction of new evidence... all the same it will always remain just my opinion because the jury of his peers will have to pass real judgement on him.

Still... guilty or innocent before god, he made his worst possible mistake at that bond hearing no? I can't believe the judge even let him take the stand for whatever reason. I have been to my share of bond hearings... normally the judge doesn't want to hear shit about the case and damn sure nobody is getting on that stand.... got people to process and limited time to do it....Zimmerman took the stand... apologised for what he had done...and then THEN the fatal words he should of never said by any lawyers short hairs...."I did not know if he was armed or not" ...man if I was his lawyer I would of quit on him right there. UNless I did not care about taking a loss on my record.

I feel where you're coming from OI.... It is a kinda polerizing issue... especially for those of us with extended experience with the police. Whether we like it or not the con segment of the population has lots of experience with the system... We know what it does and how it acts. Here it acted in aberration. Once you look into Zimmerman and who he is and who his family is things start to make sense.... save for the fact that cops are now extending cop like power to their buddies. That is brand new.

Things were already bad enough in this nation with cops being outta control...now it is obvious they feel comfortable extending that BS mentality to their buddies...(And I don't mean the murder per se but his past crimes for sure.) I have been saying that this nation doesn't have five years left before revolution for awhile now... about 2 years now... 3 years left..... it wont be about race...it will be about shit like the circumstances of this...

Imagine... a kid walks into a place, gets shot dead, nobody is charged with anything because their brother is the sheriff or their daddy is a judge.

When a society does not uphold justice it will not know peace.


I support the occupation
Fuck it if it kills me. Liberty before death.

titorite  posted on  2012-04-27   2:17:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: titorite (#29)

I think mostly we're on the same page, and while I am no fan of out of control criminal so-called Law Enforcement Officers (where they used to be Peace Officers - which is a completely different mindset) I don't want to let my contempt for thugs with badges draw me down a path I don't want to follow.

In analyzing this situation one of the problems is that we have contradictory data. On one hand we have credible people saying that the voice calling for help is Trayvon's and other credible people saying that it was Zimmerman.

We have Zimmerman being told by 911 to back off and yet a couple of minutes later we have a shooting, but we do not know clearly what transpired in between. Although as I mentioned above there is at least one witness that supports Zimmerman's statement that it was Trayvon who initiated the physical conflict.

If Zimmerman's gun was holstered, and Trayvon didn't know he was attacking an armed man, that is an entirely plausible scenario, but truth is we don't know.

We have more information on Zimmerman's background now and by all accounts he was far from the "White Ray-Ciss" that the media circus tried to initially portray. Turns out he was an altar boy, was mentoring a couple of black kids, was part black himself, and grew up in a mixed race household. Not the profile of your typical Klansman.

Still... guilty or innocent before god, he made his worst possible mistake at that bond hearing no? I can't believe the judge even let him take the stand for whatever reason. I have been to my share of bond hearings... normally the judge doesn't want to hear shit about the case and damn sure nobody is getting on that stand.... got people to process and limited time to do it....Zimmerman took the stand... apologised for what he had done...and then THEN the fatal words he should of never said by any lawyers short hairs...."I did not know if he was armed or not" ...man if I was his lawyer I would of quit on him right there. UNless I did not care about taking a loss on my record.

Given his background I would suspect that Zimmerman is guilt stricken and filled with remorse over what happened - that is what his comments suggest to me. And it is not uncommon, even when justified, for a normal person to feel guilt and grief in having killed someone. So, I'm waiting. What I fear is that what we'll get is an attempt to railroad the guy whether he is guilty of cold blooded murder or not and that will leave the case forever in limbo.

Perseverent Gardener
"“Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings - that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.” ~ Gautama Siddhartha — The Buddha

Original_Intent  posted on  2012-04-27   3:15:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: titorite (#29)

When Zimmerman was not being charged but allowed to remain free, it was a problem... a big problem. Now he has been charged and the system is sorting it out. That is what the system is for right?

No. This system is not for charging people with a lack of evidence that they committed a crime, that is not what the system is for. He wasn't charged initially because their was no evidence a crime was committed. All the evidence pointed to self-defense. Only after the race baiters started marching and shouting "justice for Trayvon" and the president said Trayvon would look like a son of his if he had one, did the charges come forth. This was all purely media driven from the start with the one goal in mind to stir up the racial bigots in the black community against whites. They knew it would be easy because they know most blacks are racists, and unfortunately, dumb.

God is always good!

RickyJ  posted on  2012-04-27   3:21:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Original_Intent (#28)

Have you noticed how the race card is being quickly shuffled back into the deck?

Yes indeed...

And Brother Obama has had zero to add in fanning racial strife.

Bad situation here for the race whores, we have a white, hispanic black.

Now that is a new one. All they can see is the white part and want to hang the man without a trial.

Obongo Obama is HALF WHITE BUT HE IS A BLACK BROTHA?????????????

Zimmerman is brown and black and is A WHITE MAD RACIST KILLER????

Would Colin Powell be a white or black man?????

Cynicom  posted on  2012-04-27   3:44:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Original_Intent (#4) (Edited)

It is just as likely, from the available evidence, that we had a volatile black youth, who had been in trouble for committing assault, who picked the wrong man to go off on.

Why is it that people will choose to bring up Travyon's volatile history yet, when referring to Zimmerman's is not the issue? I'm looking forward to this matter going to trial.

purplerose  posted on  2012-04-27   10:10:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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